Lets stop the arguments and probe what is said...

[lec_eos]

Can anyone post samples of pictures taken with a "PRO" camera that the 300D could not take?

By the same token, if someone has Pictures that can defeat the ones posted please do so.

Lets demonstrate with results where the 300D stands...

 

[Daniella68313]

I don't have a pro camera but here is some shots that a "PRO" camera could handle..even a 300$ point and shoot...

but they all came out either overexposed or underexposed with the 300d...all 76 of them!

in fact..this one was my best:

http://www.pbase.com/image/23374967

and mostly very overexposed or underexposed like this one, depending if I was focusing on the light or dark area....yes focusing.

http://www.pbase.com/image/23374969

I never had any problem to take those lemurs with my C700uz 300$ point and shoot and my Dimage 7.

Can anyone post samples of pictures taken with a "PRO" camera that
the 300D could not take?

By the same token, if someone has Pictures that can defeat the ones
posted please do so.

Lets demonstrate with results where the 300D stands...

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

 

[lec_eos]

but they all came out either overexposed or underexposed with the
300d...all 76 of them!

in fact..this one was my best:

http://www.pbase.com/image/23374967

and mostly very overexposed or underexposed like this one,
depending if I was focusing on the light or dark area....yes
focusing.

http://www.pbase.com/image/23374969

I never had any problem to take those lemurs with my C700uz 300$
point and shoot and my Dimage 7.

Can anyone post samples of pictures taken with a "PRO" camera that
the 300D could not take?

By the same token, if someone has Pictures that can defeat the ones
posted please do so.

Lets demonstrate with results where the 300D stands...

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

Thanks Daniella.

Were the light conditions low? What lens did you use?

do you think that this is a camera issue?

 

[vmartinez67]

says you were in shutter priority so you set it at 1/3200, and Compensated -1/3 stop....intentionally UNDEREXPOSED?!
What up with that?

but they all came out either overexposed or underexposed with the
300d...all 76 of them!

in fact..this one was my best:

http://www.pbase.com/image/23374967

and mostly very overexposed or underexposed like this one,
depending if I was focusing on the light or dark area....yes
focusing.

http://www.pbase.com/image/23374969

I never had any problem to take those lemurs with my C700uz 300$
point and shoot and my Dimage 7.

Can anyone post samples of pictures taken with a "PRO" camera that
the 300D could not take?

By the same token, if someone has Pictures that can defeat the ones
posted please do so.

Lets demonstrate with results where the 300D stands...

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

Thanks Daniella.

Were the light conditions low? What lens did you use?

do you think that this is a camera issue?

--
I have nothing to say I never have and I never will
-Johnny Rotten

vmartinez67

 

[DigRblMark]

I expect the problem is that you need to do a little more work with the 300D than a point and shoot camera. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the two biggest problems any SLR (digital or film) will have with exposures are white and black subjects. Metering off the white subject will tend to underexpose while metering off of a black subject will tend to overexpose. This can simply be overcome the same way you would on a regular SLR: either meter and adjust one stop up or down, or use a gray card.

We shouldn't fault the camera for behaving the way a regular SLR does (at least in this situation).

but they all came out either overexposed or underexposed with the
300d...all 76 of them!

in fact..this one was my best:

http://www.pbase.com/image/23374967

and mostly very overexposed or underexposed like this one,
depending if I was focusing on the light or dark area....yes
focusing.

http://www.pbase.com/image/23374969

I never had any problem to take those lemurs with my C700uz 300$
point and shoot and my Dimage 7.

Can anyone post samples of pictures taken with a "PRO" camera that
the 300D could not take?

By the same token, if someone has Pictures that can defeat the ones
posted please do so.

Lets demonstrate with results where the 300D stands...

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

 

[David Barker91965]

says you were in shutter priority so you set it at 1/3200, and
Compensated -1/3 stop....intentionally UNDEREXPOSED?!
What up with that?

As Daniella's other example also shows the same downward adjustment of 1/3 stop I would guess that she perhaps uses this adjustment routinely as a partial protection against burnt-out highlights (better slightly underexposed than over).

Having said that, it would be pretty difficult to meter this subject adequately in what looks like fairly bright sunlight, and although I'm not automatically springing to the defence of the camera, I think quite a few other cameras would yield similar results with such an extreme example in rather harsh light. There must be several (> 4-5?) stops difference between the black and the white parts of the fur, and as with penguins, gulls, killer whales, puffins etc. there is a compromise to be sought between losing shadow detail and burning out highlights.

It's a difficult subject, and most cameras would struggle to a degree. Whether the 300D is significantly worse than most I couldn't say.

