So disappointed with the DP1 after using it.

[spm]

Look like politics campaign marketing is your things...impressive clients list...I only heard about this kind of consulting before.
http://www.nickdavis.com/node/8

That the groundwork for this trolling stunt was begun 4 years ago
when I started on this board and continued up until this point, the
culmination of my 4-year plan, to tarnish the fine name of a camera
only under secret development at the time.

Mastermind, indeed. Mwahhhaahhaa.

--

'Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great.'

• Mark Twain

 

[Laurence Matson]

I see you on this board three hours ago for the first time.

I am not accusing you of long term thinking - heaven help me to so compliment you. Rather, your "efforts" are noromish musings of someone who has not a clue but rather is more interested in gaining a couple of those Capote seconds.

Believe me, the DP1 is an amazing little camera. As someone once said, "It rocks."

That the groundwork for this trolling stunt was begun 4 years ago
when I started on this board and continued up until this point, the
culmination of my 4-year plan, to tarnish the fine name of a camera
only under secret development at the time.

Mastermind, indeed. Mwahhhaahhaa.

--
Laurence

My idea of good company is the fellowship of clever, well-informed people, who have a great deal of conversation and liberality of ideas.

Jane Austen

http://www.pbase.com/lmatson/root
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr/root
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sigma/sd10
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sigma/sd9
http://www.beachbriss.com

 

[WD40]

Nick-

I'm interested to hear your opinions.

The flickr link you provided only shows reduced-size images for me - do you have direct links to the full-size images?

With regards to the quality of the JPEGs, we have seen from the other samples that there are definite differences between the raw conversions and the in-camera JPEG. Someone had also discovered that the unofficial images were inidicating a new version of SPP was being used to process them. To me, this makes sense - figure out the processing on the PC side where it is easy, then update the in-camera algorithms once it is taken care of, before the cameras start shipping. This would certainly explain the results of having poor in-camera JPEGs come out of a camera off the trade show floor. Unlike Laurence, I don't have any "real" information, so it's all just speculation.

Also, I would be greatly interested in seeing the video clip you shot - the one with the banding / half-green artifacts. The fine-level quality is certainly not indicative of the final product, but it WOULD give some clues about the video encoding methods, etc, that will be used for the final product. Do you have a way to host that? The actual file from the camera would be better than a re-encoded form (YouTube, etc).

Thanks

• David

 

[Guenter Borgemeister]

you were clearly not allowed to use that camera, let alone show images made with it. It probably was a unfinished sample not meant for taking pictures with at all.

Sigma gave away ready cameras to very few, selected people, Phil being one of them. You clearly were not.

The samples of Phil also clearly shows that your samples are not valid.

Would be interesting to see what an US-lawyer could do about this.

I had a chance to play with the DP1 Friday morning at PMA, and I
thought the camera was a horrible disappointment. I have been waiting
for the release since I saw it in the case at last year's PMA.

I found the camera to be unintuitive (this I can blame on being a
lifelong Canon user - I'm sure a Sigma user would have less trouble),
noisy, unresponsive, slow-focusing, and the picture quality to be
sub-par, especially at ISO 800 (now I know why they didn't include
ISO 1600, which is a necessity with an F4 lens).

To say I was disappointed is a huge understatement. Maybe I had the
camera setup wrong. Maybe there are some last-minute bugs needing to
be fixed (like the bottom half of the video I shot showing up as
green, and the color being off on the rest). I will definitely give
it another chance if my results are atypical. Like I said, I've been
waiting for this camera so long........

Flickr set (contains full-size images taken at the Sigma booth):
http://flickr.com/photos/nickdavis/sets/72157603848763241/

ISO 800:

--
http://swiss-landmarks.ch
http://www.pbase.com/ghoerdt

 

[BarrytheB]

I assumed they were letting visitors use their own cards and shoot a few at the stand. And I gave this idiot a few kind words- shame on me. I've seen some underhanded tricks before but this beats all. And hell I'm in the oil business.
--
Barry Byrd
http://www.pbase.com/barryb
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr

 

[yvind Strm]

Dear Seng

It is better for this forum, for Sigma and for everyone, if you just stay out of these discussions. Who cares about this persons opinions? If you want to reply, why not just be polite and point to others quite impressive test-shots? Why contribute to make this a 150 post thread, for everyone to see how Sigma users respond to critism (unjustified)?

