S2 sharpness not all that...

[Dazzle]

Hi David,

My results are without the Hard setting but using the STD setting
for sharpness always sharp as a razor so I think there must be
something wrong with the alignement of your ccd, couldn't you do
some tests on that (some suggested here in other threads how to do
that). Are you using top quality lenses, some lenses that gives
very good results with my S1 are absolutely not good enough for
using with the S2. And another thing that changed very much versus
the S1 is the sensitivity to camera shake.

--
With very kind regards,

Dirk
http://www.pbase.com/dievee
Pbase supporter

Hi Dirk

Thanks for your reply. I really am fed-up with the camera. If what you say is correct, why produce a camera that is more prone to camera shake? The shot I had in mind was actually taken using a tripod and the lens used was a 28-105mm 3.5-4.5D AF Nikkor. ISO 100 1/30th f4.5. The shot is usable with unsharp mask but I would have expected it to be pin sharp! I will do some tests as you recommend.

Fuji tell me to use HARD setting and to add 150% 2 and 2. I think there may be a problem with a batch of these S2's. What do you think?

Kind regards

David

 

[Dirk Vermeirre]

Hi Dirk

Thanks for your reply. I really am fed-up with the camera. If what
you say is correct, why produce a camera that is more prone to
camera shake? The shot I had in mind was actually taken using a
tripod and the lens used was a 28-105mm 3.5-4.5D AF Nikkor. ISO 100
1/30th f4.5. The shot is usable with unsharp mask but I would have
expected it to be pin sharp! I will do some tests as you recommend.

Fuji tell me to use HARD setting and to add 150% 2 and 2. I think
there may be a problem with a batch of these S2's. What do you
think?
Kind regards

David

Hi David,

No thanks and they didn't make it more prone to camera shake but I think that it's faster visible at this very high resolution and detail, and registrating so much info on such a small ccd must happen in the best conditions, I think that this could be the reason.

One of my friends has the 28-105 and I tested it but I was not satisfied from the sharpness, not as good as from my other lenses, with the ones I use I use them with the STD setting and very rarely has to do some unsharpening. And yes as I see the threads here I think that there are Fuji's with a problem. All the very best.
--
With very kind regards,

Dirk
http://www.pbase.com/dievee
Pbase supporter

 

[Dazzle]

Hi David,

No thanks and they didn't make it more prone to camera shake but I
think that it's faster visible at this very high resolution and
detail, and registrating so much info on such a small ccd must
happen in the best conditions, I think that this could be the
reason.
One of my friends has the 28-105 and I tested it but I was not
satisfied from the sharpness, not as good as from my other lenses,
with the ones I use I use them with the STD setting and very rarely
has to do some unsharpening. And yes as I see the threads here I
think that there are Fuji's with a problem. All the very best.
--
With very kind regards,

Dirk
http://www.pbase.com/dievee
Pbase supporter

Dirk

I have tested the camera today and have found out that there is indeed a focus issue.

I photographed my wife standing directly infront of a brick wall, making sure that the central focus brackets were over her face completely. The result was that the camera focused on the wall and my wife was out of focus!

Have you heard anything similar with anyone elses S2?

Kind regards

David

 

[Ken Porter]

Dirk

I have tested the camera today and have found out that there is
indeed a focus issue.

I photographed my wife standing directly infront of a brick wall,
making sure that the central focus brackets were over her face
completely. The result was that the camera focused on the wall and
my wife was out of focus!

Have you heard anything similar with anyone elses S2?

Kind regards

David

David,

Just ask me if me if I'm surprised. I've had the same results, where a background that is right behind the subject's head is actually sharper than their head. As noted in my first post (about halfway up the list), I sent my S2 to Fuji USA to be evaluated. Came back with a note: "everything in spec". I sent images on a CD for their evaluation with the camera. I don't think they get it!

I may call Rich Vargas again (800-659-3854 x3243) and ask for suggestions, directly from Fuji.

On two sessions today, most images were really sharp (all in-studio), though I had to delete a couple of images from the engagement session, due to being soft in the eyes. There's not a concensus on how to set the camera for sharpest and most consistent focusing.

Wish us all well.....

