Medium format image quality

[DrBormental]

I’d second he idea of getting a Mamiya 645. It’s like a mini Hasselblad, with affordable lenses.

The OP's price range is $500. I wonder if Mamiya 645 fits into that budget. The Pro/TL with a back+finder and 80mm lens will definitely cost more, not sure about Super/1000s/classic.

 

[Tomm111]

I’d second he idea of getting a Mamiya 645. It’s like a mini Hasselblad, with affordable lenses.

The OP's price range is $500. I wonder if Mamiya 645 fits into that budget. The Pro/TL with a back+finder and 80mm lens will definitely cost more, not sure about Super/1000s/classic.

The later ones had the best lenses, early ones the lenses were not so good. Mamiya got wise in the late 1980s and improved their lenses for all their cameras.

 

[davesurrey]

An alternative would be a Bronica ETRSi with the PE lenses. Amazing value IMHO and there are so many options to systemise the camera to your taste.

 

[Stujomo]

I own a Yashica D. While I do like it, am I curious to see if there is other medium format cameras that can produce sharper images. I'm aware of the likes of the Mamiya 7 but is there anything worth considering under the €500 mark?

I worked as a darkroom assistant in an art college, we handed out Yashica Ds to all the 1st year photo students. When the Yashica 124G came out we switched to them, a much better camera and lens. Minolta Autocord also comes to mind.

Bronicas have great lenses but are finicky and parts can be a problem ?buy a parts camera too?

Had an RB67 and traded it for an 8x10, then traded that for a Horseman 980, which is a nice 2 1/4x 3 1/4 (6x9) press type camera. It has a cam rangfinder system, its lenses are very inexpensive, the "super" set is very good, really liked the Super Horseman f7 65mm nice wide and could cover 4x5. Has changeable backs too.

Yashica D was produced with 2 different lenses if I remember one was the Yashikor 3 element and the later better lens was the Yashinon 4 element lens.

I had the a Yashica D with the Yashikor and loved it. I made prints from it around 6x6 to 8x8 inches and also 3 1/2 x 5 inch prints. The tonality from the medium format film and small print sizes was beautiful.

 

[arthur01]

I own a Yashica D. While I do like it, am I curious to see if there is other medium format cameras that can produce sharper images. I'm aware of the likes of the Mamiya 7 but is there anything worth considering under the €500 mark?

I recently sold my pentax 645 film system which I had for many years.A great system with great sharp lenses.

 

[Neil-O]

I own a Yashica D. While I do like it, am I curious to see if there is other medium format cameras that can produce sharper images. I'm aware of the likes of the Mamiya 7 but is there anything worth considering under the €500 mark?

I recently sold my pentax 645 film system which I had for many years.A great system with great sharp lenses.

That does beg the question.... why?

 

[Barry Duggan Photography]

I've decided to hold onto my Yashica. Thanks everyone.

 

[arthur01]

I own a Yashica D. While I do like it, am I curious to see if there is other medium format cameras that can produce sharper images. I'm aware of the likes of the Mamiya 7 but is there anything worth considering under the €500 mark?

I recently sold my pentax 645 film system which I had for many years.A great system with great sharp lenses.

That does beg the question.... why?

I think I got interrupted in sending my post.I meant to also add that these lenses and system are well worth it. I sold them because I was trying to de clutter and I knew I could get a good price. I did. I regret not having the system but I hadn't really used it for years.I had had my 645 outfit since about 1990.

 

[Neil-O]

I own a Yashica D. While I do like it, am I curious to see if there is other medium format cameras that can produce sharper images. I'm aware of the likes of the Mamiya 7 but is there anything worth considering under the €500 mark?

I recently sold my pentax 645 film system which I had for many years.A great system with great sharp lenses.

That does beg the question.... why?

I think I got interrupted in sending my post.I meant to also add that these lenses and system are well worth it. I sold them because I was trying to de clutter and I knew I could get a good price. I did. I regret not having the system but I hadn't really used it for years.I had had my 645 outfit since about 1990.