--
David Barker

 

[Wm. Bates]

You have an extreme contrast subject in very extreme lighting. This is where we seperate the amatuers from the pros not pro cameras from consumer cameras. Meter for the black and bump exposure bias +1/3 to +1. You may blow the white but that isn't much of a problem because it is white. If it is more stops of light than the sensor will handle you have two choices. Shoot RAW and make two conversions and then blend. That is the easy one and the way I would go. Or two exposures one for the white and one for the black and blend. Simple

This is the kind of place where are old Minolta D7 had a real advantage. Just put it in manual and adjust till it looked good in the preview. With the rebel it will take some real understanding of what works. BIG HINT.... set the image review to always show the info. Take the pic look at the histogram and adjust the bias. It is simple and you won't have so many bad shots.

but they all came out either overexposed or underexposed with the
300d...all 76 of them!

in fact..this one was my best:

http://www.pbase.com/image/23374967

and mostly very overexposed or underexposed like this one,
depending if I was focusing on the light or dark area....yes
focusing.

http://www.pbase.com/image/23374969

I never had any problem to take those lemurs with my C700uz 300$
point and shoot and my Dimage 7.

Can anyone post samples of pictures taken with a "PRO" camera that
the 300D could not take?

By the same token, if someone has Pictures that can defeat the ones
posted please do so.

Lets demonstrate with results where the 300D stands...

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

--
Bill
http://www.pbase.com/slowpokebill
'Sometime the magic works. Sometimes it doesn't'

 

[carl56771]

either meter and adjust one

stop up or down, or use a gray card.

By using a gray card, do you mean holding a gray card out in front of the camera (where it would be exposed to the same lioght as the subject) and doing an exposure lock on it?
Carl

 

[DigRblMark]

Yep, the same as you would for a film SLR.

stop up or down, or use a gray card.

By using a gray card, do you mean holding a gray card out in front
of the camera (where it would be exposed to the same lioght as the
subject) and doing an exposure lock on it?
Carl

 

[Daniella68313]

the light was sunny.

I think this is a meetering issue. Because I was using central focusing point..the meetering is linked to that and the camera simply does not use evaluative meetering to take into consideration other areas where I am not focusing. I should have done an exposure lock on the neutral gray branches maybe? I have no idea but all I know is that it is not a lens issue..it is the way the stupid meetering works.

I coudl have used the 7 points focus and that might have helped not sure. I will try that next time but it's a real bummer.

I don,t have the camera right now..it is at Canon for service for shutter problem.

Thanks Daniella.

Were the light conditions low? What lens did you use?

do you think that this is a camera issue?

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

 

[Daniella68313]

that does not make sense...I shooted those photo at the same mode and did not change anythign in between..I think I was in Av mode...this does not make much sense..I just focused and shooted..if I was in Tv..it would have used 1/3200 for all photos...

let me check that..somethign is very wrong here.

I did use exposure compensation at some point to try to avoid blown out highlights.

but they all came out either overexposed or underexposed with the
300d...all 76 of them!

in fact..this one was my best:

http://www.pbase.com/image/23374967

and mostly very overexposed or underexposed like this one,
depending if I was focusing on the light or dark area....yes
focusing.

http://www.pbase.com/image/23374969

I never had any problem to take those lemurs with my C700uz 300$
point and shoot and my Dimage 7.

Can anyone post samples of pictures taken with a "PRO" camera that
the 300D could not take?

By the same token, if someone has Pictures that can defeat the ones
posted please do so.

Lets demonstrate with results where the 300D stands...

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

Thanks Daniella.

Were the light conditions low? What lens did you use?

do you think that this is a camera issue?

--
I have nothing to say I never have and I never will
-Johnny Rotten

vmartinez67

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

 

[jlo185420]

David, good catch. The problem IS that Daniella chose SHUTTER priority and chose a shutter speed of 1/3200. With a maximum (I am guessing here) aperture of f/5.6, there just isn't enough light to shoot at 1/3200. Forget about the -1/3 EC.

jlo

says you were in shutter priority so you set it at 1/3200, and
Compensated -1/3 stop....intentionally UNDEREXPOSED?!
What up with that?

As Daniella's other example also shows the same downward adjustment
of 1/3 stop I would guess that she perhaps uses this adjustment
routinely as a partial protection against burnt-out highlights
(better slightly underexposed than over).

Having said that, it would be pretty difficult to meter this
subject adequately in what looks like fairly bright sunlight, and
although I'm not automatically springing to the defence of the
camera, I think quite a few other cameras would yield similar
results with such an extreme example in rather harsh light. There
must be several (> 4-5?) stops difference between the black and the
white parts of the fur, and as with penguins, gulls, killer whales,
puffins etc. there is a compromise to be sought between losing
shadow detail and burning out highlights.

