New build to last for a good while

[CBR1100XX]

Hi all,

I tend to use my main home PCs for long time and my current (intel-asus-nvidia) rig is getting to its end of life (it had some intermediate updates (I think PSU, MB and GPU along the way). I want to get a new PC that would last.

I read quite a few threads here and spent some time reviewing builds here and in pcartpicker, reading reviews and comparisons for various components, arriving to the below config.

Last year I built an AMD-Gigabyte box for/with my kid but for own use prefer Intel-Asus combo as it served me well. Primary use: easy office stuff, photo editing (hobby - Fuji X Raw Studio, perhaps Lightroom in the future), CSGO occasionally @4k (hence RTX3060, also with the idea that there will be more GPU-based compute for photo editing in the future).

• Intel Core i7-13700KF 3.4 GHz 16-Core Processor $390.99
• Fractal Design Define 7 Dark ATX Mid Tower Case $194.99
• CORSAIR RMx Shift Series RM850x Shift Fully Modular 80PLUS Gold ATX Power Supply $159.00
• Noctua NH-D15 chromax.black 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler $119.00
• Asus PRIME Z790-P WIFI ATX LGA1700 Motherboard $249.99
• Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-5600 CL36 Memory $144.97
• Samsung 990 Pro 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive $179.99
• Asus Phoenix GeForce RTX 3060 V2 GeForce RTX 3060 12GB 12 GB Video Card $359.00

Total: $1797.93

I dont like liquid cooling (replaced it on my current rig with air). There is a warning in PCpartspicker that the clearance for the Noctua cooler needs to be checked - any advise how to "model" that?

There is another warning that I may have to separately purchase a plate for Noctua cooler for this Asus board but it seems to be outdated, and Noctua should include the right plate nowadays.

Any concerns on the PSU or the Motherboard? As I had a MB melted and PSU burned in the past, I spent a LOT of time on figuring out which PSU to get (not easy without ramping the cost up to $300-400 on the PSU). So i decided to go with the newer Corsair although there are some reviewers complaining of the shifted cable panel not being good and cables being stiff. Any experience with this PSU in this case?

Storage - I plan to reuse existing drives and then will add another M.2 or HDD when I need more space.

One component I have not yet looked up - an SD card reader, I am sure there are ones that read quite fast nowdays, need to figure out what these are.

Also, the Noctua NH-D15 includes the thermal paste NT-H1, I've read up on it and it seems quite reputable so should be ok to use it.

I would appreciate any critique/suggestions from the pros here; I realize this is likely a bit of an overkill but I plan to grow into the config over the next few years.

Thanks very much and look forward to your comments!!!!

mark

For the CPU I'd get the regular K. The F saves you about 25 dollars but the iGPU can be a huge help for troubleshooting. Plus if you ever need to do anything video related quick sync can speed it up. VS the overall cost of the build it's one thing I'd spring for. (Edit: I'll leave this up but just saw that you already upgraded).

My worry about the case is just the cost. 200 is not cheap for a mid tower so what specifically is it from the 7 Dark that you want?

The question with the corsair PSU is who makes it. But it has a 10 year warranty so it's likely a good one since that could get expensive.

CPU cooler is a good choice. There are similarly performing ones for 30-50% less but Noctua is the big brand and they do support it going forward with new mounting kits so there's a reason they have a premium price.

MB/RAM/SSD all look good.

On the GPU the only thing I would add is that EVGA still has refurbs with a 1 year warranty. If you're tight on the budget for any upgrade it's 299.99 for a 3060. I got a 3060 Ti refurb partially out of sentimental value since I've had 3 EVGA GPUs in a row and their closing down that division. But I totally get wanting to go new as well.

So basically it's the CPU cooler/case/GPU which you have a little room to mess around on with price. One thing I would think about for future proofing it is an upgrade to 64 GB of RAM. Intel is better than AMD with DDR5 but I've been seeing issues with running 4 sticks so if you can move some things around to upgrade that it might be worth it... though waiting a few years until/if you need it you might be able to just get a 64GB kit for a fraction of what it costs now so this isn't a huge deal.

