Newbee to the Medium Format Universe

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That is such a typical spray and pray response !
Well, I would call it spray and cherry pick. But in essence yes.
I am old enough to remember when a 5 frame motor drive was a rarity and many of us spent most of our time shooting on roll film. If you need to capture twice the frame rate of an MGM blockbuster just to get a usable shot then I feel this is not the camera for you ..... not because it cant do the job, but because it needs someone that can work with it .

I remember shooting air to air over Holland in January with the Dutch Police. We flew from the UK and had to wait 2 days for clear air. The day we shot was rather chilly and there were two of us shooting stills in the bubble chopper. I produced a Mamiya RB67 with suitable lens and the other younger guy the latest Nikon. On arrival at the shooting spot we positioned relevant to the fixed wing we were shooting and I offered the Nikon guy first crack . He smiled at my Mamiya and its single frame battery-less bulk and formed up at the open door. He fired a couple of bursts and then stopped. I waited for him to sit down and took position . The sound of my film cocking lever and wind on marking each shot I took till the roll of 10 was done. As I reloaded I said to him he should get a few more and he declined and sat nursing his Nikon. Seems the January air at several hundred feet up had caused his camera battery to chill to the point of stopping and he had to wait for it to warm. I moved back to the door and having quickly reloaded, carried on shooting.

I somehow managed to fill car, plane, and boat magazines with images of fast moving subjects without the aid of a motor drive, and strangely managed to cover cricket too.

It seems there is an idea today that unless you have 30fps with pre capture, you cant do professional work , and I think it is a terrible inditement of the photographers ability.

The jpeg at the top is shot with manual shutter , and is from a burst of 3 frames shot while playing with the GF 250mm f4 shot at 1/350 s f5.6 . The car was doing around the speed limit for the road which is 60 MPH, a bit faster than most animals. I am sure firing two or three frames every now and then on manual shutter wont kill the camera before it is time to update it . Technology tends to retire bodies way before they die.
What I argue about is, that shooting living subjects in an unscripted context (that includes animals, but also humans, especially small ones), you often can't plan a shot like on a race track. On the latter you know, that these cars will come around that curve at about that speed and then go this way. Than you can select your viewing point, choose you setting and just click the shutter and the right moment. And next round, you have another opportunity.

Nature doesn't work that way. If you found wild animals (difficult enough), you don't know, what they do next, you don't know when and so on. And in case of mammals your location is strongly depend on the direction of wind and your own camouflage. That's simply a different kind of stuff. Great scenes come and go and you're task is to grab it unnoticed. (Also the variations of human expressions in/on(?) a face within two seconds can be really astonishing. If you have two persons talking / arguing with each other, it's not so easy to capture a pleasing image of those with just 5 fps. Having 15 fps simply increases the cherries you find on your card.)

Regarding mechanical shutter for wild life: I did that kind of stuff a decade ago and choose an Olympus E-1 for it. It is really rugged and rather silent. Back then with an adapter medium format lens. Often laying in the grass or in bushes, what wasn't a help regarding image quality.

eca996ed94ee4502bc5520a95701ec63.jpg

And even that rather quiet shutter sound was often too loud, so you get detected and gone was the opportunity. And foxes are really not the shyest of wild deer. So from that perspective I would argue that really long telephoto lenses, silent shutter and high fps increase your hit rate measured in good images per week.

A young fox noticing the photographer. Shortly after this, he and his family was on the run.
A young fox noticing the photographer. Shortly after this, he and his family was on the run.
 
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View attachment 12f7ebebd4f9453fab993ba4004f20aa.jpg

That is such a typical spray and pray response !
Well, I would call it spray and cherry pick. But in essence yes.
I am old enough to remember when a 5 frame motor drive was a rarity and many of us spent most of our time shooting on roll film. If you need to capture twice the frame rate of an MGM blockbuster just to get a usable shot then I feel this is not the camera for you ..... not because it cant do the job, but because it needs someone that can work with it .

I remember shooting air to air over Holland in January with the Dutch Police. We flew from the UK and had to wait 2 days for clear air. The day we shot was rather chilly and there were two of us shooting stills in the bubble chopper. I produced a Mamiya RB67 with suitable lens and the other younger guy the latest Nikon. On arrival at the shooting spot we positioned relevant to the fixed wing we were shooting and I offered the Nikon guy first crack . He smiled at my Mamiya and its single frame battery-less bulk and formed up at the open door. He fired a couple of bursts and then stopped. I waited for him to sit down and took position . The sound of my film cocking lever and wind on marking each shot I took till the roll of 10 was done. As I reloaded I said to him he should get a few more and he declined and sat nursing his Nikon. Seems the January air at several hundred feet up had caused his camera battery to chill to the point of stopping and he had to wait for it to warm. I moved back to the door and having quickly reloaded, carried on shooting.

