R8 focus and recompose. Not getting good results...

[R2D2]

+1 (Or use Back Button AF, and disassociate AF from the shutter button).

Also don't forget to Disable "Preview AF." Or else the AF will continue to hunt, even when you are not pressing a button!

R2

I tried all that after resetting the camera to factory defaults and reconfiguring it, just in case. But it made no difference to the "tracking" of static subjects when I recompose. Have you tried it on an R8?

R2 will probably jump in later, but I can confirm that it does work on R8. I use AF-On button for AF (not shutter release button) and I have Preview AF (used to be called Continuous AF I think) turned off. If I am in One Shot, single AF point (like Spot), all detections Off, all tracking Off then my AF on R8 behaves like the One Shot AF on 70D or 6D ii - it just stays at that point on the frame and doesn't move.

I can then lock focus using the back button AF, release the button, recompose and fully press the shutter release button to take the shot.

This is all correct.

As described above though, there are easier ways of doing it with R8 than the "old" DSLR way.

The OP can achieve the shot using any of these methods.

R2

 

[Tango 55]

Hi all,

A few months ago I purchased an R8 with the 28mm f/2.8 pancake lens. I haven't had a chance to use it much, but now, in preparation for an upcoming trip, I started practicing with the common "focus and recompose" technique I use for travel (mainly architecture, museums, and other static subjects) (no birds, animals, vehicles or other moving subjects).

After trying a good number of Servo AF settings, when I focus and recompose, the focus box turns blue, varies in size, sometimes it moves to an area adjacent to the desired one, all this while the lens continues to micro-hunt, making its clunky noises. I understand the limitations of the stepper motor in the lens, but I feel the lens should stop micro-hunting after acquiring focus, and I should be getting more consistent results with an AF box that keeps its original size.

For your reference, I have tried all available AF areas (from Spot to Whole Area), I have disabled and re-enable subject detection, including Auto and None, set Switching Tracked Subjects to 0, as well as trying the four or five Servo AF modes, including Auto. And more.

Is there a hidden setting I'm missing? Are you seeing the same behavior with the same camera and lens? I have a difficult time believing this is normal after seeing so much praise for the R8's AF.

Thanks in advance for your comments!

Ricardo

You can't focus a recompose using Servo (it tracks as you have discovered). Switch to Single Shot, the focus box will stay still and allow normal focus and recompose.

Of course I can do that, but when I recompose using One Shot (keeping the shutter button half-pressed) the focus would be a little off due to field curvature of the lens and because the longer “diagonal” distance between the camera and the subject in its final position on the viewfinder. Depending on a few factors, the focus could be off by a significant amount. All this can be avoided by recomposing with tracking.

Needless to say, I can also compose first and then move the focus point to the desired final position using the D-pad, and focus using One Shot, as I did for years, but that is a much slower method than recomposing with tracking.

 

[R2D2]

+1 (Or use Back Button AF, and disassociate AF from the shutter button).

Also don't forget to Disable "Preview AF." Or else the AF will continue to hunt, even when you are not pressing a button!

R2

I tried all that after resetting the camera to factory defaults and reconfiguring it

Thanks for getting back. No need for any resets. just an adjustment of technique.

just in case.

OK

But it made no difference to the "tracking" of static subjects when I recompose.

It won't make any difference. Because it looks like we're all talking about two different things, and the nomenclature can also confuse matters.

Traditional Focus and Recompose (with Canon cameras) uses the shutter button half-press to Focus, and then STOP FOCUS after focus has been achieved. You can then recompose as much as you want, and the focus will not re-engage. Focus remains stopped until the shot is taken with a full press (or the shutter button is let up on).

As has been mentioned, in order to achieve this method of operation you need to be shooting in ONE SHOT AF mode, not Servo.

However from your additional comments, it sounds like you want to remain in SERVO mode, and upon a half-press of the shutter button, to lock Servo (tracking) focus on any object that you point your AF point at. The camera will then continue to track and focus on said object as you adjust the framing.

Does this sound correct?