 

[T-Rex Mark]

Haha, that’s my point. When I had water cooling I could hear water in the system and it unsettled me and eventually I think it leaked or something else happened to it and I said never again.

appreciate the note on the memory. It is indeed 55mm according to Corsair so I will have to look really carefully when I get back to the desktop.

thanks a lot!!

mark

I was going to suggest using an NH-U12A instead. It's used in a configuration by Puget Systems . It appears that its RAM clearance issue is the same as the NH-D15 with the fan in the nominal location, though. However, it's 158mm tall with the fan in the nominal location. It may be possible to raise the fan enough to clear the Corsair RAM.

(Or, just go with low-profile RAM without the RGB foo-foos. ;-) )

That might be the way to go; quite likely I'm missing something, but there doesn't look to be a lot of other RGB lighting in that build; I'd be inclined to go with the better cooler over a couple of lonely glowing memory sticks.

So far, I've had no leaks with AIO coolers. Or gurgling. I've made sure to have the high point of the radiator above the pump, so there is no trapped air in the pump.

Yes, my radiator is in the top of the PC, blowing out. Very quiet, with the fan speed curve at a minimum when CPU temps are less than 70C and the pump running at a default 900 or so RPM.

I didn't get RGB memory; I didn't want the glow to detract from the lovely 'infinity mirror' LED ring on the AIO pump cap. ;-)

Yep, I was quite minimalistic on the RGB bling, these sticks were the only attraction.

Thanks Bob for noticing the conflict, indeed, the choices are:

1 get rid of RGB sticks

2 drop one fan (which according to experiments would lead to ~3C temp increase)

3 turn the whole cooler around

4 go with NH-U12A and raise the fan

As much as I liked the aesthetics of the Dominator, I am leaning to utility over beauty :-(

#4 - 120mm fans instead of 140mm, likely somewhat less efficient cooler design

#3 - not sure this is even possible, also I am not sure whats on the other side and what would this do to the air flow

#2 - seems like a significant enough tradeoff (albeit only 3C why go with this massive cooler in the first place)

Will need to do more thinking / research on this. Kind of surprising but something got to give

Thanks again!!!!

Mark

RGB sticks from Corsair:

Corsair Vengeance (DDR5)35mmCorsair Vengeance LED (DDR4)49mm

Corsair Vengeance LPX (DDR4)34mmCorsair Vengeance RGB Pro (DDR4)51mm

Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro SL (DDR4)45mmCorsair Vengeance RGB RS (DDR4)45mm

Corsair Vengeance RGB RT (DDR4)45mm

Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB (DDR4)56mm

Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB (DDR5)56mm

Corsair Dominator Platinum SE (DDR4)55mm

 

[T-Rex Mark]

Actually, it looks like I have two choices:

1. 2 fans on NH-D15 and DDR5 by these vendors (if i read this right): https://ncc.noctua.at/coolers/NH-D15-chromax.black-3/ram/DDR5/12/all?q=ddr5

SK Hynix DDR5 DIMM, ADATA DDR5 DIMM Kit, Crucial DDR5 DIMM

or

2. 1 140mm fan on NH-D15 and any supported memory (they all seem to be under 66mm

or

3. 2 120mm fans on NH-U12a and raise one fan with supported memory

Hmmm, dont know anything about those three DDR5 memory makers besides Crucial. May be 3C degrees is not that much

Will need to sleep on this.

Cheers,

mark

Haha, that’s my point. When I had water cooling I could hear water in the system and it unsettled me and eventually I think it leaked or something else happened to it and I said never again.

appreciate the note on the memory. It is indeed 55mm according to Corsair so I will have to look really carefully when I get back to the desktop.

thanks a lot!!

mark

I was going to suggest using an NH-U12A instead. It's used in a configuration by Puget Systems . It appears that its RAM clearance issue is the same as the NH-D15 with the fan in the nominal location, though. However, it's 158mm tall with the fan in the nominal location. It may be possible to raise the fan enough to clear the Corsair RAM.

(Or, just go with low-profile RAM without the RGB foo-foos. ;-) )

That might be the way to go; quite likely I'm missing something, but there doesn't look to be a lot of other RGB lighting in that build; I'd be inclined to go with the better cooler over a couple of lonely glowing memory sticks.

So far, I've had no leaks with AIO coolers. Or gurgling. I've made sure to have the high point of the radiator above the pump, so there is no trapped air in the pump.