I somehow managed to fill car, plane, and boat magazines with images of fast moving subjects without the aid of a motor drive, and strangely managed to cover cricket too.

It seems there is an idea today that unless you have 30fps with pre capture, you cant do professional work , and I think it is a terrible inditement of the photographers ability.

The jpeg at the top is shot with manual shutter , and is from a burst of 3 frames shot while playing with the GF 250mm f4 shot at 1/350 s f5.6 . The car was doing around the speed limit for the road which is 60 MPH, a bit faster than most animals. I am sure firing two or three frames every now and then on manual shutter wont kill the camera before it is time to update it . Technology tends to retire bodies way before they die.
What I argue about is, that shooting living subjects in an unscripted context (that includes animals, but also humans, especially small ones), you often can't plan a shot like on a race track. On the latter you know, that these cars will come around that curve at about that speed and then go this way. Than you can select your viewing point, choose you setting and just click the shutter and the right moment. And next round, you have another opportunity.

Nature doesn't work that way. If you found wild animals (difficult enough), you don't know, what they do next, you don't know when and so on. And in case of mammals your location is strongly depend on the direction of wind and your own camouflage. That's simply a different kind of stuff. Great scenes come and go and you're task is to grab it unnoticed. (Also the variations of human expressions in/on(?) a face within two seconds can be really astonishing. If you have two persons talking / arguing with each other, it's not so easy to capture a pleasing image of those with just 5 fps. Having 15 fps simply increases the cherries you find on your card.)

Regarding mechanical shutter for wild life: I did that kind of stuff a decade ago and choose an Olympus E-1 for it. It is really rugged and rather silent. Back then with an adapter medium format lens. Often laying in the grass or in bushes, what wasn't a help regarding image quality.

eca996ed94ee4502bc5520a95701ec63.jpg

And even that rather quiet shutter sound was often too loud, so you get detected and gone was the opportunity. And foxes are really not the shyest of wild deer. So from that perspective I would argue that really long telephoto lenses, silent shutter and high fps increase your hit rate measured in good images per week.

A young fox noticing the photographer. Shortly after this, he and his family was on the run.
A young fox noticing the photographer. Shortly after this, he and his family was on the run.
A friend is into bird photography and after a day of shooting, he can come back with 1000-2000 photos. And then he does this a few days a week. That’s about the number of images I get after a month trip through Indonesia or any other country.

Ofcourse incomparable, so it’s good to have a choice. To each their own, I guess. I’m a “slow shooter” by definition. Never even shot more than 1 fps.
 
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Hi,

Heh. I recall only too clearly when digital ILCs did not have any frames per second. They were seconds per frame. No buffers. Such as the Nikon E2 and Kodak DCS 460. And those cameras were $10k and $30k respectively.

The only camera I have had which required a new shutter was the Nikon FA film camera. None of my others, film or digital, ever needed one. But it was the use of the motor drive which caused the FA to need a new shutter. Twice, actually. That shutter was fragile. Once I figured that out, I quit using the MD in continuous mode.

Stan
 
2000 photos in a day ! That's 200 GB of data to process and store a day with a GFX !

To me that is the reason to go to MFT, just the cost of cloud storage after a few months of that would break you .... never mind the ones converted to Tiff at 500mb each .

As for the comment about spontaneous movement in animals , this pic is with my Bengal boy playing , spontaneous is his middle name , and this was sho9t playing with a GF 110 f2 very close up at f2. ... again no more than 3 to 4 frames fired.



 At f2 with the GF110  this close DOF is about the width of a playing card edge on !
At f2 with the GF110 this close DOF is about the width of a playing card edge on !



Years back a close friend that I used to shoot with was a tracker, and a rather good one ! He could predict where and how they would move, sometimes photography is about learning your subject . Knowing like my friend where and what they will do is the power behind success , not just shooting a 1000 frames hoping for luck to carry you over the line.
 