I understand - there must be some folk bitterly regretting selling MF gear a few years back when prices were on the floor, the only issue now is whether you wait until the value of used gear rises even higher - which I believe it will.

 

[cptrios]

I own a Yashica D. While I do like it, am I curious to see if there is other medium format cameras that can produce sharper images. I'm aware of the likes of the Mamiya 7 but is there anything worth considering under the €500 mark?

I worked as a darkroom assistant in an art college, we handed out Yashica Ds to all the 1st year photo students. When the Yashica 124G came out we switched to them, a much better camera and lens. Minolta Autocord also comes to mind.

Bronicas have great lenses but are finicky and parts can be a problem ?buy a parts camera too?

Had an RB67 and traded it for an 8x10, then traded that for a Horseman 980, which is a nice 2 1/4x 3 1/4 (6x9) press type camera. It has a cam rangfinder system, its lenses are very inexpensive, the "super" set is very good, really liked the Super Horseman f7 65mm nice wide and could cover 4x5. Has changeable backs too.

Yashica D was produced with 2 different lenses if I remember one was the Yashikor 3 element and the later better lens was the Yashinon 4 element lens.

I had the a Yashica D with the Yashikor and loved it. I made prints from it around 6x6 to 8x8 inches and also 3 1/2 x 5 inch prints. The tonality from the medium format film and small print sizes was beautiful.

I'd be interested to see which one of these OP has (Yashikor vs. Yashinon). From what I've seen, even the Yashikor should still be really solid.

 

[Barry Duggan Photography]

I have the superior Yashinon.

 

[cptrios]

I have the superior Yashinon.

Hmm. Do you have any scans that show the lack of sharpness you're talking about? I just bought an Autocord that I'm currently getting CLA's, but a Yashica is another option if I turn out not to like this one. So I'd be interested to see if yours is good enough!

By the way, is the issue across the frame or are you just not happy with corners? I did notice softish corners while flipping through Flickr.

 

[arthur01]

I own a Yashica D. While I do like it, am I curious to see if there is other medium format cameras that can produce sharper images. I'm aware of the likes of the Mamiya 7 but is there anything worth considering under the €500 mark?

I recently sold my pentax 645 film system which I had for many years.A great system with great sharp lenses.

That does beg the question.... why?

I think I got interrupted in sending my post.I meant to also add that these lenses and system are well worth it. I sold them because I was trying to de clutter and I knew I could get a good price. I did. I regret not having the system but I hadn't really used it for years.I had had my 645 outfit since about 1990.

I understand - there must be some folk bitterly regretting selling MF gear a few years back when prices were on the floor, the only issue now is whether you wait until the value of used gear rises even higher - which I believe it will.

Yes just about anything is available at a price and as soon as someone talks up film gear it increases the used value.I have more than enough gear to not have to buy another camera. But we get tempted. The latest iphone 12 means that a lot of people like me will simply opt to stay with what they have got and get an iphone for the latest goodies in computational imaging.

 

[citizenlouie]

I own a Yashica D. While I do like it, am I curious to see if there is other medium format cameras that can produce sharper images. I'm aware of the likes of the Mamiya 7 but is there anything worth considering under the €500 mark?

I am new to MF. My direction is completely the opposite though.... I picked up a Konishiroku Pearl IV (6x4.5 folder, very compact, about the size of a 1950's 35mm camera like Kodak Retina, but it takes 120 film) and it's back from repair. It's fun, and it's sharp but no sharper than 35mm. Love the smoother tonality though of the larger format. When I take that camera out for a photo shoot, it baffles pedestrians.

The other acquisition is an endowment from the local photo lab owner. A Baby Graflex Speed Graphics (2x3 sheet film bellow). It's a miniature sized large format camera using a film that's basically 6x9 medium format, but it's still quite big. Such an interesting camera though. You wind the spring to control the shutter speed. Such large camera needs a tripod, so when I am setting up that camera, I bet I look rather anachronistic to your typical smart phone photographers.

