R8 focus and recompose. Not getting good results...

[Tango 55]

Hi all,

A few months ago I purchased an R8 with the 28mm f/2.8 pancake lens. I haven't had a chance to use it much, but now, in preparation for an upcoming trip, I started practicing with the common "focus and recompose" technique I use for travel (mainly architecture, museums, and other static subjects) (no birds, animals, vehicles or other moving subjects).

After trying a good number of Servo AF settings, when I focus and recompose, the focus box turns blue, varies in size, sometimes it moves to an area adjacent to the desired one, all this while the lens continues to micro-hunt, making its clunky noises. I understand the limitations of the stepper motor in the lens, but I feel the lens should stop micro-hunting after acquiring focus, and I should be getting more consistent results with an AF box that keeps its original size.

For your reference, I have tried all available AF areas (from Spot to Whole Area), I have disabled and re-enable subject detection, including Auto and None, set Switching Tracked Subjects to 0, as well as trying the four or five Servo AF modes, including Auto. And more.

Is there a hidden setting I'm missing? Are you seeing the same behavior with the same camera and lens? I have a difficult time believing this is normal after seeing so much praise for the R8's AF.

Thanks in advance for your comments!

Ricardo

 

[Andy01]

Hi all,

A few months ago I purchased an R8 with the 28mm f/2.8 pancake lens. I haven't had a chance to use it much, but now, in preparation for an upcoming trip, I started practicing with the common "focus and recompose" technique I use for travel (mainly architecture, museums, and other static subjects) (no birds, animals, vehicles or other moving subjects).

Focus and recompose is a somewhat outdated technique with a R8 that can AF on any point across 100% of the screen/EVF. It was useful with DSLRs with a small number of AF points that often didn't coincide with the positioning of the primary subject within your chosen framing/composition.

However, with R8 all you have to do is use your thumb to drag the AF point across the screen to coincide with wherever on the frame you wish to place it.

After trying a good number of Servo AF settings, when I focus and recompose, the focus box turns blue, varies in size, sometimes it moves to an area adjacent to the desired one, all this while the lens continues to micro-hunt, making its clunky noises. I understand the limitations of the stepper motor in the lens, but I feel the lens should stop micro-hunting after acquiring focus, and I should be getting more consistent results with an AF box that keeps its original size.

For your reference, I have tried all available AF areas (from Spot to Whole Area), I have disabled and re-enable subject detection, including Auto and None, set Switching Tracked Subjects to 0, as well as trying the four or five Servo AF modes, including Auto. And more.

As far as I am aware, and others may correct me, but if you want R8 AF to behave like a traditional DSLR with focus & recompose, you may need to ensure that all subject & eye detections are turned off and be using One Shot rather than Servo (in other words, no tracking). If any of these are turned on the camera seems likely to continue hunting for the desired subject and looking to track movement.

Is there a hidden setting I'm missing? Are you seeing the same behavior with the same camera and lens? I have a difficult time believing this is normal after seeing so much praise for the R8's AF.

I think it can be a bit complex because there are a few places that you can ask the camera to look for people/animals/vehicles etc, or eyes, and asking it to track anything (by using Servo) is another way to potentially cause issues.

Using larger AF areas is likely to cause the camera to focus on the closest thing it can lock AF on that falls inside your chosen area.

I would suggest using One Shot, spot AF point and ensure that all detections are turned off.

Thanks in advance for your comments!

Ricardo

Hopefully other more experienced users will chime in and correct me if necessary.

 

[Thomas Hegna]

This is how I have set my R8 up.

1. deactivate AF on shutter button. Set af to afon button.

2. I’ve also set the movie record button. (Red button on top) to switch between servo and single shot af. This works like a treat. I use servo with tracking when shooting people. Then, when shooting still objects I just press the button to switch to single shot. Now I got a classic dlslr-style af.

regarding micro jitters af:

I don’t have the 28mm lens. But I do have the 35mm stm. With this lens I also notice a lot of micro-hunting. The images are sharp, so I think this is the lens that makes those noises.

I also use more expensive lenses with usm-motors. With those lenses I don’t notice this kind of hunting. Well, I’m pretty sure it’s there, it’s just more silent and you can’t hear it.

I also had the R62, and it’s exactly the same with that camera. Pretty sure with other models too.
I think this is a result of us users using servo af a lot more theses days. Those cheaper lenses are not optimal for servo shooting?? As a result, we feel that there’s something wrong with either camera/lens when in reality it’s in perfect working order.

