It should be called AS mode - meaning "aperture and shutter priority" mode.
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Manual mode with auto/iauto iso mode and exposure comp?
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Adielle
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It's only "AS Mode" if your ISO setting is "Auto", but not when you set the ISO to a specific value... When you do, it suddenly becomes "M" 
You want them to make an AS Mode, where the only difference is that "Auto" is not available as one of the ISO setting options?
You want them to make an AS Mode, where the only difference is that "Auto" is not available as one of the ISO setting options?
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Dave Andrade
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I fully understand that. But I am guessing the OP doesn't?
Yes, if something is auto, its no longer manual, but the OP asked for E/C in manual mode.
So I was just being clear that if they wanted to adjust the exposure, all they had to do was....er.....adjust the exposure.
Exposure compensation is - for example - using aperture priority mode to determine what shutter speed to use by either adjusting the E/C up or down, and making the shutter speed either slower or faster to reflect that.
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Gregm61
Forum Pro
Yeah, the original E-M1 does. Still have it and have utilized it that way often. It adjusts the ISO. You have to enable it in all exposure modes as it is turned off in manual mode by default, but there is a menu item where you can enable it and compensation is available in manual mode with auto ISO set.
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"There's shadows in life, baby.." Jack Horner- Boogie Nights
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Phocal
Senior Member
No the original EM1 does not allow EC in manual mode with auto ISO. It will allow auto ISO in manual mode but no EC. The only two Olympus cameras to allow this are the Pen F and EM1mk2.
Phocal
Senior Member
This reply’s for this subject always make me laugh.................
First, you have people who insist that once you make anything auto it is no longer manual mode, this is true. But until they make another mode position on the dial those of us wanting this feature we can only call it manual mode since that is position on the dial that we have to set the camera to. That is why I call it M mode and not Manual mode, to avoid these type of stupid arguments.
Seceond, you have the people who just can’t understand why anyone would want this or how it could be useful. I shoot a lot in the swamps of east Texas, which means I am typically under a pretty heavy canopy of trees with the random openings for the sun to shine through. If I am watching say a Great Egret hunt as it moves around the swamp and going from a sunny spot to a not so sunny spot, which changes the exposure a lot, I am having to constinently make adjustments (which means I am concentrating on the camera and not the action or the dangers that lurk everywhere in swamp) Now it is a white bird and white birds I tend to under expose by 3/4 to a full stop when using matrix metering. I don’t use spot metering because I first of all don’t use the center point, which is where most cameras take the spot reading from (yes, some will use the chosen the focus point but neither of mine will). I always shoot with composition in mind and move the focus point around to accomplish that. Even if my camera did use spot at the chosen focus point it would do me little good since the spot would be over the head of the bird and not the body, so the exposure would be based on not just the white of the head (if the entire head was white) but also the background which would put us back into the same situation of needing EC. I know that a bird striking for a meal needs at a minimum 1/800 to freeze the action, this doesn’t always freeze the action so I prefer 1/1000 but will use 1/800 if it forces my ISO to high. I also have my camera set to not use anything beyond ISO 1600 when shooting widlife because I feel the images don’t capture enough detail beyond that point. I also look at ISO as the quality setting and the lowest quality setting I am willing to use is ISO 1600. So I switch to M mode and set a shutter speed of 1/000 and auto ISO (for my quality setting). I pick my aperture based on how much DoF I want and dial in -1 stop EV because it’s a white bird (also check the blinkies in the view finder to ensure I am not blowing the highlights). Now all i have to do is follow the bird around and no longer have to mess with setting the controls of the camera and I have given away zero control to the camera. My shutter speed is set by me to control freezing or allowing some motion blur. My aperture is set by me to provide the DoF I want for the image. I have set the EC so that no high lights are blown, I hate blown highlights. The only variable the camera can change is ISO but I have already told the camera to not go above a certain ISO because after that I find the quality not up to my standards and I know that in this mode the camera will pick the lowest possible ISO possible (which is exactly what I would do if setting the ISO manually). Now I can use my attention to ensure the photo is properly composed, follow the action as well as keeping my other eye (the one not glued to the viewfinder) on the lookout for gators or snakes or other dangers in the swamp.
First, you have people who insist that once you make anything auto it is no longer manual mode, this is true. But until they make another mode position on the dial those of us wanting this feature we can only call it manual mode since that is position on the dial that we have to set the camera to. That is why I call it M mode and not Manual mode, to avoid these type of stupid arguments.
