Some basic (?) Photoshop questions

[Fishman Dan]

I'm using Photoshop pretty broadly, I'n not at all an expert but I have enough knowledge to do what I need, and a little more bit (especially with the help of search engines).

I have two specific questions that I am hoping someone can provide some guidance. They both arise from my current project, which is essentially sports memorabilia from an indoor shoot. Due to poor weather I shot kids in front of a white screen, and masking them has been wonderfully easy.

However;

1. I can do my adjustments etc, then I need to place that image onto a background to create a composite. Not my favourite routine but given the weather here there was no choice.

What is the best way to take image A (the player) with all adjustments and changes, and paste into image B (background/scene).

I have tried masking the player, and then "Copy Merged", and pasting. From my naked eye it looks like some adjustments such as Vibrance are *stronger* when pasted. Note it might just be standing out more on the different background.

Also note that a simply Cmd-C copy/paste will seemingly do the above without the adjustments.

2. As a result of where I had to shoot, some kids have a very slight yellow tinge on their arms.

I have tried Colour Balance and playing with Selective Colour and channels, but my issue is when I get the face/nose/eyes/forehead right, the arms (folded in front of them) get a yellow hue in the shadowy areas. It seems any adjustments to fix one thing alters the other in a negative way.

I am currently experimenting with a Solid Colour / Colour Fill, using the eye dropper to find a neutral skin tone on the child, inverting the mask and then painting that into the main pic with very low flow/opacity.

The colour might even be a reflection from the bricks in the room.

Any advice or techniques greatly appreciated. I have about 50 kids portraits that might need this process, so I'm not looking to do anything really extensive, just a bit of a cleanup.

 

[HarwoodF]

I have tried masking the player, and then "Copy Merged", and pasting. From my naked eye it looks like some adjustments such as Vibrance are *stronger* when pasted. Note it might just be standing out more on the different background.

<snip>

2. As a result of where I had to shoot, some kids have a very slight yellow tinge on their arms.

Instead of describing what you're seeing, show us what you're seeing.

 

[SterlingBjorndahl]

I have tried masking the player, and then "Copy Merged", and pasting. From my naked eye it looks like some adjustments such as Vibrance are *stronger* when pasted. Note it might just be standing out more on the different background.

You could try "Merge Visible" (ctrl-shift-E) before selecting and copying your subject.

If you think the colours might have changed, perhaps using the eyedropper tool and looking at the RGB or Lab values will provide some evidence.

It seems any adjustments to fix one thing alters the other in a negative way.

Sounds like you'll have to be doing some masking and/or painting. You may need to try different layer blend modes, e.g. Hue or Color. Perhaps a Hue/Saturation or Color Balance adjustment layer with a mask would work.

Best of luck,
Sterling
--
Lens Grit

 

[Gato Amarillo]

...
However;

1. I can do my adjustments etc, then I need to place that image onto a background to create a composite. Not my favourite routine but given the weather here there was no choice.

What is the best way to take image A (the player) with all adjustments and changes, and paste into image B (background/scene).

Similar to an earlier post, I make a merged layer (ctrl+alt+shift+E). Then on the new layer I use the Select and Mask workspace to select the subject and create a new layer with mask. That seems to preserve the subject well and the layer mask lets me fine tune the edges of the merge. I can either copy that layer to the background photo or copy the background to a layer below my masked layer, Once I'm satisfied I can merger or delete unneeded layers.

...
2. As a result of where I had to shoot, some kids have a very slight yellow tinge on their arms.

I use the Brush tool set to Color -- pick a good skin tone and paint over the offending area. Generally about a 20% Opacity works for me, but you may need to experiment. Often I do this on a duplicate layer so I can also play with layer opacity, then when I'm satisfied I can merge it down. Or if I screw it up I can delete that layer and start over.

Gato

 

[Major Jack]

I am one that likes to see what you are doing, and then what you need help with. There are MANY ways in Photoshop to do certain things, but that is dependent on what the issue is.

I need to see Image A, and then I need to know what you are trying to accomplish with what type of new background. You mention you are trying to do Memorabilia shots, so are you trying to add Sports Backgrounds? If so, yes, it requires some blending of colors to make it look realistic. I can NOT wait for the new Photoshop tool that is going to help with that TREMENDOUSLY, called "Harmonize". The Harmonize tool is suppose to take a subject, (player) and merge it with a new background, and then make it look as if it was part of the new background originally, with blending of shadows, colors, etc. But, unless you have Photoshop Beta, you can not access that tool yet.