Yes, my radiator is in the top of the PC, blowing out. Very quiet, with the fan speed curve at a minimum when CPU temps are less than 70C and the pump running at a default 900 or so RPM.

I didn't get RGB memory; I didn't want the glow to detract from the lovely 'infinity mirror' LED ring on the AIO pump cap. ;-)

Yep, I was quite minimalistic on the RGB bling, these sticks were the only attraction.

Thanks Bob for noticing the conflict, indeed, the choices are:

1 get rid of RGB sticks

2 drop one fan (which according to experiments would lead to ~3C temp increase)

3 turn the whole cooler around

4 go with NH-U12A and raise the fan

As much as I liked the aesthetics of the Dominator, I am leaning to utility over beauty :-(

#4 - 120mm fans instead of 140mm, likely somewhat less efficient cooler design

#3 - not sure this is even possible, also I am not sure whats on the other side and what would this do to the air flow

#2 - seems like a significant enough tradeoff (albeit only 3C why go with this massive cooler in the first place)

Will need to do more thinking / research on this. Kind of surprising but something got to give

Thanks again!!!!

Mark

RGB sticks from Corsair:

Corsair Vengeance (DDR5)35mmCorsair Vengeance LED (DDR4)49mm

Corsair Vengeance LPX (DDR4)34mmCorsair Vengeance RGB Pro (DDR4)51mm

Corsair Vengeance RGB Pro SL (DDR4)45mmCorsair Vengeance RGB RS (DDR4)45mm

Corsair Vengeance RGB RT (DDR4)45mm

Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB (DDR4)56mm

Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB (DDR5)56mm

Corsair Dominator Platinum SE (DDR4)55mm

 

[Robert Zanatta]

You could try a D15s and put a 120mm fan in the front. That and raising the fan will give you 10 to 15 mm.

https://noctua.at/en/nh-d15s/specification

Or go with slower RAM. Some DDR5 6000 kits are lower height.

 

[T-Rex Mark]

Quite a rig. I agree about the processor and avoiding the F versions.

T-Rex, you are definitely ready for the space age.

thanks!! looks like my space ligthted RGB is in conflict with the massive cooler so we are not there yet

Parts these days are pretty good, but I would choose components based on service reputations.

Which motherboard OEM (Asus, MSI, Gigabyte, etc.) responds best if you do have to RMA one. Also, any different in BIOS upgrade reliability; convenience. Had an ASRock board once, did a nice job of querying and pulling down the BIOS from the Internet.

Yes, somehow i have that "good feel" about Asus albeit I have not dealt with RMA for them, the quality has been good - but my testing sample is small. My kids both used Gigabyte's Aorus and I was quite impressed with modern utility and "designed for DIYers" mentality.

Thanks a lot for the comment!!

cheers,

mark

 

[T-Rex Mark]

Thanks Robert, this actually could work:

- start with a single fan and DDR5 memory of choice (tall is fine)

- add second fan if needed in the future but add 120 mm (I suppose there are some ways to secure it in the bracket

I looked at the brands Noctua lists as acceptable with the cooler, only Adata, Crucial, SK Hynix with DDR5 designation. However from Asus, from this list, only Adata are listed as supported for the MB. I will look into it.

Noctua link

Asus Link

I will look more into this.

I am also looking at what people do with similar builds with this cooler - folks do ask similar questions, need to process all the examples, looks like somehow there are indeed ddr5 with RGB hiding under the second fan, different MBs though. More research...

PCPartsPicker link (search for asus tuf z790 plus)

Cheers,

mark

You could try a D15s and put a 120mm fan in the front. That and raising the fan will give you 10 to 15 mm.

https://noctua.at/en/nh-d15s/specification

Or go with slower RAM. Some DDR5 6000 kits are lower height.

 

[T-Rex Mark]

Thank you both!

I am good on this but certainly is a valid consideration (i will be moving 4 SATA drives from old PC). The new MB has 4 M.2 and 4 SATA, will check if there are any overlap between the utilization of both but looks ok.

https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA1700/TUF_GAMING_Z790-PLUS_WIFI/E21279_TUF_GAMING_Z790-PLUS_WIFI_UM_WEB.pdf?model=TUF%20GAMING%20Z790-PLUS%20WIFI

I'm not familiar with that board but I'd suggest more than one M.2 SSD slot. Also makes it easier to upgrade.

