Switching to Fuji... ?

[Off The Mark]

Note that if you're using anything but S-Gamut3.Cine when hand-grading, you're wasting your time. S-Gamut and S-Gamut3 are extremely large color spaces, about as large as you can get for video. This extends the green reproduction range extensively, making the image look like it has a color cast. Excellent for high end work, where 3D LUTs are hand made. Poor for amateur work, where only things like curves and HSL are used. As for the other gamuts, their color spaces are too small for most video work. You'll get weird clipping with certain colors (especially blue) because of this.

S-Gamut3.Cine is made specifically for hand-grading, with a balanced reproduction of the color spectrum. It still has a wider color space than any standard gamut, while neutralizing the colors vs the standard S-Gamuts. This makes it much easier to work with outside of LUTs.

Thanks for the elaboration.

I generally avoid luts per se and use Resolve Color Management for input color space, which seems to do a pretty good job of mapping S Log / S-Gamut3 to REC 709 (and then I add in saturation and adjust exposure using curves or wheels with luminance mixing set to 0).

Yes, blue clipping in most all Sony picture profiles / gammas / gamuts is pretty frustrating. The tendency for blue highlights to skew toward cyan drives me crazy

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Crashing sucks!!!

 

[BlueBomberTurbo]

Yes, blue clipping in most all Sony picture profiles / gammas / gamuts is pretty frustrating. The tendency for blue highlights to skew toward cyan drives me crazy

It shouldn't be there in any of the S-Gamuts. I've tested it on blue LEDs, which are hell on the standard gamuts, and they fade away nicely while staying blue.

 

[Off The Mark]

Yes, blue clipping in most all Sony picture profiles / gammas / gamuts is pretty frustrating. The tendency for blue highlights to skew toward cyan drives me crazy

It shouldn't be there in any of the S-Gamuts. I've tested it on blue LEDs, which are hell on the standard gamuts, and they fade away nicely while staying blue.

Yeah, I think you are right. I seem to recall being particularly frustrated with the blue skewing toward cyan and the clipping / rollogg with the various Cine Gammas (I usually use Cine 4 / Pro if I am shooting in a Cine Gamma).

 

[BlueBomberTurbo]

Yes, blue clipping in most all Sony picture profiles / gammas / gamuts is pretty frustrating. The tendency for blue highlights to skew toward cyan drives me crazy

It shouldn't be there in any of the S-Gamuts. I've tested it on blue LEDs, which are hell on the standard gamuts, and they fade away nicely while staying blue.

Yeah, I think you are right. I seem to recall being particularly frustrated with the blue skewing toward cyan and the clipping / rollogg with the various Cine Gammas (I usually use Cine 4 / Pro if I am shooting in a Cine Gamma).

Note that "gamma" (tone) and "gamut" (color) are two different things. You can easily use a Cine 4/S-Gamut3.Cine combination. No limitations on mixing and matching.

 

[Off The Mark]

Yes, blue clipping in most all Sony picture profiles / gammas / gamuts is pretty frustrating. The tendency for blue highlights to skew toward cyan drives me crazy

It shouldn't be there in any of the S-Gamuts. I've tested it on blue LEDs, which are hell on the standard gamuts, and they fade away nicely while staying blue.

Yeah, I think you are right. I seem to recall being particularly frustrated with the blue skewing toward cyan and the clipping / rollogg with the various Cine Gammas (I usually use Cine 4 / Pro if I am shooting in a Cine Gamma).

Note that "gamma" (tone) and "gamut" (color) are two different things. You can easily use a Cine 4/S-Gamut3.Cine combination. No limitations on mixing and matching.

Thanks. Yes, I know there are a lot of people who take the default S Log 2 profile in Sony 8-bit cameras and simply change the gamma to Cine 4.

Question: Is there any negative (or benefit) to using S Log2 gamma and changing from the default S-Gamut gamma to S-Gamut3.cine? (This is for an 8-bit / rec 709 timeline).

Thanks in advance.

 

[BlueBomberTurbo]

Question: Is there any negative (or benefit) to using S Log2 gamma and changing from the default S-Gamut gamma to S-Gamut3.cine? (This is for an 8-bit / rec 709 timeline).

