Moving to Mac, storage questions

[ChuckB]

I tend to agree. I just went to the safety deposit box to swap backup drives. I plugged in the one from the box when I got home and it was dead dead dead (a spinner). Could not even be formatted for re-use. How it died in the box I have no idea. It was in an anti-static wrapper. Oy.

So sorry that happened to you Chuck.

No worries, actually. It was one of two backups of the main drive, so no data was lost.

How long did the spinner sit in the safety deposit ?

Over a year. I am not the best guy at keeping off-site backups current.

 

[Zeee]

I tend to agree. I just went to the safety deposit box to swap backup drives. I plugged in the one from the box when I got home and it was dead dead dead (a spinner). Could not even be formatted for re-use. How it died in the box I have no idea. It was in an anti-static wrapper. Oy.

So sorry that happened to you Chuck.

No worries, actually. It was one of two backups of the main drive, so no data was lost.

How long did the spinner sit in the safety deposit ?

Over a year. I am not the best guy at keeping off-site backups current.

I update an extra drive about every six months that lives in our banks safety deposit box.

 

[JRET]

I tend to agree. I just went to the safety deposit box to swap backup drives. I plugged in the one from the box when I got home and it was dead dead dead (a spinner). Could not even be formatted for re-use. How it died in the box I have no idea. It was in an anti-static wrapper. Oy.

So sorry that happened to you Chuck.

No worries, actually. It was one of two backups of the main drive, so no data was lost.

How long did the spinner sit in the safety deposit ?

Over a year. I am not the best guy at keeping off-site backups current.

I update an extra drive about every six months that lives in our banks safety deposit box.

Bank safety deposit box has been my strategy for several years ... until recently. I was exchanging a 14TB drive monthly until a few things happened.

• My bank increased the annual fee from $40 to $130 - big ouch.
• My bank began a policy of requiring appointments to access safety deposit boxes.
• And, under certain extenuating circumstances, access to my box could be denied or delayed a considerable time - i.e. due to banking regulations & things I don't understand.

Enough negative vibes led me to cancel rental on the bank box. I'm currently searching for other options including cloud storage. All of my photos (raw & jpeg) are currently backed up to my Amazon account's "free" unlimited storage. The interface is clunky but being free, I endure it. Unfortunately, it includes photos only, no other files. I'm currently trying one of the other leading cloud storage services ... interface is okay, but terribly slow on their end so may ultimately not be a good solution. If my calculations are halfway correct, it will take close to 150 days to complete the first backup. Not good.

I'm also looking at fire/water resistant safes. And my son lives nearby - might be a good solution for off site.

Local, quick access backups include Time Machine on all Apple devices plus a daily backup of everything to a spinner HD in a Thunderbolt enclosure attached to the Mac Studio. Ample backups but off site is currently the weak spot.

 

[NicholasD]

I tend to agree. I just went to the safety deposit box to swap backup drives. I plugged in the one from the box when I got home and it was dead dead dead (a spinner). Could not even be formatted for re-use. How it died in the box I have no idea. It was in an anti-static wrapper. Oy.

So sorry that happened to you Chuck.

No worries, actually. It was one of two backups of the main drive, so no data was lost.

How long did the spinner sit in the safety deposit ?

Over a year. I am not the best guy at keeping off-site backups current.

I update an extra drive about every six months that lives in our banks safety deposit box.

Bank safety deposit box has been my strategy for several years ... until recently. I was exchanging a 14TB drive monthly until a few things happened.

• My bank increased the annual fee from $40 to $130 - big ouch.
• My bank began a policy of requiring appointments to access safety deposit boxes.
• And, under certain extenuating circumstances, access to my box could be denied or delayed a considerable time - i.e. due to banking regulations & things I don't understand.

My offsite backup resides in a safety deposit box as well. Gets switched out periodically. In the 'you can't plan for every contingency dept', access to the safety deposit box (and the entire branch bank) was shutdown during the early days of the covid lockdown. As an enthusiast photographer, it was more of an inconvenience than anything else. But if we needed an original of a birth certificate or a life insurance policy, it would have been a different story.