Good idea. I have a lower end MSI Z-490-A Pro board and even it has 2 M.2 slots.

OP: Read your manual. Use of some M.2 slots may preclude use of a given SATA port.

 

[T-Rex Mark]

Thanks CBR!

On case, mainly aesthetics and good review on ease of use for building and modularity. It seems sturdy, good air flow, plenty of screened vents. I will probably look a bit more if there is place for optimization.

Once i settle all the parts and get to ordering I will also look at the refurb GPUs but carefully

Thanks very much!

mark

Hi all,

I tend to use my main home PCs for long time and my current (intel-asus-nvidia) rig is getting to its end of life (it had some intermediate updates (I think PSU, MB and GPU along the way). I want to get a new PC that would last.

I read quite a few threads here and spent some time reviewing builds here and in pcartpicker, reading reviews and comparisons for various components, arriving to the below config.

Last year I built an AMD-Gigabyte box for/with my kid but for own use prefer Intel-Asus combo as it served me well. Primary use: easy office stuff, photo editing (hobby - Fuji X Raw Studio, perhaps Lightroom in the future), CSGO occasionally @4k (hence RTX3060, also with the idea that there will be more GPU-based compute for photo editing in the future).

• Intel Core i7-13700KF 3.4 GHz 16-Core Processor $390.99
• Fractal Design Define 7 Dark ATX Mid Tower Case $194.99
• CORSAIR RMx Shift Series RM850x Shift Fully Modular 80PLUS Gold ATX Power Supply $159.00
• Noctua NH-D15 chromax.black 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler $119.00
• Asus PRIME Z790-P WIFI ATX LGA1700 Motherboard $249.99
• Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-5600 CL36 Memory $144.97
• Samsung 990 Pro 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive $179.99
• Asus Phoenix GeForce RTX 3060 V2 GeForce RTX 3060 12GB 12 GB Video Card $359.00

Total: $1797.93

I dont like liquid cooling (replaced it on my current rig with air). There is a warning in PCpartspicker that the clearance for the Noctua cooler needs to be checked - any advise how to "model" that?

There is another warning that I may have to separately purchase a plate for Noctua cooler for this Asus board but it seems to be outdated, and Noctua should include the right plate nowadays.

Any concerns on the PSU or the Motherboard? As I had a MB melted and PSU burned in the past, I spent a LOT of time on figuring out which PSU to get (not easy without ramping the cost up to $300-400 on the PSU). So i decided to go with the newer Corsair although there are some reviewers complaining of the shifted cable panel not being good and cables being stiff. Any experience with this PSU in this case?

Storage - I plan to reuse existing drives and then will add another M.2 or HDD when I need more space.

One component I have not yet looked up - an SD card reader, I am sure there are ones that read quite fast nowdays, need to figure out what these are.

Also, the Noctua NH-D15 includes the thermal paste NT-H1, I've read up on it and it seems quite reputable so should be ok to use it.

I would appreciate any critique/suggestions from the pros here; I realize this is likely a bit of an overkill but I plan to grow into the config over the next few years.

Thanks very much and look forward to your comments!!!!

mark

For the CPU I'd get the regular K. The F saves you about 25 dollars but the iGPU can be a huge help for troubleshooting. Plus if you ever need to do anything video related quick sync can speed it up. VS the overall cost of the build it's one thing I'd spring for. (Edit: I'll leave this up but just saw that you already upgraded).

My worry about the case is just the cost. 200 is not cheap for a mid tower so what specifically is it from the 7 Dark that you want?

The question with the corsair PSU is who makes it. But it has a 10 year warranty so it's likely a good one since that could get expensive.

CPU cooler is a good choice. There are similarly performing ones for 30-50% less but Noctua is the big brand and they do support it going forward with new mounting kits so there's a reason they have a premium price.

MB/RAM/SSD all look good.

On the GPU the only thing I would add is that EVGA still has refurbs with a 1 year warranty. If you're tight on the budget for any upgrade it's 299.99 for a 3060. I got a 3060 Ti refurb partially out of sentimental value since I've had 3 EVGA GPUs in a row and their closing down that division. But I totally get wanting to go new as well.

