The fully functional D800 AF thread - drop a line!

[Pradipta Dutta]

TOF guy wrote:

Pradipta wrote:

Since you have heard complaints from a very small number, it is proof enough to show that a large percentage of the cameras are operating fine.

That proves nothing. And what do you mean by "a large percentage?"

What it proves is that a large percentage of the owners are perfectly ok with their usage of the camera.

That still proves nothing - one way or the other - because only a very small fraction of these owners ever peruse the Nikon Fx dpreview forum, much less write posts.

Not correct.

It is a human tendency that when they face a problem, they post all over the place (in the current internet era). DP Review being one of the biggest digital photography forums would have seen many-many more negativism had there been such a mass problem.

The only thing we know from this forum is that among the members who are posting regularly here and bought the D800 during its first months of production a significant fraction reported a problem with the left most AF sensor.

You just need to extrapolate the lack of mass complaints. What we have seen is consistent complaints from a select few. That is clearly not significant.

 

[Pradipta Dutta]

TOF guy wrote:

Pradipta wrote:
That is not entirely accurate. It is a common knowledge that most people who have a perfectly working body won't post at forums.

Quite the contrary Nikon owners without any issue with their cameras (you for instance) are very vocal about it.

How many times have I written that my camera works fine? Can you point me to one single post?

On the contrary, I actually don't remember having acknowledged that my D800 does not have any problem. That itself is a very good example that those with perfectly working camera are not openly posting that their camera is working.

 

[JacquesC]

... consistent back-focussing of all my lenses (easily fixed with AF fine-tune) and the green LCD tint the D800 works just fine

 

[stany buyle]

Better/faster than my D3 and D3s.

But...

it's a pity that Nikon QC is simply poor which resulted in many complains from people who were unlucky getting a camera that needs yaw and pitch alignment or reprogramming of AF sensor values. Especially in the period after the D800 launch QC was a disaster or, -TMHO- even non existing.

Kindest regards.
Stany Buyle
www.nikonuser.info/fotoforum

 

[Alejandro Daz del Ro Fery]

Thanks Nikon, Sony, Nikkor, HP, Sandisk ... et cetera, many thanks to all of you.

 

[olyflyer]

...if Nikon would ever i introduce sensor shaking IS (IBIS) then I will sell everything and move to another brand. IBIS was one reason for me to leave Olympus, I want a fixed sensor.

 

[olyflyer]

Pradipta wrote:
That is not entirely accurate. It is a common knowledge that most people who have a perfectly working body won't post at forums.

Quite the contrary Nikon owners without any issue with their cameras (you for instance) are very vocal about it.

 

[olyflyer]

olyflyer wrote:

Marianne Oelund wrote: My D800E focuses consistently across all AF points - consistently back-focusing, that is. My D7000 was the same when new, and I sent it to Nikon for service. It came back just fine, but I still haven't worked up the courage to send my D800E to them.

...and why on earth would you even consider twice what to do? Isn't that part of what you paid for? I mean warranty is warranty, and if your camera is so consistently back focusing then what is there to consider? It must be no match for you to proof that to Nikon, just send them a short mail on how you tested and include a few test images. Or...?

. . . and if it were, your response would be amongst the last that I would consider.

 

[marike6]

I'm not having any AF issues at all with my D800. It has the same accurate AF with the left outermost AF points as it does with the right outermost AF points. No differences at all at 100%. With all the paranoia surrounding this wonderful camera, I've tested it locked down shooting a test target two times. And I'm delighted with the results (but not surprised), and glad to report that it's fine.

In fact I'm so happy with my D800's AF performance, I'm considering sending it to Nikon anyway as I'm feeling a little left out.

Cheers and all the best, Markus

 

[GroWeb]

Pradipta Dutta wrote:

TOF guy wrote:

Pradipta wrote:

Since you have heard complaints from a very small number, it is proof enough to show that a large percentage of the cameras are operating fine.

That proves nothing. And what do you mean by "a large percentage?"

What it proves is that a large percentage of the owners are perfectly ok with their usage of the camera.

That still proves nothing - one way or the other - because only a very small fraction of these owners ever peruse the Nikon Fx dpreview forum, much less write posts.

Not correct.

It is a human tendency that when they face a problem, they post all over the place (in the current internet era). DP Review being one of the biggest digital photography forums would have seen many-many more negativism had there been such a mass problem.

