PAL vs NTSC - What does that mean in practise?

[RussAdams]

Thanks Denis,

I'll keep this in mind when I go shopping for my next player.

Russ

Thats true for DVD players, and I hacked mine myself for multiregion playback of region 1 - 6 DVD disks, but not for Bluray. You would need a US Bluray player for US coded Blurays. But Bluray aside, I found UK DVD (multiregion) players able to playback NTSC, but US sourced NTSC players couldn't handle PAL. I think the problem was hardware-related.

The best bet is to buy a multi-system DVD player. These players can handle both types of DVD disk formats, and they can send their signal to either NTSC or PAL TV sets. An addtional benefit is that they can play DVDs from more than one region.

I heard that it is more common for PAL players to also be able to play NTSC, than US NTSC players able to play PAL. Found this while doing research on US/UK Sony BR players.

What it means is that if you play the video directly from the camera, it would only play on NTSC or PAL TV sets, depending on the camera. if you are a yank, and are planning to go back, then pick NTSC, which is the system used in the states. If you intend to stay in Europe for the foreseeable future, then pick PAL.

WHen you upload the video to your computer and convert them to DVD, the software can encode it in either PAL or NTSC formats. There are some DVD players that can play both PAL and NTSC DVDs and they can hook up to either a PAL or NTSC tv.

 

[Matix]

Not having an A77 to check on, I may be incorrect on this. All DSLR's I have owned to date including Nikon, Pentax, Panasonic G series have had a setting in the Setup menu to chose your TV standard, NTSC or PAL.

Regardless as many have said this is not an issue really, most TV's can handle the variance if needed. I have noticed that in the past VCR's and TV's sold in US and Canada would only handle NTSC while those from Europe and Australia would auto switch to handle either, this may still be the case but as I said, this has never been a problem for me personally.

Phil

Thanks Anastigmat!

This is sounding pretty good. I don't think NTSC v PAL is going to be an issue for me.

Russ

--
http://matix.zenfolio.com

 

[RussAdams]

Hi Phil,

There's been a lot of chatter on this. However the manual has finally become available, found in the Sony USA Support area, and I've been reading through it today.

Starting at page 113, the manual does not state outright that the cam will be one or the other. It looks like you might be able to select a FILE setting of AVCHD 60i/60p (NTSC) or AVCHD 50i/50p (PAL) or MP4.

So this may be a moot point.

It would be nice to know in advance.

Russ

Not having an A77 to check on, I may be incorrect on this. All DSLR's I have owned to date including Nikon, Pentax, Panasonic G series have had a setting in the Setup menu to chose your TV standard, NTSC or PAL.

Regardless as many have said this is not an issue really, most TV's can handle the variance if needed. I have noticed that in the past VCR's and TV's sold in US and Canada would only handle NTSC while those from Europe and Australia would auto switch to handle either, this may still be the case but as I said, this has never been a problem for me personally.

Phil

Thanks Anastigmat!

This is sounding pretty good. I don't think NTSC v PAL is going to be an issue for me.

Russ

--
http://matix.zenfolio.com

 

[Corkcampbell]

A33 gave a limit of about ten minutes with IS turned on. It didn't affect my recording; I just turned the IS off and stopped my recording every five or ten minutes. That way, by allowing the camera to rest and cool down occasionally it was easy to record events of an hour or two. My events were usually indoors and allowed me opportunities to stop recording without losing any of the important action. It also allowed me time to change batteries and/or switch cards.

I will probably use the same technique with the A77, which I have just ordered...despite knowing that the A65 is better suited to me (portability)...I swore off large cameras with grips when I sold my A700, but now I am back in that situation...what's worse is that I ordered the A77/grip while completely sober...

 

[mmhendrie]

mine is certainly not the most technical answer out there, but hopefully helpful to you.

I'm a Brit living in the US. I have a Canon HD vid camera that records in NTSC format. With my family all back in the UK, and an 11 month old baby, I've been making videos here in the States, making myself the standard NTSC format for our own keep-sakes, and burning a PAL-I version for folks back home. I used the same AVCD file to create both DVD's, merely set the DVD conversion/burn software to it's PAL setting instead of NTSC when I did the conversions.

