Skintone link

[Gunter B]

http://www.smugmug.com/help/skin-tone

To all the yellow-whiners:

Have a good look if you think, skintones have to look like pink piglets to be right.

Quote:

"90% of all you need to know is that you can never let the yellow % fall below magenta % on anyone's skin unless you're trying to show sunburn.

Your camera may capture images with less yellow than magenta in skin; unfortunately, they won't print without customers complaining if you choose the True Color option. Nor will magazines accept them for publication."

That pretty much covered what I learned in 30 years of prepress-business.

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Cheers
Günter

http://swiss-landmarks.ch
http://www.pbase.com/ghoerdt

 

[Chunsum J Choi]

Good info.

If this thread goes 150 I'll buy you a pitcher.

Wojciech

;-)

--
C.

http://www.pbase.com/chunsum
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr/chunsum_choi

 

[Thomas Mottl]

that those whiners are all working on graveyards or dealing a lot of with dead and sick ppl. Maybe because of that they do not really know the skin tones of healthy or alive ppl.

So I am sad for them that they are living in a world where they see ppl walking around with skintones like zombies and are not able to recognize the colourful world as it is
Or it is the US american fastfood which make ppl look like that
--
http://www.pbase.com/aroid/
http://www.panodrom.de (QTVR site)

 

[Aaro]

Hi Gunter

I think this whole skintone issue is something really hilarious and absurd when looking people at my vicinity or in TV everyday. Not to mention my own skintone that is out of gamut so to say.

Something that is changing per excersice, eating, sleeping, race, age, gender, makeup etc.

So the snow is white, is it not;-)

Best
Aaro

--
!!! Sorry, I don't use blurr filter in my camera, film or digital.



http://www.lumisoft.fi/gallery

 

[TJ Hanlon]

--
'To me, photography is an art of observation. It's about finding
something interesting in an ordinary place... I've found it has little to
do with the things you see and everything to do with the way you
see them.' - Elliot Erwitt

pbase gallery: http://www.pbase.com/tjhanlon/
Sigma Users Group: http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/tj_hanlon

 

[Thierry Deval]

Thanks Gunter.

Personnally, I'm convinced skin MUST always be somehow yellow.

From http://www.besthealth.com/besthealth/bodyguide/reftext/html/skin_sys_fin.html ; (down the page)

Skin color

Skin color results from the presence of melanin, carotene (yellow to
orange pigment), and underlying blood reflected through skin.
Melanin keeps excessive ultraviolet rays from burning the skin.
Exposure to sunlight causes the skin to produce more melanin, causing
suntan, a temporary change in skin color. Melanin-rich cells continually
move toward the surface, where they are sloughed. Too much sun is
dangerous to skin; it increases the risk of cancer by affecting the
genetic material of cells.

Variety of skin color is caused mainly by the number and distribution of
melanocytes. Darker skin has more melanin that is produced by more
melanocytes. However, the different skin colors among individuals and
races do not reflect different numbers of melanocytes; instead, they
show different kinds and amounts of melanin production by
melanocytes. Oriental skin has a greater amount of carotene in the
stratum corneum, producing a yellowish tinge. Albinism is a condition
where skin does not produce melanin.

So, basically, skin color is given by:

• melanin (dark-brown to black for Eumelanin, or yellow to red for Pheomelanin)
• carotene (yellow to orange)
• blood micro-vessels (red obviously)
• lipids or fats (white to yellow), and there is much of it under the skin

So yes, healthy people should have a somehow yellowish skin tone (red-haired people and albinos apart), in my opinion.

Thierry

 

[NarrBL]

Interesting; and where it comes from.

Maybe we have an idea now what adjustments other cameras make to 'produce skin tones'.

Thanks, Günter,
Clive

http://www.smugmug.com/help/skin-tone

To all the yellow-whiners:
Have a good look if you think, skintones have to look like pink
piglets to be right.

Quote:
"90% of all you need to know is that you can never let the yellow %
fall below magenta % on anyone's skin unless you're trying to show
sunburn.