So basically it's the CPU cooler/case/GPU which you have a little room to mess around on with price. One thing I would think about for future proofing it is an upgrade to 64 GB of RAM. Intel is better than AMD with DDR5 but I've been seeing issues with running 4 sticks so if you can move some things around to upgrade that it might be worth it... though waiting a few years until/if you need it you might be able to just get a 64GB kit for a fraction of what it costs now so this isn't a huge deal.

 

[T-Rex Mark]

Thank you foot! I will look into a single stick but it seems to be hard to find - everyone seems to sell in pairs but good idea, on DDR5 the single stick performance drop is moreless negligible, dont know if htere are any stability considerations since most of the testing is probably done with 2 sticks.

Hi all,

I tend to use my main home PCs for long time and my current (intel-asus-nvidia) rig is getting to its end of life (it had some intermediate updates (I think PSU, MB and GPU along the way). I want to get a new PC that would last.

I read quite a few threads here and spent some time reviewing builds here and in pcartpicker, reading reviews and comparisons for various components, arriving to the below config.

Last year I built an AMD-Gigabyte box for/with my kid but for own use prefer Intel-Asus combo as it served me well. Primary use: easy office stuff, photo editing (hobby - Fuji X Raw Studio, perhaps Lightroom in the future), CSGO occasionally @4k (hence RTX3060, also with the idea that there will be more GPU-based compute for photo editing in the future).

• Intel Core i7-13700KF 3.4 GHz 16-Core Processor $390.99
• Fractal Design Define 7 Dark ATX Mid Tower Case $194.99
• CORSAIR RMx Shift Series RM850x Shift Fully Modular 80PLUS Gold ATX Power Supply $159.00
• Noctua NH-D15 chromax.black 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler $119.00
• Asus PRIME Z790-P WIFI ATX LGA1700 Motherboard $249.99
• Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR5-5600 CL36 Memory $144.97
• Samsung 990 Pro 2 TB M.2-2280 PCIe 4.0 X4 NVME Solid State Drive $179.99
• Asus Phoenix GeForce RTX 3060 V2 GeForce RTX 3060 12GB 12 GB Video Card $359.00

Total: $1797.93

I dont like liquid cooling (replaced it on my current rig with air). There is a warning in PCpartspicker that the clearance for the Noctua cooler needs to be checked - any advise how to "model" that?

There is another warning that I may have to separately purchase a plate for Noctua cooler for this Asus board but it seems to be outdated, and Noctua should include the right plate nowadays.

Any concerns on the PSU or the Motherboard? As I had a MB melted and PSU burned in the past, I spent a LOT of time on figuring out which PSU to get (not easy without ramping the cost up to $300-400 on the PSU). So i decided to go with the newer Corsair although there are some reviewers complaining of the shifted cable panel not being good and cables being stiff. Any experience with this PSU in this case?

Storage - I plan to reuse existing drives and then will add another M.2 or HDD when I need more space.

One component I have not yet looked up - an SD card reader, I am sure there are ones that read quite fast nowdays, need to figure out what these are.

Also, the Noctua NH-D15 includes the thermal paste NT-H1, I've read up on it and it seems quite reputable so should be ok to use it.

I would appreciate any critique/suggestions from the pros here; I realize this is likely a bit of an overkill but I plan to grow into the config over the next few years.

Thanks very much and look forward to your comments!!!!

mark

suggest 1x 32gig instead of 2x 16 gig

the performance difference should be minor and it would be less expensive to upgrade later on

I'm not familiar with that board but I'd suggest more than one M.2 SSD slot. Also makes it easier to upgrade

also both the spinners and SSD can get hot!! so should have their own cooling

otherwise you might experience "thermal throttling"...(when the computer detects thermal issues and slows the device down until it cools off)

I just went thru this with my laptop...lol

 

[BobKnDP]

You could also consider a cooler that would avoid the interference by design.

Example: Macho MAXX – Thermalright

I'm unfamiliar with it, but Thermalright is a serious competitor to Noctua. One reviewer has the Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 as superior to the NH-D15, at a much lower price (if you don't go for one of the more highly accessorized models).