The problem with this technique as you have discovered, is that the camera's tracking will not necessarily stay on the chosen object. Not reliably at least. The Subject Tracking is primarily designed to track (and focus on) the subjects listed in its library.

So the best solution is simply to use one of the other techniques that have been mentioned.

Unless you absolutely have to track your selected (random) object. Then all bets are off.

Have you tried it on an R8?

No need to. The operation is the same with all Canon cameras.

R2

 

[drsnoopy]

+1 (Or use Back Button AF, and disassociate AF from the shutter button).

Also don't forget to Disable "Preview AF." Or else the AF will continue to hunt, even when you are not pressing a button!

R2

I tried all that after resetting the camera to factory defaults and reconfiguring it

Thanks for getting back. No need for any resets. just an adjustment of technique.

just in case.

OK

But it made no difference to the "tracking" of static subjects when I recompose.

It won't make any difference. Because it looks like we're all talking about two different things, and the nomenclature can also confuse matters.

Traditional Focus and Recompose (with Canon cameras) uses the shutter button half-press to Focus, and then STOP FOCUS after focus has been achieved. You can then recompose as much as you want, and the focus will not re-engage. Focus remains stopped until the shot is taken with a full press (or the shutter button is let up on).

As has been mentioned, in order to achieve this method of operation you need to be shooting in ONE SHOT AF mode, not Servo.

However from your additional comments, it sounds like you want to remain in SERVO mode, and upon a half-press of the shutter button, to lock Servo (tracking) focus on any object that you point your AF point at. The camera will then continue to track and focus on said object as you adjust the framing.

Does this sound correct?

The problem with this technique as you have discovered, is that the camera's tracking will not necessarily stay on the chosen object. Not reliably at least. The Subject Tracking is primarily designed to track (and focus on) the subjects listed in its library.

So the best solution is simply to use one of the other techniques that have been mentioned.

Unless you absolutely have to track your selected (random) object. Then all bets are off.

Have you tried it on an R8?

No need to. The operation is the same with all Canon cameras.

R2

I can confirm that my R8 works this way, as does my R7 and R5.

Of the options suggested, I find that BBF is the easiest way to replicate the old “half press focus and recompose” dSLR method, using a single press, while a continuous press keeps tracking. Both in Servo mode. Best of both worlds for anything from architecture through street photography to birds in flight!

 

[Andy01]

Of course I can do that, but when I recompose using One Shot (keeping the shutter button half-pressed) the focus would be a little off due to field curvature of the lens and because the longer “diagonal” distance between the camera and the subject in its final position on the viewfinder. Depending on a few factors, the focus could be off by a significant amount. All this can be avoided by recomposing with tracking.

It wouldn't be any different to using the traditional focus & recompose method on a DSLR. Locking AF on a DSLR's fixed AF point and then recomposing would have exactly the same potential issues. I am certainly not an expert (far from it) but I suspect that a lens curvature issue may only be noticeable if using a fast lens wide open at a very wide FoV (very short focal length), and at a short subject distance (this is why most macro lenses have a particularly flat field curvature) - happy to be corrected though. I am not sure that this would be particularly noticeable on a 28mm pancake lens but that might be wrong as well.

Needless to say, I can also compose first and then move the focus point to the desired final position using the D-pad, and focus using One Shot, as I did for years, but that is a much slower method than recomposing with tracking.

As has been mentioned before, using Servo is the problem - a blue box (Servo) will not be very successful for doing what you want to do - for a static subject. For static you need to be in One Shot for it to work as you want and this applies to any current Canon R camera and any compatible lens. If you were tracking a "recognised" (by Canon) subject like human, animal, vehicle etc and had subject/eye detection turned on with tracking and Servo, then it would work just fine.

Out of curiosity, why are you against using the touchscreen to move the AF point - it is vastly faster at doing it than the D pad, and arguably faster than using a joystick (even if R8 had one) ?

 

[Inevitable]

Deleted

 

[Tango 55]

Out of curiosity, why are you against using the touchscreen to move the AF point - it is vastly faster at doing it than the D pad, and arguably faster than using a joystick (even if R8 had one) ?