 

[R2D2]

Hi all,

A few months ago I purchased an R8 with the 28mm f/2.8 pancake lens. I haven't had a chance to use it much, but now, in preparation for an upcoming trip, I started practicing with the common "focus and recompose" technique I use for travel (mainly architecture, museums, and other static subjects) (no birds, animals, vehicles or other moving subjects).

Focus and recompose is a somewhat outdated technique with a R8 that can AF on any point across 100% of the screen/EVF. It was useful with DSLRs with a small number of AF points that often didn't coincide with the positioning of the primary subject within your chosen framing/composition.

However, with R8 all you have to do is use your thumb to drag the AF point across the screen to coincide with wherever on the frame you wish to place it.

After trying a good number of Servo AF settings, when I focus and recompose, the focus box turns blue, varies in size, sometimes it moves to an area adjacent to the desired one, all this while the lens continues to micro-hunt, making its clunky noises. I understand the limitations of the stepper motor in the lens, but I feel the lens should stop micro-hunting after acquiring focus, and I should be getting more consistent results with an AF box that keeps its original size.

For your reference, I have tried all available AF areas (from Spot to Whole Area), I have disabled and re-enable subject detection, including Auto and None, set Switching Tracked Subjects to 0, as well as trying the four or five Servo AF modes, including Auto. And more.

As far as I am aware, and others may correct me, but if you want R8 AF to behave like a traditional DSLR with focus & recompose, you may need to ensure that all subject & eye detections are turned off and be using One Shot rather than Servo (in other words, no tracking). If any of these are turned on the camera seems likely to continue hunting for the desired subject and looking to track movement.

Is there a hidden setting I'm missing? Are you seeing the same behavior with the same camera and lens? I have a difficult time believing this is normal after seeing so much praise for the R8's AF.

I think it can be a bit complex because there are a few places that you can ask the camera to look for people/animals/vehicles etc, or eyes, and asking it to track anything (by using Servo) is another way to potentially cause issues.

Using larger AF areas is likely to cause the camera to focus on the closest thing it can lock AF on that falls inside your chosen area.

I would suggest using One Shot, spot AF point and ensure that all detections are turned off.

+1 (Or use Back Button AF, and disassociate AF from the shutter button).

Also don't forget to Disable "Preview AF." Or else the AF will continue to hunt, even when you are not pressing a button!

R2

 

[gscotten]

I have an R8 and use focus and recompose all the time, although I don't call it that. I call it tracking. It follows me recomposing just as well as it follows a bird I am trying to follow. These mirrorless cameras are excellent at tracking as the subject moves around the frame or changes distance from you. Plenty of YouTube videos to confirm that.

I don't know if you have a setting wrong or if you have a bad lens/camera, but focus/recompose works well for me. There are a lot of AF settings and some of them interact, so it is not necessarily easy to find the combo that works for you.

--
George
.
Feel free to retouch any photograph I post in these forums. It probably needs it.

 

[Tango 55]

Thank you for all the recommendations. I’ll give them a try and respond individually before the end of my day here in California.

I’ll also keep an eye on new tips or suggestions from others.

Thanks again!

Ricardo

 

[Lisa Horton]

I have an R8 and use focus and recompose all the time, although I don't call it that. I call it tracking. It follows me recomposing just as well as it follows a bird I am trying to follow. These mirrorless cameras are excellent at tracking as the subject moves around the frame or changes distance from you. Plenty of YouTube videos to confirm that.

I don't know if you have a setting wrong or if you have a bad lens/camera, but focus/recompose works well for me. There are a lot of AF settings and some of them interact, so it is not necessarily easy to find the combo that works for you.

This. Tracking has replaced focus and recompose for me. And it works a lot better.

 

[Inevitable]

Hi all,

A few months ago I purchased an R8 with the 28mm f/2.8 pancake lens. I haven't had a chance to use it much, but now, in preparation for an upcoming trip, I started practicing with the common "focus and recompose" technique I use for travel (mainly architecture, museums, and other static subjects) (no birds, animals, vehicles or other moving subjects).

After trying a good number of Servo AF settings, when I focus and recompose, the focus box turns blue, varies in size, sometimes it moves to an area adjacent to the desired one, all this while the lens continues to micro-hunt, making its clunky noises. I understand the limitations of the stepper motor in the lens, but I feel the lens should stop micro-hunting after acquiring focus, and I should be getting more consistent results with an AF box that keeps its original size.

