Should there be another 1" sensor based system?

[iluvphoto]

It's too bad that Nikon abandoned its 1" format in the last decade. Sony doesn't seem to care about anything other than APS-C and FF. It seems like only Chinese phone companies like Xiaomi are using 1" sensors in their phones. MP sells and consumers want it. What I really wish and hope is that a 1" or a 4/3 8K stacked sensor be the basis of any new Halo product. Smaller sensors enable smaller lenses to be developed. Perfect for traveling! Would you buy one?

 

[a_c_skinner]

I cannot see anyone producing a new system. Who might? A new company seems highly unlikely in a falling market and the current ones seem not interested.

What advanage would a smaller sensor give? Look at the Fuji M and E series plus the small M43 cameras and you are probably as small a camera as anyone wants. Some very small full frame cameras are out there too.

We might see a new M43 sensor but for me the future of M43 is far from secure. Panasonic are heavily into full frame and OM seems in the Doldrums.

 

[iluvphoto]

I cannot see anyone producing a new system. Who might? A new company seems highly unlikely in a falling market and the current ones seem not interested.

What advanage would a smaller sensor give? Look at the Fuji M and E series plus the small M43 cameras and you are probably as small a camera as anyone wants. Some very small full frame cameras are out there too.

We might see a new M43 sensor but for me the future of M43 is far from secure. Panasonic are heavily into full frame and OM seems in the Doldrums.

 

[a_c_skinner]

Serious snappers have a very limited appetite for small sensors. Pentax and Nikon both proved that. More casual snappers who don't want to use their phones will tend to buy normalish focal lengths which are small anyhow compared with the camera body.

 

[MoreorLess]

It's too bad that Nikon abandoned its 1" format in the last decade. Sony doesn't seem to care about anything other than APS-C and FF. It seems like only Chinese phone companies like Xiaomi are using 1" sensors in their phones. MP sells and consumers want it. What I really wish and hope is that a 1" or a 4/3 8K stacked sensor be the basis of any new Halo product. Smaller sensors enable smaller lenses to be developed. Perfect for traveling! Would you buy one?

My guess would be the problem is that as you decrease in sensor size you don't decrease enough in cost to justify/market the camera that well? although the Nikon 1 sounds like ti actually did pretty good business in Asia for a few years it probably would have struggled against larger sensors long term.

I always felt the most desirable thing in that system was actually the 70-300mm lens. Marketing wise I guess it struggled because it has almost the same specs as a generic 70-300mm FF lens but performance wise I believe it was significantly better than such lenses which would not perform well on a 1 inch sensor.

Basically you end up with something like a 1 inch superzoom BUT your not having to incorporate the wide/normal range into the lens giving you more reach.

I do actually wonder whether thats something manufactures of such cameras might consider with fixed lens versions? such cameras arguably are appealing very strongly to people shooting wildlife these days so many don't need that coverage? if they do they probably have a phone camera on them to take it. A one inch superzoom which starts at 70-100mm equivalent and goes up to something like 500-600mm.

 

[iluvphoto]

It's too bad that Nikon abandoned its 1" format in the last decade. Sony doesn't seem to care about anything other than APS-C and FF. It seems like only Chinese phone companies like Xiaomi are using 1" sensors in their phones. MP sells and consumers want it. What I really wish and hope is that a 1" or a 4/3 8K stacked sensor be the basis of any new Halo product. Smaller sensors enable smaller lenses to be developed. Perfect for traveling! Would you buy one?

My guess would be the problem is that as you decrease in sensor size you don't decrease enough in cost to justify/market the camera that well? although the Nikon 1 sounds like ti actually did pretty good business in Asia for a few years it probably would have struggled against larger sensors long term.

I always felt the most desirable thing in that system was actually the 70-300mm lens. Marketing wise I guess it struggled because it has almost the same specs as a generic 70-300mm FF lens but performance wise I believe it was significantly better than such lenses which would not perform well on a 1 inch sensor.

Basically you end up with something like a 1 inch superzoom BUT your not having to incorporate the wide/normal range into the lens giving you more reach.