Anyway, are you willing to post a photo of one of the Image A's, and then perhaps the background you want to use? If so, I am sure you will get several of us to show you what we can do, or even give you other options. Up to you though if you are willing to post a Photo. I will understand if you are NOT willing to do that.

 

[Fishman Dan]

I have tried masking the player, and then "Copy Merged", and pasting. From my naked eye it looks like some adjustments such as Vibrance are *stronger* when pasted. Note it might just be standing out more on the different background.

<snip>

2. As a result of where I had to shoot, some kids have a very slight yellow tinge on their arms.

Instead of describing what you're seeing, show us what you're seeing.

Fair question ... but I'm really after technique or ideas that might also assist. Due to the nature of the shot/s (young sportspeople), I'd rather not show them if at all possible.

I figure there has to be another/cleaner process.

- Edit the player

- Copy from that .psd, or perhaps even export as a high res png

- Bring into the 2nd/background image.

One thing I've done is mask-out the adjustments on just the arms. It works for a couple of reasons, mainly because people who see these sports mementos will look at the players eyes before anything else.

I've done 2 of the teams now and I'm happy, but I won't really know how effective until I start printing (being a 'Perfectionist' can be challenging when you're always looking for imperfections in your own work!).

 

[Fishman Dan]

I have tried masking the player, and then "Copy Merged", and pasting. From my naked eye it looks like some adjustments such as Vibrance are *stronger* when pasted. Note it might just be standing out more on the different background.

You could try "Merge Visible" (ctrl-shift-E) before selecting and copying your subject.

If you think the colours might have changed, perhaps using the eyedropper tool and looking at the RGB or Lab values will provide some evidence.

It seems any adjustments to fix one thing alters the other in a negative way.

Sounds like you'll have to be doing some masking and/or painting. You may need to try different layer blend modes, e.g. Hue or Color. Perhaps a Hue/Saturation or Color Balance adjustment layer with a mask would work.

Best of luck,
Sterling
--
Lens Grit

Thanks Sterling.

You've touched on what I've started doing (it's amazing what taking a break from work can do) .... I'm masking out just the arms on the Adjustment mask with a brush on 30-40% flow. Seems to do the trick.

I'll try Merge Visible. Not something I've done before.

 

[Fishman Dan]

I use the Brush tool set to Color -- pick a good skin tone and paint over the offending area. Generally about a 20% Opacity works for me, but you may need to experiment. Often I do this on a duplicate layer so I can also play with layer opacity, then when I'm satisfied I can merge it down. Or if I screw it up I can delete that layer and start over.

Gato

Thanks Gato.

One of the team/larger shots, I noticed the sides of the faces of 2 of the coaches were grey. Just nothing there ... the angle of the sun, shadow ... not sure why, they had a couple of dull patches.

In these cases I picked a skin tone from each of these people and painted it in very subtly, worked a treat. Again ... this is something I 'know' how to do, but actions like this aren't quite muscle-memory for me yet. But I'm getting there.

 

[Fishman Dan]

I am one that likes to see what you are doing, and then what you need help with. There are MANY ways in Photoshop to do certain things, but that is dependent on what the issue is.

I need to see Image A, and then I need to know what you are trying to accomplish with what type of new background. You mention you are trying to do Memorabilia shots, so are you trying to add Sports Backgrounds? If so, yes, it requires some blending of colors to make it look realistic. I can NOT wait for the new Photoshop tool that is going to help with that TREMENDOUSLY, called "Harmonize". The Harmonize tool is suppose to take a subject, (player) and merge it with a new background, and then make it look as if it was part of the new background originally, with blending of shadows, colors, etc. But, unless you have Photoshop Beta, you can not access that tool yet.

It sounds AI-based, and while it will really knock what I'm doing out of the park, I would rather not step into AI edits atm. Things I need can be done without, so I'll favour that first.

Anyway, are you willing to post a photo of one of the Image A's, and then perhaps the background you want to use? If so, I am sure you will get several of us to show you what we can do, or even give you other options. Up to you though if you are willing to post a Photo. I will understand if you are NOT willing to do that.

Fair enough .. there have been a few requests for this. I will post later today (it's 9am here in Australia) as I'm headed out and won't be back until this evening.

Tbh I think the perception of what I'm concerned about is unwarranted, as it was very possibly due to the naked eye seeing the image 1) On a white background, and then 2) pasted onto a scene.

 

[Fishman Dan]

For the sake of the discussion, here's what I'm up to. I don't think there is any issue using Copy Merged (cmd-shift-c) in Photoshop before pasting into a standard background (shot a number of days later).