 

[CBR1100XX]

Thanks CBR!

On case, mainly aesthetics and good review on ease of use for building and modularity. It seems sturdy, good air flow, plenty of screened vents. I will probably look a bit more if there is place for optimization.

Once i settle all the parts and get to ordering I will also look at the refurb GPUs but carefully

Thanks very much!

mark

No problem. There's a lot of great cases out there today and 200 is a decent budget to look around with.

Oh and with the CPU cooler discussion I definitely would go D15 over an NH-U12a no matter what you need to do with the fans or mix matching them because that added surface area is going to be key. That i7-13700k can draw up to 280W stock, an i9-12900k is about 245 for comparison. So the U12a is just way under spec'd for that CPU. It's more of a fit for an i5-13600k which is ~160W.

I mean it'll run with the U12a, it'll just thermal throttle a lot more.

 

[CBR1100XX]

Thank you foot! I will look into a single stick but it seems to be hard to find - everyone seems to sell in pairs but good idea, on DDR5 the single stick performance drop is moreless negligible, dont know if htere are any stability considerations since most of the testing is probably done with 2 sticks.

Depending on the application this could hurt the performance since you are losing half your memory bandwidth. It's not as bad as a single stick of DDR4, but it would basically be like running a low to mid range DDR4 kit if it scales with the MT.

 

[T-Rex Mark]

Sadly, we may never again see the concentration of photographic and technical know-how that we've had on DPReview.

Thanks for your work.

Thank you, and all our other regulars, for the contributions that made this forum great (IMO).

Overall, I am constantly blown away by the experience, abilities, credentials and helpfulness of people who contribute regularly to these forums, especially the ones I've focused on in recent years: PC; Mac; Printers and Adapted Lenses.

I learned a lot from the Photographic Science and Technology forum, as well from as the many arguments in Open Talk; once I had it figured out who there had a clue or more, and who was an obstinate ignoramus.

Just wanted to also say thanks for moderation and all the input over the years. While i use other resources in DPR, it is the Forums that are most valuable. The community is amazing - this is so true what Gesture said about the unbelievable collection of people and expertise here in the Forums. I mainly participate in Fuji, come here time to time, and just recently have gotten into adapted lenses (or should i say addictive lenses ;-), so i would be coming there more often.

I secretly hope that Amazon would retain the forums - from keeping the "archive" - the cost of storage and maintenance of the Forum webpages is quite insignificant on the scale of things. Otherwise, i am certain we will all somehow gravitate to a different place, it will just take time for us all to regather there and the place to become as fit-for-purpose as here.

Thanks again for the moderation and great insight!

 

[BobKnDP]

Thanks CBR!

On case, mainly aesthetics and good review on ease of use for building and modularity. It seems sturdy, good air flow, plenty of screened vents. I will probably look a bit more if there is place for optimization.

Once i settle all the parts and get to ordering I will also look at the refurb GPUs but carefully

Thanks very much!

mark

No problem. There's a lot of great cases out there today and 200 is a decent budget to look around with.

Oh and with the CPU cooler discussion I definitely would go D15 over an NH-U12a no matter what you need to do with the fans or mix matching them because that added surface area is going to be key. That i7-13700k can draw up to 280W stock, an i9-12900k is about 245 for comparison. So the U12a is just way under spec'd for that CPU. It's more of a fit for an i5-13600k which is ~160W.

I mean it'll run with the U12a, it'll just thermal throttle a lot more.

I haven't done it, but thermal throttling can be avoided by setting the power limits for the CPU in the BIOS. The claim is that the peak performance isn't affected much.

I speculate that is how Puget Systems makes a reliable system with an I9-13900K and an NH-U12A cooler. I imagine that appliance PC makers like Dell do the same. (The coolers on their XPS 8950 systems seem small.)

 

[CBR1100XX]

Thanks CBR!

On case, mainly aesthetics and good review on ease of use for building and modularity. It seems sturdy, good air flow, plenty of screened vents. I will probably look a bit more if there is place for optimization.

Once i settle all the parts and get to ordering I will also look at the refurb GPUs but carefully

Thanks very much!

mark

No problem. There's a lot of great cases out there today and 200 is a decent budget to look around with.