I do actually wonder whether thats something manufactures of such cameras might consider with fixed lens versions? such cameras arguably are appealing very strongly to people shooting wildlife these days so many don't need that coverage? if they do they probably have a phone camera on them to take it. A one inch superzoom which starts at 70-100mm equivalent and goes up to something like 500-600mm.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Nikon used Sony's sensors, at least for their flagship camera. I wonder what things could have been like had Nikon used Sony's sensor from the RX100 VII and made the FF equivalent of the trinity combo (16-35mm, 24-70mm, and 70-200mm)?

 

[Planterz]

I'd like to see one, but I doubt we will.

 

[MoreorLess]

It's too bad that Nikon abandoned its 1" format in the last decade. Sony doesn't seem to care about anything other than APS-C and FF. It seems like only Chinese phone companies like Xiaomi are using 1" sensors in their phones. MP sells and consumers want it. What I really wish and hope is that a 1" or a 4/3 8K stacked sensor be the basis of any new Halo product. Smaller sensors enable smaller lenses to be developed. Perfect for traveling! Would you buy one?

My guess would be the problem is that as you decrease in sensor size you don't decrease enough in cost to justify/market the camera that well? although the Nikon 1 sounds like ti actually did pretty good business in Asia for a few years it probably would have struggled against larger sensors long term.

I always felt the most desirable thing in that system was actually the 70-300mm lens. Marketing wise I guess it struggled because it has almost the same specs as a generic 70-300mm FF lens but performance wise I believe it was significantly better than such lenses which would not perform well on a 1 inch sensor.

Basically you end up with something like a 1 inch superzoom BUT your not having to incorporate the wide/normal range into the lens giving you more reach.

I do actually wonder whether thats something manufactures of such cameras might consider with fixed lens versions? such cameras arguably are appealing very strongly to people shooting wildlife these days so many don't need that coverage? if they do they probably have a phone camera on them to take it. A one inch superzoom which starts at 70-100mm equivalent and goes up to something like 500-600mm.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Nikon used Sony's sensors, at least for their flagship camera. I wonder what things could have been like had Nikon used Sony's sensor from the RX100 VII and made the FF equivalent of the trinity combo (16-35mm, 24-70mm, and 70-200mm)?

For the One system? no I don't think they did although I suspect they probably would have switched to that 20 MP 1 inch sensor if they've carried on with it much longer.

I don't think sensor cost/performance is really the issue though, seems like the One system had decent performance by the end but the overall cost of the system involving the body and interchangeable lenses is always going to be relatively high.

A bit connected to this but I wonder actually whether the Ricoh GXR system may have done better in the 1 inch sensor era? if ontop of the APSC prime lens units you'd also had a 1 inch sensor unit for a normal zoom or a UWA zoom.

 

[iluvphoto]

It's too bad that Nikon abandoned its 1" format in the last decade. Sony doesn't seem to care about anything other than APS-C and FF. It seems like only Chinese phone companies like Xiaomi are using 1" sensors in their phones. MP sells and consumers want it. What I really wish and hope is that a 1" or a 4/3 8K stacked sensor be the basis of any new Halo product. Smaller sensors enable smaller lenses to be developed. Perfect for traveling! Would you buy one?

My guess would be the problem is that as you decrease in sensor size you don't decrease enough in cost to justify/market the camera that well? although the Nikon 1 sounds like ti actually did pretty good business in Asia for a few years it probably would have struggled against larger sensors long term.

I always felt the most desirable thing in that system was actually the 70-300mm lens. Marketing wise I guess it struggled because it has almost the same specs as a generic 70-300mm FF lens but performance wise I believe it was significantly better than such lenses which would not perform well on a 1 inch sensor.

Basically you end up with something like a 1 inch superzoom BUT your not having to incorporate the wide/normal range into the lens giving you more reach.

I do actually wonder whether thats something manufactures of such cameras might consider with fixed lens versions? such cameras arguably are appealing very strongly to people shooting wildlife these days so many don't need that coverage? if they do they probably have a phone camera on them to take it. A one inch superzoom which starts at 70-100mm equivalent and goes up to something like 500-600mm.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Nikon used Sony's sensors, at least for their flagship camera. I wonder what things could have been like had Nikon used Sony's sensor from the RX100 VII and made the FF equivalent of the trinity combo (16-35mm, 24-70mm, and 70-200mm)?

For the One system? no I don't think they did although I suspect they probably would have switched to that 20 MP 1 inch sensor if they've carried on with it much longer.

I don't think sensor cost/performance is really the issue though, seems like the One system had decent performance by the end but the overall cost of the system involving the body and interchangeable lenses is always going to be relatively high.