Enough negative vibes led me to cancel rental on the bank box. I'm currently searching for other options including cloud storage. All of my photos (raw & jpeg) are currently backed up to my Amazon account's "free" unlimited storage. The interface is clunky but being free, I endure it. Unfortunately, it includes photos only, no other files. I'm currently trying one of the other leading cloud storage services ... interface is okay, but terribly slow on their end so may ultimately not be a good solution. If my calculations are halfway correct, it will take close to 150 days to complete the first backup. Not good.

I'm also looking at fire/water resistant safes. And my son lives nearby - might be a good solution for off site.

Local, quick access backups include Time Machine on all Apple devices plus a daily backup of everything to a spinner HD in a Thunderbolt enclosure attached to the Mac Studio. Ample backups but off site is currently the weak spot.

 

[lumigraphics]

I tend to agree. I just went to the safety deposit box to swap backup drives. I plugged in the one from the box when I got home and it was dead dead dead (a spinner). Could not even be formatted for re-use. How it died in the box I have no idea. It was in an anti-static wrapper. Oy.

So sorry that happened to you Chuck.

No worries, actually. It was one of two backups of the main drive, so no data was lost.

How long did the spinner sit in the safety deposit ?

Over a year. I am not the best guy at keeping off-site backups current.

I update an extra drive about every six months that lives in our banks safety deposit box.

Bank safety deposit box has been my strategy for several years ... until recently. I was exchanging a 14TB drive monthly until a few things happened.

• My bank increased the annual fee from $40 to $130 - big ouch.
• My bank began a policy of requiring appointments to access safety deposit boxes.
• And, under certain extenuating circumstances, access to my box could be denied or delayed a considerable time - i.e. due to banking regulations & things I don't understand.

Enough negative vibes led me to cancel rental on the bank box. I'm currently searching for other options including cloud storage. All of my photos (raw & jpeg) are currently backed up to my Amazon account's "free" unlimited storage. The interface is clunky but being free, I endure it. Unfortunately, it includes photos only, no other files. I'm currently trying one of the other leading cloud storage services ... interface is okay, but terribly slow on their end so may ultimately not be a good solution. If my calculations are halfway correct, it will take close to 150 days to complete the first backup. Not good.

I'm also looking at fire/water resistant safes. And my son lives nearby - might be a good solution for off site.

Local, quick access backups include Time Machine on all Apple devices plus a daily backup of everything to a spinner HD in a Thunderbolt enclosure attached to the Mac Studio. Ample backups but off site is currently the weak spot.

I keep backup drives at my mom's house, in a different city. Free, easy to access, pretty much safe.

 

[lightandaprayer]

JRET wrote: Bank safety deposit box has been my strategy for several years ... until recently. I was exchanging a 14TB drive monthly until a few things happened.

• My bank increased the annual fee from $40 to $130 - big ouch.
• My bank began a policy of requiring appointments to access safety deposit boxes.
• And, under certain extenuating circumstances, access to my box could be denied or delayed a considerable time - i.e. due to banking regulations & things I don't understand.

Enough negative vibes led me to cancel rental on the bank box. I'm currently searching for other options including cloud storage. All of my photos (raw & jpeg) are currently backed up to my Amazon account's "free" unlimited storage. The interface is clunky but being free, I endure it. Unfortunately, it includes photos only, no other files. I'm currently trying one of the other leading cloud storage services ... interface is okay, but terribly slow on their end so may ultimately not be a good solution. If my calculations are halfway correct, it will take close to 150 days to complete the first backup. Not good.

I'm also looking at fire/water resistant safes. And my son lives nearby - might be a good solution for off site.

Every option you have mentioned has negative aspects. . . But I'm only going to address the commercial Cloud service.

You don't say which Cloud service you are using (why the mystery?) so I am going to use Backblaze as an example.

I have a basic Spectrum broadband account with a very slow max 10Mbps upload speed. Using an average of 8Mbps, a 14TB upload would take far less time than 150 days (more or less half, depending. . .) with the Backblaze software configured for maximum throughput and the Mac running 24/7. (I'm assuming that amount of data because that's the only data amount I found in your post.) So what's up?