Thanks in advance.

S-Gamut3.Cine has normal color rendering with an extended color space vs non-S-Gamut gamuts. The other two have an extremely large color space that extends much further into green, which is why it creates a color cast.

The difference between S-Gamut and S-Gamut3 is, while they cover roughly the same color space, the original S-Gamut had some hue twists along the way that made colors shift slightly, depending on the exposure. S-Gamut3 is stable and consistent, no matter the exposure. But you need a true 3D LUT to get the most out of it, due to its complexity.

For use in S-Log2 8-bit, it works perfectly. I haven't seen an issue with major banding in S-Log2, but it shows up quickly in S-Log3 in skies and on walls, no matter the gamut.

 

[BrentSchumer]

I bought a used X-E3 to try out recently.

The good:

1. The thumbstick is GODLY for a left-eyed shooter that can't use touch controls well. Seriously, Sony: get on that!
2. Physical dials for everything that you could possibly want to adjust. My A6000 has one dial and one awkward wheel. A front wheel is a huge boon.
3. Physical focus type lever. Yes!
4. Generally more modern, parts: EVF, LCD, etc.
5. Menu system does not induce rage.

The Vexing:

1. Fuji's XF 18-135mm lens is huge and unbalanced on the X-E3. The Sony 18-135mm OSS is amazingly compact. It's a bother with every shot taken.
2. Overall, I found the body ergonomics to be frustrating with my big mitts. Part of this was due to #1, but there were other niggles.
3. In some ways I prefer the simpler Sony body layout. Chalk a piece of this to A6000 familiarity, but I find my large hands accidentally hitting things in the Fuji.

Despite the X-E3 being the better camera, I decided to keep the A6000. With it's svelte 18-135mm lens it's the better option for me. Now to sell the Fuji...

 

[Off The Mark]

Yes, blue clipping in most all Sony picture profiles / gammas / gamuts is pretty frustrating. The tendency for blue highlights to skew toward cyan drives me crazy

It shouldn't be there in any of the S-Gamuts. I've tested it on blue LEDs, which are hell on the standard gamuts, and they fade away nicely while staying blue.

Yeah, I think you are right. I seem to recall being particularly frustrated with the blue skewing toward cyan and the clipping / rollogg with the various Cine Gammas (I usually use Cine 4 / Pro if I am shooting in a Cine Gamma).

Note that "gamma" (tone) and "gamut" (color) are two different things. You can easily use a Cine 4/S-Gamut3.Cine combination. No limitations on mixing and matching.

Thanks. Yes, I know there are a lot of people who take the default S Log 2 profile in Sony 8-bit cameras and simply change the gamma to Cine 4.

Question: Is there any negative (or benefit) to using S Log2 gamma and changing from the default S-Gamut gamma to S-Gamut3.cine? (This is for an 8-bit / rec 709 timeline).

Thanks in advance.

Thank you!!!

 

[daqk]

After waiting for months (even years...) for a worthy update of my A6000, I don't have the patience to wait any longer and bought a used Fuji X-T20, just to check if I like it. I'm still new to the system so for now I'm not sure it's the right move for me, but here are some stuff I really like, in no particular order:

* Zoom on your focus point when reviewing image

* Horizontal line (I think A6300 and A6500 also have it)

* Integrated timelapse function

* Dials

* The 18-55 kit lens with F2.8 aperture 18mm, and sharper than my 1k$ SEL1670

* Fuji colors. Not sure if that's true or if the Fuji marketing start to work on me, but I think I prefer the colors I gets from the Fuji.

* Touch to shot - nice for stealthy street photo

That being said, I still prefer the handling of the A6000, which is more confortable to hold. I will continue to shoot both for some time to see which one I prefer.

Does anybody have made the same experience ? What makes you stay with Sony or switch to Fuji ?

Cheers

Not consider myself as a BIG Sony "fan", but I do use several Sony E/FE/A APSC and FF systems and lenses due to my needs.