A bit connected to this but I wonder actually whether the Ricoh GXR system may have done better in the 1 inch sensor era? if ontop of the APSC prime lens units you'd also had a 1 inch sensor unit for a normal zoom or a UWA zoom.

I know there are a lot of what ifs, could of, should of. I do remember the Nikon 1s were fairly expensive for what it offered. Somewhat similar situation with 4/3. The thing is that cameras aren't like iPhones where people upgrade annually. I'm still happily using a decade-old RX10 II. I'm still learning about the camera. Sony makes amazing sensors. I really like their 1" sensors. If only that was used in a Nikon 1.

 

[robert1955]

It's too bad that Nikon abandoned its 1" format in the last decade. Sony doesn't seem to care about anything other than APS-C and FF. It seems like only Chinese phone companies like Xiaomi are using 1" sensors in their phones. MP sells and consumers want it. What I really wish and hope is that a 1" or a 4/3 8K stacked sensor be the basis of any new Halo product. Smaller sensors enable smaller lenses to be developed. Perfect for traveling! Would you buy one?

My guess would be the problem is that as you decrease in sensor size you don't decrease enough in cost to justify/market the camera that well? although the Nikon 1 sounds like ti actually did pretty good business in Asia for a few years it probably would have struggled against larger sensors long term.

I always felt the most desirable thing in that system was actually the 70-300mm lens. Marketing wise I guess it struggled because it has almost the same specs as a generic 70-300mm FF lens but performance wise I believe it was significantly better than such lenses which would not perform well on a 1 inch sensor.

Basically you end up with something like a 1 inch superzoom BUT your not having to incorporate the wide/normal range into the lens giving you more reach.

I do actually wonder whether thats something manufactures of such cameras might consider with fixed lens versions? such cameras arguably are appealing very strongly to people shooting wildlife these days so many don't need that coverage? if they do they probably have a phone camera on them to take it. A one inch superzoom which starts at 70-100mm equivalent and goes up to something like 500-600mm.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Nikon used Sony's sensors, at least for their flagship camera. I wonder what things could have been like had Nikon used Sony's sensor from the RX100 VII and made the FF equivalent of the trinity combo (16-35mm, 24-70mm, and 70-200mm)?

The history of what sensor brand Nikon used is more complicated than that, but I doubt it’s relevant. They just didn’t see a market for small sensored cameras (even DX is limited for them)

 

[Mark B.]

It's too bad that Nikon abandoned its 1" format in the last decade. Sony doesn't seem to care about anything other than APS-C and FF. It seems like only Chinese phone companies like Xiaomi are using 1" sensors in their phones. MP sells and consumers want it. What I really wish and hope is that a 1" or a 4/3 8K stacked sensor be the basis of any new Halo product. Smaller sensors enable smaller lenses to be developed. Perfect for traveling! Would you buy one?

There aren't enough peoople that would buy into it.

 

[iluvphoto]

It's too bad that Nikon abandoned its 1" format in the last decade. Sony doesn't seem to care about anything other than APS-C and FF. It seems like only Chinese phone companies like Xiaomi are using 1" sensors in their phones. MP sells and consumers want it. What I really wish and hope is that a 1" or a 4/3 8K stacked sensor be the basis of any new Halo product. Smaller sensors enable smaller lenses to be developed. Perfect for traveling! Would you buy one?

There aren't enough peoople that would buy into it.

Would you buy one?

Compact cameras were supposed to be dead, but now Gen Zs want to buy them.

 

[Planterz]

I wonder what things could have been like had Nikon used Sony's sensor from the RX100 VII and made the FF equivalent of the trinity combo (16-35mm, 24-70mm, and 70-200mm)?

The J5 sensor is apparently a Sony one. BSI and phase detect. But it was also the last N1 camera.

 

[nikonzednaikonzee]

It's too bad that Nikon abandoned its 1" format in the last decade. Sony doesn't seem to care about anything other than APS-C and FF. It seems like only Chinese phone companies like Xiaomi are using 1" sensors in their phones. MP sells and consumers want it. What I really wish and hope is that a 1" or a 4/3 8K stacked sensor be the basis of any new Halo product. Smaller sensors enable smaller lenses to be developed. Perfect for traveling! Would you buy one?

