several questons for mac users

[John Barone]

Just a few general comments from my recent experience that might help you.

I am a recent mac convert, having bought a 20" iMac about 6 weeks ago, mostly to do my non-professional photo editing and storage for my D70s files, along with general web, email and iLife type stuff. I could not be happier with it!

After doing a lot of research here and visiting my local Apple store several times, I was torn between getting an upgraded 20" or 24" iMac or a Mac Pro with a 23" ACD. I eventually decided to go with the upgraded 20" and ordered from Apple's online store so I could upgrade the RAM to 2 gigs and upgrade the VRAM to 256MB. If you comparison shop, it is actually less expensive to purchase the RAM upgrade through Apple's online store than at a retail store or through any reputable 3rd party I was able to find. I admit I was a bit concerned because my local Apple store did not have Aperture loaded on a 20" iMac, and their 24"model had an upgraded Video card model, so I wasn't sure how the 20" would run Aperture. While I liked Aperture, I thought it was overkill for my needs, but I wanted to be able to run it in case I decided to go that route in the future, and I felt the RAM and VRAM upgrades helped to future proof the machine as much as possible.

i had absolutely no problems with the Apple online ordering process. in fact, my Mac purchasing experience might just be the best customer service experience I've ever had! When you receive your new Mac and set it up, you are in for a genuinely unparalleled user experience. Despite the research I do, i am most often dissappointed with some aspect of my technology purchases. I dare say, I have yet to find a single thing that i dislike about my Mac, other than some limitations in the iLife apps (they are not professional applications after all). From the minute i took it out of the box and turned it on I have been impressed.

I have a net gear wireless G router that I use with my previous Windows PC. Woks perfectly fine with the iMac. No need to buy an Airport base if you already have a wireless router.

After trying iPhoto for a while, I decided to try the Lightroom beta, and at first, was really impressed by it. However, after using it for a while, I became frustrasted with having to jump around from module to module, and some missing features, so decided to download the Aperture Trial and try that too. I'll admit, at first I felt like lightroom was more intuitive, and I found myself having to dive into the Aperture user manuals to figure out how to do things in Aperture that i could figure out intuitively in Lightroom. But when I started to process files side by side in both programs at the same time, image per image, i started to feel that Aperture was a much deeper and evolved program, and grew to like it more and more. Lightroom feels a bit faster on this machine, but Aperture's performance is perfectly acceptable for my needs. Now, I am not processing hundreds or thousands of pics per day like a pro would, more like 100-300 per week, but I feel the performance I saw on the Mac Pro at the store (even with upgraded RAm and Video Card) for more than twice the money was just marginally better. Maybe if I was shooting the larger files of a pro cam, they would feel slower on my 20"iMac. Anyway, the point of this is that a lot of users on this forum feel you NEED a Mac Pro or upgraded 24" iMac to run Aperture, Lightroom and other intensive apps acceptaby, and my experience is that performance of these apps on an upgraded 20" is perfectly acceptable, at least with my 5-6MB RAW files and 8mp files from my wife's Canon P&S.

Good luck with your purchasing decision, and i hope this is helpful to you!

--
John
Life is an experience . . . so experience it!

 

[Nilo Here]

My whole issue is with DPP (I use a Canon 5D), the refresh of the raw file was quite slow on my PC. What I am looking for from iMac with 2G RAM and upgraded graphics card is immediate view of the picture on screen and immediate preview when I make adjustments to the RAW file.

Is this expectation going to be met or do I need to go PowerMac route, which I think is quite overkill for what I want, which is similar to the original OP.

 

[Alpha Doug]

You can buy 2 1Gbyte sticks of RAM from OWC for $200 and replace the RAM yourself. Sure, you have to waste the 512K sticks that came with it, but you saved $375!
--
Only my opinion. It's worth what you paid for it. Your mileage may vary! ;-}
http://www.dougwigton.com/

 

[Alpha Doug]

John,

I agree with virtually everything you say, and I am very happy for you that you are enjoying your Mac so much. I don't know where in the world you are located, and that could make a big difference, but in the U.S., you can buy 2 Gbytes worth of RAM (2 1Gbyte sticks) from on line vendors like OWC, with lifetime warranty, for $200. That is way less than Apple charges, probably by a factor of 2 and you can easily change it out yourself.

I think the only way that a MacPro currently beats the iMac is in internal expandability and upgradeability. The base model of the MacPro has four cores instead of two, and it can have many internal disk drives, up to 16Gbytes of memory, and the video card can be upgraded any time. What you pay extra for is perhaps a longer useful life of the computer since it is adaptable. But it is somewhat overkill for an amateur or high end hobbyist. As part of a photographic business though, it is a wise choice allowing maximum flexibility and longevity.