I just put mine in from my other camera. I wasn't aware that I wasn't
supposed to. No one was really watching or paying attention. The girl
at the counter (not the one in the pictures, that's my wife) didn't
know much about the camera.

Oh really? and you happen to just have 6 pictures from dp1 on your
flickr account? you creates a special account just for this...how
special treatment...where are your others Canon's pictures? love to
see them...I am interest because dp-1 mostly attract serious shooters
and they don't often just check out the camera for just iso800...
How long did you get to handle this dp1? 2 minutes, 5 minutes?
Did you went to PMA just for this? no others pictures from other
cams? since you sounds like someone who really knows what he is
doing, I love to see your other pictures from other cams as well.

--
'Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small
people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you,
too, can become great.'

• Mark Twain

--
Kind regards
Øyvind Strøm
http://www.pbase.com/norwegianviking/sd14
http://www.norwegianviking.smugmug.com
http://www.pbase.com/norwegianviking
SD-14 Compendium: http://www.foto.nordjylland.biz/SD14/SD-usertips.htm

 

[yvind Strm]

Dear Laurence

It is better for this forum, for Sigma and for everyone, if you just stay out of these discussions. Who cares about this persons opinions? If you want to reply, why not just be polite and point to others quite impressive test-shots? Why contribute to make this a 150 post thread, for everyone to see how Sigma users respond to critism (unjustified)?

First of all, if anyone has created an unintuitive menu structure, it
is Canon. For the rest, I hope you have assuaged your ego needs with
this effort. As I see from the pictures, this was taken after the
show opened. All of the cameras were taped shut by then, so you
removed the tape and shot some jpegs. And then you present here with
your list of complaints based on your floozy test.

Were you really interested in the camera and not in dissing something
to satisfy another need, you would have taken the time to come to the
DP1 are of the booth, where you also could have seen the images taken
from it. Instead, you stayed in the lens area and took your trip.

Well done Troll.

I had a chance to play with the DP1 Friday morning at PMA, and I
thought the camera was a horrible disappointment. I have been waiting
for the release since I saw it in the case at last year's PMA.

I found the camera to be unintuitive (this I can blame on being a
lifelong Canon user - I'm sure a Sigma user would have less trouble),
noisy, unresponsive, slow-focusing, and the picture quality to be
sub-par, especially at ISO 800 (now I know why they didn't include
ISO 1600, which is a necessity with an F4 lens).

To say I was disappointed is a huge understatement. Maybe I had the
camera setup wrong. Maybe there are some last-minute bugs needing to
be fixed (like the bottom half of the video I shot showing up as
green, and the color being off on the rest). I will definitely give
it another chance if my results are atypical. Like I said, I've been
waiting for this camera so long........

--
Laurence

My idea of good company is the fellowship of clever, well-informed
people, who have a great deal of conversation and liberality of ideas.

Jane Austen

http://www.pbase.com/lmatson/root
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr/root
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sigma/sd10
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sigma/sd9
http://www.beachbriss.com

--
Kind regards
Øyvind Strøm
http://www.pbase.com/norwegianviking/sd14
http://www.norwegianviking.smugmug.com
http://www.pbase.com/norwegianviking
SD-14 Compendium: http://www.foto.nordjylland.biz/SD14/SD-usertips.htm

 

[yvind Strm]

take the man instead...
Go out and take some pictures.

That the groundwork for this trolling stunt was begun 4 years ago
when I started on this board and continued up until this point, the
culmination of my 4-year plan, to tarnish the fine name of a camera
only under secret development at the time.

Mastermind, indeed. Mwahhhaahhaa.

--
'Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small
people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you,
too, can become great.'

• Mark Twain

--
Kind regards
Øyvind Strøm
http://www.pbase.com/norwegianviking/sd14
http://www.norwegianviking.smugmug.com
http://www.pbase.com/norwegianviking
SD-14 Compendium: http://www.foto.nordjylland.biz/SD14/SD-usertips.htm

 

[DavidMillier]

spm: Ah, never mind the reasoned arguments, let's go straight for the bitchy attacks.