I typically use Sony Vegas for all my video editing, then I render the final file, and run that file through a very basic DVD creating/burning program, and that's where i pop in the NTSC or PAL setting. This is what I use for that:

http://www.vso-software.fr/products/convert_x_to_dvd/

I've watched the NTSC version here on my HD set, and the complete PAL version (numerous times as it went through various family members!), on HD sets in the UK, and I couldn't tell a difference between them. I guess the governing point here is that my vid camera filming in NTSC mode didn't impact the ability to create either PAL or NTSC final products.

hope this helps,
Matt

 

[Denis247]

Have you tried sending a NTCS DVD to UK, chances are their player will play it ok.

But normally, this won't work in reverse, ie sending a PAL DVD to the US, although newer US players can now play both NTSC and PAL.

Further to my earlier post, that info is now a little out of date; there are players (Samsung, LG) that can play both multiregion (1-6) DVD's and multiregion ( A,B,C) Blu-rays.

mine is certainly not the most technical answer out there, but hopefully helpful to you.

I'm a Brit living in the US. I have a Canon HD vid camera that records in NTSC format. With my family all back in the UK, and an 11 month old baby, I've been making videos here in the States, making myself the standard NTSC format for our own keep-sakes, and burning a PAL-I version for folks back home. I used the same AVCD file to create both DVD's, merely set the DVD conversion/burn software to it's PAL setting instead of NTSC when I did the conversions.

I typically use Sony Vegas for all my video editing, then I render the final file, and run that file through a very basic DVD creating/burning program, and that's where i pop in the NTSC or PAL setting. This is what I use for that:

http://www.vso-software.fr/products/convert_x_to_dvd/

I've watched the NTSC version here on my HD set, and the complete PAL version (numerous times as it went through various family members!), on HD sets in the UK, and I couldn't tell a difference between them. I guess the governing point here is that my vid camera filming in NTSC mode didn't impact the ability to create either PAL or NTSC final products.

hope this helps,
Matt

 

[Corkcampbell]

for the purposes you cited - sending to relatives, etc.? I post my videos on YouTube, and for handing off a copy, I have versions that work with QuickTime, and other media players. With most people having a computer in the house with a large display, this is fine. I agree that a DVD is still useful for large-screen TVs in homes that are not equipped (or homeowners who are not equipped) to play files from their computers on them, but no one has asked me for plastic in about two years.

I work in the US, UK, and mostly in China, so I buy cameras in all three countries (including an A77 from Hong Kong yesterday) and haven't found the PAL/NTSC issue to be a problem; in fact, forgot about it until I saw this thread.

 

[RussAdams]

IT's great to know that you can switch it at the last moment.

Although it looks like the A77 is switchable in the menus.

I'll give it a go tomorrow.

Russ

 

[RussAdams]

It's also good to know what to look for in the next player purchase!

Thanks.

Russ

 

[mmhendrie]

personally - I use youtube for fun/short updates - "here's a 1 minute vid of the baby at swim class" etc. but use the DVD for bigger things. For example, I used about 45 minutes of footage to create a "1st 6 months" with footage from throughout my kids first 6 months. For something like that, with title plates, effects, etc., and in HD, it's worth it to me to create a nice memento DVD for family members - it's a good gift also. Gifting a youtube link is rough!!!

-Matt

 

[mmhendrie]

I posted a reply to this, but it doesn't seem to have appeared - I did trying NTSC format on UK dvd players, and found it hit and miss. For example, my dad has two players, one 2yr old, one about 6yr old - suprisingly the 6yr old player had an unlock code that allowed NTSC format to play, the 2yr old player did not.

I didn't poll the rest of my family as to what their players could handle, many wouldn't have any idea what i was talking about, so i tried the PAL conversion, it was as simple as creating the NTSC, so I went that route.

-Matt

 

[IanML]

IT's great to know that you can switch it at the last moment.

Although it looks like the A77 is switchable in the menus.

I'll give it a go tomorrow.

Russ

I think not - see page 114 of the manual - it appears that 60 or 50 fields is device dependent.

--
Ian

 

[RussAdams]

Yes, saw that earlier.

It's VERY unclear what it's attempting to inform.

Look at the previous page, 113:

MENU button -> 1 -> [File Format] -> Select the desired
format

AVCHD 60i/60p
AVCHD 50i/50p

then the top of page 114:

MP4

So it's not clear that 60/50 aren't going to both be there. I'm hoping all three options are there.

But don't think, in the end, it's going to matter much.

IT's great to know that you can switch it at the last moment.

Although it looks like the A77 is switchable in the menus.

I'll give it a go tomorrow.