For your reference, I have tried all available AF areas (from Spot to Whole Area), I have disabled and re-enable subject detection, including Auto and None, set Switching Tracked Subjects to 0, as well as trying the four or five Servo AF modes, including Auto. And more.

Is there a hidden setting I'm missing? Are you seeing the same behavior with the same camera and lens? I have a difficult time believing this is normal after seeing so much praise for the R8's AF.

Thanks in advance for your comments!

Ricardo

 

[R6iiowner]

For landscape, ONE SHOT

 

[Tango 55]

Focus and recompose is a somewhat outdated technique with a R8 that can AF on any point across 100% of the screen/EVF. It was useful with DSLRs with a small number of AF points that often didn't coincide with the positioning of the primary subject within your chosen framing/composition.

However, with R8 all you have to do is use your thumb to drag the AF point across the screen to coincide with wherever on the frame you wish to place it.

I don't enable touch screens on my cameras, simply because I don't enjoy using them that way. Nothing else I tried works for recomposing and keeping the focus point on the static subject of choice.

 

[Tango 55]

+1 (Or use Back Button AF, and disassociate AF from the shutter button).

Also don't forget to Disable "Preview AF." Or else the AF will continue to hunt, even when you are not pressing a button!

R2

I tried all that after resetting the camera to factory defaults and reconfiguring it, just in case. But it made no difference to the "tracking" of static subjects when I recompose. Have you tried it on an R8?

 

[Andy01]

Focus and recompose is a somewhat outdated technique with a R8 that can AF on any point across 100% of the screen/EVF. It was useful with DSLRs with a small number of AF points that often didn't coincide with the positioning of the primary subject within your chosen framing/composition.

However, with R8 all you have to do is use your thumb to drag the AF point across the screen to coincide with wherever on the frame you wish to place it.

I don't enable touch screens on my cameras, simply because I don't enjoy using them that way.

Fair enough. For the selection of a AF point you can limit the area of the screen that will be used to move the point around - this is to limit things like inadvertant movements due to nose contact. It actually works quite well. With my R10 I can also use the joystick, but my R8 doesn't have one.

Nothing else I tried works for recomposing and keeping the focus point on the static subject of choice.

As someone mentioned above a way of using a form of "focus & recompose" is to set subject/eye detections on, use Servo to track, and then recompose the framing while pressing the back button (AF-On) to continue "tracking". That way the AF point should stay on the chosen subject while you re-frame. It does, of course, depend on the subject - it isn't going to work well for a landscape shot - where you need to use One Shot with no detections or tracking.

 

[Andy01]

+1 (Or use Back Button AF, and disassociate AF from the shutter button).

Also don't forget to Disable "Preview AF." Or else the AF will continue to hunt, even when you are not pressing a button!

R2

I tried all that after resetting the camera to factory defaults and reconfiguring it, just in case. But it made no difference to the "tracking" of static subjects when I recompose. Have you tried it on an R8?

R2 will probably jump in later, but I can confirm that it does work on R8. I use AF-On button for AF (not shutter release button) and I have Preview AF (used to be called Continuous AF I think) turned off. If I am in One Shot, single AF point (like Spot), all detections Off, all tracking Off then my AF on R8 behaves like the One Shot AF on 70D or 6D ii - it just stays at that point on the frame and doesn't move.

I can then lock focus using the back button AF, release the button, recompose and fully press the shutter release button to take the shot.

As described above though, there are easier ways of doing it with R8 than the "old" DSLR way.

 

[Tango 55]

I have an R8 and use focus and recompose all the time, although I don't call it that. I call it tracking. It follows me recomposing just as well as it follows a bird I am trying to follow. These mirrorless cameras are excellent at tracking as the subject moves around the frame or changes distance from you. Plenty of YouTube videos to confirm that.

I don't know if you have a setting wrong or if you have a bad lens/camera, but focus/recompose works well for me. There are a lot of AF settings and some of them interact, so it is not necessarily easy to find the combo that works for you.

I'm fine calling it "tracking" or anything else, but do you get consistent results if instead of tracking a bird, you focus, say, on a door or window and then recompose the scene to your taste? As mentioned earlier, I reset the camera to make sure I didn't do anything funny with the settings. After focusing, the blue box has a tendency to jump around and change its size to (alarmingly) include out-of-focus areas of the scene.

A bad camera or lens is unlikely, but I'll ask the Canon rep next time she is in my area.

Thanks for your reply,

Ricardo

 

[Tango 55]

This is how I have set my R8 up.