Oh and with the CPU cooler discussion I definitely would go D15 over an NH-U12a no matter what you need to do with the fans or mix matching them because that added surface area is going to be key. That i7-13700k can draw up to 280W stock, an i9-12900k is about 245 for comparison. So the U12a is just way under spec'd for that CPU. It's more of a fit for an i5-13600k which is ~160W.

I mean it'll run with the U12a, it'll just thermal throttle a lot more.

I haven't done it, but thermal throttling can be avoided by setting the power limits for the CPU in the BIOS. The claim is that the peak performance isn't affected much.

I speculate that is how Puget Systems makes a reliable system with an I9-13900K and an NH-U12A cooler. I imagine that appliance PC makers like Dell do the same. (The coolers on their XPS 8950 systems seem small.)

I can't remember the exact source but that's what I heard. Puget like Dell has a set TAU which is the time for the higher PL2 (power level 2) and drop down to the much lower PL1. Motherboard manufacturers started to have PL2 set to go continuously and the last few generations Intel has made this the stock behavior. So you get the full performance for ~1 minute IIRC and then it drops off.

 

[T-Rex Mark]

You could also consider a cooler that would avoid the interference by design.

Example: Macho MAXX – Thermalright

I'm unfamiliar with it, but Thermalright is a serious competitor to Noctua. One reviewer has the Thermalright Peerless Assassin 120 as superior to the NH-D15, at a much lower price (if you don't go for one of the more highly accessorized models).

Wow, I am studying the comps. This may be a fairly reasonable solution. Macho MAXX is 1dbA louder but i dont think thats noticeable. And it is lighter. Have not gotten to the Assassin yet.

 

[Austinian]

Sadly, we may never again see the concentration of photographic and technical know-how that we've had on DPReview.

Thanks for your work.

Thank you, and all our other regulars, for the contributions that made this forum great (IMO).

Overall, I am constantly blown away by the experience, abilities, credentials and helpfulness of people who contribute regularly to these forums, especially the ones I've focused on in recent years: PC; Mac; Printers and Adapted Lenses.

I learned a lot from the Photographic Science and Technology forum, as well from as the many arguments in Open Talk; once I had it figured out who there had a clue or more, and who was an obstinate ignoramus.

Just wanted to also say thanks for moderation and all the input over the years.

You're welcome.

While i use other resources in DPR, it is the Forums that are most valuable.

I think so too--I care little about most of the rest of DPR; the forums have been my real learning tool.

The community is amazing - this is so true what Gesture said about the unbelievable collection of people and expertise here in the Forums. I mainly participate in Fuji, come here time to time, and just recently have gotten into adapted lenses (or should i say addictive lenses ;-), so i would be coming there more often.

I secretly hope that Amazon would retain the forums - from keeping the "archive" - the cost of storage and maintenance of the Forum webpages is quite insignificant on the scale of things.

I entirely agree.

Otherwise, i am certain we will all somehow gravitate to a different place, it will just take time for us all to regather there and the place to become as fit-for-purpose as here.

I would hope that's the case, but for now it looks like we're dispersing to a variety of sites. It won't be the same, at least for a while.

Thanks again for the moderation and great insight!

Much appreciated!

Just a few general comments about your ongoing PC config process:

With the difficulties you've had in getting a big heatsink and tall memory to cooperate, you can see why some of us have thrown up our hands in despair and gone with water cooling. But I do understand your concerns.

I personally would prioritize a high-efficiency air cooler over memory aesthetics; high-end 13th gen CPUs can produce a lot of heat, and I value quiet operation highly.

But since this is a desktop PC, 'versatility R us', there's nothing in the build you can't modify in the future if you think it's necessary--there are few irrevocable decisions!

 

[T-Rex Mark]

Thanks Austinian!

After doing all the mix and matching yesterday night around memory and air coolers, I woke up with my hands at least partially thrown up and started researching the AIOs water cooling! I suppose you are running DeepCool Liquid Cooler LT720 since you mentioned infinity mirror.

I think my only other water vs air challenge (besides the pump noises and generally higher noise levels from the fans) is longevity of service but seems like your older one you mentioned in the other post runs just fine for years.