There are various technical reasons why upload speeds are slower than hoped for and it isn't always the limits imposed by a Cloud service. There are faster Cloud options than Backblaze but you are going to pay more for the extra speed and/or physical seeding options. They may also be less user-friendly than Backblaze.

If you want to learn more about the issue (with Backblaze as the focus) this Reddit discussion may be enlightening: "Unlimited upload speed"? Is that a joke!?

On the other hand, what's the rush? If you have data that is more important than all the rest, configure the seed so that data is uploaded first. Once the initial seed is over, the upload speed shouldn't be an issue unless you are regularly producing a very large amount of data and then a consumer-oriented Backblaze account probaby isn't for you.

The features of Backblaze that make it suitable for me are the automatic versioned backups that mimic the Time Machine but that is better in some ways (and more reliable IMO.) I'm not uploading huge amounts of data. I have redundant local backups which serve me well since Backblaze is my data disaster insurance i.e. a local backup issue, fire, theft, etc.

Nothing is perfect and everyone's needs are different, which is why there is competition for our Cloud backup business.

 

[JRET]

JRET wrote: Bank safety deposit box has been my strategy for several years ... until recently. I was exchanging a 14TB drive monthly until a few things happened.

• My bank increased the annual fee from $40 to $130 - big ouch.
• My bank began a policy of requiring appointments to access safety deposit boxes.
• And, under certain extenuating circumstances, access to my box could be denied or delayed a considerable time - i.e. due to banking regulations & things I don't understand.

Enough negative vibes led me to cancel rental on the bank box. I'm currently searching for other options including cloud storage. All of my photos (raw & jpeg) are currently backed up to my Amazon account's "free" unlimited storage. The interface is clunky but being free, I endure it. Unfortunately, it includes photos only, no other files. I'm currently trying one of the other leading cloud storage services ... interface is okay, but terribly slow on their end so may ultimately not be a good solution. If my calculations are halfway correct, it will take close to 150 days to complete the first backup. Not good.

I'm also looking at fire/water resistant safes. And my son lives nearby - might be a good solution for off site.

Every option you have mentioned has negative aspects. . . But I'm only going to address the commercial Cloud service.

You don't say which Cloud service you are using (why the mystery?) so I am going to use Backblaze as an example.

I have a basic Spectrum broadband account with a very slow max 10Mbps upload speed. Using an average of 8Mbps, a 14TB upload would take far less time than 150 days (more or less half, depending. . .) with the Backblaze software configured for maximum throughput and the Mac running 24/7. (I'm assuming that amount of data because that's the only data amount I found in your post.) So what's up?

There are various technical reasons why upload speeds are slower than hoped for and it isn't always the limits imposed by a Cloud service. There are faster Cloud options than Backblaze but you are going to pay more for the extra speed and/or physical seeding options. They may also be less user-friendly than Backblaze.

If you want to learn more about the issue (with Backblaze as the focus) this Reddit discussion may be enlightening: "Unlimited upload speed"? Is that a joke!?

On the other hand, what's the rush? If you have data that is more important than all the rest, configure the seed so that data is uploaded first. Once the initial seed is over, the upload speed shouldn't be an issue unless you are regularly producing a very large amount of data and then a consumer-oriented Backblaze account probaby isn't for you.

The features of Backblaze that make it suitable for me are the automatic versioned backups that mimic the Time Machine but that is better in some ways (and more reliable IMO.) I'm not uploading huge amounts of data. I have redundant local backups which serve me well since Backblaze is my data disaster insurance i.e. a local backup issue, fire, theft, etc.

Nothing is perfect and everyone's needs are different, which is why there is competition for our Cloud backup business.

It's Carbonite ... and I probably have unfair unexpectations regarding speed and such. Your reply is most helpful and I'm revisiting (restarting) the backup to see how it goes. I should give BackBlaze a closer look as well. Thanks for your insights.

 

[lightandaprayer]

JRET wrote: It's Carbonite ... and I probably have unfair unexpectations regarding speed and such. Your reply is most helpful and I'm revisiting (restarting) the backup to see how it goes. I should give BackBlaze a closer look as well. Thanks for your insights.