Your camera may capture images with less yellow than magenta in
skin; unfortunately, they won't print without customers complaining
if you choose the True Color option. Nor will magazines accept them
for publication."

That pretty much covered what I learned in 30 years of
prepress-business.

--
--
--
Cheers
Günter

http://swiss-landmarks.ch
http://www.pbase.com/ghoerdt

 

[richard stone]

http://www.smugmug.com/help/skin-tone

To all the yellow-whiners:
Have a good look if you think, skintones have to look like pink
piglets to be right.

Quote:
"90% of all you need to know is that you can never let the yellow %
fall below magenta % on anyone's skin unless you're trying to show
sunburn.

Your camera may capture images with less yellow than magenta in
skin; unfortunately, they won't print without customers complaining
if you choose the True Color option. Nor will magazines accept them
for publication."

That pretty much covered what I learned in 30 years of
prepress-business.

--
--
--
Cheers
Günter

http://swiss-landmarks.ch
http://www.pbase.com/ghoerdt

Thank you for this link.

At last, after reading all the yellow skin nonsense posted on these forums by various trolls and the uninformed, here is a by the numbers approach that makes the point that yellow is necessary and common for skin tones. The link ought to be posted as the response to each and every one of those misguided and misleading posts. I think I will do that with the next one I see. Apparently resolving skin color is a common problem, with a well known solution.

Richard

 

[Erik Magnuson]

Have a good look if you think, skintones have to look like pink
piglets to be right.

Even on a well lit face, skintones will not be perfectly even. Particularly for very fair skinned, the cheeks are redder than the forehead. So, let's apply this to several recently posted images. If the yellow is more than 20% magenta, we can say it's too yellow. If magenta is higher than yellow, it's too pink.

photogeek's sigma_incandescent:
forehead: M45, Y66. Leg: M34; Y:57
too yellow

photogeeks's nikon incandecent:
forehead: M36, Y34. Leg: M31, Y29
a bit pink

goactive's first portrait, SD14-2 as rendered by the camera jpeg:
forehead: M40, Y60. Chin: M41, Y59. Cheek: M49, Y63
marginal

As converted by goative: Wedding2_17_18AM:
forehead: M37, Y42. Chin: M21, Y38. Cheek: M55, Y68
good

His 5d version: Wedding4_46_32_PM:
forehead: M29, Y26. Chin: M30, Y28. Cheek: M41, Y33
too pink

Geir's Daughter in pink sweater 2007-03-20-56: (Note forehead hidden)
Nose: M39, Y47. Chin: M41, Y47. Cheek: M48, Y42
good (rosy cheeks are expected on a child)

One of Kendall's easter child candids: (hand is in front of chin)
Forehead: M29, Y40. Hand: M24, Y46. Cheek: M46, Y66
too yellow

--
Erik

 

[SandyF]

is it possible to evaluate color in a similar manner in Photoshop Elements ? (I have version3). All I can find is RGB, not CMYK values -- so that smugmug tutorial doesn't apply to PSE3?
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann

 

[CJMax]

Thanks for posting this article from guru of skin tones. Excellent.

It reminds me of an experience that I had, and it had to do with skin tone. I was the administrator at a nursing home in Fort Worth, TX. It was in an area populated mainly by African-Americans and the Residents were representative of the area. Often I overheard comments regarding skin color - most often said in jest, but some obviously prejudiced. No matter. Situation normal. One day a Resident (black skin tone) said something very prejudicial out loud and in front of me about white skinned people. Everyone went into temporary shock and quickly looked at me for my response. I laughed and said that I guessed that I needed to get outside more and start working on my tan. That broke the tension. Then a black skinned toned Resident in a wheelchair took my hand, looked at it, and announced to everyone that I was not white. I still remember her words, "Honey, you ain't white. You pretty pink! Yeah, look at dat. He pretty pink.", and she held my hand up for everyone to see. With that everyone agreed. They had found their way out of an embarrassing situation, and a way to accept me. I was no long a white person. I was pink. Kinda nice I thought. We all laughed and went on our way. So much for the importance of skin tone.