Laurence: Sometimes your obsessive defence of all things Sigma makes it very difficult for a proper debate to occur.

To the OP: Sorry you felt the product didn't meet your expectations; in truth many products fail to meet many people's But at least try and be fair to this one and save your criticisms for the production model. Attacking an unfinished demo sample is a bit premature.

Come on people, we are talking about nothing more than a product here, one of billions in the world. It might be good, it might be bad but in no circumstances is it worth creating WWIII over....

That the groundwork for this trolling stunt was begun 4 years ago
when I started on this board and continued up until this point, the
culmination of my 4-year plan, to tarnish the fine name of a camera
only under secret development at the time.

Mastermind, indeed. Mwahhhaahhaa.

--
'Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small
people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you,
too, can become great.'

• Mark Twain

--
Galleries and website: http://www.whisperingcat.co.uk/mainindex.htm

 

[Digital Coast Image]

I found the camera to be unintuitive (this I can blame on being a
lifelong Canon user - I'm sure a Sigma user would have less trouble)

I've shot Nikon for years...
D70, then D80, then D200, now D3
ditto on Canon and shoot with it simultaneously at events...
XT, then 20D, then 30D, now 5D

I just discovered sigma in late '07.

Sigma is intuitive and childs play compared to Nikon/Canon menus and buttons.

I'm shocked that coming from Canon you couldn't see the simplicity of Sigma in comparison.

--
Michael James - DigitalCoastImage.com - Destin, FL U.S.A.

 

[murdoprint]

Wow.

I shoot Nikon, but have been following the DP1 since I first saw its website. Theoretically, it sounds like exactly what I would want in a small camera. I don't need a bunch of features, but I want significantly better image quality and high ISO ability than p&s cameras. If this camera doesn't have that, there is no reason I would buy it.

I thought the OP was very even handed in his criticism, saying his results may have been atypical.

But instead of suggesting what might be wrong, you go on this tirade about not going to the right countertop and peeling tape. None of that is helpful.

But the way? "Capote seconds?" What in the world are those?

I see you on this board three hours ago for the first time.

I am not accusing you of long term thinking - heaven help me to so
compliment you. Rather, your "efforts" are noromish musings of
someone who has not a clue but rather is more interested in gaining a
couple of those Capote seconds.

Believe me, the DP1 is an amazing little camera. As someone once
said, "It rocks."

 

[Duarte Lourenco]

This thread is unbelievable.

I follow this forum regularly, I have an interest in the technology.

That said, this forum has some very paranoid people. You should take a step back and look at what you write sometimes. From an unattached reader point of view, it looks ridiculous. Really. In your defense for a commercial brand, you sometimes get downright rude. There's no reason and no excuse for this, it serves no one.

Regarding the dp1:

Leaked photos of earlier stage cameras leak from every camera manufacturer. The foveon seems to need a bit more attention regarding exposure and WB, so in this type of environment it is clear that the first time shooter of a beta stage DP1 might have a less than great experience.

I liked the images that Phil posted, although that first one has the woman looking a bit "alien-esq". As with any camera in this stage I'll reserve my judgment for the production camera.

--
Duarte Lourenço, Portugal

http://kidcabide.deviantart.com/gallery/

 

[Pete Stavrakoglou]

I couldn't believe how good the super bowl game was. Very exciting, I
couldn't believe NY won the game. I bet Las Vegas lost a bundle on
the bets.

Regards,
Larry

I was confident that the Giants could win, they did not disappoint me. The last game when they came within three points gave them the confidence to know that they could beat the Patriots. They actually outplayed the Patriots in that game.

--
My humble photo gallery: http://ntotrr.smugmug.com

 

[jobjob]

I´m not disappointed from the DP1 cause Sigma never promised a lowlight camera.
Like many other specs it was a wish from me or other forum members.
But nothing more. So this have to be consider in all analysis.

The DP1 is a very good compact daylight stuff with a lot of manual control. And for that it gives no reason to diss the camera or Sigma. And no reason to buy it. Cause it is to near to my Digilux 2 and i'm very happy with it. But this is only a personal choice.

 

[yvind Strm]

Come on Güenter
Why not just let it rest?
Who cares about the opinion of one poster?
Why contribute to make it a 150post thread?