--
Only my opinion. It's worth what you paid for it. Your mileage may vary! ;-}
http://www.dougwigton.com/

 

[jack1000]

OK, I finally bothered to check US prices. Upgrade from 1GB to 2GB costs $175, not $375. So still slightly more cost-efficient to buy from apple.com.

jack

You can buy 2 1Gbyte sticks of RAM from OWC for $200 and replace
the RAM yourself. Sure, you have to waste the 512K sticks that
came with it, but you saved $375!
--
Only my opinion. It's worth what you paid for it. Your mileage
may vary! ;-}
http://www.dougwigton.com/

 

[John Barone]

I'm in Minnesota, USA. I think the online Apple store sells the 2GB RAM upgrade for about $175, versus the $300 or so they charge at the retail store, so it comes in at or below the $200 price you mentioned. I think I actually paid about $160 with an additional discount I was eligible for through my company (by the way, if you work for a larger company, check to see if you your company participates in a discount program through Apple where you get employee pricing, it saved me about 5% overall).

I very much agree with your comments about the Mac Pro's much better expandability, and that was the main reason I agonized so muh over the decision. In the end, I decided for my non-pro use that the iMac should get me through at least 3 years at half the price of a Mac Pro, at which time I could see how my user experience was going and decide to buy the latest and greatest, versus getting maybe 5-6 years from the Mac Pro. I also have younger children and felt that I would want them to have a PC within the next few years, so if the iMac didn't get me through the 3 years, I could hand it down to them for their much less strenuous use. In the end, I chose the 20" over the 24" because I felt like I'd be throwing away the extra $500 spent (which is mostly for the larger monitor), if I bought a new system within a few years.

If I was a pro and using this pc to generate my livelihood, I would absolutely, unquestionably buy a Mac Pro. Since the OP is also a non-pro, I thought my non-pro perspective would be helpful, but I appreciate you clarifying the distinction for the different needs of those users.

BTW, Alpha Doug, I very much appreciate and enjoy your comments on this forum.

--
John
Life is an experience . . . so experience it!

 

[castnerrm]

John,

Good Point on the 20 vs 24. Im about to make the jump to MAC and was looking at both. Very same situation as you - alot of pictures for family, friends and church activities. Not making any money from it(thank you gift cards sometimes), rather just the enjoyment of sharing.

The iMac20 is eaiser on the bank account and I can get all I want for about $2300 and it will be much faster then my current windows box wich is a p4 2.4 gHZ, 1gb memory and a 64mb video card.

Although I'm fairly new to PSE4 I'm sure that it will fly on the new MAC, as well as all the advantages and happyness I seem to read about with new MAC users.

Thanks for your(and everyone here) input.

Bob

 

[Alpha Doug]

Hey, thanks for the pat on the back! I think your line of reasoning is just perfect for the uses you state. I'm just glad you are having such a good time with it all.

I did not know that the price of the RAM upgrade had dropped. Apple used to charge twice what others were charging for RAM, so the conventional wisdom has been to buy the minimum and upgrade yourself. I think sometimes, also, folks don't realize you can customize the low end units through the Apple store. Like the upgraded video card in the lower end machines.

All I can really say is that I really enjoy working with my Mac. For me, it makes everything so much easier. It's like playing instead of working. And Aperture has completely changed my workflow for large shoots. And it is possible to find a perfectly adequate platform to run it on without breaking the bank.

--
Only my opinion. It's worth what you paid for it. Your mileage may vary! ;-}
http://www.dougwigton.com/

 

[geoduck]

Actually, PSE4 won't fly on your new iMac. It will run, maybe jog but not fly. Being an application coded for the older PPC Mac platform, PSE4 operates on your iMac under Rosetta emulation. All the good functionality will be there, but things are not dazzling. I would think that the next version of PSE will be released as a "universal" binary and that will indeed fly, maybe even zoom.

 

[John Barone]

Bob,

I have absolutely NO buyers remorse. The mac platform just absolutely WORKS. The only fiddly stuff i had to do to switch over was related to configuring my Net Gear Router (I couldn't find the password so had to reset and reconfigure it in order for my imac to logon) and setting up file sharing on my old Win 98 PC so I could transfer files over.

If you want more monitor space than the 20" offers, just hook up your old monitor, or buy a cheap LCD to use as a second monitor. I regularly put safari and user manuals off to the side on my old monitor when working on photos, so I keep the iMac screen uncluttered.

--
Life is an experience . . . so experience it!