Cliff.

--
http://www.pbase.com/cjmax/galleries

'May the best you've ever seen
Be the worst you'll ever see...'
from A Scots Toast by Allan Ramsay

 

[Schnauzer]

. . . Sigmas capture too little yellow? Excellent argument! Right up there with Laurence's doctrines of observer metamerism and illuminants. Gunter, you're qualified to be anointed as High Priest in the Church of Sigma.

 

[Gunter B]

Have a good look if you think, skintones have to look like pink
piglets to be right.

Even on a well lit face, skintones will not be perfectly even.
Particularly for very fair skinned, the cheeks are redder than the
forehead. So, let's apply this to several recently posted images.
If the yellow is more than 20% magenta, we can say it's too yellow.
If magenta is higher than yellow, it's too pink.

The values are meant as a lead. And of course do they vary. One important point that can break that rules easily is light-color. If light is yellow, the skintone-yellow will easily exceed that 20% rule and still be right. I have never heard of pink natural light though

In case you didn´t notice, that post was meant as a common reply to that ridiculous post of some Matt and his Pet-Troll Schnauzer, who claimed, some of my pics were way too yellow and made it piglet-pink then to "correct" it.

Life is colored, but certainly not normed.

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Cheers
Günter

http://swiss-landmarks.ch
http://www.pbase.com/ghoerdt

 

[Gunter B]

. . . Sigmas capture too little yellow? Excellent argument! Right
up there with Laurence's doctrines of observer metamerism and
illuminants. Gunter, you're qualified to be anointed as High Priest
in the Church of Sigma.

Schnauzer, I am suggesting nothing, I gave a link about well-known and billions of times proofed prepress-knowledge.

Your stupid babble doesn´t change that knowledge.

You are an idiot, that has nothing better to do than trolling around this forum and spreading your most ridiculous nonsense.

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Cheers
Günter

http://swiss-landmarks.ch
http://www.pbase.com/ghoerdt

 

[SandyF]

for 'schnauzer'
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann/462783296/

 

[pollux]

--
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pollux51

 

[Chunsum J Choi]

looks like mix lighting WB to me.

--
C.

http://www.pbase.com/chunsum
http://www.pbase.com/sigmadslr/chunsum_choi

 

[SandyF]

pollux, what are you settings, processing, etc? have you tried starting your SD14 RAW at zero sliders, reset color wheel to center and/or tried the different white balances if this is flash? here's what I'm finding:

a) on an outdoor, natural light photo, ISO400, ISO200s both (all my dancer photos): while the RAW is processing in SPP3, it looks good, then it goes bluish. When I then reset both sliders and color wheel to ZERO, I have essentially the photo I was watching 'develop.' Now I'm processing from that starting point.

b) flash seems to work differently in processing above. My couple flash photos yesterday (granted not people shots, no people to experiment with, just dog and furniture) I found the FLASH white balance was way too yellow. I put SPP white balance to auto and it was good. I also found that processing to auto sliders was good. see http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman/sd14_experiments

c) not sure of 'why' on variations above, but try above. Major differences in processing output. My guess is the 'capture' (photo input) is OK. But we're seeing variations in output from how we're processing. I felt I had SPP2.1 for SD10 under control & understood it, but SPP3 (or SPP2.2 Mac I don't use) is acting differently.
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann

 

[spm]

Sandy,

In element, can you go to the window and then select "info"? that's the window that shows in Smugmug, try it.
S

is it possible to evaluate color in a similar manner in Photoshop
Elements ? (I have version3). All I can find is RGB, not CMYK
values -- so that smugmug tutorial doesn't apply to PSE3?
Best regards, Sandy
[email protected]
http://www.pbase.com/sandyfleischman
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sandyfleischmann

 

[SandyF]

yes, I did, and the only values which show are RGB -- no CMYK per article and this discussion. How do you read & interpret the RGB values?