Ken Porter
Lubbock, TX

 

[robinchee]

As to the focusing, my experience is that it is inconsistent at the wider side around the 24-35mm region. Try this: put the camera on a tripod and focus on something with lots of contrast. Note the focusing distance scale. Tap the shutter release button again and see whether the focusing distance scale moves or registers the same distance. On three of my lens (all Nikon - 24-85f2.8/4, 24-85AFS and 28-105mm) at the wide angle side its tends to hunt, thus giving inconsistent focusing. Putting these three lenses on a F100 shows less or no such problem.

As to what causes the problem is really beyond me. It could be a focusing problem design with the F80 module or its faulty. Either way, they could not tell and need to send it back to Japan. But as they did not have a loan unit for me, I have to wait. Once the loan unit is available it will be sent back to see whether its in specifications.

In the meantime what I do is to make sure I shot 2-3 shoots of important shots and also close down the aperture (also up the ISO if necessary). This seems to be at least help for the time being. Most of the shoots affected seem to be group shots (wide angle), so its not a problem to do so. Those in the telephone region don't seem to be affected that much.

Also, setting the sharpening on the S2 to 'Hard' and later doing edge sharpening in PS does help alot.

I'm also trying to determine whether the D100 and F80 people encounter focusing problems (mainly hunting). Its may be an inherent F80 focusing design problem. In which case, that may mean that any camera based on F80 is a real lemon. So we may have no choice but to fork out extra money to buy a digital camera with a REAL focusing systems eg. Nikon D1x, Canon 1D etc. Its extremely disappointing that there are just 2 segments of the market those based on low end focusing modules like the F80 ... and those high end ones based on F5/EOS1 .. but nothing that uses something in between like the F100.

 

[Doug Jones]

I would be interested to know what focus mode the people who are having focus problems are using. The ONLY time I have had a focus problem is when I have accidentally shifted the focus area rectangle and haven't noticed it. I nearly always use single shot focus and only use continuous focus and/or dynamic area focus for rapidly moving action (and not always then). I also turn off closest subject priority. Normally my technique is to aim the focus square at or near the required "focus object" generally aiming for an "edge" if required, lock the focus with a half press, reframe and take the shot. Also, all but one of my lenses are f2.8 or better which definitely helps focus accuracy and speed. A shot where the background is in focus but the nearer subject isn't is always because I have forgotten to lock the direction button and accidentally shifted the focus rectangle to cover the distant background. Just my experience and I am more than happy with my S2's focussing ability. The only time I get a hunt is when the focus rectangle is aimed at a something with flat colour and no contrasting edges, and with single shot focussing the S2 won't fire if it doesn't have a focus lock anyway.
--
Doug Jones
Canberra
http://www.panamagic.com.au

As to the focusing, my experience is that it is inconsistent at the
wider side around the 24-35mm region. Try this: put the camera on
a tripod and focus on something with lots of contrast. Note the
focusing distance scale. Tap the shutter release button again and
see whether the focusing distance scale moves or registers the same
distance. On three of my lens (all Nikon - 24-85f2.8/4, 24-85AFS
and 28-105mm) at the wide angle side its tends to hunt, thus giving
inconsistent focusing. Putting these three lenses on a F100 shows
less or no such problem.

As to what causes the problem is really beyond me. It could be a
focusing problem design with the F80 module or its faulty. Either
way, they could not tell and need to send it back to Japan. But as
they did not have a loan unit for me, I have to wait. Once the
loan unit is available it will be sent back to see whether its in
specifications.

In the meantime what I do is to make sure I shot 2-3 shoots of
important shots and also close down the aperture (also up the ISO
if necessary). This seems to be at least help for the time being.
Most of the shoots affected seem to be group shots (wide angle), so
its not a problem to do so. Those in the telephone region don't
seem to be affected that much.

Also, setting the sharpening on the S2 to 'Hard' and later doing
edge sharpening in PS does help alot.

I'm also trying to determine whether the D100 and F80 people
encounter focusing problems (mainly hunting). Its may be an
inherent F80 focusing design problem. In which case, that may mean
that any camera based on F80 is a real lemon. So we may have no
choice but to fork out extra money to buy a digital camera with a
REAL focusing systems eg. Nikon D1x, Canon 1D etc. Its extremely
disappointing that there are just 2 segments of the market those
based on low end focusing modules like the F80 ... and those high
end ones based on F5/EOS1 .. but nothing that uses something in
between like the F100.