Because my right-hand dexterity is limited, so the process is not enjoyable to me.

 

[Tango 55]

+1 (Or use Back Button AF, and disassociate AF from the shutter button).

Also don't forget to Disable "Preview AF." Or else the AF will continue to hunt, even when you are not pressing a button!

R2

I tried all that after resetting the camera to factory defaults and reconfiguring it

Thanks for getting back. No need for any resets. just an adjustment of technique.

just in case.

OK

But it made no difference to the "tracking" of static subjects when I recompose.

It won't make any difference. Because it looks like we're all talking about two different things, and the nomenclature can also confuse matters.

Traditional Focus and Recompose (with Canon cameras) uses the shutter button half-press to Focus, and then STOP FOCUS after focus has been achieved. You can then recompose as much as you want, and the focus will not re-engage. Focus remains stopped until the shot is taken with a full press (or the shutter button is let up on).

As has been mentioned, in order to achieve this method of operation you need to be shooting in ONE SHOT AF mode, not Servo.

However from your additional comments, it sounds like you want to remain in SERVO mode, and upon a half-press of the shutter button, to lock Servo (tracking) focus on any object that you point your AF point at. The camera will then continue to track and focus on said object as you adjust the framing.

Does this sound correct?

Yes, that is correct

The problem with this technique as you have discovered, is that the camera's tracking will not necessarily stay on the chosen object. Not reliably at least. The Subject Tracking is primarily designed to track (and focus on) the subjects listed in its library.

So the best solution is simply to use one of the other techniques that have been mentioned.

Unless you absolutely have to track your selected (random) object. Then all bets are off.

That is unfortunate. The "focus and recompose with tracking" is a great technique.

Have you tried it on an R8?

No need to. The operation is the same with all Canon cameras.

R2

 

[2ndact scene1]

R2D2, I think your last point is the most relevant. I have been there and tried to do that (focus and recompose or at least choose the focus point manually). I could not make it work until someone suggested disabling Auto Preview (I think it was you!). OP, turn it off (and of course get out of Servo mode) and I think it will work. Automation is wonderful when it works but it cannot read your mind.

 

[R2D2]

+1 (Or use Back Button AF, and disassociate AF from the shutter button).

Also don't forget to Disable "Preview AF." Or else the AF will continue to hunt, even when you are not pressing a button!

R2

I tried all that after resetting the camera to factory defaults and reconfiguring it

Thanks for getting back. No need for any resets. just an adjustment of technique.

just in case.

OK

But it made no difference to the "tracking" of static subjects when I recompose.

It won't make any difference. Because it looks like we're all talking about two different things, and the nomenclature can also confuse matters.

Traditional Focus and Recompose (with Canon cameras) uses the shutter button half-press to Focus, and then STOP FOCUS after focus has been achieved. You can then recompose as much as you want, and the focus will not re-engage. Focus remains stopped until the shot is taken with a full press (or the shutter button is let up on).

As has been mentioned, in order to achieve this method of operation you need to be shooting in ONE SHOT AF mode, not Servo.

However from your additional comments, it sounds like you want to remain in SERVO mode, and upon a half-press of the shutter button, to lock Servo (tracking) focus on any object that you point your AF point at. The camera will then continue to track and focus on said object as you adjust the framing.

Does this sound correct?

Yes, that is correct

Great. I think you threw a bunch of us off initially by using the term "Traditional" Focus and Recompose :-D .

The problem with this technique as you have discovered, is that the camera's tracking will not necessarily stay on the chosen object. Not reliably at least. The Subject Tracking is primarily designed to track (and focus on) the subjects listed in its library.

So the best solution is simply to use one of the other techniques that have been mentioned.

Unless you absolutely have to track your selected (random) object. Then all bets are off.

That is unfortunate. The "focus and recompose with tracking" is a great technique.

Agree with you. An improved (Canon) implementation would allow one more method of shooting. Tracking does well with people, birds, planes, cars, etc., but not with random objects. Sony does a bit better with this, so I expect we'll see improvement here in the future.