It's very difficult to know what to expect because data transfer speed info from ISPs and Cloud services can be misleading or difficult to obtain. Add-in all of the possible variables starting with our computers, LANs (our household WiFi/Ethernet network) and WANs (ISPs, Internet, etc.) to the Cloud services. . . Well, it's a proverbial jungle out there.

Here are a few suggestions/resources that you may find helpful when researching your options. It will take some time and effort but it's worth it in the long-run. (No one enjoys switching Cloud providers after uploading terabytes of data but at least you already have an offsite backup while seeding a new one. ;-) )

Take Control of Backing Up Your Mac: The Online Appendixes The link is for online data backup services; there are other sections for backup software and hardware. Prices, features and other info are listed. Kindly note that while the appendices are regularly updated, features and prices can change at any time, so it is important to double-check things that are important to you on the service provider's website.

For example, the Backblaze prices changed last October but the old ones are still listed. The annual cost per computer is now $99 and the default version history retention period has increased from 30-days to one-year. (Unlimited version retention is available at a nominal extra cost.) I've contacted the author/publisher Joe Kissell about the discrepancy.

If you need assistance regarding what the features offer, scroll down the webpage to Feature Explanations for This Tab.

Apparently, Carbonite does not offer versioning (retention of edited or deleted files) to Mac users. This is something that many people want even though backup software such as Time Machine has it. I like it because I do not use Time Machine or other versioning software for my local backups. Again, be sure to check with Carbonite if having it is important to you.

Other features such as Compression, Delta Encoding and Deduplication affect the size and speed of data backups. Delta Encoding is most helpful after data is backed up for the first time and not just the initial seed. Deduplication can significantly reduce the amount of storage space required and considerably speed-up backups.

According to the appendix, Backblaze uses all three but Carbonite does not offer deduplication. Based on my limited research, Carbonite claims to provide client (user computer) and server-based deduplication.

But with Carbonite's emphasis on Windows, it may be that the former or both may not be available to Mac users. It would explain why uploads are slower. But this subject requires more looking-into. . . To be sure, Carbonite is very popular but it certainly has its detractors as well.

Which leads me to suggesting doing Startpage (Google) searches using terms such as "Cloud-service-name here issues.) It often turns up all kind of sources and I recommend scanning the titles past the first page of hits.

Various online forums are worth perusing/searching and those (like DPR) that allow Google spiders access will show up when using Startpage/Google. In my experience Reddit is another helpful resource, keeping in mind that subReddits vary greatly in reliability LOL. You can search many subReddits without creating a free account and joining. But I ultimately joined because it's quick and painless, it's not a source of spam & I even joined some groups.

DataHoarder and other subReddits (including those sponsored by companies) can be very useful in tracking down the Cloud and other computer services providers that are worthy of receiving your hard-earned cash.

 

[JRET]

JRET wrote: It's Carbonite ... and I probably have unfair unexpectations regarding speed and such. Your reply is most helpful and I'm revisiting (restarting) the backup to see how it goes. I should give BackBlaze a closer look as well. Thanks for your insights.

It's very difficult to know what to expect because data transfer speed info from ISPs and Cloud services can be misleading or difficult to obtain. Add-in all of the possible variables starting with our computers, LANs (our household WiFi/Ethernet network) and WANs (ISPs, Internet, etc.) to the Cloud services. . . Well, it's a proverbial jungle out there.

Here are a few suggestions/resources that you may find helpful when researching your options. It will take some time and effort but it's worth it in the long-run. (No one enjoys switching Cloud providers after uploading terabytes of data but at least you already have an offsite backup while seeding a new one. ;-) )

Take Control of Backing Up Your Mac: The Online Appendixes The link is for online data backup services; there are other sections for backup software and hardware. Prices, features and other info are listed. Kindly note that while the appendices are regularly updated, features and prices can change at any time, so it is important to double-check things that are important to you on the service provider's website.

For example, the Backblaze prices changed last October but the old ones are still listed. The annual cost per computer is now $99 and the default version history retention period has increased from 30-days to one-year. (Unlimited version retention is available at a nominal extra cost.) I've contacted the author/publisher Joe Kissell about the discrepancy.

If you need assistance regarding what the features offer, scroll down the webpage to Feature Explanations for This Tab.