 

[Dazzle]

Hi Doug

I use single AF focus mode with closest subject priority turned to OFF and can confirm that I haven't shifted the focus. The central focus brackets have been directly over my subjects face and it focuses on the wall behind. I did think that this could be due to lack of contrast in the subjects face, but studio tests shooting cereal boxes has proved it isn't due to lack of contrast.

I have tested two S2's and with my 28-105mm f3.5-4.5 Nikkor lens set to 74mm both camera's focused on the wrong box! Just to make sure it wasn't the lens I then used a 28-70mm Sigma f2.8 and at 70mm I got the same result on my camera and not the borrowed one. Incidently the other camera belongs to a college. However I don't seem to get consistantly bad results, weird. I have focused manually with the 28-105 and all the results were sharp where they were meant to be!

Any ideas?

Kind regards

David

 

[Jim DeLuco]

Hi Doug

I use single AF focus mode with closest subject priority turned to
OFF and can confirm that I haven't shifted the focus. The central
focus brackets have been directly over my subjects face and it
focuses on the wall behind. I did think that this could be due to
lack of contrast in the subjects face, but studio tests shooting
cereal boxes has proved it isn't due to lack of contrast.

I have tested two S2's and with my 28-105mm f3.5-4.5 Nikkor lens
set to 74mm both camera's focused on the wrong box! Just to make
sure it wasn't the lens I then used a 28-70mm Sigma f2.8 and at
70mm I got the same result on my camera and not the borrowed one.
Incidently the other camera belongs to a college. However I don't
seem to get consistantly bad results, weird. I have focused
manually with the 28-105 and all the results were sharp where they
were meant to be!

Any ideas?

Kind regards

David

Doug,

I understand. Many people are having problems (myself included) regardless of setting solutions.

David,

Do you recall when you had this focus problem if what you saw thru the viewfinder was different than what was recorded? IE, was your wife in focus thru the viewfinder? If she was in focus thru the viewfinder but what was recorded was a different focus point, then you may have a CCD alignment problem.

--
Jim DeLuco
DeLuco Photography
http://www.delucophoto.com

 

[Dazzle]

Hi Jim

Yes when I looked through the viewfinder my wife was in focus. I also focused manually and the indicator light came on which actually agreed with what I thought was in focus. When I downloaded the images were just the same as the AF ones!

The camera is going back to Fuji on Monday and I willbe getting a D100 as a loan camera, as the S2 is still hard to come by. Apparantly according to one dealer I spoke to he has a shelf full of D1oo's and can't sell them it seems that everyone wants an S2. I would like one that works properly!

I will keep you all posted.

Cheers

David

 

[Doug Jones]

Hi Jim

Yes when I looked through the viewfinder my wife was in focus. I
also focused manually and the indicator light came on which
actually agreed with what I thought was in focus. When I downloaded
the images were just the same as the AF ones!

The camera is going back to Fuji on Monday and I willbe getting a
D100 as a loan camera, as the S2 is still hard to come by.
Apparantly according to one dealer I spoke to he has a shelf full
of D1oo's and can't sell them it seems that everyone wants an S2. I
would like one that works properly!

Hi David,

If the camera was producing focussed images and is suddenly giving out-of-focus ones when they are in-focus in the viewfinder then I suspect that the mirror hinge mounts or stops are out. I think this is more likely to happen than for the CCD to "shift". After all, the mirror moves a lot, is hinged and probably has shock absorbing stops. If it wasn't returning exactly to the correct spot - only short or long by a fraction it would shorten or lengthen the optical path to the focus screen (and autofocus sensors) which means the actual focus would be different to where you focussed. So if the focus point is behind where you focussed then the path must be longer i.e. the mirror is returning too far so perhaps the stop has moved or something has come off it. You haven't been trying to clean the CCD recently have you? Or put on an incompatible lens that protrubes back into the body more than it should?? Just guessing here.

