LX3 comments

Tom Caldwell

Community Leader
Forum Moderator
Messages
51,483
Solutions
20
Reaction score
21,813
Location
New South Wales, AU
Looks like Panasonic pulled some stops out here - not going to be a cheap point and shoot but more like a flagship, as was the LC1.

I wonder if the price might stop many that might otherwise consider this camera.

After (finally) taking some time to properly read the press release I note that in some ways the LX3 out-performs the GX200 in a technical sense. The "intuitive" interface remains to be seen and used before we all agree that they have matched Ricoh.

Of interest is the DC Vario-Summicron f2.0-2.4 lens as this seems to be the same type as the lens in the LC1 which had the same specifications but over a 28-90 zoom range equivalent as opposed to the 24-60 equivalent range of the LX3. If the lens is as good as that in the LC1 then it will be a very good lens indeed.

Low noise high iso images in low light with quiter fast lens focus tracking might start shaking the last bastions of the dslr where it has reamined the camera to use when the going gets tough.

Panasonic seem to be on a similar course to that with the LC1 - that camera was very good and very expensive at the same time and was obviously sold in relatively small numbers to more discerning users who were not overcome by the retail price. I admit to being overcome by the price but was lucky enough to find a "half-price" one towards the end of its marketed period.

The projected price of the LX3 puts it at the top end of the compact camera range and it will be interesting to see if the market will pay the premium to get the goods.

From my previous Panasonic purchases and my iintimate knowledge of the LC1 as well I can have no doubt that the LX3 will be a great camera.

The debate will rage over whether the GX200 or the LX3 produces "superior images" or whether one or the other is "more intuitive" but the fact is that they are both exceptional small cameras and personal preference and the size of your pocket book are going to be the final deciding factors.

The LX3 has a few tricks in there that Ricoh might be able to catch up with through firmware upgrades but in the end they are both fine cameras and the jury might be out for some time on this one.

--
Tom Caldwell
 
My only comment to your post Tom is that the LC1 user experience is not what the LX3 offers. Having recently purchased an FZ18 for my wife, I find that joystick very odd to use when compared to the GX-100. I would much rather have a simple interfaces dedicated to S and A, and not press the joystick only to be placed on the focus select point menu and have to navigate to the set the A or S and then move left again to set the EV. On the Fz18, they don't appear to be selectable so to change their order either.

When I switch between my Minolta 7D and any of my Ricohs, I find they work pretty much the same for how I shoot.

Having just lost out on another LC1 on ebay today, I am still considering the LX3 should I learn enough positives to warrant that purchase and don't find an LC1 beforehand. However, I believe that if I had an LC1, the LX3 wouldn't be a consideration. I realize that it is just my personal feeling based on two cameras I haven't yet used, but I see the LC1 interface as instinctive.. while IF the LX3 works similar to the Fz18 in its use of the joystick, then it just wouldn't be as instinctive to use.

I'm sure that many Panny users just love their joysticks, but unless the LX3 interface is better than what I have experienced with the Fz18, then they have some work to do before it will find the niche that would sway this Ricoh user. I love the specs of the lens, but so far based on the pictures posted, I would take the LC1 over the LX3 in the IQ category too.
 
Well put Tom. from what I saw on the Japanese web site the ISO noise and sharpness at ISO 400 and 800 comparison goes to the Pany over the Ricoh GX200 by a good margin IMO if you noticed that post. I have a feeling the LX3 is going to have the edge on image quality.

I think there will be a good market for the LX3. If people can afford any of the Ricoh offerings and Canon's G9, which a lot have, they will go for the LX3. A lot of dSLR owners want a good, fairly noise free camera that is wide, has RAW and can open up like the LX3 can.

The only fly in Pany's LX3 sales is if Canon comes out with an equally as good camera to replace the (aging) G9. And what ever happened to that little Nikon camera whose picture was floating around? A hoax? If Sigma ever refined the DP1 watch out, but that's a long long long shot.

--
Gil
 
The LC1 was a very special camera which cost a fortune (especially in Leica Livery) - and made the most of a very ordinary sensor (the one from the F717, E20, Dimage7, CP5000 etc) -- the LX3 isn't in the same category or thankfully price range, it may pull out the stops as far as a fast lens wide screen compact is concerned but it's no LC1 level cam from what I've seen, it'd have to be hewn from solid aluminium and have a manual zooming lens and at least an OVF to get a look in .........