It's a difficult subject, and most cameras would struggle to a
degree. Whether the 300D is significantly worse than most I
couldn't say.

--
David Barker

 

[Daniella68313]

here is the exif date from the Canon file viewer. It says shooting mode Aperture priorioty..that is the mode that I shooted all my photos that day.

download the photo and look at it in the Canon file browser...you will see this:

File Name
IMG_4941.JPG
Camera Model Name
Canon EOS DIGITAL REBEL
Shooting Date/Time
2003-11-13 14:00:03
Shooting Mode
Aperture-Priority AE
Tv( Shutter Speed )
1/3200
Av( Aperture Value )
5.6
Metering Mode
Evaluative
Exposure Compensation
-1/3
ISO Speed
400
Lens
70.0 - 300.0 mm
Focal Length
300.0 mm
Image Size
3072x2048
Image Quality
Fine
Flash
Off
White Balance
Auto
AF Mode
AI Focus AF
Parameters
Contrast -1
Sharpness Normal
Color saturation +1
Color tone Normal
Color Space
sRGB
File Size
2276KB
Drive Mode
Continuous shooting
Owner's Name
Camera Body No.
0560008375

let me check that..somethign is very wrong here.

I did use exposure compensation at some point to try to avoid blown
out highlights.

but they all came out either overexposed or underexposed with the
300d...all 76 of them!

in fact..this one was my best:

http://www.pbase.com/image/23374967

and mostly very overexposed or underexposed like this one,
depending if I was focusing on the light or dark area....yes
focusing.

http://www.pbase.com/image/23374969

I never had any problem to take those lemurs with my C700uz 300$
point and shoot and my Dimage 7.

Can anyone post samples of pictures taken with a "PRO" camera that
the 300D could not take?

By the same token, if someone has Pictures that can defeat the ones
posted please do so.

Lets demonstrate with results where the 300D stands...

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

Thanks Daniella.

Were the light conditions low? What lens did you use?

do you think that this is a camera issue?

--
I have nothing to say I never have and I never will
-Johnny Rotten

vmartinez67

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

 

[Richard Manell]

I have to agree with Daniella on the metering. I've had my DReb now for about 2 months and although I love the camera, I think Canon needs an update to the metering system. It's awkward at best to obtain good consistant exposures.

I consistantly get under or over exposed images. I never had this problem with my Nikons with matrix metering. I think with a good metering system, the need for FEC would be rare.

I think this is a meetering issue. Because I was using central
focusing point..the meetering is linked to that and the camera
simply does not use evaluative meetering to take into consideration
other areas where I am not focusing. I should have done an
exposure lock on the neutral gray branches maybe? I have no idea
but all I know is that it is not a lens issue..it is the way the
stupid meetering works.

I coudl have used the 7 points focus and that might have helped not
sure. I will try that next time but it's a real bummer.

I don,t have the camera right now..it is at Canon for service for
shutter problem.

Thanks Daniella.

Were the light conditions low? What lens did you use?

do you think that this is a camera issue?

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

 

[Wm. Bates]

it was in matrix metering according to the exif data. It will bias towards the focus pont but will use all metering sites to average not just the focus area. A quick check of the hsitogram still would have avoided many problems.

I think this is a meetering issue. Because I was using central
focusing point..the meetering is linked to that and the camera
simply does not use evaluative meetering to take into consideration
other areas where I am not focusing. I should have done an
exposure lock on the neutral gray branches maybe? I have no idea
but all I know is that it is not a lens issue..it is the way the
stupid meetering works.

I coudl have used the 7 points focus and that might have helped not
sure. I will try that next time but it's a real bummer.

I don,t have the camera right now..it is at Canon for service for
shutter problem.

Thanks Daniella.

Were the light conditions low? What lens did you use?

do you think that this is a camera issue?

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

--
Bill
http://www.pbase.com/slowpokebill
'Sometime the magic works. Sometimes it doesn't'

 

[Daniella68313]

I agree 100%..and that's where the REAL evaluative meetering come in handy...

so is the 300d a pro tool? only in best conditions.

says you were in shutter priority so you set it at 1/3200, and
Compensated -1/3 stop....intentionally UNDEREXPOSED?!
What up with that?

As Daniella's other example also shows the same downward adjustment
of 1/3 stop I would guess that she perhaps uses this adjustment
routinely as a partial protection against burnt-out highlights
(better slightly underexposed than over).

