R6 Mark II overwrites min. shutter speed

[5omeone]

Dear DPR community,

I use an R6II and recently took pictures of people in slightly darker environments without flash and with the 50 1.8 STM. I used aperture priority mode (1.8 throughout) and shot with an automatic ISO between 100 and 6400. To avoid severe motion blur, I set the “minimum shutter speed” to 1/250 in the ISO menu (please see here example picture).

Now, in low light conditions, the camera reaches its limits with this setup and sets the ISO to 6400. The shutter speed should now be no longer than 1/250. I would expect the camera to stick to these values and produce a darker image. Instead, the camera “overwrites” the minimum shutter speed and sometimes goes up to 1/30.

I don’t understand how this can be, as I set clear limits for the camera. Am I overlooking a function? Or is this intentional behavior with the R6II?

Many thanks and best regards!

 

[JasonMulvern]

I think it's normal, from the manual:

• If a correct exposure cannot be obtained with the maximum ISO speed limit set with [Auto range], a shutter speed slower than the [Min. shutter spd.] will be set to obtain the standard exposure.

 

[5omeone]

Many thanks for the quick response. Well, this is something I didn't expect. Honestly, in my point of view it's a rather useless functionality...

 

[Inevitable]

It's the same functionality exhibited on most, if not all, cameras.

If you want the functionality as you state use Manual, set an aperture, set a speed, and set IS0 to auto. Under the situation, as you describe, you will get the desired under exposure.

 

[R2D2]

It's the same functionality exhibited on most, if not all, cameras.

If you want the functionality as you state use Manual, set an aperture, set a speed, and set IS0 to auto. Under the situation, as you describe, you will get the desired under exposure.

Bingo!

R2

 

[5omeone]

It's the same functionality exhibited on most, if not all, cameras.

If you want the functionality as you state use Manual, set an aperture, set a speed, and set IS0 to auto. Under the situation, as you describe, you will get the desired under exposure.

Yes, you're absolutely right. Well, we're actually beginners and hesitate to take photos manually. ;-)

But honestly, if I set limits for the system, I expect the camera to stick to them. With Auto ISO and the corresponding limits, the maximum value is not simply exceeded because the camera interprets it as too low (people would be outraged if that were the case). And I set both in the same menu!

By the way, the help dialog for this function does not mention the possibility of the shutter speed falling below the minimum.

For us, this is a clear failure.

 

[Inevitable]

I've nothing more to add.

 

[Alastair Norcross]

Many thanks for the quick response. Well, this is something I didn't expect. Honestly, in my point of view it's a rather useless functionality...

This is exactly how would expect it to work, ever I didn’t know it. I would be disappointed if it worked the way you wanted. As others have said, if you want it to maintain a minimum speed of 1/250, just use manual.

 

[Andy01]

It's the same functionality exhibited on most, if not all, cameras.

If you want the functionality as you state use Manual, set an aperture, set a speed, and set IS0 to auto. Under the situation, as you describe, you will get the desired under exposure.

Yes, you're absolutely right. Well, we're actually beginners and hesitate to take photos manually. ;-)

I think beginners are exactly what Canon had in mind with this "feature" - to avoid an inexperienced photographer getting a bunch of unexpectedly incorrectly exposed photos.

If memory serves, it is (or used to be) called something like "Safety Shift" where if the camera cannot produce an image that is reasonably well exposed, it will over-rule the chosen settings to "correct" the exposure.

I am happy to be corrected, but if it is Safety Shift that does this, it can be turned on or off (with a couple of options) in the Orange Settings Menu 2 (on my R8, not sure what it is on R6 ii) - more under "Safety Shift" in the manual (page 839 in the R8 manual). Might be worth a try ?

But honestly, if I set limits for the system, I expect the camera to stick to them.

Then use Manual mode - that is EXACTLY what Manual is for and caters for situations where photographers deliberately want to over of under expose an image.

With Auto ISO and the corresponding limits, the maximum value is not simply exceeded because the camera interprets it as too low (people would be outraged if that were the case). And I set both in the same menu!

Get yourself DxO PL9 and set your maximum ISO to 25600 - that will give you another 2 stops of latitude.

By the way, the help dialog for this function does not mention the possibility of the shutter speed falling below the minimum.

The manual does .... read it

For us, this is a clear failure.

You are certainly entitled to your opinion :-D

 

[JohnSil]

It's the same functionality exhibited on most, if not all, cameras.

If you want the functionality as you state use Manual, set an aperture, set a speed, and set IS0 to auto. Under the situation, as you describe, you will get the desired under exposure.

Yes, you're absolutely right. Well, we're actually beginners and hesitate to take photos manually. ;-)

But honestly, if I set limits for the system, I expect the camera to stick to them. With Auto ISO and the corresponding limits, the maximum value is not simply exceeded because the camera interprets it as too low (people would be outraged if that were the case). And I set both in the same menu!

By the way, the help dialog for this function does not mention the possibility of the shutter speed falling below the minimum.

For us, this is a clear failure.