 

[John Barone]

Doug,

Coming from where I came from (a 6 yr old Dell PC running Win 98 that was on its last legs), I did not have the ability to even run a lot of the software that is used and debated here and on the pc forums, so I am really a novice at the digital darkroom and photo editing and have a lot to learn. I've never used photoshop or PSE. But even with my limited skills, experience, and volume of photos, I can already see what a huge benefit Aperture provides to the photographer. It may not be perfect, but it's current benefits are phenomenal and the potential is huge! Well worth $300 to me for my casual use, as I value my time. I can only imagine what kind of productivity gains a tool like this would provide to a pro. It is a deep program, so there is a lot to learn, but the interface is very well thought out and capabilities consistently improving. I wonder where Aperture 2.0 and beyond will take us!

--
John
Life is an experience . . . so experience it!

 

[Alpha Doug]

John,

If you have questions about Apertue as you go along, you can ask them on here, or email me offline. I am a n Apple Certified Pro Trainer for Aperture. But even I miss things that the folks on the forum pick up. I'm constantly learning. You're right. It is truly a deep and very proficient program. I recommend highly the official Apple book called "Aperture 1.5" by Ben Long and Orlando Luna. It is laid out as a tutorial using a fictitious commercial photography shoot. Great book to learn with.

I still use Photoshop on some pictures. But I find that I can keep my file size down by doing most of the basic image adjustment in Aperture. We used to go directly into Photoshop, and if we needed to do something like white balance adjustment or contrast improvement, we would use adjustment layers in order to make the changes non-destructive and changeable. Then we would save the file as a .psd or a .tif and the files were huge! Now, I get 98% done in Aperture, without any real boost in files size, and occasionally I take a file over to PS in order to do some localized dodging and burning, or run some filter from nik Color Efex Pro, or nik Sharpener. Then I send it back to Aperture as a version. Really slick.
--
Only my opinion. It's worth what you paid for it. Your mileage may vary! ;-}
http://www.dougwigton.com/

 

[redsox]

I can already see what a huge benefit Aperture provides to the
photographer. It may not be perfect, but it's current benefits
are phenomenal and the potential is huge! Well worth $300 to me
for my casual use,

First I note Alpha Doug's response about price of RAM. I too was thinking that I'd rather have Apple install 2G at $175 than buy my own, so I guess the price is now different than it used to be and it indeed is cost effective for me to customize the RAM upgrade through apple.

I seem to be exactly on John B's wavelength --- I love shooting and processing my image files, shooting almost exclusvely in RAW. So I note the comments about aperture. I too am looking at iMac 20" upgraded 2GRAM and 256MB video card on the 250G HD.

I understand that I can increase HD at a later date if desired, is that correct?

Regarding aperture, I am comfortable with Elements and am reluctant to spend $700 on PSCS3. Does Aperture replace other image processing programs, or is it used more as a supplement for developing RAW. Right now I still export my Lightroom files to PSE for additional 'fiddling,' though maybe I don't need to do that.

ALSO ---- what about word processing? Can I bring my Word files from work (Mac OS X platform) and work on them in iWork06? Are the word processing and spreadsheet programs quality pieces?

ALSO --- what about email. I currently have cable service on PC with Outlook. Will I be able to keep my same email address through the cable ISP? How does email work if I give the Dell to the kids (with internet access) and use the iMac as my primary computer -- Do I need to get a second email address, or will email show up on both machines?

Thanks for all the responses and discussion to my original questions.

Kevin
--

John
Life is an experience . . . so experience it!

--
Redsox
http://www.blueridge.photoshare.co.nz

 

[TraceyS]

I can answer some of these!

Regarding aperture, I am comfortable with Elements and am reluctant
to spend $700 on PSCS3.

Be sure to check to see if you or your kids are eligible for the Academic version - academic superstore is one place to check!

ALSO ---- what about word processing? Can I bring my Word files
from work (Mac OS X platform) and work on them in iWork06? Are the
word processing and spreadsheet programs quality pieces?

iWork has no spreadsheet module in it. That was one of the "hopes" for Macworld that didn't happen. When it does i'm sure it will be "good", just not as mature as XL.

ALSO --- what about email. I currently have cable service on PC
with Outlook. Will I be able to keep my same email address through
the cable ISP? How does email work if I give the Dell to the kids
(with internet access) and use the iMac as my primary computer --
Do I need to get a second email address, or will email show up on
both machines?

Email will show up on both - depending on how you have it set up. You can just turn it off - erase the server settings and such on the Dell. If you want the kids to have access to email - then set up another email at your Cable companies support site (i think i can have 5 with Comcast). It should be easy to do. I would have the Dell shut down when you set up the Mac for Mail. Then you are off an running!

Hope that helps some -
Tracey

 

[Alpha Doug]

The word processor in iWork, Pages, is a great little word processor, and is actually tipped towards being a page layout program. Sort of inDesign junior. It can open and process MS Word files, and save back as MS Word files. But for maximum compatibility between work and home, I would look to buy MS Office for Mac. If someone in your household is a student or teacher, or if you know one, you can buy the educational version for $149.