1. deactivate AF on shutter button. Set af to afon button.

2. I’ve also set the movie record button. (Red button on top) to switch between servo and single shot af. This works like a treat. I use servo with tracking when shooting people. Then, when shooting still objects I just press the button to switch to single shot. Now I got a classic dlslr-style af.

regarding micro jitters af:

I don’t have the 28mm lens. But I do have the 35mm stm. With this lens I also notice a lot of micro-hunting. The images are sharp, so I think this is the lens that makes those noises.

I also use more expensive lenses with usm-motors. With those lenses I don’t notice this kind of hunting. Well, I’m pretty sure it’s there, it’s just more silent and you can’t hear it.

I also had the R62, and it’s exactly the same with that camera. Pretty sure with other models too.
I think this is a result of us users using servo af a lot more theses days. Those cheaper lenses are not optimal for servo shooting?? As a result, we feel that there’s something wrong with either camera/lens when in reality it’s in perfect working order.

Deactivating AF on the shutter button and moving it to AF ON didn't affect the tracking at all (at least not in a positive way).

I think the 28/2.8 RF lens is very good optically, but leave much to be desired in terms of tracking AF. I also have the 24-50 kit lens, which is not as "clunky", but the blue AF focus box behaviour is the same. I don't own any L glass to compare.

Thank you,

Ricardo

 

[Tango 55]

I have an R8 and use focus and recompose all the time, although I don't call it that. I call it tracking. It follows me recomposing just as well as it follows a bird I am trying to follow. These mirrorless cameras are excellent at tracking as the subject moves around the frame or changes distance from you. Plenty of YouTube videos to confirm that.

I don't know if you have a setting wrong or if you have a bad lens/camera, but focus/recompose works well for me. There are a lot of AF settings and some of them interact, so it is not necessarily easy to find the combo that works for you.

This. Tracking has replaced focus and recompose for me. And it works a lot better.

Well, what I'm doing is "tracking", not birds or cars, but static subjects not listed as a "Subject to Detect" in the menu. It could be anything interesting I see while on vacation...

I focus on my static subject by half-pressing the shutter button, and recompose while keeping the shutter button half-pressed. The camera "doesn't know" whether the subject is moving or the camera itself is being moved by the user. What I describe is what's working poorly.

Thank you,

Ricardo

 

[gscotten]

I'm fine calling it "tracking" or anything else, but do you get consistent results if instead of tracking a bird, you focus, say, on a door or window and then recompose the scene to your taste?

I leave object detection set on Auto, and it seems to be pretty darn good at focusing on what I want. It does require that there is something to focus on. I just went outside in front of my house and focused on a window and recomposed it all over the viewfinder. Then I did my house number plate., chimney, neighbor's patio umbrella, and a tree stump across the street. All tracked fine. When I did my window, it did jump around a little from one side of the window frame to the bottom and back, but it never left the window. I consider that acceptable.

My default is expanded center point AF area. I do have a button that toggles between my selected AF areas when needed. For example, when shooting BIF against the sky I usually use Whole Area AF.

I feel the R8 AF is phenomenal.

--
George
.
Feel free to retouch any photograph I post in these forums. It probably needs it.

 

[Tango 55]

I'm fine calling it "tracking" or anything else, but do you get consistent results if instead of tracking a bird, you focus, say, on a door or window and then recompose the scene to your taste?

I leave object detection set on Auto, and it seems to be pretty darn good at focusing on what I want. It does require that there is something to focus on. I just went outside in front of my house and focused on a window and recomposed it all over the viewfinder. Then I did my house number plate., chimney, neighbor's patio umbrella, and a tree stump across the street. All tracked fine. When I did my window, it did jump around a little from one side of the window frame to the bottom and back, but it never left the window. I consider that acceptable.

My default is expanded center point AF area. I do have a button that toggles between my selected AF areas when needed. For example, when shooting BIF against the sky I usually use Whole Area AF.

I feel the R8 AF is phenomenal.

What's the lens you used, George? I'm starting to feel that could make a significant difference...

Thanks a lot for the time you invested on it,

Ricardo

 

[Tango 55]

For landscape, ONE SHOT

That's how I'm starting to feel, at lease if I want to use the 28/2.8 RF lens.

 

[gscotten]

What's the lens you used, George? I'm starting to feel that could make a significant difference...

RF24-240, RF85 f/2, rf600 f/11, EF70-200 f/2.8

Works great with all of them.