Where is this "tendency" documented in sociological, anthropological, or psychological literature? This "tendency" is a myth perpetuated on the internet on the basis of anecdotal and biased observation, and it is invariably used to bolster an argument intended to downplay a possible issue. In my own, undoubtedly biased observation, I have noticed that the advent of a new camera model generally brings out a flood of very positive expressions of people's experience when they first put the camera to use. How does this jive with the undocumented "tendency" towards complaining that you are referring to?

The only thing we know from this forum is that among the members who are posting regularly here and bought the D800 during its first months of production a significant fraction reported a problem with the left most AF sensor.

You just need to extrapolate the lack of mass complaints. What we have seen is consistent complaints from a select few. That is clearly not significant.

Extrapolation is a notoriously unreliable practice, which needs to be done with extreme caution if it is done at all. You have been doing a whole lot of reckless extrapolation (and interpolation) with your use of such terms as "very small number" (based on what sampling procedure?) and "large percentage." "Significance" is a statistical term that has a formula for measuring it on the basis of sample size. To what set of data have you applied that formula in coming to your determination about what is or is not significant? It appears to me that you are using a bunch of scientific language very loosely to support an entirely unscientific argument.

By contrast, Thom Hogan has a relatively much more reliable sampling methodology with a broader data source; he has openly named the biases involved in his process; and he has published conservative estimates of the prevalence of the AF problem that are distressing. By comparison your arguments lack substance.

I can understand that you are disturbed by the few people who have been posting repeatedly about the AF problems, sometimes with an explicit purpose of making a lot of unpleasant noise. I don't like that any more than you do. But I do not believe that your hurt emotions constitute a valid reason to perpetuate the unpleasantness by posting unscientific arguments -- dressed up to look scientific -- that are similarly disturbing to those of us who are having to deal with Nikon repeatedly over these AF functionality problems in our brand new cameras.

 

[GroWeb]

olyflyer wrote:

Pradipta wrote:
That is not entirely accurate. It is a common knowledge that most people who have a perfectly working body won't post at forums.

Quite the contrary Nikon owners without any issue with their cameras (you for instance) are very vocal about it.

 

[casus]

olyflyer wrote:

TOF guy wrote:

Pradipta wrote:

.

The Sendai plant of Nikon has been producing at the rate of about 30,000 D800/D800E bodies since over a year ago (click here for the CNET story).

12 x 30,000 = 360,000 not 3,600,000.

How many times does he have to admit a simple mistake?

Actually, this is not a "simple" mistake. "Capable of producing" and "has potential of producing" are not equivalent to "is producing". Has anyone read the article?

 

[abcdefghijklmnop]

marike6 wrote:

I'm not having any AF issues at all with my D800. It has the same accurate AF with the left outermost AF points as it does with the right outermost AF points. No differences at all at 100%. With all the paranoia surrounding this wonderful camera, I've tested it locked down shooting a test target two times. And I'm delighted with the results (but not surprised), and glad to report that it's fine.

In fact I'm so happy with my D800's AF performance, I'm considering sending it to Nikon anyway as I'm feeling a little left out.

Cheers and all the best, Markus

I understand the feeling of being left out. I bought a second D800 and even when doubling my changes of being able to send one to Nikon for repair, I missed out. I will just take my two D800 bodies and take photos since I can not play the blame game. Sad!!

 

[Testing123]

shaunly wrote:

Ever since mine came back from Nikon last year, the AF has been absolutely perfect! I'm not even exaggerating.

Hi Sharunly,

Did you send it to the El Segundo facility?

Thanks...

 

[TFergus]

Pradipta Dutta wrote:

Marianne Oelund wrote:

Pradipta Dutta wrote:

Since you have heard complaints from a very small number, it is proof enough to show that a large percentage of the cameras are operating fine.

That proves nothing. And what do you mean by "a large percentage?"

What it proves is that a large percentage of the owners are perfectly ok with their usage of the camera.

All that states, if true, is a large percentage of people are ok with their cameras. A more interesting stat would be the percentage of people that have no idea that their camera has a left focus issue.

 

[michaeladawson]

Leo360 wrote:

michaeladawson wrote:

Leo360 wrote:

Pradipta Dutta wrote:

henrikbengtsson wrote:

It seems to me that many users are complaining about the Left AF issue on the D800 series. But then again only people with real issues seem to be active on the internet - making it a bit hard to jump to conclusions. I am fully aware of the problem but I thought maybe instead of all the whining it might be fun to hear, "my D800 is allright" (there should be plenty plenty) and whenever someone complains about Nikon (real problem or not), there's always this thread for some perspective.

So drop a line, a "+1" or whatever if your D800 AF is 100%.