Apparently, Carbonite does not offer versioning (retention of edited or deleted files) to Mac users. This is something that many people want even though backup software such as Time Machine has it. I like it because I do not use Time Machine or other versioning software for my local backups. Again, be sure to check with Carbonite if having it is important to you.

Other features such as Compression, Delta Encoding and Deduplication affect the size and speed of data backups. Delta Encoding is most helpful after data is backed up for the first time and not just the initial seed. Deduplication can significantly reduce the amount of storage space required and considerably speed-up backups.

According to the appendix, Backblaze uses all three but Carbonite does not offer deduplication. Based on my limited research, Carbonite claims to provide client (user computer) and server-based deduplication.

But with Carbonite's emphasis on Windows, it may be that the former or both may not be available to Mac users. It would explain why uploads are slower. But this subject requires more looking-into. . . To be sure, Carbonite is very popular but it certainly has its detractors as well.

Which leads me to suggesting doing Startpage (Google) searches using terms such as "Cloud-service-name here issues.) It often turns up all kind of sources and I recommend scanning the titles past the first page of hits.

Various online forums are worth perusing/searching and those (like DPR) that allow Google spiders access will show up when using Startpage/Google. In my experience Reddit is another helpful resource, keeping in mind that subReddits vary greatly in reliability LOL. You can search many subReddits without creating a free account and joining. But I ultimately joined because it's quick and painless, it's not a source of spam & I even joined some groups.

DataHoarder and other subReddits (including those sponsored by companies) can be very useful in tracking down the Cloud and other computer services providers that are worthy of receiving your hard-earned cash.

Thank you for taking the time to post a detailed explanation that will be very helpful as I continue my search for the best solution. I truly appreciate your help.

 

[lightandaprayer]

Thank you for taking the time to post a detailed explanation that will be very helpful as I continue my search for the best solution. I truly appreciate your help.

You're welcome. I've been doing research for school/work/hobbies most of my life and fortunately I enjoying doing it. Plus it's a part of my own "continuing education. . ." ;-)

 

[Montanawildlives]

Thanks everyone for your responses. I think my main takeaway is that I probably don't need to worry about getting Uber-fast storage. For editing photos from an external drive, it seems that I probably would not notice a difference between a 3000 MB/s drive and a 1000 MB/s drive or even a 500 MB/s drive. I don't think I'll need more ports--just running two monitors and external drives; likely not more than 2, that will be all TB4 out the back (even one spare there if I use HDMI for one monitor), plus 2 USB 3.2's on the front.

While I do like the look of the Studio-matched look, I guess there are better ways to spend $300. I'll probably just go with a Samsung t7 or something like that to be permanently attached to a rear TB4, and then maybe a large HDD for data (photos and docs) backup.

Several people have commented about backups too, and weren't mentioning Time Machine much. Is there something I am missing about it? Is Chronosync the same or better?

I plan to get the 2TB iCloud backup for my data (1 TB of photos, 40 GB of other stuff) and use Time Machine on a large external HDD (maybe 4TB) to backup the internal SSD.

Once in a while I will backup everything on an additional drive (probably 4TB, nothing too fast).

So, I will have my data on a (1) T7 (for example) and in (2) iCloud. I will have my (1) internal SSD backed up to the (2) Time Machine HDD. Then, the third backup for both data and internal SSD will be an occasional (hopefully not too occasional) copy to the additional 4TB drive. Make sense?

Thanks again.

 

[NicholasD]

Thanks everyone for your responses. I think my main takeaway is that I probably don't need to worry about getting Uber-fast storage. For editing photos from an external drive, it seems that I probably would not notice a difference between a 3000 MB/s drive and a 1000 MB/s drive or even a 500 MB/s drive. I don't think I'll need more ports--just running two monitors and external drives; likely not more than 2, that will be all TB4 out the back (even one spare there if I use HDMI for one monitor), plus 2 USB 3.2's on the front.

While I do like the look of the Studio-matched look, I guess there are better ways to spend $300. I'll probably just go with a Samsung t7 or something like that to be permanently attached to a rear TB4, and then maybe a large HDD for data (photos and docs) backup.

Several people have commented about backups too, and weren't mentioning Time Machine much. Is there something I am missing about it? Is Chronosync the same or better?