R2

--
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
http://www.pbase.com/jekyll_and_hyde/galleries

 

[R2D2]

R2D2, I think your last point is the most relevant. I have been there and tried to do that (focus and recompose or at least choose the focus point manually). I could not make it work until someone suggested disabling Auto Preview (I think it was you!). OP, turn it off (and of course get out of Servo mode) and I think it will work. Automation is wonderful when it works but it cannot read your mind.

Yes, the "traditional" Focus and Recompose still works very well for a lot of things. I often like to "stop focus" and then simply move my camera forward or backward a small amount to compensate for small movements of the subject.

When shooting people, this makes follow-up shots lightning quick since you don't have to wait for subsequent AF lock. Eye tracking is getting so good however that this is needed less and less I've found .

This also works great for subjects (like birds in the twigs/clutter) where you can't get the AF right on the eye. Instead you just estimate the amount the focus is off, and then move the camera (after stopping focus) the necessary amount to or fro. Similarly if the bird is quartering away from you and the AF insists on focusing near the "rear" you can focus anyway and then lean forward the needed amount.

In similar fashion the OP could estimate the amount of field curvature to compensate for, and then lean the needed amount. Fortunately field curvature becomes less of an issue the further away the subject is, as it gets swallowed up by the increased DOF (in somewhat the same manner that focus breathing does).

R2

 

[Tango 55]

R2D2, I think your last point is the most relevant. I have been there and tried to do that (focus and recompose or at least choose the focus point manually). I could not make it work until someone suggested disabling Auto Preview (I think it was you!). OP, turn it off (and of course get out of Servo mode) and I think it will work. Automation is wonderful when it works but it cannot read your mind.

I have AF Preview off (if that is what you call "Auto Preview").

The whole point of this thread is about recomposing with tracking. I'm very familiar with recomposing in single shot, and that is precisely what I no longer want to do...

 

[Marquee]

I have not read all the replies, but my technique on a R5 Mark ii is to have the AF set to a very basic 1 point AF, single shot, AF on pressing shutter button with whole area tracking AF assigned to the set button and subject to detect set to none. I move the camera so that the focus point is over the object I want to maintain focus on. I press set and the white tracking frame appears over the object. I can then recompose with the tracking frame in place on the object and focus by half pressing the shutter. The tracking frame might move a little off the object temporarily depending on how violently you recompose, but it does not change size. This works for me.

 

[gscotten]

I have not read all the replies, but my technique on a R5 Mark ii is to have the AF set to a very basic 1 point AF, single shot, AF on pressing shutter button with whole area tracking AF assigned to the set button and subject to detect set to none. I move the camera so that the focus point is over the object I want to maintain focus on. I press set and the white tracking frame appears over the object. I can then recompose with the tracking frame in place on the object and focus by half pressing the shutter. The tracking frame might move a little off the object temporarily depending on how violently you recompose, but it does not change size. This works for me.

I am astonished that so few people seem to feel this works, because it works so well for me. My settings are similar, but not identical.

I have also seen many videos on-line showing R-series cameras tracking all kinds of stuff all over the screen. If it works for me and for them, I am unsure why it doesn't work for everyone else.

 

[Marquee]

I have not read all the replies, but my technique on a R5 Mark ii is to have the AF set to a very basic 1 point AF, single shot, AF on pressing shutter button with whole area tracking AF assigned to the set button and subject to detect set to none. I move the camera so that the focus point is over the object I want to maintain focus on. I press set and the white tracking frame appears over the object. I can then recompose with the tracking frame in place on the object and focus by half pressing the shutter. The tracking frame might move a little off the object temporarily depending on how violently you recompose, but it does not change size. This works for me.

I am astonished that so few people seem to feel this works, because it works so well for me. My settings are similar, but not identical.

I have also seen many videos on-line showing R-series cameras tracking all kinds of stuff all over the screen. If it works for me and for them, I am unsure why it doesn't work for everyone else.