I may have been 'jumping at shadows', but this process was new to me and important to get it right, as I have 3 squads (about 60 kids) to do ... so I wanted to confirm my actions on the first attempt that I could replicate (with confidence) for the rest.

Here was the process.

1. Shoot the player indoors due to heavy rain outdoors.

I Masked All Objects (Layer menu), then cmd-click the player mask to select/outline the player only, select the image (not the adjustment/mask) then hit Shift-cmd-C to 'Copy Merged'.



2. The image is pasted onto a standard background (and sized if needed), and saved as a jpg



3. Bring that jpg into InDesign and place the player in my design



As said Copy Merged works well, but I was initially thinking I could save the person as a transparent hi-res png file ... I feel that would have been a bit cleaner but ultimately the plan has come together nicely.

The png file might have been easier in any future needs, which would be if I had a request to remake or reprint anyones image.

 

[ishwanu]

Have you considered slightly blurring the background shot? It might look more realistic.

 

[Gato Amarillo]

Looks very good to me. The kids and the parents should be very happy.

The photo-perfectionists might quibble with the blend at the edge of the selection, but 99.9 percent of the public won't care. The suggestion of a touch of blur on the background could work well.

Gato

 

[Matt2134]

I saw your answer to Major Jack, but honestly it makes no sense. Harmonise just automates a lot of manual processes that you would undertake to blend your object on a new background - it doesn't materially change the object, it just adds shadow and lights to match the background and sorts out colour discrepancies - it is a tool literally designed to do what you are trying to do, and although it probably isn't as good as a very high end retoucher doing the job, it's better than just about anything else.

It's available now in the beta (don't think it has landed on the main version yet, I may be wrong) but it will make your final images better for sure. Can I recommend watching the piximperfect video that will explain much better...

It also covers the quick method to do what you want regardin copying across to the new background.

 

[Kaj E]

For the sake of the discussion, here's what I'm up to. I don't think there is any issue using Copy Merged (cmd-shift-c) in Photoshop before pasting into a standard background (shot a number of days later).

I may have been 'jumping at shadows', but this process was new to me and important to get it right, as I have 3 squads (about 60 kids) to do ... so I wanted to confirm my actions on the first attempt that I could replicate (with confidence) for the rest.

Here was the process.

1. Shoot the player indoors due to heavy rain outdoors.

I Masked All Objects (Layer menu), then cmd-click the player mask to select/outline the player only, select the image (not the adjustment/mask) then hit Shift-cmd-C to 'Copy Merged'.



2. The image is pasted onto a standard background (and sized if needed), and saved as a jpg



3. Bring that jpg into InDesign and place the player in my design



As said Copy Merged works well, but I was initially thinking I could save the person as a transparent hi-res png file ... I feel that would have been a bit cleaner but ultimately the plan has come together nicely.

The png file might have been easier in any future needs, which would be if I had a request to remake or reprint anyones image.

The card looks quite good. Could be a flash image. A card does not need to be a perfect photograph.

But in the image showing more of the background there is a clear difference between the lighting on the subject and the background. Does not look right. If you do not want to use "Harmonize" it would be best to select the subject lighting at the shoot to match the selected background.

--
Kind regards
Kaj

Galleries by Kaj E

www.pbase.com

WSSA member #13
It's about time we started to take photography seriously and treat it as a hobby.- Elliott Erwitt

 

[Fishman Dan]

Looks very good to me. The kids and the parents should be very happy.

The photo-perfectionists might quibble with the blend at the edge of the selection, but 99.9 percent of the public won't care. The suggestion of a touch of blur on the background could work well.

Gato

Thanks Gato. This is the 3rd year in production for these, they have improved every year, including the lighting and softboxes I'm using - and how I'm using them.

Sports memorabilia and mementos stopped being 'cool' a while ago, so I'm bringing it back and they are being really well received. Of course, decent photos are a big part of that (one club I've engaged did it last year and they weren't very good apparently).

As a perfectionist myself, the only thing I'm now concerned about is how they print. I'll start tests soon ... I'm using an Epson P906, which isn't really the correct 'profile' for this sort of work, but the quality is spectacular and I purchased it during a promotion so I couldn't fault the price.

The card you see is printed 18 per A3 page (double-sided, I print the club logo and slogan on the back), then I get them cello-coated and cut them myself. Very much a kitchen-table production.

 

[Fishman Dan]

The card looks quite good. Could be a flash image. A card does not need to be a perfect photograph.

But in the image showing more of the background there is a clear difference between the lighting on the subject and the background. Does not look right. If you do not want to use "Harmonize" it would be best to select the subject lighting at the shoot to match the selected background.

Thanks Kaj.

