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Mk3 and AF - what if it couldn't be fixed with a firmware update?

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ReneH

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I have this camera and I have another week or so to decide whether to send it back and hang on to my 1DM2N or keep it. I used it for the first time yesterday and took over 400 shots of hummingbirds in flight mostly using AI Servo. The vast majority of shots were in focus...but it still concerns me that there may be issues that I haven't uncovered yet. I plan on testing the camera with different lenses under different conditions to see if encounter the AF issues.

Question...if Canon did finally fess up that there were AF issues but they couldn't be fixed by a firmware update, do you think they'd do a recall of some sort? I have to believe that Canon would stand behind their customers and do whatever it takes to make them happy, even if it entailed a very expensive fix - and even more so for a pro body.

--
My galleries:
http://www.focusingonnature.com
 
We are speculating of course.

My guts feeling is that there is a problem with the redesigned optical part of the AF system. This is why I will wait purchasing one and stick to my mkII until the problem is sorted.

However I do expect that if there is ineed a hardware problem, canon will fix it for users that send in their camera for repair.

I once had a quite similar AF problem that the MKIII seems to suffer from (more OOF images in a burst than would be considered normal), with my MKII. The problem was caused by a malfunction of the small AF mirror. For some shots this mirror was not in the right rest position when the AF system started to refocus between images. It was solved by Canon.
 
So let's say they have to do some pretty major repairs, like replace the logic board and AF Sensor array. What does that mean? If recent recall issues are any indicator Canon would set up a phone number to call. You would call it and get a reservation. Prior to the reservation date a shipping container would appear. You box up your camera and send it in. In a week or two you have a fixed camera.

--
jerryk.smugmug.com
 
i would return it. i called my local shop last week to find out the best way of sending in my MKIII for AF repairs. the manager at my local store just told me that he will more than likely be able to get me a whole new camera instead. it pays to be a good loyal customer and get that kind of "service".

i got mine in May. for what it is worth only "one" out of all MKIII's sold from my local store have been returned. the guy that did return it immediatley got a different body.(within the typical 14 day return policy).

if we can assume that there are "good" ones and "bad" ones...why be stuck with anything that doesnt feel satisfactory.

im not overly optimistic that the new one i get will be any better but at least i have a chance.

your MKIII...dump it and try another copy!!! let canon eat it.

i think we will be waiting a long time before Canon steps up to the plate. also, i may be mistaken but...i cant remember seeing any posts here of someone sending their MKKIII in for AF repair with a satisfactory MKIII on return. if anyone know of a post here...i would appreciate a link to see what the exprerience was.

good luck,
david
http://www.davidprobst.com
 
Is that there is a layer of problems. One may be that the designers made assumptions about how people shoot that is very different than some users, especially wildlife photographers. Perhaps it was aimed more at sports.

Two, as mentioned, a new AF array design may be the cause, or some other mechanical issue, maybe even the anti dust mechanism.

Or it could be software or firmware, some algorithm that is doing the unexpected.

I have been involved in serious design issues on new product releases where it took months to even duplicate the customer problems, let alone solve it. Then more months fixing it, and sometimes the product dies as a result. The Lockheed Electra comes to mind, the wings were falling off and the planes were crashing. That was in 1962, and the commercial version quickly died. The sub hunter version is still flying I think.

Ben

--
http://www.pbase.com/roserus/root

Ben
 
Thanks for weighing in guys. Like I said, so far so good with the Mk3 and no immediate reason to return it...I haven't had any AF problems so far, just curious what might happen if Canon were to admit to a hardware issue that wasn't fixable via firmware.

--
My galleries:
http://www.focusingonnature.com
 
Who knows what will transpire. You are betting $4500us that they will handle it. Is that a good bet given that you have a functional N camera.

If it was my money under these circumstances I would not have bought in the first place (and I intend to buy one when the issues are behind Canon).

I am not sure how you win, just break even or worst.

bp
 
I don't have a Mk III but am watching this issue as it may relate to a forthcoming 1Ds II replacement ... and from general interest.
If it turns out to be a software problem, Canon will of course fix it.

If it turns out to be a hardware problem that can only be addressed by a hardware repair, I expect Canon will fix it.

My concern would be that it turns out to be a hardware design flaw that can be mostly, but not completely, fixed by a software workaround - that may be the "fix".
--
equipment inventory in profile
 
You state you have taken over 400 shots of hummingbirds whose wings flap between 10-70 times per second depending upon the specieis AND that the "vast majority of your images were in focus" and you are asking if you should return it?

I just got back from Montana and have many images of hummingbirds and had similar experience as yours. I got my MKIII with B&H's first shipment, have shot many images at this point and am very happy-at this point you would have to rip it out of my hands. Recently got rid of my 1DS to get a 400 DO and with few exceptions, like the MKIII better.

It doesn't sound like you are having problems so why return it? If there is no firmware fix for what people are having issues with, use the camera that is currently performing, it appears properly, and send it in if there is indeed a recall.

Your pictures validate your purchase and not RG's findings or anyone else's for that matter.
 
Byron,

Your point about not buying it in the first place is the real issue in light that the poster has a IIN and obviously purchased after RG and other reviews/comments.