On the air side, I have not fully given up, and the earlier suggestion of reviewing other coolers (without second fan) is still applicable. I just really liked the Noctua look and efficiency.

However reading more, i am having second thoughts on the size and weight and actually thinking that creeping over time could be an equivalent challenge to fluid issues in water cooling in terms of long term issues. And looking at the AOI builds they do look so much cleaner.

Sadly, we may never again see the concentration of photographic and technical know-how that we've had on DPReview.

Thanks for your work.

Thank you, and all our other regulars, for the contributions that made this forum great (IMO).

Overall, I am constantly blown away by the experience, abilities, credentials and helpfulness of people who contribute regularly to these forums, especially the ones I've focused on in recent years: PC; Mac; Printers and Adapted Lenses.

I learned a lot from the Photographic Science and Technology forum, as well from as the many arguments in Open Talk; once I had it figured out who there had a clue or more, and who was an obstinate ignoramus.

Just wanted to also say thanks for moderation and all the input over the years.

You're welcome.

While i use other resources in DPR, it is the Forums that are most valuable.

I think so too--I care little about most of the rest of DPR; the forums have been my real learning tool.

The community is amazing - this is so true what Gesture said about the unbelievable collection of people and expertise here in the Forums. I mainly participate in Fuji, come here time to time, and just recently have gotten into adapted lenses (or should i say addictive lenses ;-), so i would be coming there more often.

I secretly hope that Amazon would retain the forums - from keeping the "archive" - the cost of storage and maintenance of the Forum webpages is quite insignificant on the scale of things.

I entirely agree.

Otherwise, i am certain we will all somehow gravitate to a different place, it will just take time for us all to regather there and the place to become as fit-for-purpose as here.

I would hope that's the case, but for now it looks like we're dispersing to a variety of sites. It won't be the same, at least for a while.

Thanks again for the moderation and great insight!

Much appreciated!

Just a few general comments about your ongoing PC config process:

With the difficulties you've had in getting a big heatsink and tall memory to cooperate, you can see why some of us have thrown up our hands in despair and gone with water cooling. But I do understand your concerns.

I personally would prioritize a high-efficiency air cooler over memory aesthetics; high-end 13th gen CPUs can produce a lot of heat, and I value quiet operation highly.

But since this is a desktop PC, 'versatility R us', there's nothing in the build you can't modify in the future if you think it's necessary--there are few irrevocable decisions!

 

[T-Rex Mark]

Thanks again to everyone who responded. I thought it was all cool until the cooling caused some challenges. Most of DDR5 (with or without RGB) is taller than Noctua's 32mm clearance.

I checked with Corsair's presales and they confirmed they have no DDR5 under 32mm at this time. The only vendor Noctua noted is Adata - I have no reference to their performance / reliability whatsoever and I have not researched it.

So, sticking with air, I am limited to:

1 - install Noctua with 2 fans replacing the second one with 120mm and raising it slightly (or just shifting it up as my case permits and Noctua says its ok to do with the original fan)

2 - choose a single fan design: Noctua NH-D15S or Macho MAXX by Thermalright

3 - shift the 2nd fan to the back of the unit

Or - forget those towering air coolers and shift to AIO water cooling

With all the earlier opposition to water I am starting to shift there - cleaner build, no mods to hardware, lots of efficient choices, no compromises on memory. The downside - they seem to be a bit louder and I am not sure they would live as long as the air ones.

I did find some builds where people are using Noctua cooler with taller memory - not sure what route they have taken.

Thanks again for all the input!

Cheers,

mark

example 1: found a build where the builder went with option #1, looks reasonably neat and sounds simple: https://pcpartpicker.com/b/j3hgXL

example 2: found a build where the builder went with option #2 with Noctua and believes it may outperform water cooling - hmm towering air looks appealing again

Quoting from here: "I personally have the D15S with the Chromax covers and fan because I prefer the look. But considering the cost, if I were on any sort of budget, I'd of gone with the Macho RT. Here's my rig"

example 3: moving the second fan backwards which actually does not sound as involved and may not have any other tradeoffs:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Noctua/comments/cxe6f6/noctua_d15_2nd_fan_placement

(build)

 

[Robert Zanatta]

If you're case can fit it, Arctic II. Quiet, simplest cabling, and very good performance.