The latest acquisition is Agfa Clack (6x9 medium format toy camera). I couldn't stop smiling when I received it. The look is funny, the name is funny. It came with a soft plasticky rubbery (it doesn't even pretend to be a leatherette) camera case with a neck strap that can be converted so you can carry it like a hand bag. It has the smallest OVF I've ever used. It only has one shutter speed.... 1/30" OMG! It's even more limiting than Holga, but it does have a better built quality..., and the shutter sounds more professional (with the emphasis on the word "more"). LOL I bought Ilford PanF Plus, so I am going to shoot it using Sunny 16. It's going to be my annual physical exam (without going to the hospital), and see how steady my hands are. LOL. And the funniest thing is, Clack is a 6x9 MF camera, the largest medium format (if you don't count 6x12 panorama). LOL

 

[SterlingBjorndahl]

A Baby Graflex Speed Graphics (2x3 sheet film bellow).

Do you have sheet film holders? If so, the film from an Instax Mini can be loaded into them. For development they have to be re-loaded back into the Instax film holder and inserted into the camera and "exposed" again (all in complete darkness of course) to force the film through the rollers to begin development. The ISO is rated at 800.

It's also fun to play with the Baby Graflex as it was originally intended, as a hand-held press camera taking snapshots. Focus and exposure can be uneven then, but a lot of good newspaper photos were shot that way back in the day. It disciplines one to think of zone focusing and possibly adding a flash. B&W film is fairly tolerant of exposure error. In real life, the photos were often cropped quite a bit because changing camera-to-subject distance in a hurry meant recalculating the F-stop when using flashbulbs so it was easier to stand back a bit, set your focus zone and aperture, put in a fresh flashbulb, and wait for the subject to come to you.

Best wishes,
Sterling
--
Lens Grit

 

[citizenlouie]

A Baby Graflex Speed Graphics (2x3 sheet film bellow).

Do you have sheet film holders? If so, the film from an Instax Mini can be loaded into them. For development they have to be re-loaded back into the Instax film holder and inserted into the camera and "exposed" again (all in complete darkness of course) to force the film through the rollers to begin development. The ISO is rated at 800.

It's also fun to play with the Baby Graflex as it was originally intended, as a hand-held press camera taking snapshots. Focus and exposure can be uneven then, but a lot of good newspaper photos were shot that way back in the day. It disciplines one to think of zone focusing and possibly adding a flash. B&W film is fairly tolerant of exposure error. In real life, the photos were often cropped quite a bit because changing camera-to-subject distance in a hurry meant recalculating the F-stop when using flashbulbs so it was easier to stand back a bit, set your focus zone and aperture, put in a fresh flashbulb, and wait for the subject to come to you.

Best wishes,
Sterling
--
Lens Grit

I do have a sheet film holder (and previous owner has a box of Plus X or Double X I don't remember which). I'll try the Instax trick, you mentioned. Do I have to load it using a changing bag? (wonder how, to take the film out of the Instax box). Nice to know they're ISO 800 film (I do have some Instax films around because my mom won't use the camera I bought her...).

I handheld Baby Graflex a few times, like you said, as a P&S. People did find me strange. LOL. Honestly, one thing I've learned from being a photographer for more than a decade is, you have to ignore everyone to get the photo taken.

I have a few cameras that use zone focusing. Clack being one of such, and I have some Olympus rangefinders. I shot Holga (135BC) the other day and the whole roll only one shot is out of focus (because I forgot it's a zone focus camera). 35mm Holga's aperture is said to be around f/13, and the lens isn't super sharp, so even it's not completely spot on, you wouldn't able to tell.

My Baby Graflex has Zeiss Jena 11.5cm lens, though. It's a little difficult to use but it can be fun. But it being a 115mm optical focal length means I have to stand back quite a bit, despite it's the equivalent of a 49mm (in field of view) in 135 format. It's an interesting camera. Not sure how to use it with flash (it has the two prongs flash synch connector. Don't even know where to find such flash bulb).

 

[SterlingBjorndahl]

I do have a sheet film holder (and previous owner has a box of Plus X or Double X I don't remember which). I'll try the Instax trick, you mentioned. Do I have to load it using a changing bag? (wonder how, to take the film out of the Instax box).

