Lumiquest ProMax Softbox

[Michael Salzlechner]

Andi

How can any of these devices change flash output with E-TTL (except if the flash is fired at full power) ?

The effect with most of these gadgets is different from simply reducing the flash output. The shadows do get softer and the highlights are less harsh. They can also be used to change the temperature of the flash light which is important to match ambient light.

Best thing of course is to bounce but not always available and in case of painted ceilings color casts can be really bad.

So depending on the situation most of these gadgets have their place.

Are they overpriced - Of course they are just like any other photography equipment. But of course you can always make your own if you dont want to spend the money.

--
Michael Salzlechner
StarZen Digital Imaging
http://www.starzen.com/imaging

 

[Andi Steiner]

When looking at the shadow definition (see shadows of her chin on
her throat)

I did dodge out the shadow in Photoshop before printing the image,

...aha.... ;-)

but if I had to stop & adjust the flash compensation I would have
missed the shot entirely.

Are you sure? Adjusting flash exposure is very easy (on a D30, at least).

If the softbox does absolutely nothing but help avoid burned out
highlights without messing with the flash output, it is still worth
using in my book.

What I ment is: Instead of going thorough the "hazzle" of putting your softbox on your flash "once", you could simply compensate flash exposure by -1 EV "once". I don't think this is too complicated. The results will be similar. I also like the results when underexposing the flash -2 EV and overexposing ambient light by approx. +1 EV.

Andi

--
Andreas Steiner Photography
http://www.andreassteiner.net/photography

 

[Andi Steiner]

How can any of these devices change flash output with E-TTL (except
if the flash is fired at full power) ?

Well, professionals aren't using E-TTL anyway, aren't they... ;-)

Seriously: What I ment is flash exposure compenssation. This works with E-TTL as with any other flash exposure system.

The effect with most of these gadgets is different from simply
reducing the flash output. The shadows do get softer and the
highlights are less harsh.

In such a general forumulation, this is wrong. See http://www.lumiquest.com/frmhow.htm for a good overview of the underlying physical facts.
a) Diffusors are diffusors and their softening effect is very limited

b) Reflectors create soft light the bigger they are: Why sdo you think they use 2m umbrellas / softboxes in studios when little thingies like Lumiquest Softboxes would do? For a portrait, the minimum size of a softbox is approx 50x50cm!

They can also be used to change the
temperature of the flash light which is important to match ambient
light.

That's a valid and important point. But that's not how Lumiquest Softbox for that or a Stofen Omnibounce are marketed. Some foil from the studio equipment store will do the same for much cheaper, bte.

So depending on the situation most of these gadgets have their place.

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying...
a) Diffusors for inreasing the angle of illumination

b) Reflectors and softboxes to create a soft light source (the size needed depends on the size of the object photographed)
d) Filters to nicely blend foreground/background color temperatur

Andi

--
Andreas Steiner Photography
http://www.andreassteiner.net/photography

 

[Michael Salzlechner]

Well, professionals aren't using E-TTL anyway, aren't they... ;-)

Actually some are some may not. if somebody knows how to use it they do if they dont they blame the equipment... ;-)

RE: Seriously: What I ment is flash exposure compenssation.

No what you said is that using any of these devices is the same as changing flash exposure compensation which of course is wrong as E-TTL would compensate for putting it on if it only cut power.

RE: > In such a general forumulation, this is wrong. See

No it is not. Like i said if you where right and all they did was cut power you wouldnt notice any difference when using E-TTL as it would simply compensate (again the exception would be if the flash was firing on full power without the gadget and couldnt output more to compensate for it)

As a matter of fact you do get a difference shooting with or without these gadgets when using E-TTL which proofs my point that they dont simply cut power.

Of course a big softbox will be better than using these gadgets.

It seems that one thing you dont understand is that these gadgets are for specific uses. One wouldnt use them in a studio to take portraits. One uses them in specific situations where they produce better results then just a flash by itself.

And actually the omnibounce is marketed that way as you can buy it in different colors for different uses. Lumiquest sells a special kit with color gels and one can use little filter samples that will fit perfectly into an Omnibounce.

--
Michael Salzlechner
StarZen Digital Imaging
http://www.starzen.com/imaging

 

[Juli Valley]

Here's one.



http://www.pbase.com/julivalley/galleries
http://www.photosig.com/viewuser.php?id=19579
Canon D-60 on order, C-2100UZ, C-3040Z, A-28, B-3oo
3o4o
Juli

 

[Nill Toulme]

Yes but what's wrong with that? I bounce off walls (hmmm... in more ways than one) as often as ceilings (hmmm... also in more ways than one).