I got mine very early, love the camera, wouldn't think about selling (or returning if I could) particularly given the results the poster is claiming he/she is getting.
 
if it's your livelihood. you can't afford to take the chance of it failing on the job.

if it's just your hobby, then reliability isn't really that mission critical. you can afford to take your chances w/the mk3.

personally, i'm hoping that in a year, canon will have this fixed. if not, then i'll wait longer.
 
Thanks for the tip...I didn't realize that some sellers had a shot limit so I guess I better check into that, but I'm so far pretty convinced that I'm going to keep it.

Just took a few more hundred shots last night...mostly low light 3200 ISO with the 100mm f2.8 and still so far so good.

This one straight from the camera unprocessed (handheld 1/60, f2.8 iso3200 - I would have preferred more dof but you get the idea):



So far a lot more keepers than I was getting or able to get with the M2N

--
My galleries:
http://www.focusingonnature.com
 
You're right, so far the performance has been very good and has exceeded the D2N in my opinion. Though I'm still debating whether I should return it (leaning towards keeping it) it was more of a concern that there were still focus issues that I haven't encountered yet due to my shooting style. The question really was what would happen if it was a hardware issues that couldn't be fixed by a firmware update and would Canon "do whatever it takes" to fix the problem.

--
My galleries:
http://www.focusingonnature.com
 
I love the reply that said to return it and get another one. That makes a lot of sense. You have a working MIII. You know their are faulty ones out there. So you would return your working MIII and take a chance on getting a faulty one? That would be the last thing I'd do. I have a working MIII too, but I admit that I'm going to probably wait a little longer to buy more of them to replace my remaining IIN bodies. Not because I don't believe Canon will fix any existing problems, but because it may take them a while to do it and I'd possibly have a problem in the mean time.

--
Regards, Mike - Lot's of Canon Stuff

Photographer in the Northeast? NorthEastFoto.com
 
megapixeldave said:
...
if we can assume that there are "good" ones and "bad" ones...why be
stuck with anything that doesnt feel satisfactory.

im not overly optimistic that the new one i get will be any better
but at least i have a chance.
...
Click to expand...
If there are good ones and bad ones I think the best choice is actually to use the warranty and let Canon repair and calibrate the camera you already have. If you return it for a different body you may just get a bad one again and another round of grief.
 
Mike Collins said:
I love the reply that said to return it and get another one. That
makes a lot of sense. You have a working MIII. You know their are
faulty ones out there. So you would return your working MIII and
take a chance on getting a faulty one? That would be the last thing
I'd do. I have a working MIII too, but I admit that I'm going to
probably wait a little longer to buy more of them to replace my
remaining IIN bodies. Not because I don't believe Canon will fix any
existing problems, but because it may take them a while to do it and
I'd possibly have a problem in the mean time.

--
Regards, Mike - Lot's of Canon Stuff

Photographer in the Northeast? NorthEastFoto.com
Click to expand...
Sorry, didn't read this before responding to the post you refer to - I agree with you.
 
ReneH said:
Thanks for the tip...I didn't realize that some sellers had a shot
limit so I guess I better check into that, but I'm so far pretty
convinced that I'm going to keep it.

Just took a few more hundred shots last night...mostly low light 3200
ISO with the 100mm f2.8 and still so far so good.

This one straight from the camera unprocessed (handheld 1/60, f2.8
iso3200 - I would have preferred more dof but you get the idea):

http://www.focusingonnature.com/photos/183676773-L-LB

So far a lot more keepers than I was getting or able to get with the M2N
Click to expand...
Rene, that is a very pretty shot! First off, congratulations on what appears to be a great camera. To be on the safe side you should get a friend to drive a car towards you at constant velocity; if the camera's AF works on that dynamic target then you have it made in the shade. Also, I don't know if you have shot rulers yet but FWIW here is what my setup looks like; 30D shots but you get the idea, my 10D and 1DmkII have gone through the same tests with identical results. Again, congratulations on the new tool.

Regards,

Joe Kurkjian, Pbase Supporter

http://www.pbase.com/jkurkjia/original



SEARCHING FOR A BETTER SELF PORTRAIT
 
Assuming there is a problem (have to assume RG understands the camera) I for one can't imagine that this is a copy by copy thing as he has now tested 6 cameras from different "batches" and is still bashing the AF.

On the other hand there are also many other reviews out there, showing the camera does AF superbly under all conditions (most of these reviews, however, get discounted on this forum).

There is also a tendency on this forum for the number of complaints and returns to increase with every one of RG's negative reviews. When the new firmware was first released there was clearly an uptick in the number of "my MKIII is working much better now" until of course RG did his followup saying the AF was still as broken as ever at which point the "AF is much better posts" abruptly ended and the "sad I have to return my MKIII" posts increased exponentially.

No doubt there is a human element thing going on to explain these quasi-scientific observations of mine, but make no doubt about it, these relationships are real and exist.

If you like the camera and it works, don't get fooled by thinking others need to validate your purchase and results.

If Canon issues a recall in a few months, you can send it in (as I had to do with my first 1DS) and in the meantime, enjoy the camera till then. If it is a firmware fix, then simple. If you are not having any problems, why care at this point? If the camera is working to your satisfaction, the more poignant question is why did you buy it in the first place???
 
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