Isnt that new fuji thing a one inch sensor with a bit shaved off the top?

 

[yardcoyote]

That actually sounds sort of interesting. How hard would it be to hand hold? I just picture the end of that long lightweight plastic lens gyrating wildly.

 

[Mako2011]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Nikon used Sony's sensors, at least for their flagship camera. I wonder what things could have been like had Nikon used Sony's sensor from the RX100 VII and made the FF equivalent of the trinity combo (16-35mm, 24-70mm, and 70-200mm)?

If memory serves...the first few models had Aptina made sensors. Later models, like the J4/J5, were made by Sony though still designed by Nikon. The Sony partnership carried over to other models for a long time...it includes some of the flagship models

 

[ahaslett]

I don't think you understand the physics behind sensor and lens design.

In any case, OEMs make more profit out of lenses than bodies, so having small lenses in a small market segment is not that attractive. Small sizes tend to come with fixed lenses, so interesting to see the Fuji GFX fixed lens launch. If Sony launch an RX1R iii, that will be a sign of their view on the market.

Would you want much smaller than existing offers?


Panasonic 12-32 (would get today as G100D kit or fit to EP7)




Panasonic 35-100mm kit



[ATTACH alt="OM 12-45/4 - absolutely not a "kit" lens but sold as a kit "]3660412[/ATTACH]
OM 12-45/4 - absolutely not a "kit" lens but sold as a kit



View attachment e3aab5113f9b4714b5a6baa645bbd882.jpg
The Olympus 40-150mm R looks big compared to the Panasonic but small next to the 40-150/2.8

The Pro 40-150/4 is only slightly larger than the kit R.


Panasonic 20/1.7

Look at the Sony FE 28-60mm kit lens, which is optically excellent, or the f2.5 primes, or manual primes like the TTArtisan 25/2.

Small sensors have an AF advantage because you have the same light over a smaller area for similar lens sizes (apart from fast ultra-wides), so you can AF in lower light. MFT might be the sweet spot, especially with the QBPDAF array in higher end bodies.

I think that phones occupy the small sensor market very well.

Andrew

--
Infinite are the arguments of mages. Truth is a jewel with many facets. Ursula K LeGuin
Please feel free to edit any images that I post

 

[iluvphoto]

It's too bad that Nikon abandoned its 1" format in the last decade. Sony doesn't seem to care about anything other than APS-C and FF. It seems like only Chinese phone companies like Xiaomi are using 1" sensors in their phones. MP sells and consumers want it. What I really wish and hope is that a 1" or a 4/3 8K stacked sensor be the basis of any new Halo product. Smaller sensors enable smaller lenses to be developed. Perfect for traveling! Would you buy one?

Isnt that new fuji thing a one inch sensor with a bit shaved off the top?

 

[iluvphoto]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Nikon used Sony's sensors, at least for their flagship camera. I wonder what things could have been like had Nikon used Sony's sensor from the RX100 VII and made the FF equivalent of the trinity combo (16-35mm, 24-70mm, and 70-200mm)?

If memory serves...the first few models had Aptina made sensors. Later models, like the J4/J5, were made by Sony though still designed by Nikon. The Sony partnership carried over to other models for a long time...it includes some of the flagship models

 

[Michael Benveniste]

Smaller sensors enable smaller lenses to be developed. Perfect for traveling! Would you buy one?

No. In large part because I built out a Nikon 1 system, found it to be unreliable, and built out an MFT systems to replace it. I still have both, and have no desire to start over again. While I might consider a newer MFT body with PDAF, I'm in no hurry to do so.



As for size, I found that the V1 and V2 were a bit too small for me and ergonomics suffered as a result. Nor, as shown below, with the exception of the wide-angle zoom, is lens size all that different. The Lumix 8-18mm is an f/2.8~4 lens, and the Nikon 6.7~13 is an f/3.5~5.6, which accounts for much of the difference.





I'd rather not reiterate all the ways Nikon 1 was botched, and I have no doubt that a manufacturer could do better in 2025. But the market Nikon targeted for that system has shrunk to nearly zero. For casual online sharing, modern phones are more than adequate. So what would result is a niche product with a price tag to match. At least in the U.S., "smaller is better" is a hard sell, which is part of the reason MFT is struggling. So I just don't see it happening.

--
Light travels at 2.13085531 × 10^14 smoots per fortnight. Catch some today!