These settings work for static objects / scenes, with a distinct static feature to track while reframing, which was the OPs original point. If you then want to introduce servo AF on objects that are moving relative to the camera, this is harder for the cameras to cope with, giving more varied results. Other poster tend to introduce more subject complexity that is sometimes not explicit that can confuse the discussion.

 

[Tango 55]

I have not read all the replies, but my technique on a R5 Mark ii is to have the AF set to a very basic 1 point AF, single shot, AF on pressing shutter button with whole area tracking AF assigned to the set button and subject to detect set to none. I move the camera so that the focus point is over the object I want to maintain focus on. I press set and the white tracking frame appears over the object. I can then recompose with the tracking frame in place on the object and focus by half pressing the shutter. The tracking frame might move a little off the object temporarily depending on how violently you recompose, but it does not change size. This works for me.

I am astonished that so few people seem to feel this works, because it works so well for me. My settings are similar, but not identical.

I have also seen many videos on-line showing R-series cameras tracking all kinds of stuff all over the screen. If it works for me and for them, I am unsure why it doesn't work for everyone else.

It works for me as well, but it doesn’t quite meet my expectation in terms of accuracy with the R8 and the 28/2.8 RF, that never stops micro-hunting, even after recomposing and no longer moving my camera. Yesterday I tried the adapted EF 28/2.8 IS USM, which is a little better (in terms of tracking) than the RF lens, but MUCH heavier, not very appealing for international travel.

The second issue I have is the blue focus box changing size (becoming larger than the original focus point), often including out-of-focus objects. With it, I no longer know where the camera is focusing.

Others may have satisfactory results with other lens/camera combinations.

 

[Marquee]

I have not read all the replies, but my technique on a R5 Mark ii is to have the AF set to a very basic 1 point AF, single shot, AF on pressing shutter button with whole area tracking AF assigned to the set button and subject to detect set to none. I move the camera so that the focus point is over the object I want to maintain focus on. I press set and the white tracking frame appears over the object. I can then recompose with the tracking frame in place on the object and focus by half pressing the shutter. The tracking frame might move a little off the object temporarily depending on how violently you recompose, but it does not change size. This works for me.

I am astonished that so few people seem to feel this works, because it works so well for me. My settings are similar, but not identical.

I have also seen many videos on-line showing R-series cameras tracking all kinds of stuff all over the screen. If it works for me and for them, I am unsure why it doesn't work for everyone else.

It works for me as well, but it doesn’t quite meet my expectation in terms of accuracy with the R8 and the 28/2.8 RF, that never stops micro-hunting, even after recomposing and no longer moving my camera. Yesterday I tried the adapted EF 28/2.8 IS USM, which is a little better (in terms of tracking) than the RF lens, but MUCH heavier, not very appealing for international travel.

The second issue I have is the blue focus box changing size (becoming larger than the original focus point), often including out-of-focus objects. With it, I no longer know where the camera is focusing.

Others may have satisfactory results with other lens/camera combinations.

In your original message you said

"I started practicing with the common "focus and recompose" technique I use for travel (mainly architecture, museums, and other static subjects) (no birds, animals, vehicles or other moving subjects)."

suggesting you are interested in static subjects. If this is the case, why have you got servo AF turned on? If you use one shot, the tracking frame would be white and be more stable and only focus when you half press the shutter (depending on how you have got that configured)

 

[Tango 55]

I have not read all the replies, but my technique on a R5 Mark ii is to have the AF set to a very basic 1 point AF, single shot, AF on pressing shutter button with whole area tracking AF assigned to the set button and subject to detect set to none. I move the camera so that the focus point is over the object I want to maintain focus on. I press set and the white tracking frame appears over the object. I can then recompose with the tracking frame in place on the object and focus by half pressing the shutter. The tracking frame might move a little off the object temporarily depending on how violently you recompose, but it does not change size. This works for me.

Thank you for the clear description. The difference between the R8 and the R5 Mark ii seems to be that the R8 often changes the size of its “tracking frame”, even when I use exactly the same settings you use. Lens micro-hunting is an issue with the lens, so there nothing I can do if I want the 28mm focal length while maintaining the small size.