Actually the camera will STILL do that if you're using Auto ISO in Manual. I think you need to be in manual ISO as well!

ALSO you need to make sure that in the ORANGE EXPOSURE panel in the menu you have the SAFETY SHIFT set to "OFF" or the camera will auto override an under or over exposure!

Being new to these complex ML(or dslr) cameras must be a barrel of fun and frustration!!! Good luck

John

 

[Inevitable]

Safety shift is another, different, function, it isn't part of the ISO related set a minimum shutter speed dialog. Safety shift will alter aperture, SS or ISO in its function.

Manual - setting SS and Aperture allowing ISO to be flexible is the way to go. Fixing ISO as well as aperture and SS will fix the exposure.

 

[Andy01]

Safety shift is another, different, function, it isn't part of the ISO related set a minimum shutter speed dialog. Safety shift will alter aperture, SS or ISO in its function.

Perhaps I misunderstood the OP, but the Tv/Av: Shutter speed/Aperture option as described on page 839 seems to describe what happened.

The OP stated that when the selected ISO range ran out of range (couldn't obtain a correct exposure as it reached the set maximum of ISO 6400), the camera adjusted the shutter speed to a value less than the selected Min. shutter speed value.

From page 839 of R8 manual - "Safety shift overrides and changes to [ISO Speed Range] or [Min. shutter speed] from default settings if standard exposure cannot be obtained."

Manual - setting SS and Aperture allowing ISO to be flexible is the way to go. Fixing ISO as well as aperture and SS will fix the exposure.

 

[Pierre Lagarde]

Dear DPR community,

I use an R6II and recently took pictures of people in slightly darker environments without flash and with the 50 1.8 STM. I used aperture priority mode (1.8 throughout) and shot with an automatic ISO between 100 and 6400. To avoid severe motion blur, I set the “minimum shutter speed” to 1/250 in the ISO menu (please see here example picture).

Now, in low light conditions, the camera reaches its limits with this setup and sets the ISO to 6400. The shutter speed should now be no longer than 1/250. I would expect the camera to stick to these values and produce a darker image. Instead, the camera “overwrites” the minimum shutter speed and sometimes goes up to 1/30.

I don’t understand how this can be, as I set clear limits for the camera. Am I overlooking a function? Or is this intentional behavior with the R6II?

Many thanks and best regards!

The only way I see to kind of automate the camera the way you're expecting is to set both :

• "Safety shift" (C.Fn1 Menu) to OFF and
• "Shutter speed range" (C.Fn2 Menu) to a "Lowest speed" of 250 (i.e. 1/250), or anything you need it to be

At least it works on R5 like this (I haven't got an R6 MK II to check, but I'm sure you can do a quick test yourself).

This way, it forces the camera to underexpose when 1/250 is too low for keeping the right exposure while keeping the ISO in the range you've chosen.

Be careful to click "OK" after setting "Shutter speed range".

See : https://cam.start.canon/en/C012/manual/html/UG-09_Custom_0030.html

You can add those two settings to some My Menu tabs for convenience.

 

[Inevitable]

Dear DPR community,

I use an R6II and recently took pictures of people in slightly darker environments without flash and with the 50 1.8 STM. I used aperture priority mode (1.8 throughout) and shot with an automatic ISO between 100 and 6400. To avoid severe motion blur, I set the “minimum shutter speed” to 1/250 in the ISO menu (please see here example picture).

Now, in low light conditions, the camera reaches its limits with this setup and sets the ISO to 6400. The shutter speed should now be no longer than 1/250. I would expect the camera to stick to these values and produce a darker image. Instead, the camera “overwrites” the minimum shutter speed and sometimes goes up to 1/30.

I don’t understand how this can be, as I set clear limits for the camera. Am I overlooking a function? Or is this intentional behavior with the R6II?

Many thanks and best regards!

The only way I see to kind of automate the camera the way you're expecting is to set both :

• "Safety shift" (C.Fn1 Menu) to OFF and
• "Shutter speed range" (C.Fn2 Menu) to a "Lowest speed" of 250 (i.e. 1/250), or anything you need it to be

At least it works on R5 like this (I haven't got an R6 MK II to check, but I'm sure you can do a quick test yourself).

This way, it forces the camera to underexpose when 1/250 is too low for keeping the right exposure while keeping the ISO in the range you've chosen.

Be careful to click "OK" after setting "Shutter speed range".

See : https://cam.start.canon/en/C012/manual/html/UG-09_Custom_0030.html

You can add those two settings to some My Menu tabs for convenience.

As far as I understand this is the way the OP has the camera set. The OP issue is that the set 1/250 is NOT honoured. It's the way the majority, if not all, cameras work. If the 1/250 is too fast to obtain a correct exposure the camera sets a lower speed.

 

[Inevitable]

Safety shift is another, different, function, it isn't part of the ISO related set a minimum shutter speed dialog. Safety shift will alter aperture, SS or ISO in its function.

Perhaps I misunderstood the OP, but the Tv/Av: Shutter speed/Aperture option as described on page 839 seems to describe what happened.