I don't think you're missing anything about Time Machine. It's a freebie so why not take advantage of it? @lightandprayer referenced a good Take Control reference for backups. That's part of a book Take Control of Backing Up your Mac that someone recommended to me and one I found very helpful - great overview w/ easily understood information that can be deployed. Updated frequently and the ebook is not expensive (and goes on sale at regular intervals), Anyway, the author goes into some detail when Time Machine may not be the best answer. But in general and for most use cases, it's a no brainer. The most important thing, obviously, is to have some form of backup.

I plan to get the 2TB iCloud backup for my data (1 TB of photos, 40 GB of other stuff) and use Time Machine on a large external HDD (maybe 4TB) to backup the internal SSD.

Once in a while I will backup everything on an additional drive (probably 4TB, nothing too fast).

So, I will have my data on a (1) T7 (for example) and in (2) iCloud. I will have my (1) internal SSD backed up to the (2) Time Machine HDD. Then, the third backup for both data and internal SSD will be an occasional (hopefully not too occasional) copy to the additional 4TB drive. Make sense?

Thanks again.

 

[lightandaprayer]

I don't think you're missing anything about Time Machine. It's a freebie so why not take advantage of it? @lightandprayer referenced a good Take Control reference for backups. That's part of a book Take Control of Backing Up your Mac that someone recommended to me and one I found very helpful - great overview w/ easily understood information that can be deployed. Updated frequently and the ebook is not expensive (and goes on sale at regular intervals), Anyway, the author goes into some detail when Time Machine may not be the best answer. But in general and for most use cases, it's a no brainer. The most important thing, obviously, is to have some form of backup.

On March 14 Take Control Books had a 50% discount sale to celebrate Pi Day . They also have Black Friday and Thanksgiving sales that provide 50% discounts plus spur of the moment sales for around 1/3 off. Take Control Books can be followed on Facebook and they also have an RSS feed .

Any day of the week customers can use the promo code PHOTOACTIVE to receive a 30% discount off regular prices, making a $14.99 ebook $10.49. (The code has been available for years and it just keeps working.)

After the purchase of an ebook, all future major edition updates are 1/3-1/2 off the regular price (even if you initially received a discount). Incremental updates are free. When incremental updates drop customers receive an email announcement with a direct download link, so you don't even need to visit the website. This system means the information in the ebooks is as fresh as possible. And the PDF and EPUB format files have no Digital Rights Management (DRM) because the publisher trusts customers will do the right thing:

Do you use copy protection on your ebooks?

No. Our ebooks do not use copy protection because it makes life harder for everyone. So we ask a favor of our readers. If you want to share your copy of an ebook you’ve bought with a friend, please do so as you would with a physical book, meaning that if your friend uses it regularly, they should buy a copy. (From the TCB FAQ.)

BTW, Joe Kissell replied to my email regarding the Backblaze pricing change ("Not sure how I missed that. . .") to let me know that the Online Services appendix was updated on 4/19/24.

 

[joger]

What am I missing? Any other advice?

Thanks!

The Mac studio offers 10 GbE - get a NAS like mine and you're done forever with storage.

The beauty about NAS devices are:

• with 10 Gbit they are extremely fast and reliable and offer more than enough storage on a budget
• you can access the data from everywhere
• you can run additional services on it
• it does not need to be where your computer is provided you have a fast switch - 10 Gbit can translate into 1 .. 1.2 GB/second - that's more than enough
• In the future you can upgrade to 25 Gbit - which should utilize the speed totally

I've been using this setup now for a decade with no regret - I have two NAS with each 10 Gbit and they run perfectly with LRC and all my other activities and I can access the data via Internet without the need of keeping may desktop MAC always on

Let me know if case you'll have any questions.

 

[Tord S Eriksson]

Thank you for taking the time to post a detailed explanation that will be very helpful as I continue my search for the best solution. I truly appreciate your help.

You're welcome. I've been doing research for school/work/hobbies most of my life and fortunately I enjoying doing it. Plus it's a part of my own "continuing education. . ." ;-)

I am very grateful for the detailed information you've given us for free!

I've learned tons!