Seceond, you have the people who just can’t understand why anyone would want this or how it could be useful. I shoot a lot in the swamps of east Texas, which means I am typically under a pretty heavy canopy of trees with the random openings for the sun to shine through. If I am watching say a Great Egret hunt as it moves around the swamp and going from a sunny spot to a not so sunny spot, which changes the exposure a lot, I am having to constinently make adjustments (which means I am concentrating on the camera and not the action or the dangers that lurk everywhere in swamp) Now it is a white bird and white birds I tend to under expose by 3/4 to a full stop when using matrix metering. I don’t use spot metering because I first of all don’t use the center point, which is where most cameras take the spot reading from (yes, some will use the chosen the focus point but neither of mine will). I always shoot with composition in mind and move the focus point around to accomplish that. Even if my camera did use spot at the chosen focus point it would do me little good since the spot would be over the head of the bird and not the body, so the exposure would be based on not just the white of the head (if the entire head was white) but also the background which would put us back into the same situation of needing EC. I know that a bird striking for a meal needs at a minimum 1/800 to freeze the action, this doesn’t always freeze the action so I prefer 1/1000 but will use 1/800 if it forces my ISO to high. I also have my camera set to not use anything beyond ISO 1600 when shooting widlife because I feel the images don’t capture enough detail beyond that point. I also look at ISO as the quality setting and the lowest quality setting I am willing to use is ISO 1600. So I switch to M mode and set a shutter speed of 1/000 and auto ISO (for my quality setting). I pick my aperture based on how much DoF I want and dial in -1 stop EV because it’s a white bird (also check the blinkies in the view finder to ensure I am not blowing the highlights). Now all i have to do is follow the bird around and no longer have to mess with setting the controls of the camera and I have given away zero control to the camera. My shutter speed is set by me to control freezing or allowing some motion blur. My aperture is set by me to provide the DoF I want for the image. I have set the EC so that no high lights are blown, I hate blown highlights. The only variable the camera can change is ISO but I have already told the camera to not go above a certain ISO because after that I find the quality not up to my standards and I know that in this mode the camera will pick the lowest possible ISO possible (which is exactly what I would do if setting the ISO manually). Now I can use my attention to ensure the photo is properly composed, follow the action as well as keeping my other eye (the one not glued to the viewfinder) on the lookout for gators or snakes or other dangers in the swamp.
john isaacs
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And EC is used to adjust ISO when in Auto ISO mode.Ah... how strange... I didn't realize EC wasn't even working. Well, some people may find it to be usually a good thing in Manual mode
bobn2
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It is in manual exposure mode. The photographer has complete control over exposure, which is what 'manual' means.
But that's ISO, not exposure.
bobn2
Forum Pro
It is manual exposure
Which is then a misnomer. It's actually acting as 'ISO compensation'.
Manual with auto ISO is a really sensible mode, since it means that the photographer has full control over exposure, which matters, and leaves ISO, which doesn't matter so much, to the camera. Unfortunately, many camera designers seem not to have grasped the utility, and hobble the mode. For instance, as you suggest, compensation is a good thing to have. One example, in a scene with very bright highlights, you might want to lower the ISO to avoid clipping them.
Dave Andrade
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As someone else pointed out, this is all semantics at this point.
M = Manual mode. It's the 'manual' that people are getting hung up on.
I can agree with the auto ISO. That's a simple adjustment in the menu. And as someone else explained, there is a benefit to exposure compensation (of course) but the point of manual mode is that if your scene is too bright, increase the shutter speed and....voila, your scene is darker.
The "issue" with auto modes is that it attempts to get everything exposed correctly, dependent on the metering mode. Because of this, if someone WANTS it darker....that's where exposure compensation comes in.
Allan Brown
Senior Member
You are slipping.
I was wondering how long it would take you to chirp in.
anyway carry on.
Allan
bobn2
Forum Pro
Semantics - the study of meaning. The problem here is that there are many who don't know what is 'exposure', what are the effects of different exposures, and how one might manage exposure once one gets past the most basic levels.
Yes, and M allows you to adjust exposure manually.
Only in the most basic ideas of how and why you should choose an exposure.
The issue with auto modes is that they are based on managing exposure on the idea that you use exposure to make your picture lighter or darker. The advantage with M and auto ISO is that you can manage exposure towards more sensible goals and then let auto ISO take care of how light or dark the picture is (if you're choosing to use ex-camera JPEGs).
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Ride easy, William.
Bob
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bobn2
Forum Pro
That's not a very sensible response.
IanColley
Leading Member
I'm late to this party but I'll add my bit to maybe help a few with the problem of exposure compensation in Manual mode with Auto ISO.
Gregm61 is correct in saying it is available, as a menu dive, unfortunately for older models it's not a direct button or dial accessible function as Phocal and many others, including me, wish for. It is however still very usable in the circumstances I often find myself shooting in and I make do with what's on offer with the bodies I use. (not EM1 mkII)
I have just copied and pasted an explanation I have supplied in previous posts to explain.
"You are able to exposure compensate in manual mode using auto ISO on most Oly cameras since the EPL1, it's just not instantly adjustable by dial or arrow pad, a menu dive is required. In the "gears" menu then "utility" you will find "exposure shift". This function allows you to override the cameras chosen exposure setting in all three metering modes in 1/6 EV increments. With practice you can access and change the setting within 4 or 5 seconds. I think most of the cameras will remember the last menu you went to so hitting the menu button takes you straight back to the exposure shift function (I don't use the menus for anything else generally because all other settings I may want to change are accessed by direct button).
