Linux users - dpreview's lost tribe

[Gordon S Walker]

but got fed up of the bickering between two people, we don't need a Linux forum since Linux runs on both PC and Mac.

If there was to be a Linux forum then we'd need an OSX forum, Windows forum, Linux forum etc etc.

I think, as others do, that the answers to Linux questions can be answered in the forums we already have.
--
It's an L of a life, this photography lark

http://www.freelancephotographic.net/

 

[Karl Piers]

If you've read this far you should understand the argument. Since there's already a Mac Talk and PC Talk forum, it's hardly a big step to add a Linux Talk forum. You wouldn't have to use it - it would make no difference to you. But those who do want such a forum, could use it. It's about choice.

 

[Gordon S Walker]

I also agree that choice is wonderful. Are there any forums for photography which do have a Linux section ?

--
It's an L of a life, this photography lark

http://www.freelancephotographic.net/

 

[Karl Piers]

An English example:-

http://photolinux.forum-libre.info/index.php

A German site with exactly the forum division I suggested - Windows, Mac, Linux - under Software (dpreview doesn't do hierarchical forums for some reason):-

http://www.dslr-community.de/vb3/index.php

 

[newmikey]

DSLR Community:

Linux
Last message 25. June 2007
Total 1 messages 8 replies
Mac
No messages 0 0
Windows
Last message 24. November 2007
Total 3 messages 9 replies

PhotoLinux:

Total number of registered users: 18
Total number of topics: 56
Total number of posts: 129

For contrast:

Dpreview.com:
Month impressions Unique visitors Visitor sessions
May 2006 58,856,462 6,390,781 19,627,600
June 2006 63,380,797 6,169,062 19,218,573
July 2006 59,344,144 6,070,802 18,758,315
August 2006 67,229,422 6,667,303 20,837,578
September 2006 69,149,052 6,972,897 21,988,640
October 2006 67,023,992 6,819,740 21,713,283
November 2006 67,102,832 7,186,217 22,053,203
December 2006 73,212,242 7,532,256 22,302,341
January 2007 63,532,739 6,765,618 21,971,939
February 2007 52,851,063 6,550,678 21,111,904
March 2007 66,956,954 7,709,632 25,260,047
April 2007 61,964,654 6,957,615 22,536,989
May 2007 66,945,229 7,489,851 27,785,312

PclinuxOS.com:
183449 Posts in 24207 Topics by 20330 Members. Latest Member: 8200
Latest Post: "Re: remastering SAM" ( Today at 09:23:19 AM )

PclinuxOS.nl

6530 aantal berichten in 1267 topics door 490 geregistreerde leden. Nieuwste lid: alexis
Laatste bericht: "Re: AWN start niet?" ( Vandaag om 09:31:32 )

--
http://www.pbase.com/newmikey
PCLinuxOS Digital Photography Edition
http://www.dfpe.pclinuxos.nl/

 

[Karl Piers]

The relevant figures are the posts on dpreview for Linux. They show the interest level here in Linux. The argument all along was for a forum here, not a separate site.

 

[newmikey]

The relevant figures are the posts on dpreview for Linux. They show
the interest level here in Linux. The argument all along was for a
forum here, not a separate site.

The posts on Dpreview that mention the word Linux are no indication at all. Let's remember that this is a photography site, so the mention of the word "linux" in a post could be somebody's signature and might not relate at all to the content of the message.

Secondly, somebody asking about installation problems or packages (deb/rpm/src) might be better off getting support on his/her distro's own forum. I suppose you would agree that if a Linux forum is needed on Dpreview, it should be for photography-related issues.

Why don't we look at stats for photography related programs/subjects that originated on Linux, but are known to be cross platform? (and let's relate that to the 18,660 for linux or the same program combined with Windows/Mac)

14,109 for gimp (2,333 for linux gimp)
2,475 for ufraw (575 for linux ufraw)
6,390 for dcraw (571 for linux dcraw)
455 for cinepaint (215 for linux cinepaint)
8,499 for windows photography (557 for linux photography)
6,262 for mac photography
5,249 for windows post processing (323 for linux post processing)
2,997 for mac post processing
19,978 for windows raw (2,192 for linux raw)

Now, again, there definitely IS a place for Linux photography related issues, I just don't believe it is here on Dpreview.

I just claim it would benefit Linux users to look for the appropriate info in the PC talk forum as the hit rate on solving f.i. a Gimp plugin issue will always be higher there.

If someone has an issue with Bibble, he could off course post "colors not right with Bibble on Linux" but the solution AND the problem are both likely to affect both Windows and Linux users anyway.