The lighting difference isn't important for this purpose, but I completely agree with what you posted.

I have a 3rd light (AD300 Pro) which I could have used as a hair light about 45* behind and elevated with a reflector, which would have made it bright and as if the player is standing in the sun ... but it's a smaller detail in the scheme of things.

The choice/need to shoot indoors is an unfortunate outcome when doing team memorabilia. I two more squads to shoot for another club - they moved from yesterday (Sunday) when it was warm, 24* and cloudless. On Wednesday when they requested we are expecting between 40mm and 50mm of rain!!

During this 'sports photo' season, I have shot in locations with the rain pouring outside, I've had clear day shots, and clear evening shots. I ask the clubs to consider a 'wet weather location' .... sometimes you just have to make good with what you have.

This is one of the evening shots ... and without word of a lie, it will be hard to better this for timing and setup.

 

[Fishman Dan]

The issue for me here is the use of AI.

It's not that I'm dead against it, but if I don't need AI to touch my photos, then I will use other methods (or in this case not at all).

Absolute perfection is not required here so I'm happy to move on as shown.

 

[Gato Amarillo]

Sounds great. Also sounds like a ton of work -- I'm not sure I'd the the patience or the "stick to it" to make it through.

But you seem to have it together. Hope it all goes well.

Gato

 

[Fishman Dan]

Sounds great. Also sounds like a ton of work -- I'm not sure I'd the the patience or the "stick to it" to make it through.

But you seem to have it together. Hope it all goes well.

Gato

Certainly a lot of work, but not hard work, just repetitive.

When I get it down-pat, I'll look for further time savings ... the last thing I want to do is send them offshore to get processed, but for the most part they are fairly straight-forward.

The good thing about the indoor/composite is that the settings are largely consistent, and I don't have to edit any backgrounds. When I do a normal shot outdoors, I have to touch the background (usually just 'soften' it - reduce contrast, saturation etc so it doesn't over-power).

And I literally just took a phone call for a 10-day representative basketball carnival in my area. Which highlights one thing - these Australian Rules football teams are anywhere from 14-15 kids in the younger ages, to basketball which is only 8-12 kids per team.

If I play my cards right, I can stop taking on 'periphery' jobs in 2026 and focus on this and my sports shooting for some media groups ... and drop the lucrative video jobs (that end up consuming way more time than it should).

 

[Major Jack]

For the sake of the discussion, here's what I'm up to. I don't think there is any issue using Copy Merged (cmd-shift-c) in Photoshop before pasting into a standard background (shot a number of days later).

I may have been 'jumping at shadows', but this process was new to me and important to get it right, as I have 3 squads (about 60 kids) to do ... so I wanted to confirm my actions on the first attempt that I could replicate (with confidence) for the rest.

Here was the process.

1. Shoot the player indoors due to heavy rain outdoors.

I Masked All Objects (Layer menu), then cmd-click the player mask to select/outline the player only, select the image (not the adjustment/mask) then hit Shift-cmd-C to 'Copy Merged'.



2. The image is pasted onto a standard background (and sized if needed), and saved as a jpg



3. Bring that jpg into InDesign and place the player in my design



As said Copy Merged works well, but I was initially thinking I could save the person as a transparent hi-res png file ... I feel that would have been a bit cleaner but ultimately the plan has come together nicely.

The png file might have been easier in any future needs, which would be if I had a request to remake or reprint anyones image.

Personally, I like what you have done above. I realize you also said that you do not want to interject Ai into your work, and that is absolutely your choice, I respect that completely. What you might want to try to do though, is add some type of outdoor lighting affects to the subject, because with photo taken inside, and a background clearly of outside, you would expect to see some shadow areas on the face and arms based on directional lighting. That is what the new "Harmonize" tool will do automatically for you in Photoshop when it is finalized and released. Right now, it is in Beta Format only. But, it is designed to do exactly that, harmonize the subject to the background with regards to lighting and blending of colors.

Now, just to give it a little of my own take, here is an attempt from me. The Background is indeed Ai generated. When you said you were looking to create a "Memorabilia" affect, I just wanted to see what I could try to create that type of style. There are just so many different things you can "create" using Ai. You can even create Sports Card templates, or even Magazine Covers, which is somewhat what I was going for here. You can just let your mind create whatever your heart imagines, and you can create those thoughts with Ai. But, if you are 100% against that, then again, I can, and will respect your opinion. After all, it is what YOU are tying to accomplish, not us.

Here is my quick try though.




Click on Image to view at Full Size.



--
Major Jack
"You are welcome to retouch any photograph I post in these forums without prior consent from me". Have fun, and play as you wish.