The OP stated that when the selected ISO range ran out of range (couldn't obtain a correct exposure as it reached the set maximum of ISO 6400), the camera adjusted the shutter speed to a value less than the selected Min. shutter speed value.

From page 839 of R8 manual - "Safety shift overrides and changes to [ISO Speed Range] or [Min. shutter speed] from default settings if standard exposure cannot be obtained."

Manual - setting SS and Aperture allowing ISO to be flexible is the way to go. Fixing ISO as well as aperture and SS will fix the exposure.

Safety Shift is used to move a manually set value when the metering system requires it to.

For instance use Av, set a large aperture, say 1.8, and point at a bright scene. Depending on the other auto set values (SS/ISO) the 1.8 will probably be too large to expose correctly. With safety Shift disabled the image will be taken at the manually set 1.8 and the image will be too bright.

With safety Shift enabled, using TV/AV the camera will change your manually set aperture to a smaller value and the image will be taken.

Same but reversed when imaging a dark scene.

It is different functionality to that which the OP aspires to.

 

[Pierre Lagarde]

... As far as I understand this is the way the OP has the camera set. ...

No, he sets "Minimum shutter speed" in "ISO speed Settings" (SHOOT2), not "Lowest speed" in "Set shutter speed range" (C.Fn2) settings.

These are two different settings, and what I describe works as he's expecting (at least on R5).

+ "Safety Shift" (C.Fn1) also needs to be OFF for this to work.

Read the excerpt of the manual in the link I added.

 

[Inevitable]

... As far as I understand this is the way the OP has the camera set. ...

No, he sets "Minimum shutter speed" in "ISO speed Settings" (SHOOT2), not "Lowest speed" in "Set shutter speed range" (C.Fn2) settings.

These are two different settings, and what I describe works as he's expecting (at least on R5).

+ "Safety Shift" (C.Fn1) also needs to be OFF for this to work.

Read the excerpt of the manual in the link I added.

Yes, thanks for info.

It seems to be designed for something else (Manual and changing lenses/zooming) but, as you say, it does work in this scenario.

 

[Pierre Lagarde]

... As far as I understand this is the way the OP has the camera set. ...

No, he sets "Minimum shutter speed" in "ISO speed Settings" (SHOOT2), not "Lowest speed" in "Set shutter speed range" (C.Fn2) settings.

These are two different settings, and what I describe works as he's expecting (at least on R5).

+ "Safety Shift" (C.Fn1) also needs to be OFF for this to work.

Read the excerpt of the manual in the link I added.

Yes, thanks for info.

It seems to be designed for something else (Manual and changing lenses/zooming) but, as you say, it does work in this scenario.

Yes. Looks like "Shutter speed range" is more considered as a kind of manual setting by Canon.

Still I - as the OP - consider the behaviour is kind of strange/cumbersome...

It should logically be enough to set minimum shutter speed + safety shift OFF to allow to lock the speed floor... but as there's still a way to force it, in the end, I guess Canon has kind of addressed this need .

 

[Mark B.]

It's the same functionality exhibited on most, if not all, cameras.

If you want the functionality as you state use Manual, set an aperture, set a speed, and set IS0 to auto. Under the situation, as you describe, you will get the desired under exposure.

Yes, you're absolutely right. Well, we're actually beginners and hesitate to take photos manually. ;-)

But honestly, if I set limits for the system, I expect the camera to stick to them. With Auto ISO and the corresponding limits, the maximum value is not simply exceeded because the camera interprets it as too low (people would be outraged if that were the case). And I set both in the same menu!

By the way, the help dialog for this function does not mention the possibility of the shutter speed falling below the minimum.

For us, this is a clear failure.

If the camera operated as you wanted it to, you would have ended up with horribly underexposed images.

 

[5omeone]

... As far as I understand this is the way the OP has the camera set. ...

No, he sets "Minimum shutter speed" in "ISO speed Settings" (SHOOT2), not "Lowest speed" in "Set shutter speed range" (C.Fn2) settings.

These are two different settings, and what I describe works as he's expecting (at least on R5).

+ "Safety Shift" (C.Fn1) also needs to be OFF for this to work.

Read the excerpt of the manual in the link I added.

Yes, thanks for info.

It seems to be designed for something else (Manual and changing lenses/zooming) but, as you say, it does work in this scenario.

Yes. Looks like "Shutter speed range" is more considered as a kind of manual setting by Canon.

Still I - as the OP - consider the behaviour is kind of strange/cumbersome...

It should logically be enough to set minimum shutter speed + safety shift OFF to allow to lock the speed floor... but as there's still a way to force it, in the end, I guess Canon has kind of addressed this need .

Pierre is right, it's exactly the setting I chose. I've done some more research on it now, but I don't fully understand how the various functions work yet, although I do at least know how to deal with them.

I also find it confusing when functions that affect image capturing are spread across several menu sections - what's the point of that? The button assignment is custom, that's clear. But why is setting shutter speed limits a custom function? How is that different from ISO? Did someone mess up there?