I use this function a lot with my E5 and EM1 bodies when shooting motorsport, particularly the race boat photography I do. I usually set the E5 to +2/6 to + 4/6 on sunny days to compensate for the cameras desire to under expose the photo because of the amount of white spray generated by the boats. The EM1 is a little better and usually only requires +1/6 to +2/6 although on some of the really bright sunny days we have here in Australia I might have to add a touch more. This would be perfect for shooting in the snow or largely white ice rinks where the camera wants to underexpose."
Now, not ideal I know, as it's not instantly adjustable but for what I'm shooting I don't need to make continual adjustments for every photo. I'm looking for a global change to suit a series of photographs (bursts) in similar conditions. Then I can change it in a couple of seconds when circumstances and conditions change.
Regards Ian Colley
Gregm61 is correct in saying it is available, as a menu dive, unfortunately for older models it's not a direct button or dial accessible function as Phocal and many others, including me, wish for. It is however still very usable in the circumstances I often find myself shooting in and I make do with what's on offer with the bodies I use. (not EM1 mkII)
I have just copied and pasted an explanation I have supplied in previous posts to explain.
"You are able to exposure compensate in manual mode using auto ISO on most Oly cameras since the EPL1, it's just not instantly adjustable by dial or arrow pad, a menu dive is required. In the "gears" menu then "utility" you will find "exposure shift". This function allows you to override the cameras chosen exposure setting in all three metering modes in 1/6 EV increments. With practice you can access and change the setting within 4 or 5 seconds. I think most of the cameras will remember the last menu you went to so hitting the menu button takes you straight back to the exposure shift function (I don't use the menus for anything else generally because all other settings I may want to change are accessed by direct button).
I use this function a lot with my E5 and EM1 bodies when shooting motorsport, particularly the race boat photography I do. I usually set the E5 to +2/6 to + 4/6 on sunny days to compensate for the cameras desire to under expose the photo because of the amount of white spray generated by the boats. The EM1 is a little better and usually only requires +1/6 to +2/6 although on some of the really bright sunny days we have here in Australia I might have to add a touch more. This would be perfect for shooting in the snow or largely white ice rinks where the camera wants to underexpose."
Now, not ideal I know, as it's not instantly adjustable but for what I'm shooting I don't need to make continual adjustments for every photo. I'm looking for a global change to suit a series of photographs (bursts) in similar conditions. Then I can change it in a couple of seconds when circumstances and conditions change.
Regards Ian Colley
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Allan Brown
Senior Member
You are correct that this method has been available for a long time, just not readily accessible.
I find it easier just to slightly move the camera around while watching the exposure meter or histogram and lock the exposure at the value I want.
This is one of the items that Olympus and Panasonic are slow to grasp and implement. Take a look at my post in this thread on overriding the IBIS for native lenses. Same thing - the ability is there but not implemented.
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Allan
IanColley
Leading Member
It's not implemented as it should be on the older bodies but it's still not that hard to do.
This method might be ok for single shots or multiple shots where the exposure was not going to change but it is of little to no use for a lot of what I shoot (and many others).
I need the camera to change exposure settings during shot bursts when changes of light and conditions change during that burst. So in shutter priority I need the camera to adjust aperture and or ISO to maintain correct exposure and in Manual mode I need the camera to adjust ISO to maintain correct exposure. I then need to be able to make an exposure compensation adjustment that allows me to fine tune (override) the cameras metered exposure to end up with the exposure I want. As I mentioned in the previous post when I shoot boat racing I have to allow for an enormous amount of white spray that can cause the metering system to under expose.
Regards Ian Colley
bobn2
Forum Pro
What do you mean by 'correct exposure'?
How do you know the exposure you want? In the method you discuss the exposure is changing all the time. So, is what is 'correct' changing all the time, or is 'the exposure you want' sometimes different from correct?
IanColley
Leading Member
Ah, I was hoping you wouldn't do that, ping me on the semantics of correct exposure, which is slightly off topic. We're talking about the use of exposure compensation in auto ISO in Manual mode and whether it was possible on older bodies. However, what I meant by correct exposure was what the camera deems as correct exposure for the conditions it reads at the time, according to the metering mode I am using. As I said though I may not like what it picks ( in my case generally underexposure) and I need to make an overriding adjustment from the cameras reading of the situation. Fortunately the camera generally behaves in a predictable and consistent way making it easy for me to make the exposure compensation amounts I need to get the exposure I want.
Regards Ian Colley
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bobn2
Forum Pro
Well, semantics is what things mean, which by and large when discussing anything is quite important. And since just about everything you said was based on this 'correct exposure' notion, what you mean by it is really of some relevance.
And also about why you might want to use it. Really, in any conversation related to exposure, what are your goals in setting exposure are quite important.
If that is the case, then we certainly don't need any EC ever, since if the camera 'deems' it to be 'correct', it is.
'Under' with respect to what? I'm also wondering why you might not like a particular exposure.
I notice you missed the other questions. The real topic here is really knowing what your camera's controls do, and therefore what different effects you get with various combinations of settings. The key thing with auto ISO is that changing ISO does not change exposure, it just changes the rendering of a given exposure. So, coming back to the beginning, what might or might be a good way of using it depends on what you're trying to do when you set exposure.
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Ride easy, William.
Bob
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