You should be able to set up your current email on your new computer, or on your old computer, or both if you want to. Probably the fiddly-est thing you will have to do. But it's just as fiddly on XP.

Aperture is sort of LightRoom on steroids. It is mostly the place where you store, catalogue and sort your images, make books, make slideshows, make web galleries, and do all your RAW image basic adjustments. If you need to do something that cannot be done in Aperture, you send the image to Photoshop or Elements.

If you want to step up a level, you can get the educational version of Photoshop for about $268 on the Academic Superstore. Aperture can be bought with a system when you order it for , I believe, $149 as a build to order upgrade.

You can continue to use LightRoom if you like, but soon you will have to pay for it, and it will probably cost about $299. You will also have to get the Mac version of Elements if you want to continue to use it.

--
Only my opinion. It's worth what you paid for it. Your mileage may vary! ;-}
http://www.dougwigton.com/

 

[castnerrm]

Doug,

Is there a Elements version for Mac? I looked at the Adobe site and didnt see a Mac version.

Nic pics of the Canadian Rockies btw.

Bob

 

[redsox]

Is there a Elements version for Mac? I looked at the Adobe site
and didnt see a Mac version.

I'm not positive, but I believe there is Mac version of Elements thru v4, no Mac ver5. --

Redsox
http://www.blueridge.photoshare.co.nz

 

[redsox]

The word processor in iWork, Pages, is a great little word
processor, and is actually tipped towards being a page layout
program.

OK, thanks. I'm not a Word fan so maybe I'll pass on Office for Mac in order to get iWork.

You should be able to set up your current email on your new
computer, or on your old computer, or both if you want to.
Probably the fiddly-est thing you will have to do. But it's just
as fiddly on XP.

I'm a little scared of this since I'm not very adept at fiddling with the way computers or software work.

you can get the educational version
of Photoshop for about $268 on the Academic Superstore.

Do you happen to know if 7th grade counts as a student??? I imagine they mean college.

Aperture can be bought with a system when you order it for , I believe, $149 as a build to order upgrade.

I think it is full price, $299, preinstalled on iMac at apple store.

Thanks for the info Doug.

Kevin

--
Redsox
http://www.blueridge.photoshare.co.nz

 

[John Barone]

My iMac came with 30 day trial versions of both iWorks and MS Office, so I had a chance to play with both. I have been a big Office user at work for years and had no problem moving any files over. It even read some of my old WordPerfect files that were saved as RTFs. I have a laptop at work with Office on it, so this wasn't a really big deal for me, as I do all of my work stuff on it. I've found Pages to be a very nice program, easy to use and well integrated with the rest of the ILife apps. I haven't tried Keynote and it doesn't have a spreadsheet. For example, having no experience with the program, I was able to create a holiday letter using one of the built in newsletter templates, with several short articles incorporating vacation photos, school photos and family event photos from iPhoto, in about 2 hours. I use MS Word a lot, and I am not sure I could have even done this in Word. Anyway, you, too, should have a chance to trial both and see what works for you, before having to commit to purchase either. I will likely buy iWorks '07 when it comes out.

As far as setting up email, I am on Comcast High Speed Internet and they had detailed step by step instructions on the support section of their site to set up my existing email account in Mail. I, too, don't like to deal with this kind of fiddly stuff, and I found it to be no problem.

While I am not any sort of technical person, my work is all done on a Win PC and I need to have pcs to even function, and I enjoy using computers. My Win PC at work is very locked down by IT and is for work, period. What I wanted at home was a PC that could do our personal stuff on: surf the web, email, advanced photo editing, make home movies, create a family web site and blog, manage music, burn CDs and DVDs, store media content, etc. When making your decision, don't overlook the iLife apps. They provide most everything the casual home user wants pre-installed and are very intuitive and easy to learn apps for non-pro users. if you find they don't meet your needs (like iphoto hasn't for me for RAW shooting and advanced editing) there are more professional pro apps available that you can step into.

As far as extra hard drives, you can add external USB or Firewire harddrives. I opted not to upgrade the internal drive from 250 GB to 500GB, because I could almost purchase an external 500 GB for the same price (and I already had a 250GB USB external drive that I used as a backup for my PC. I didn't expect the performance of an external drive to match that of an internal drive, but I have been pleasantly surprised at how well my USB drive performs, and believe a Firewire drive would provide even better performance. Others might know the answer to this, but I think you can daisy chain several firewire drives together and they all appear as separate drives, so your HD expansion potential is pretty significant, you can grow as you need it, and you can port it to a new system by simply unplugging from one and plugging it into another.

If you really compare Apples to Oranges (pun intended), factoring in the software, you will find that the iMac is really a great value.
--
John
Life is an experience . . . so experience it!

 

[John Barone]

Thank you for your kind offer Doug!
--
John
Life is an experience . . . so experience it!