Other tell-tale mirror mis-alignment things would be that the edges of the image taken are out significantly compared to what you saw in the viewfinder and the focus plane viewed through the viewfinder would be angled. Try lining the camera up taking a sheet of newspaper at right angles to the camera line of view. Focus on one edge and see if the other edge is slightly out of focus. Take a shot and check that the framing is the same as what you saw through the viewfinder.
--
Doug Jones
Canberra
http://www.panamagic.com.au

 

[Dazzle]

Hi Doug

Thanks for the suggestions. It could possibly be mirror problems as you say. One thing I have noted that for a test I did of some sereal boxes staggered away from the camera the S2 would occasionaly focus on the weong box. This test did not produce consistant results.

Unfortunately I don't have the time to carry out the test you suggest, it will be down to Fuji UK on Monday to check it out thoroughly!

Cheers

David

 

[George Richardson]

Hi Doug

I use single AF focus mode with closest subject priority turned to
OFF and can confirm that I haven't shifted the focus. The central
focus brackets have been directly over my subjects face and it
focuses on the wall behind. I did think that this could be due to
lack of contrast in the subjects face, but studio tests shooting
cereal boxes has proved it isn't due to lack of contrast.

I have tested two S2's and with my 28-105mm f3.5-4.5 Nikkor lens
set to 74mm both camera's focused on the wrong box! Just to make
sure it wasn't the lens I then used a 28-70mm Sigma f2.8 and at
70mm I got the same result on my camera and not the borrowed one.
Incidently the other camera belongs to a college. However I don't
seem to get consistantly bad results, weird. I have focused
manually with the 28-105 and all the results were sharp where they
were meant to be!

Any ideas?

Kind regards

David

-------------------

I was also having some focus problems.

What davis sez is correct.

SWITCH OF the closest subject priority.

Why Fuji sell the camera (S2) with it on ,is totally beyond me.

Problem solved

Also try to use AF-S lenses.

Regards

GR

http://www.pbase.com/digital/tabloidgirls

all on S2

--------------------

 

[Artichoke]

SWITCH OF the closest subject priority.

Why Fuji sell the camera (S2) with it on ,is totally beyond me.

I agree that this was stupid ...maybe its Fuji's way to encourage owners to read the manual

Also try to use AF-S lenses.

I don't know about this ...many of the older AF designs have superior glass & unless you really need the AF-S (for folks who don't want to be intrusive or need really fast focus of moving objects), I think the trade off in glass quality (and price) probably is not worth it

examples of superior non-AFS AF lenses are most of the Nikkor primes such as the 14 mm f2.8, the 35-70 f2.8, the 50 mm f1.4, the 105 mm f2.8 and many others with which I have not had direct experience, but that others in these forums have praised. My 80-200 mm f2.8 non AF-S 18-35 mm f 3.5-4.5 and 28-200 mm f/3.5-5.6 all focus accurate and pretty quickly as well
except for the 28-200 mm which is a bit sluggish, particularly when at telephoto
--
pbase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/artichoke

 

[George Richardson]

SWITCH OF the closest subject priority.

Why Fuji sell the camera (S2) with it on ,is totally beyond me.

I agree that this was stupid ...maybe its Fuji's way to encourage
owners to read the manual

Also try to use AF-S lenses.

I don't know about this ...many of the older AF designs have
superior glass & unless you really need the AF-S (for folks who
don't want to be intrusive or need really fast focus of moving
objects), I think the trade off in glass quality (and price)
probably is not worth it

examples of superior non-AFS AF lenses are most of the Nikkor
primes such as the 14 mm f2.8, the 35-70 f2.8, the 50 mm f1.4, the
105 mm f2.8 and many others with which I have not had direct
experience, but that others in these forums have praised. My
80-200 mm f2.8 non AF-S 18-35 mm f 3.5-4.5 and 28-200 mm f/3.5-5.6
all focus accurate and pretty quickly as well
except for the 28-200 mm which is a bit sluggish, particularly when
at telephoto
--
pbase supporter
http://www.pbase.com/artichoke

----------------

I just simply find that its almost like having two cameras.

The AF-S snaps the subject into focus straight away,the otheres are noisy and seem to hunt just that little bit longer.

Regards

GR