Thanks again,

Ricardo

 

[Tango 55]

I have not read all the replies, but my technique on a R5 Mark ii is to have the AF set to a very basic 1 point AF, single shot, AF on pressing shutter button with whole area tracking AF assigned to the set button and subject to detect set to none. I move the camera so that the focus point is over the object I want to maintain focus on. I press set and the white tracking frame appears over the object. I can then recompose with the tracking frame in place on the object and focus by half pressing the shutter. The tracking frame might move a little off the object temporarily depending on how violently you recompose, but it does not change size. This works for me.

I am astonished that so few people seem to feel this works, because it works so well for me. My settings are similar, but not identical.

I have also seen many videos on-line showing R-series cameras tracking all kinds of stuff all over the screen. If it works for me and for them, I am unsure why it doesn't work for everyone else.

It works for me as well, but it doesn’t quite meet my expectation in terms of accuracy with the R8 and the 28/2.8 RF, that never stops micro-hunting, even after recomposing and no longer moving my camera. Yesterday I tried the adapted EF 28/2.8 IS USM, which is a little better (in terms of tracking) than the RF lens, but MUCH heavier, not very appealing for international travel.

The second issue I have is the blue focus box changing size (becoming larger than the original focus point), often including out-of-focus objects. With it, I no longer know where the camera is focusing.

Others may have satisfactory results with other lens/camera combinations.

In your original message you said

"I started practicing with the common "focus and recompose" technique I use for travel (mainly architecture, museums, and other static subjects) (no birds, animals, vehicles or other moving subjects)."

suggesting you are interested in static subjects. If this is the case, why have you got servo AF turned on? If you use one shot, the tracking frame would be white and be more stable and only focus when you half press the shutter (depending on how you have got that configured)

I prefer not to use One Shot simply because it can take ten clicks on the D-pad to take the focus point to where I want it to be. I do that with my older cameras without tracking, but I hoped it wouldn't be necessary with the R8. And I prefer not to use the touch screen.

 

[drsnoopy]

I have not read all the replies, but my technique on a R5 Mark ii is to have the AF set to a very basic 1 point AF, single shot, AF on pressing shutter button with whole area tracking AF assigned to the set button and subject to detect set to none. I move the camera so that the focus point is over the object I want to maintain focus on. I press set and the white tracking frame appears over the object. I can then recompose with the tracking frame in place on the object and focus by half pressing the shutter. The tracking frame might move a little off the object temporarily depending on how violently you recompose, but it does not change size. This works for me.

I am astonished that so few people seem to feel this works, because it works so well for me. My settings are similar, but not identical.

I have also seen many videos on-line showing R-series cameras tracking all kinds of stuff all over the screen. If it works for me and for them, I am unsure why it doesn't work for everyone else.

It works for me as well, but it doesn’t quite meet my expectation in terms of accuracy with the R8 and the 28/2.8 RF, that never stops micro-hunting, even after recomposing and no longer moving my camera. Yesterday I tried the adapted EF 28/2.8 IS USM, which is a little better (in terms of tracking) than the RF lens, but MUCH heavier, not very appealing for international travel.

The second issue I have is the blue focus box changing size (becoming larger than the original focus point), often including out-of-focus objects. With it, I no longer know where the camera is focusing.

Others may have satisfactory results with other lens/camera combinations.

In your original message you said

"I started practicing with the common "focus and recompose" technique I use for travel (mainly architecture, museums, and other static subjects) (no birds, animals, vehicles or other moving subjects)."

suggesting you are interested in static subjects. If this is the case, why have you got servo AF turned on? If you use one shot, the tracking frame would be white and be more stable and only focus when you half press the shutter (depending on how you have got that configured)

I prefer not to use One Shot simply because it can take ten clicks on the D-pad to take the focus point to where I want it to be. I do that with my older cameras without tracking, but I hoped it wouldn't be necessary with the R8. And I prefer not to use the touch screen.