I learned by watching a couple of YouTube videos on the subject, and some trial-and-error. Yes, a perfectly dark room or changing bag is required to unload the films from the Instax holder and load into the sheet film holders, and then after exposure to put them back into an Instax holder and put that into an Instax camera. You "develop" them by pressing the shutter on the Instax, which can be done in the light, but you have to take care not to double-expose them and have to watch out for the flash (which seems to be always-on). It's ungainly, but fun to play with.

There's a rhythm to shooting press cameras with sheet film holders:

• focus
• set exposure
• **** shutter
• slap the holder in place
• withdraw the dark slide
• wait for the moment (if, e.g. photojournalism rather than landscape)
• shoot
• put the dark slide back in (flipped from before as a mnemonic that this sheet has been exposed, but there's no consensus as to whether the dark side facing out means it's unexposed and the silver side exposed, or vice versa. Depends on who your teacher was, ususally)
• slide out the entire holder, flip it around so the unexposed sheet is facing the lens, and slap it back into place if you're ready to take another
• If you have big pockets make sure the unexposed holders are in one and the exposed ones in another so you don't accidentally double-expose
• don't make mistakes (Ha! )

Not sure how to use it with flash (it has the two prongs flash synch connector. Don't even know where to find such flash bulb).

There's a lot of information on various web sites, including graflex.org, but it depends on how far you want to go down this particular rabbit hole. Some of the "newer" shutters (relatively speaking) have the ability to switch between flashbulb and electronic strobe mode, but there's a lot of variation out there that can result in a lot of head scratching.

Best wishes,
Sterling
--
Lens Grit

 

[Tomm111]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is when loading film in holders the notches on the film should go either to the lower left, or upper right in the holder. Another one of those "who taught you" conventions, this is to be sure the emulsion is facing out. My father had a 4x5 Speed Graphic he gave to me when he thought I was getting serious about photography. The cameras are big but they are light weight and not hard at all to use. There are 2 pin to pc connectors available, see if your shutter has a M and X switch. If the shutter has a piston flash adapter, I am not sure it can be used for a strobe.

 

[citizenlouie]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is when loading film in holders the notches on the film should go either to the lower left, or upper right in the holder. Another one of those "who taught you" conventions, this is to be sure the emulsion is facing out. My father had a 4x5 Speed Graphic he gave to me when he thought I was getting serious about photography. The cameras are big but they are light weight and not hard at all to use. There are 2 pin to pc connectors available, see if your shutter has a M and X switch. If the shutter has a piston flash adapter, I am not sure it can be used for a strobe.

I hope I didn't put the sheet film in the wrong side. I think my notches were on the lower right when I shot my two sheets. :-/ So the glossy purple side facing out? Or the matte grey side facing out? I put it in the way previous owner put it (I found two sheets of film already loaded and without knowing that, oops, those two film were exposed to the light when I open the dark slides).

I am unlikely to bother with flash, as I am TERRIBLE even with modern flashes. I do use flash, but I have no idea what I am doing sometimes. LOL

 

[citizenlouie]

• don't make mistakes (Ha! )

That's the most difficult part. I used a roll film holder and bound it with rubber bands to the camera's back, so I could use 120 films. Even with easier to use 120 film back..., I have a few shots that are double exposed but some frames completely blank. I must have put the dark slide in the wrong timing.... Or used the wrong shutter (Baby Graflex Speed Graphic has two shutters, you could use either focal plane shutter or the shutter on the lens).

Not sure how to use it with flash (it has the two prongs flash synch connector. Don't even know where to find such flash bulb).

There's a lot of information on various web sites, including graflex.org, but it depends on how far you want to go down this particular rabbit hole. Some of the "newer" shutters (relatively speaking) have the ability to switch between flashbulb and electronic strobe mode, but there's a lot of variation out there that can result in a lot of head scratching.

I'll use it once a while only. It's a little difficult to use. I think I'll use it on some good landscape I've had good experience with, and shoot them large format! It can be super fun but not for hiking. I find winding the shutter springs very soothing. It's like winding one of those old tin toys. There is just something about winding mechanical equipments. LOL

Best wishes,
Sterling
--
Lens Grit