BTW F2 lenses weren't Rare a while back - even Casio were using them (on the humble QV2000 for a start) as were ALL canon G series up to & including the G6 - Sony were the kings of the F2 lens on the S and F series and the F cams were Zeiss quality (the S70/75/80 used the Canon G1 lens rebadged) and all good optics too - only Fairly recently has there been a fad for horribly slow lenses on expensive cameras (Witness the Nikon P5x00 series) - a fad which I wish would stop ..

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

 
My only comment to your post Tom is that the LC1 user experience is
not what the LX3 offers. Having recently purchased an FZ18 for my
wife, I find that joystick very odd to use when compared to the
GX-100.
Been a while since I used the LX1 now but I do remember that its joystick control seemed to be an improvement over the interfaces of the FZ30 and other Panasonic cameras I have used. However the wheel twirl press and up-down of the GR-D and GX100 was better than the LX1 toggle control from memory. Perhaps the joystick toggle on the LX3 now works simmilarly to that on the Ricoh R8. The R8 joystick control might just have the edge on even the G series interface. However it does achieve this by the neat and intuitive way Ricoh assigns (user modifiable)menu controls to the joystick toggle. The only problem I have had with the R8 is sometimes in my excitement I have toggled and pressed in the wrong order and found myself adjusting the flash settings - however this is more user error than bad design on Ricoh's part.

Obvously it is not overly politically correct for the opposition to plagarise the exact way that the Ricoh controls work but a good nudge and wink at the Ricoh system would not go far wrong for the other manufacturers.

This highlights another of my small Ricoh peeves - the way the controls work is slightly different on each camera. However this is not a big issue and in the main the system is being progressed rather than stuck in a rut to ensure conformity.
Having just lost out on another LC1 on ebay today, ... I believe that if
I had an LC1, the LX3 wouldn't be a consideration.
I see the LC1 interface as instinctive.. while IF the LX3 works
similar to the Fz18 in its use of the joystick, then it just wouldn't
be as instinctive to use.
The LC1 is very intuitive from a mechanical point of view and the controls are on the lens barrel (focus and zoom), shutter speed on a rotating mechanical knob, on/off and review/capture modes are a swift thumb motion away. The zoom review is by a rotating thumbwheel surrounding the directional controls. And yet is is not absolutely perfect - the EV control that I have come to deeply respect in Ricoh-land is still part of a button select function menu.

The camera was a landmark in camera design and I am surprised that anyone would contemplate ever selling their LC1.
I'm sure that many Panny users just love their joysticks, but unless
the LX3 interface is better than what I have experienced with the
Fz18, then they have some work to do before it will find the niche
that would sway this Ricoh user. I love the specs of the lens, but so
far based on the pictures posted, I would take the LC1 over the LX3
in the IQ category too.
The proof is in the eating - I need another camera like a hole in the head but I seem to be keeping the best ones I find and passing on the "duds" - sometimes the duds are quite good anyway as cameras are however a "dud" for me is not in the imaging as such but more like a camera I don't enjoy using. The best camera in the world that is a pig to use just doesn't light my fire.

I certainly will look at the LX3 - its specifications are quite interesting - but to handle and actually use may well be something of another story.

--
Tom Caldwell
 
I have yet to find a compact camera (Ricoh included) where the manual controls are as good as lens barrel based controls. Having a retracting lens for obvious reasons makes the simple mechanical twist/set operation vitually impossible.

However the Ricoh adjustment wheel is a next-best thing - especially on the GR-D with the two wheels. Using a toggle to control manual settings leaves a little to be desired.

I don't think that there are any "wheels" on the LX3 (must have a closer look) and therefore manual settings must be adjusted by toggle. Well maye it will work ok but it does raise the first level of doubt on the "intuitiveness" of the LX3.

No point in rambling on - I like to try the camera myself but there is no doubt that most new cameras released don't stir me enough to want to try them out. The LX3 is one that I must try (I am a sucker for punishment).

The GX200 and LX3 are a very obvious choice for a rigorous test comparison - I guess dpreview et al have noticed this as well and I am sure it will happen. They can even throw in a DP1 as a control comparison (smile).

--
Tom Caldwell
 
The LC1 was a very special camera which cost a fortune (especially in
Leica Livery) - and made the most of a very ordinary sensor (the one
from the F717, E20, Dimage7, CP5000 etc)
Have to tell it as it is - the LC1 is not the answer to everyone's prayers - just a very well made camera ahead of its time - mainly a showpiece to exhibit the fact that Panasonic could build an impressive camera if it wanted to.