As for the bracket question, a rotating bracket like the Newton will keep the flash on top of the camera in either portrait or landscape position.

Nill

Why?

Difficult to explain in words. Play around with one in a shop. If
you turn the camera vertial, the 80-20 will fire into the wall.

And speaking of which, I'm still trying to figure out what
flash bracket (or brackets) to buy for my D60.

I don't know about flash brackets (I use the on for the Met 45).
But I actually think one can't solve the problem simply with a
bracket.

 

[Andi Steiner]

No what you said is that using any of these devices is the same as
changing flash exposure compensation which of course is wrong as
E-TTL would compensate for putting it on if it only cut power.

As it is practically impossible to predict what E-TTL is doing, this is not a very productive discussion. Further, as I said above, I tested the Lumiquest UltraBounce on a 220EX; as you suggested above, it is possible that this flash already fired at full power.

As a matter of fact you do get a difference shooting with or
without these gadgets when using E-TTL which proofs my point that
they dont simply cut power.

With what gadget in which situation? My original comment on JohnM's picture referred to the fact that the Lumiquest softbox seems to be too small for children portraits because it does not produce soft lighting.

Of course a big softbox will be better than using these gadgets.

My comment reg. the above picture is that the difference between using a well-dosed (eventually manually reduced) amount of direct flash could have achieved the same effect as using a Lumiquest Softbox. To me, for this specific application, the Lumiquest Softbox looks like being next to useless.

It seems that one thing you dont understand is that these gadgets
are for specific uses.

I think I understand this fairly well.

Andi

--
Andreas Steiner Photography
http://www.andreassteiner.net/photography

 

[Andi Steiner]

Yes but what's wrong with that? I bounce off walls (hmmm... in
more ways than one) as often as ceilings (hmmm... also in more ways
than one).

People usually have less furniture or curtains on their ceiling than along their walls...

...further, flash pictures bounced off the wall look different thean bounced off the wall; both methods can be OK, its' just that I don't like to mix them.

As for the bracket question, a rotating bracket like the Newton
will keep the flash on top of the camera in either portrait or
landscape position.

If you like to work with monsters like that - perfect for you: Go and get it, together with a Lumiquest 80-20.

Andi

--
Andreas Steiner Photography
http://www.andreassteiner.net/photography

 

[Michael Salzlechner]

Andi

like i said these gagdets are not meant to replace studio equipment.

You cant run around with large umbrella's and softboxes at a kids birthday party. For these types of situations these gadgets are better than not having them.

predicting what E-TTL is doing is just the same as predicting what A-TTL or a thyristor flash is doing. If you learn how it works you will know what it will do in a given situation. If you just mash the shutter without thinking about it you will not be able to predict the outcome no matter what equipment is being used.

-
Michael Salzlechner
StarZen Digital Imaging
http://www.starzen.com/imaging

 

[Nill Toulme]

Heh... my stuff seems to get bigger all the time. You know people often accuse us photo geeks of "hiding behind the camera." In my case maybe that's literally true.

The ProMax System includes the 80-20. Check it out; it's a very cool package, and it's only about $35.

http://www.lumiquest.com/lq931d.htm

Nill

As for the bracket question, a rotating bracket like the Newton
will keep the flash on top of the camera in either portrait or
landscape position.

If you like to work with monsters like that - perfect for you: Go
and get it, together with a Lumiquest 80-20.

 

[jan sanders77139]

you can use the 80/20 in the vertical position if you insert the white, gold or silver panel insert to close of the top off, thus the 80% of flash light that would have gone up or to the side is bounced and reflected towards your subject.

Jan Sanders
Los Angeles

Yes but what's wrong with that? I bounce off walls (hmmm... in
more ways than one) as often as ceilings (hmmm... also in more ways
than one).

People usually have less furniture or curtains on their ceiling
than along their walls...
...further, flash pictures bounced off the wall look different
thean bounced off the wall; both methods can be OK, its' just that
I don't like to mix them.

As for the bracket question, a rotating bracket like the Newton
will keep the flash on top of the camera in either portrait or
landscape position.

If you like to work with monsters like that - perfect for you: Go
and get it, together with a Lumiquest 80-20.

Andi

--
Andreas Steiner Photography
http://www.andreassteiner.net/photography

 

[Keith]

Hey Mike,

A bit off topic, but I just wanted to say that I've learned a lot from your various posts on using E-TTL properly and after experimenting a bit with some of your advice I am really pleased with how the wireless multi-flash setup works with D60,ST-E2, etc.