Russ

I think not - see page 114 of the manual - it appears that 60 or 50 fields is device dependent.

--
Ian

 

[GodSpeaks]

This limit exists on the US version too. From the A77 manual page 230:

"The maximum continuous recording time is 29 minutes."

Really, that's a surprise. Although, it may be due to issues other than taxation. Maybe a sensor heating issue.

For me, I do need unlimited video recording capability.

--

The greatest of mankind's criminals are those who delude themselves into thinking they have done 'the right thing.'

• Rayna Butler

 

[ntsan]

Flicker is bad problem against artificial light, even though you can change shutter speed but it is still there. I used to have that problem with NTSC cam in PAL land, the night scene with light is impossible to watch unless you can bear the constant flickering. (I switched to cam with PAL recording at end)

This video describe the best
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNIUdyn-OLg

 

[Denis247]

Just fyi, some (many) players are a bit flaky when it comes to which type of blank dvd you started with, DVD-R or DVD+R. Generally DVD-R gives the greatest compatability. And don't get me started with dual-layer....

This only applies to self-recorded DVD's, commercial ones are produced differently and don't have this problem.

I posted a reply to this, but it doesn't seem to have appeared - I did trying NTSC format on UK dvd players, and found it hit and miss. For example, my dad has two players, one 2yr old, one about 6yr old - suprisingly the 6yr old player had an unlock code that allowed NTSC format to play, the 2yr old player did not.

I didn't poll the rest of my family as to what their players could handle, many wouldn't have any idea what i was talking about, so i tried the PAL conversion, it was as simple as creating the NTSC, so I went that route.

-Matt

 

[RussAdams]

Thanks ntsan,

I checked the links, I can see the nighttime flickering, especially under what looks like Mercury lighting.

Will keep this in mind.

Russ

 

[RussAdams]

Here's a summary of what I've been able to find out on the PAL v NTSC issue:

1. Charger

US/Canada get a charger with a plug that folds over into the charger to make a very compact unit. Everybody else gets a charger that you plug a power cord into. The head of the cord changes based on which country you are in. Easy to get a replacement cord in whatever country you live in. Or a plug adapter whichever you want. The charger itself is dual voltage, so any cheap adapter or plug cord will be fine. The charger uses the round figure eight type cord which is readily found.

2. PAL/NTSC connection to TV

As mentioned already in this thread, most modern tv's won't care and will automatically switch to either.

3. PAL/NTSC recording

If you want to give native DVD's, you will have to convert. Always a loss of quality on conversion. Will it be acceptable? Very personal.

4. PAL/NTSC lighting
Here's the biggest potential issue.

Lighting pulses on a 50 cycle for countries that use PAL and a 60 cycle in countries that use NTSC. If you record off cycle under strong lighting with a strong pulse you will see flickers. Florescent lighting is one such source of pulsing/flickers. For examples, go to YouTube and search for PAL NTSC Flicker. Here is one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wht8QUBSGg0

If video is important to you, and you will be shooting in florescent lighting (or mercury vapor outdoor street lights, etc) you will not be happy.

Note: As of firmware 1.02 the A77 is set to either PAL or NTSC and is NOT switchable in the camera. It would sure be nice to convince Sony to let the camera do both.

Russ

 

[mscottc]

If you are truly looking for professional video quality then the 50-60 issue is a big deal. And yes, more and more video pros are shooting with DSLRs for a variety of reasons. Even 15 or 20 years ago "standards conversions" were very difficult, and the gear to do it well was incredibly expensive. The boxes that are out there now to do it in the best possible way are still in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. On the other hand, free software packages running on personal computers can do it very inexpensively, but it is a matter of "you get what you pay for." Resolving the temporal (time based) resolutions of video with predictive frame blending is very processor intensive. That being said, if you're just doing home video, today's computer processes are pretty amazing. Some of the issues to look for if you want to be obsessive are field or frame and line blending, flutter, and softening of the video.

And yes, as others have pointed out, with the exception of that big light in the sky, most lighting equipment will flicker if frequencies don't match. In the news business, I deal with this quite often on shots that come to us from overseas. In my experience, fluorescent light seem to be the worst. YMMV

 

[cabinet guy]

Hi

I have a an a77 that is PAL(from HK) and am in the US. Can't watch it on my TV (slightly older model) and I CAN NOT switch the camera from PAL to NTSC.
That sure would be a handy feature though.
Cabinetguy