Note that the sensor on the LC1 has all of three ISO settings 100/200/400. The access to (not user adjustable) functions of: white balance; white balance adjustment; ISO level; and Focus type is by pressing a function button and using direction arrows to select one or another of these menus. Works quite well in practice.

Other funtions are buried in typical fashion in the general menu but there is another button that cycles through EV, exposure bracketing, and Flash EV settings. Works well enough but an upgraded sensor and a bit of menu tweaking would have worked wonders if they had ever made an LC2.

The wonder of the LC1 is that it was a well thought out unique camera that was built like a tank a loss-leader for Panasonic and valued especially because it is no longer made. Not so much that it was a statement of imaging perfection - however it doesn't do that bad a job.

--
Tom Caldwell
 
However the Ricoh adjustment wheel is a next-best thing - especially
on the GR-D with the two wheels. Using a toggle to control manual
settings leaves a little to be desired.

I don't think that there are any "wheels" on the LX3 (must have a
closer look) and therefore manual settings must be adjusted by
toggle. Well maye it will work ok but it does raise the first level
of doubt on the "intuitiveness" of the LX3.
No wheels on the LX3 - that toggle is going to get a workout - probably will work the same way as the LX1 - is ok but the Ricoh wheels are the standard to beat and a toggle to adjust the camera manually doesn't quite match them - but if you have not experienced the adjustment wheel on the GR-D you will probably think toggle adjustment is not that bad. Toggle does not look quite as "nice" as the one on the R8 which is about the best toggle adjustment button I have used.
--
Tom Caldwell
--
Tom Caldwell
 
Have to tell it as it is - the LC1 is not the answer to everyone's
prayers -
No, it had very slow AF too (made the FZ20 look like a speed demon) but the lens was a work of art optically even if the lettering did drift off and hte JPG engine was very good for the age of the cam with decent DR and just the right amout of NR and sharpening,, not the slowest camera in RAW either considering the age and the uncompressed files - faster than the GRD anyway !

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

 
Had to go and take a few pictures today with mine so that I could stroke it a bit (smile)

It is that sort of camera ...

--
Tom Caldwell
 
I took mine for a walk few days ago, just to make sure I still like it... :) And YES, I still do, ISO 100 only of caurse. Some pics have that 3D look. I'm wondering if I need to get one more, in case this one breaks :)) (I have similar feeling about E-1 and GRD, but the latest I'm sure will have at least few more new releases coming in the future)

But what if Panasonic will introduce LC3? I'm kinda contemplating.

--
Snap away :)
 
But what if Panasonic will introduce LC3? I'm kinda contemplating.
It would be an LC2 and sadly they won't as the market wouldn't be able to stand the price it would need to be with DSLRs now at rock bottom prices.. the LC1 didn't make them much money, that lens must have cost a lot to make too ...

If you're getting a spare, get the Digilux-2 badged one, apparently Leica are far more forthcoming if you get the CCD issue - worth the extra for that alone and certainly the Collector value

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

 
Where is the jury on the IQ? The inital 4 or so different sets of images from various sources looked under par to me. I haven't been checking since so it is possible there was an improvement?

--
This is my signature line, there are many like it but this one is mine.
 
Finally decided to replace my old, dying GRD-1 with something better. I snagged a very nice "in mint condition" another GRD-1 for around $300 on ebay. :)

I guess now I don't have to rush and can wait for LX3 to go down in price a little.

--
Snap away :)
 
Hi does it have the step zoom? I think i read it didn't, I really love that feature on the GX
 
have discovered some more photo samples of LX3 in Xitek - one of the most popular camera websites in china. these days they are pretty fast with the latest information.

http://info.xitek.com/1/2008/0728/3205.shtml

the camera used is still a trial model. so Panasonic requests not to show the full size photos. but judging from the small size photos (except the last one of the reservoir), IQ really seem quite competitive to any high-end DC now available.

Ricoh ! Speed up !!
 
Hi does it have the step zoom? I think i read it didn't, I really
love that feature on the GX
I was interested in this question too. It doesn't have a step zoom, but it does have two custom settings on the dial (like the Ricohs); however, unlike the Ricohs, apparently the LX3 custom settings dial will remember focal length.

Still isn't as convenient as a step zoom, but you could set two preferred focal lengths on the "custom settings" at least.
 

Keyboard shortcuts

Back
Top