Can you prove that the tape was in place when this person got his hands on the camera?
Was it a condition for holding the camera that you did not put a card in it?
Was it a condition for entering the Sigma boot?

Does it matter if one person demonstrate that he is less capable than others in getting good results with htis camera?
How do you now that it was this person that removed the tape?

Sigma gave away ready cameras to very few, selected people, Phil
being one of them. You clearly were not.

The samples of Phil also clearly shows that your samples are not valid.

Would be interesting to see what an US-lawyer could do about this.

I had a chance to play with the DP1 Friday morning at PMA, and I
thought the camera was a horrible disappointment. I have been waiting
for the release since I saw it in the case at last year's PMA.

I found the camera to be unintuitive (this I can blame on being a
lifelong Canon user - I'm sure a Sigma user would have less trouble),
noisy, unresponsive, slow-focusing, and the picture quality to be
sub-par, especially at ISO 800 (now I know why they didn't include
ISO 1600, which is a necessity with an F4 lens).

To say I was disappointed is a huge understatement. Maybe I had the
camera setup wrong. Maybe there are some last-minute bugs needing to
be fixed (like the bottom half of the video I shot showing up as
green, and the color being off on the rest). I will definitely give
it another chance if my results are atypical. Like I said, I've been
waiting for this camera so long........

Flickr set (contains full-size images taken at the Sigma booth):
http://flickr.com/photos/nickdavis/sets/72157603848763241/

ISO 800:

--
http://swiss-landmarks.ch
http://www.pbase.com/ghoerdt

--
Kind regards
Øyvind Strøm
http://www.pbase.com/norwegianviking/sd14
http://www.norwegianviking.smugmug.com
http://www.pbase.com/norwegianviking
SD-14 Compendium: http://www.foto.nordjylland.biz/SD14/SD-usertips.htm

 

[yvind Strm]

Hello Duarte

This thread is unbelievable.

I follow this forum regularly, I have an interest in the technology.

That said, this forum has some very paranoid people. You should take
a step back and look at what you write sometimes. From an unattached
reader point of view, it looks ridiculous. Really. In your defense
for a commercial brand, you sometimes get downright rude. There's no
reason and no excuse for this, it serves no one.

Read and learn, Seng, Laurence, Güenter and Jim.
You really hurts this forum and Sigma more than you can imagine.

Regarding the dp1:

Leaked photos of earlier stage cameras leak from every camera
manufacturer. The foveon seems to need a bit more attention regarding
exposure and WB, so in this type of environment it is clear that the
first time shooter of a beta stage DP1 might have a less than great
experience.

I liked the images that Phil posted, although that first one has the
woman looking a bit "alien-esq". As with any camera in this stage
I'll reserve my judgment for the production camera.

--
Duarte Lourenço, Portugal

http://kidcabide.deviantart.com/gallery/

--
Kind regards
Øyvind Strøm
http://www.pbase.com/norwegianviking/sd14
http://www.norwegianviking.smugmug.com
http://www.pbase.com/norwegianviking
SD-14 Compendium: http://www.foto.nordjylland.biz/SD14/SD-usertips.htm

 

[convert]

I had a look at the pice from flickr and I think that this guy may have got his shots in before the thing was taped shut. probably before pma was open.

I base my comment on the fact the the exif info from the camera from his very extensive flickr site (great photos btw) has a date of 26 jan (1978)

late at night?
or simply bribery.

He just does not know how to process non-canon images

Just as I am 'allergic' to the non-intuitive (to me) canon type iterface he does not know how to think out of his square.

Camera: SIGMA DP1
Exposure: 0.033 sec (1/30)
Aperture: f/5
Focal Length: 16.6 mm
ISO Speed: 800
Exposure Bias: 0/10 EV

Orientation: Horizontal (normal)
X-Resolution: 180 dpi
Y-Resolution: 180 dpi
Software: 0.39.0.000
Date and Time: 1978:01:26 23:33:26
--
Andy
Dalinean
convert

Sigma sd10
etc

 

[convert]

That the groundwork for this trolling stunt was begun 4 years ago
when I started on this board and continued up until this point, the
culmination of my 4-year plan, to tarnish the fine name of a camera
only under secret development at the time.

Mastermind, indeed. Mwahhhaahhaa.

You devious bas ket
lol!