The Sendai plant of Nikon has been producing at the rate of about 30,000 D800/D800E bodies since over a year ago (click here for the CNET story).

Even if you consider just 12 months of production (in reality, it would be longer as Nikon typically starts manufacturing bodies well before its actual launch), that would make it about 3.6 million bodies by now.

"Just do the math", as you said. 30,000 x 12 = 360,000 which is 10 times less than 3.6 million bodies you found.

Leo

I shouldn't even say anything. But I must

This is one of those incorrect usages of language that bug me. You cannot have 10 times less. You can have one tenth of something. But not 10 times less. Unfortunately, the misuse is understood by most people so the misuse is accepted.

Yeah, I know, get a life

 

[John M Roberts]

olyflyer wrote:

...if Nikon would ever i introduce sensor shaking IS (IBIS) then I will sell everything and move to another brand. IBIS was one reason for me to leave Olympus, I want a fixed sensor.

What are were the pitfalls with IBIS that made you leave?

 

[Pradipta Dutta]

GroWeb wrote:

Pradipta Dutta wrote:

It is a human tendency that when they face a problem, they post all over the place (in the current internet era). DP Review being one of the biggest digital photography forums would have seen many-many more negativism had there been such a mass problem.

Where is this "tendency" documented in sociological, anthropological, or psychological literature? This "tendency" is a myth perpetuated on the internet on the basis of anecdotal and biased observation, and it is invariably used to bolster an argument intended to downplay a possible issue.

If you don't believe that to be true, you are just fooling yourself.

Your posts indicate that your goal is to prove there is a huge problem with all/most D800 bodies. Truly speaking, I don't care. The OP had asked a question about what the current state is for the camera. That is what I had responded to asking the OP to make his/her own judgement call. But that made some people get their panties in a bunch.

I absolutely sympathize people who are still carrying a flawed D800 and certainly believe that they do have problems with their bodies (unlike Leonard, I never challenged anyone thultyat their cameras are just fine and they just don't know how to test the AF system). But that does not mean I will sing to the same tune indicating all/most D800 bodies still have problems.

Clearly, if they were all faulty, Nikon wouldn't have sold more than quarter million of D800 bodies.

 

[GroWeb]

Pradipta Dutta wrote:

GroWeb wrote:

Pradipta Dutta wrote:

It is a human tendency that when they face a problem, they post all over the place (in the current internet era). DP Review being one of the biggest digital photography forums would have seen many-many more negativism had there been such a mass problem.

Where is this "tendency" documented in sociological, anthropological, or psychological literature? This "tendency" is a myth perpetuated on the internet on the basis of anecdotal and biased observation, and it is invariably used to bolster an argument intended to downplay a possible issue.

If you don't believe that to be true, you are just fooling yourself.

Your posts indicate that your goal is to prove there is a huge problem with all/most D800 bodies. Truly speaking, I don't care. The OP had asked a question about what the current state is for the camera. That is what I had responded to asking the OP to make his/her own judgement call. But that made some people get their panties in a bunch.

I absolutely sympathize people who are still carrying a flawed D800 and certainly believe that they do have problems with their bodies (unlike Leonard, I never challenged anyone thultyat their cameras are just fine and they just don't know how to test the AF system). But that does not mean I will sing to the same tune indicating all/most D800 bodies still have problems.

Clearly, if they were all faulty, Nikon wouldn't have sold more than quarter million of D800 bodies.

 

[Marianne Oelund]

olyflyer wrote:

What exactly is wrong in my response other than that......it does not fit your expectations of an approved answer? Well, never mind, but to me the only sane response is to contact Nikon when you have a consistent problem you claim to have.

What is wrong is that I was not voicing a complaint - you missed the point again: Although I have not used a D800/E which exhibits the "left AF point issue," I remain open-minded to the trials of others which indicate, through credible reports, that on the order of 10-20% of early D800 units are affected. I cannot help but think of what Jesus said: "Blessed are they who have not seen, yet believe."

When multiple users disclose that several bodies in a row that they have tried, exhibit this issue, then it isn't a 1% problem. When numerous users disclose that their camera has made many service trips to Nikon, with highly variable success, then Nikon service isn't an attractive option.

Perhaps some day I'll do with my D800E, what I've been doing for a living, with other complex electronic units, for decades: Take it apart and fix it myself. Why play the Nikon "black box shop" lottery, drawing a technician who has an unknown level of experience? If I eventually have someone adjust the camera for me, it will probably be a tech at a local shop, who has already proven their competence. In the meantime, the camera is perfectly usable with appropriate AF fine-tuning.