Again, Karl, the idea is flawed in that it assumes Linux users are using totally different software than Windows users. That may have been true at some time in the past, but not anymore and certainly not in future with the possible exception of PS and camera-specific software. For the latter, as you prove yourself, once you succeed in running it under Wine, you are really not using it on Linux anymore.

For once I hope you will at least accept the above as motivation, even if you do not agree.

--
http://www.pbase.com/newmikey
PCLinuxOS Digital Photography Edition
http://www.dfpe.pclinuxos.nl/

 

[Karl Piers]

The posts on Dpreview that mention the word Linux are no indication at all.

That's far too strong. It's an indication, and probably as good as you are going to get without a very detailed analysis. Yes, there will be posts which aren't relevant. That said, there will also be Linux related posts where the word Linux isn't involved ... e.g. a thread starts with Linux, and then subsequent replies deal with the issue at hand.

Now, again, there definitely IS a place for Linux photography related issues, I just don't believe it is here on Dpreview.

This is the important division between us. It's fair enough to say you wouldn't use such a forum. But to argue further that no-one else should even have the opportunity to use one here, even if they want it, is a terribly restrictive position.

An empirical verification would be easier. i.e. create the forum, and put it to the test. Let the users themselves decide.

For the latter, as you prove yourself, once you succeed in
running it under Wine, you are really not using it on Linux anymore.

Getting an application to work under wine shouldn't be overstepped so lightly. This is a major hurdle. Many apps work to some extent, but have significant bugs too. All of which is Linux specific. And applications break in wine, even if they worked in earlier releases.

 

[newmikey]

The posts on Dpreview that mention the word Linux are no indication at all.

That's far too strong. It's an indication, and probably as good as
you are going to get without a very detailed analysis. Yes, there
will be posts which aren't relevant. That said, there will also be
Linux related posts where the word Linux isn't involved ... e.g. a
thread starts with Linux, and then subsequent replies deal with the
issue at hand.

Yes, I do not necessarily disagree with you there. I would even say that is a good thing; photo software does not necessarily dictate the OS it is run on. To me, and that's the difference between both of us, this indicates the need NOT to have OS specific forums on dpreview.

Now, again, there definitely IS a place for Linux photography related issues, I just don't believe it is here on Dpreview.

This is the important division between us. It's fair enough to say
you wouldn't use such a forum. But to argue further that no-one else
should even have the opportunity to use one here, even if they want
it, is a terribly restrictive position.

I did not argue that no-one else should even have the opportunity, I argued not many would actually use such a forum. That is not at all a restrictive position and the (lack of) positive replies to your plea might (and I stress: might) indicate that to be true. I saw no great outpouring of consent although I am convinced there is a considerable Linux user base on dpreview.

An empirical verification would be easier. i.e. create the forum, and
put it to the test. Let the users themselves decide.

Well, you already offered the users a chance to decide. You stated the wish for such a forum and tested the waters. Would the outcome have been a massive "yes", I am sure somebody at dpreview would have looked long and hard at a testperiod such as you suggest here. Without this massive popular response, there seems to be little need to confirm the obvious.

For the latter, as you prove yourself, once you succeed in
running it under Wine, you are really not using it on Linux anymore.

Getting an application to work under wine shouldn't be overstepped so
lightly. This is a major hurdle. Many apps work to some extent, but
have significant bugs too. All of which is Linux specific. And
applications break in wine, even if they worked in earlier releases.

Well, again, I have to agree with you there. Again though, I think the reason for such an app to fail under Wine would be OS specific or Wine-coding specific, not at all photography related. Therefore I believe that if application X refuses to run under Wine in distro Y, you should address this through bugreporting tools of both the Wine developers as the user/developer community forum of disto Y. That way, more people get to benefit from a fix.

Like I said before, we will not see eye to eye on this. I am glad we did get to the point of an almost civil discussion.

--
http://www.pbase.com/newmikey
PCLinuxOS Digital Photography Edition
http://www.dfpe.pclinuxos.nl/

 

[LeRentier]

If we follow your reasoning, we could do away with the existing forums for PC and Mac and maybe have ones per image manipulating software package.

It is true that we use software to enhance or destroy our images, depending on whom you ask and the software package will provide the same functions on whatever platform we use it.

You convinced me :

OUT with the PC and Mac forums and IN with Software forums.

 

[iksomodo]

. . .

I'd recommend the free program Gimp (www.gimp.org) for any serious
photo editing. Personally I use UFRaw (also free) for opening RAW
files; it supports many formats, including PEF. Both are available
for Linux, Mac, and Windows.