--
Andy
Dalinean
convert

Sigma sd10
etc

 

[NarrBL]

So, Øyvind --

You like to write stories, I believe I have heard.

So around comes someone who says they want to meet you, and you are courteous and let them in.

While you are in the kitchen making some coffee for politeness, this person riffles through your papers and photos your recent jottings.

Afterwards, they publish their criticisms and misimpressions of your capabilities and your art, by showing all the crossed out words, the first ideas you intend to make better, and the general messyness which any intelligent person would understand was 'under construction' if they were privileged to see it before it was finished.

Furthermore, when your wife, girlfriend, or daughter writes to complain of this criminal treatment, she is told she has no business saying anything, by a resident moralist (see H. Ibsen) who is much better enjoyed by his friends when he is not on his high horse.

I am trying to get this straight. A cheat and a troublemaker ought to be listened to, but a person who knows the truth and stands up for fairness has no right to speak.

Is this your position when you think about it a little more? Not to mention your own proportionate number of contributions to a 150-length reply?

I invite you to think a little more, Øyvind.

Regards,
Clive

It is better for this forum, for Sigma and for everyone, if you just
stay out of these discussions. Who cares about this persons opinions?
If you want to reply, why not just be polite and point to others
quite impressive test-shots? Why contribute to make this a 150 post
thread, for everyone to see how Sigma users respond to critism
(unjustified)?

I just put mine in from my other camera. I wasn't aware that I wasn't
supposed to. No one was really watching or paying attention. The girl
at the counter (not the one in the pictures, that's my wife) didn't
know much about the camera.

Oh really? and you happen to just have 6 pictures from dp1 on your
flickr account? you creates a special account just for this...how
special treatment...where are your others Canon's pictures? love to
see them...I am interest because dp-1 mostly attract serious shooters
and they don't often just check out the camera for just iso800...
How long did you get to handle this dp1? 2 minutes, 5 minutes?
Did you went to PMA just for this? no others pictures from other
cams? since you sounds like someone who really knows what he is
doing, I love to see your other pictures from other cams as well.

--
'Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small
people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you,
too, can become great.'

• Mark Twain

--
Kind regards
Øyvind Strøm
http://www.pbase.com/norwegianviking/sd14
http://www.norwegianviking.smugmug.com
http://www.pbase.com/norwegianviking
SD-14 Compendium: http://www.foto.nordjylland.biz/SD14/SD-usertips.htm

 

[Lobalobo]

Well, I am a US Lawyer. And my legal skills are better than my photography skills (or so I hope). So I'll offer a response, which readers should take a grain of salt (as defamation is not my field).

Let's assume these facts (which may or may not be true): The original poster(OP) took a camera he knew not to be ready for review and published (in this forum) a negative review of the camera as if it were the final product. This could be the basis of product disparagement suit, but might not be as a court might dismiss this suit for lack of evidence that the OP intended to harm the brand with his posting. (It would be different, perhaps, if he worked for Canon, say, and posted to increase Canon sales over Sigma sales.)

Product disparagement aside, Sigma might bring a more ordinary tort suit (a suit for remedy when one unjustifiably inflicts injury on another). Here Sigma might argue, if it's true, that the OP took its property and used it without permission in a way that harmed Sigma (posting the photos and commenting negatively about them). The essence of tihs claim would not be the negative review (as in the product disparagement claim) but the prohibited use of its camera. This suit strikes me as plausible particularly if the OP pulled the tape off the card slot as that would indicate that he knew what he was doing was in violation of the terms of use. (The fact that the OP had permission to handle the camera, and behaved badly, if at all, only if he violated terms of that permission might make this a contract breach suit rather than a tort suit, but the label doesn't matter much.)

This said, I think a lawsuit is unlikely, for a variety of reasons including the fact that subsequent posters have made clear here why one should not rely on the OP. But if I were Sigma's lawyer, and if the OP violated the terms of his permission to use the camera by posting and commenting, I would let the OP know that to avoid further legal action he should pull the photos from Flickr and post a clearly worded retraction of his review, one explains he now understands he was not using the final product and that he had no permission to record images or post them. And if I were the OP, I'd pull the photos and post such a retraction immediately, even before being "asked," particularly if I worked in the business.