Right now I'm only using 2 off camera flashes bounced into umbrellas, but will probably buy one more in the near future. After some experimentation and reading I'm now very happy with the results.

You're right, it is a different way of thinking about it (E-TTL vs. thyristor, etc.) but once the concept is clear on what it's trying to do, the system is really pretty easy to work with.

Thanks for the evangelizing of a somewhat maligned system!

-Keith

Andi

like i said these gagdets are not meant to replace studio equipment.

You cant run around with large umbrella's and softboxes at a kids
birthday party. For these types of situations these gadgets are
better than not having them.

predicting what E-TTL is doing is just the same as predicting what
A-TTL or a thyristor flash is doing. If you learn how it works you
will know what it will do in a given situation. If you just mash
the shutter without thinking about it you will not be able to
predict the outcome no matter what equipment is being used.

-
Michael Salzlechner
StarZen Digital Imaging
http://www.starzen.com/imaging

 

[JohnM31499]

Andi

like i said these gagdets are not meant to replace studio equipment.

You cant run around with large umbrella's and softboxes at a kids
birthday party. For these types of situations these gadgets are
better than not having them.

trying to say I guess. I agree, my picture would have been better with two 800 watt AlienBee's firing into umbrellas, but when that is not available I can't agree that there is no effect from using the Lumiquest softbox.

If I take the exact same picture with direct flash & then with the softbox, anyone who looks at it can tell which is which, & it is not as simple a difference as dialing in less flash.

-John

 

[FUCK DPREVIEW!!]

The ProMax System includes the 80-20. Check it out; it's a very
cool package, and it's only about $35.

Well, I do have the Promax system...?!?

Andi

 

[Kbone]

Anyone use one? How do you like it? I have been uisng a white card
ruber banded on my flash and am thinking of changing to a larger
light source.

Paul

I use a Lumiquest Mini Softbox on my 420EX and it works quite nicely. It was only about $18 if I remember correctly so how can you go wrong?
-Kevin

--
Canon D60, BG-ED3, 50mm f/1.8, 28-135mm IS/USM, 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro, 420EX
See some of my photographs at:
http://pages.cthome.net/cassella/index.htm

 

[FUCK DPREVIEW!!]

If you learn how it works you
will know what it will do in a given situation.

Canon doesn't want me to use E-TTL because...

• AF, E-TTL flash exposure is based primarily on the metering

zone covering the active focusing point. That's nonsese, luckily....

• In the case of FEL with the D30, flash exposure is always measured from

the center of the picture area, with a metering zone that roughly
corresponds to the partial metering circle in the viewfinder. This would be
the workaround, but...

• One cannot use FEL when using CF 2-1.And that's exactly what most

people do.

So even if E-TTL is great - Canon managed to implement it in a way so that nobody can use it.

More importantly, E-TTL is a "black box"; maybe useful for the people using their camera in auto mode, but definitly not useful for people who want to have full control over what their camera is doing.

Messing around with E-TTL isn't "learning"; isn't applying work-arounds to a flawed system (You can find all the details on http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/ ).

Andi

 

[FUCK DPREVIEW!!]

I can't agree that there is no effect from using the Lumiquest softbox.

You can believe me that I am the first one changing my opinion if you can show me samples taken with a a flash light modifier which actually works!

If I take the exact same picture with direct flash & then with the
softbox, anyone who looks at it can tell which is which, & it is
not as simple a difference as dialing in less flash.

Could you share these pictures with us so that we have the same eye-opener as you seemd to have?

Awaiting...
Andi

 

[Nill Toulme]

Oh sorry. I thought you did not, because I thought I had I started this strand of the the thread by saying I had just bought the System, and then you said "Go and get [a bracket], together with a Lumiquest 80-20." So I thought you must not know that the 80-20 is included in the System. No worries.

Cheers,

Nill

The ProMax System includes the 80-20. Check it out; it's a very
cool package, and it's only about $35.

Well, I do have the Promax system...?!?

 

[FUCK DPREVIEW!!]

No worries.

...LOL...

No problem
Andi

 

[Darius]

...like 550 EX and than you may see difference.
Thanks Darius.

Anyone use one? How do you like it? I have been uisng a white card
ruber banded on my flash and am thinking of changing to a larger
light source.

Paul

I use a Lumiquest Mini Softbox on my 420EX and it works quite
nicely. It was only about $18 if I remember correctly so how can
you go wrong?
-Kevin

--
Canon D60, BG-ED3, 50mm f/1.8, 28-135mm IS/USM, 100mm f/2.8 USM
Macro, 420EX
See some of my photographs at:
http://pages.cthome.net/cassella/index.htm