Thanks!

 

[iksomodo]

http://linuxphoto.org/software.html

http://wiki.osphoto.org/index.php/The_big_picture

. . .

Thanks!

 

[iksomodo]

Thanks!

 

[iksomodo]

. . .

Digikam is probably a good choice for common manipulation tasks. For
the more feature-hungry people Gimp and Krita are probably worth a
look as well.

. . .

. . . if commercial software is not an issue,
there is also Bibble / Bibble Pro, which I mostly use today for my
own RAW conversion needs. The Linux version seems to have some
stability issues on some configurations, but it's not been
overwhelmingly annoying to me. It seems to support a good number of
Pentax cameras as well.

Thanks!

 

[Karl Piers]

I saw no great outpouring of consent although I am convinced there is a considerable Linux user base on dpreview.

There's no outpouring for your view either. Since you are so convinced of your position, start threads in Mac Talk and PC Talk. Your view is buried in a thread ostensibly on Linux. The majority of users of those forums won't have come across your suggestion. Try them, if you dare. And what reaction do you expect telling Windows and Mac users that their forums should be merged, all the while having a Linux photography signature at the end of each post?

An empirical verification would be easier. i.e. create the forum, and
put it to the test. Let the users themselves decide.

Well, you already offered the users a chance to decide. You stated
the wish for such a forum and tested the waters. Would the outcome
have been a massive "yes", I am sure somebody at dpreview would have
looked long and hard at a testperiod such as you suggest here.
Without this massive popular response, there seems to be little need
to confirm the obvious.

The obvious is that your expressed view is and remains inconsistent with your own site. It is something you remain totally blind to.

Interest on this issue cannot be easily gauged by responses to one post on one forum, particularly when Linux users have no particular forum they use.

In your case however, you can go to PC Talk and Mac Talk and present your views. You'd be in the right forums, and the users there who are active will let you know right away what they think.

For the latter, as you prove yourself, once you succeed in
running it under Wine, you are really not using it on Linux anymore.

Getting an application to work under wine shouldn't be overstepped so
lightly. This is a major hurdle. Many apps work to some extent, but
have significant bugs too. All of which is Linux specific. And
applications break in wine, even if they worked in earlier releases.

Well, again, I have to agree with you there. Again though, I think
the reason for such an app to fail under Wine would be OS specific or
Wine-coding specific, not at all photography related. Therefore I
believe that if application X refuses to run under Wine in distro Y,
you should address this through bugreporting tools of both the Wine
developers as the user/developer community forum of disto Y. That
way, more people get to benefit from a fix.

Again. If you believe this, there is no place for a Linux photography website.

 

[Medic Laviña]

I just hope I don't grow old the same way they do... That would be a boring life.

--
Medic
-----------------------------------------------------

• The camera is mightier than the pen.

 

[captura]

dpreview provides no specific forum for Linux users. The current division between "Mac Talk" and "PC Talk" is unfortunate, since it conflates hardware and operating systems.

I would like to request a redivision to "Mac Talk", "Windows Talk", and "Linux Talk".

An old thread, but still a very relevant point.

I posed the question of having no LINUX discussion place to the PC talk forum yesterday, and got no responses.

Linus offers a number of advantages over MAC and Windows to some users.

 

[Computer Whiz]

iPods have very little to do with photography.

Actually, iPods have a lot to do with photography. Other than the
shuffle, an iPod is very convenient to store and display photos, and
prior to the current models, could be used to copy images off memory
cards instead of carrying a laptop (although not a particularly
effective one since they weren't really designed for that).

Another spoiler. This thread is just a reasonable request for a forum.

There is a forum. It's called PC Talk. PC is for Personal Computer. Doesn't matter what operating system is on it.

 

[Computer Whiz]

Yeah, let's also add forums for camera phones since they are more
photography-related than Linux. And why not add cars and suv forums
as well? We use them to get to other places where we do our shoots.

I can't wait to read entertaining debates on which camera phone to
buy, or troll posts describing how Kia or Hyundai sucks. LOL!

Medic - the prize for the most idiotic comment goes to you.

I didn't know prizes were given out. What exactly did he get?

 

[Andreas Stuebs]

Meanwhile, a search for 'John' in the Open Talk forum returns 374,755 results. So I guess by the numbers there should be a forum for people named 'John'?

I second that! but it'll have to include all the differene language versions of John: Ian, Sean, Evan, Ewan, Johannes, Jan, Hans, Jens, Ioannes, Jean, Yann, Giovanni, Gianni, Juan, Joan, João, Ion, Ioan .. plus any I may have missed