I upgraded myself from A6000 to A6300, never looked back. I have SEL1018, SEL1650PZ, SEL18200 and recently bought SEL18135 (my goto lens!), besides I have SIgma 30F2.8, several Sony A mount bright primes with LA-EA adaptors.

I also just bought Fuji X-T20 for fun, and I kind of like it when travel "light", especially its smaller than A6xxx, the 1650 and 50230 are pretty decent on IQ.

I also noticed that if you want to play with primes (mostly no OIS) on Fuji you need go with X-T3 or other bodies with IBIS. For me it is ok since I rarely play primes on APSC.

My reason to buy X-T20 are a few: "really" cheap after X-T3 is out, zoom lens compact (in general Fuji bundle zooms are decent quality), out of camera JPEG very nice (both sharpness and color), very flexible custom buttons, smaller body, 4K video (compare to A6000, since A6300 is also 4K). I was not buying it to replace A6300. Those film color tunes are icing on the cake. And I hope to receive firmware update whenever Fuji is ready (Sony please wake up!!)

What I did not like much: No PASM dial, all in the finicky settings - if you never played with Fuji and did not read the manual, you might not know how to take a picture with it, and the power on button is weired, shutter button is vintage style will need buy a screw on cap, viewfinder (by the way no shade) sucks (eye point worse than A6xxx), flash can not bounce, grip is almost nothing (traded for compactness), tripod not @ optical axis (fine with me I may not need to use tripod often). Lastly, the lens shade may interfere with add on UV filter unless it is super slim :-(

I did not find Fuji body or lens build anything "cheap" compare to A6xxx.

I plan to sell my GX85 (heavy body!) so I can quit completely M4/3rd since I give up on its AF hunts @ video.

 

[Tim Crammond]

I'm in the same situation o considering upgrading my aps-c MILC and considering Fuji over a6500.

When I was looking to move up from my a6000, I picked the a6500 over Fuji for:

• IBIS

This is the biggest thing inclining me toward the a6500, but it seems a lot of money just for that feature (I'm not all that interested in a zillion focus points, as I more often than not use af-s, and a single focus point, usually center spot and recompose)

• Better ISO/DR performance

Is this really the case? It's difficult to get hard evidence about it, when dxo don't test Fuji sensors, but I've certainly heard people who owned (for example) a6000 and XT-1 saying the Fuji had better high ISO. In any case, it's a huge deal AFAIC.

• Buffer and AF performance

AF certainly seemed to be a point against the early Fuji X's, but I'm not sure it is now.

• Spectacular sigma primes and their price point (This one was huge for me)

It's hard to imagine life without my Sigmas, but knowing me I'd keep the Sony anyway.

• Body size and styling

The smaller rangefinder design of the a6*** is a huge plus. The Fuji definitely doesn't seem like it's even trying to compete in that area.

I love the direct manual controls. However that's also what compelled me to buy a Lumix LX100, and I ended up hardly using it (though I told myself the main reason was that it just never seemed any good for landscapes).

Tim

 

[Off The Mark]

• Better ISO/DR performance

Is this really the case? It's difficult to get hard evidence about it, when dxo don't test Fuji sensors, but I've certainly heard people who owned (for example) a6000 and XT-1 saying the Fuji had better high ISO. In any case, it's a huge deal AFAIC.

According to photons to photos:

Photographic Dynamic Range versus ISO Setting

The X-T3 has somewhat better DR performance than the a6500 (about half a stop to 2/3rds of a stop, depending on the ISO).

However... in general it seems that Fuji might apply less gain to the signal because images from Fuji cameras at the same ISO as Sony cameras tend to be half a stop to 2/3rds of a stop darker. So I don't know if the DR difference is that much in the real world.

The other thing is that the sensor in the X-T3 - which was designed by Fuji most likely - was manufactured by Sony, who have an off-the-shelf version for sale which can be bought and used by Nikon, Pentax, Canon, or any other camera manufacturer interested in making aps-c cameras.

Most likely this sensor (26MP BSI sensor) will be implemented in the newest Sony aps-c camera. I would also imagine that if Nikon does a refresh of their D7500 they would use this sensor, too. (Or if Nikon decides they want to launch a mirrorless APS-C camera... who knows if they will or won't).