Rather like the old 7.62 SLR with 20 rounds in the magazine..... keep your finger on the button for a view of the sky and an empty magazine in seconds. Fast reload is to allow another carefully aimed shot any time you fancy !
 
A friend is into bird photography and after a day of shooting, he can come back with 1000-2000 photos. And then he does this a few days a week. That’s about the number of images I get after a month trip through Indonesia or any other country.
He doesn't keep or show you all this image, does he?

I don't know all modern cameras, but in case of OM-System you can scroll through the images in playback at about 5 to 10 fps. If you consider one image as possible keep-it, simply stop scrolling and press the button for write protection. This workflow is of course the same, if zoomed in for focus / motion blur inspection. If you're cycled through all your images, select delete all images in the menu and you're done. To select maybe 20 keepers out of 2000 takes about 5-10 minutes in camera. The second round of screening is then done on a proper computer and than I typical end up with 2...5 images that went to the storage and get send out.
 
As for the comment about spontaneous movement in animals , this pic is with my Bengal boy playing , spontaneous is his middle name , and this was sho9t playing with a GF 110 f2 very close up at f2. ... again no more than 3 to 4 frames fired.
Nice cat. Seems quite young?
The time and strength effort of getting close to your personal cat is not comparable to get close to wild deer at daylight. First you have to notice them, before they notice you. And in case I luckily got this first step right, I actually never get close enough to them, as I always broke some branches or was to visible and got spotted. It would be painful, if you managed all that stuff and then get juts 4 frames. All in all its a pretty frustrating hobby, that's why I quit that part of photography. Not my cup of tea. :-D

I'm wondering how some people get really beautiful pictures of lynxes. I often doesn't manage to spot them in outdoor enclosures, if they are just chilling.
 
2000 photos in a day !
Yes, and then he has to select all those images. Many are thrown away.
That's 200 GB of data to process and store a day with a GFX !

To me that is the reason to go to MFT, just the cost of cloud storage after a few months of that would break you .... never mind the ones converted to Tiff at 500mb each .

As for the comment about spontaneous movement in animals , this pic is with my Bengal boy playing , spontaneous is his middle name , and this was sho9t playing with a GF 110 f2 very close up at f2. ... again no more than 3 to 4 frames fired.

At f2 with the GF110 this close DOF is about the width of a playing card edge on !
At f2 with the GF110 this close DOF is about the width of a playing card edge on !

Years back a close friend that I used to shoot with was a tracker, and a rather good one ! He could predict where and how they would move, sometimes photography is about learning your subject . Knowing like my friend where and what they will do is the power behind success , not just shooting a 1000 frames hoping for luck to carry you over the line.
 
A friend is into bird photography and after a day of shooting, he can come back with 1000-2000 photos. And then he does this a few days a week. That’s about the number of images I get after a month trip through Indonesia or any other country.
He doesn't keep or show you all this image, does he?
No he doesn’t. Selecting at home on computer. Still takes time ofcourse.
I don't know all modern cameras, but in case of OM-System you can scroll through the images in playback at about 5 to 10 fps. If you consider one image as possible keep-it, simply stop scrolling and press the button for write protection. This workflow is of course the same, if zoomed in for focus / motion blur inspection. If you're cycled through all your images, select delete all images in the menu and you're done. To select maybe 20 keepers out of 2000 takes about 5-10 minutes in camera. The second round of screening is then done on a proper computer and than I typical end up with 2...5 images that went to the storage and get send out.
 
Hi,

Heh. I recall only too clearly when digital ILCs did not have any frames per second. They were seconds per frame. No buffers. Such as the Nikon E2 and Kodak DCS 460. And those cameras were $10k and $30k respectively.
One reason my Sigma SD9 Foveon became my favourite dslr compared to my Canon 1DS, Nikon D2H, Oly E1, Fuji S2 dslrs I had is because my SD9 was slooooow. Only one chance usually to nail the exposure nail the shot. Waiting seconds between shots for my SD9 to be ready for next shot out in the field.

Sense of satisfaction I derived due to this esp with adapted manual lenses to have nailed the shot with just 1 shot.

Slow is smooth. Smooth is fast.
The only camera I have had which required a new shutter was the Nikon FA film camera. None of my others, film or digital, ever needed one. But it was the use of the motor drive which caused the FA to need a new shutter. Twice, actually. That shutter was fragile. Once I figured that out, I quit using the MD in continuous mode.

Stan
--
Photography after all is interplay of light alongside perspective.
 
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