Having said that, it would be pretty difficult to meter this
subject adequately in what looks like fairly bright sunlight, and
although I'm not automatically springing to the defence of the
camera, I think quite a few other cameras would yield similar
results with such an extreme example in rather harsh light. There
must be several (> 4-5?) stops difference between the black and the
white parts of the fur, and as with penguins, gulls, killer whales,
puffins etc. there is a compromise to be sought between losing
shadow detail and burning out highlights.

It's a difficult subject, and most cameras would struggle to a
degree. Whether the 300D is significantly worse than most I
couldn't say.

--
David Barker

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

 

[Daniella68313]

must be a bug at pbase.

jlo

says you were in shutter priority so you set it at 1/3200, and
Compensated -1/3 stop....intentionally UNDEREXPOSED?!
What up with that?

As Daniella's other example also shows the same downward adjustment
of 1/3 stop I would guess that she perhaps uses this adjustment
routinely as a partial protection against burnt-out highlights
(better slightly underexposed than over).

Having said that, it would be pretty difficult to meter this
subject adequately in what looks like fairly bright sunlight, and
although I'm not automatically springing to the defence of the
camera, I think quite a few other cameras would yield similar
results with such an extreme example in rather harsh light. There
must be several (> 4-5?) stops difference between the black and the
white parts of the fur, and as with penguins, gulls, killer whales,
puffins etc. there is a compromise to be sought between losing
shadow detail and burning out highlights.

It's a difficult subject, and most cameras would struggle to a
degree. Whether the 300D is significantly worse than most I
couldn't say.

--
David Barker

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

 

[Doug Walker]

Looking at these in Breeze Browser, the EXIF data for both shots shows she was in AV mode. The underexposed shot was 1/[email protected] while the mor properly exposed shot was 1/[email protected] both at ISO 400.

but they all came out either overexposed or underexposed with the
300d...all 76 of them!

in fact..this one was my best:

http://www.pbase.com/image/23374967

and mostly very overexposed or underexposed like this one,
depending if I was focusing on the light or dark area....yes
focusing.

http://www.pbase.com/image/23374969

I never had any problem to take those lemurs with my C700uz 300$
point and shoot and my Dimage 7.

Can anyone post samples of pictures taken with a "PRO" camera that
the 300D could not take?

By the same token, if someone has Pictures that can defeat the ones
posted please do so.

Lets demonstrate with results where the 300D stands...

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

Thanks Daniella.

Were the light conditions low? What lens did you use?

do you think that this is a camera issue?

--
I have nothing to say I never have and I never will
-Johnny Rotten

vmartinez67

--
Doug Walker
Check my profile for equipment list.

 

[Doug Walker]

download the photo and look at it in the Canon file browser...you
will see this:

File Name
IMG_4941.JPG
Camera Model Name
Canon EOS DIGITAL REBEL
Shooting Date/Time
2003-11-13 14:00:03
Shooting Mode
Aperture-Priority AE
Tv( Shutter Speed )
1/3200
Av( Aperture Value )
5.6
Metering Mode
Evaluative
Exposure Compensation
-1/3
ISO Speed
400
Lens
70.0 - 300.0 mm
Focal Length
300.0 mm
Image Size
3072x2048
Image Quality
Fine
Flash
Off
White Balance
Auto
AF Mode
AI Focus AF
Parameters
Contrast -1
Sharpness Normal
Color saturation +1
Color tone Normal
Color Space
sRGB
File Size
2276KB
Drive Mode
Continuous shooting
Owner's Name
Camera Body No.
0560008375

let me check that..somethign is very wrong here.

I did use exposure compensation at some point to try to avoid blown
out highlights.

but they all came out either overexposed or underexposed with the
300d...all 76 of them!

in fact..this one was my best:

http://www.pbase.com/image/23374967

and mostly very overexposed or underexposed like this one,
depending if I was focusing on the light or dark area....yes
focusing.

http://www.pbase.com/image/23374969

I never had any problem to take those lemurs with my C700uz 300$
point and shoot and my Dimage 7.

Can anyone post samples of pictures taken with a "PRO" camera that
the 300D could not take?

By the same token, if someone has Pictures that can defeat the ones
posted please do so.

Lets demonstrate with results where the 300D stands...

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

Thanks Daniella.

Were the light conditions low? What lens did you use?

do you think that this is a camera issue?

--
I have nothing to say I never have and I never will
-Johnny Rotten

vmartinez67

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

--
Doug Walker
Check my profile for equipment list.

 

[Mats Neander]

but they all came out either overexposed or underexposed with the
300d...all 76 of them!

in fact..this one was my best:

http://www.pbase.com/image/23374967

and mostly very overexposed or underexposed like this one,
depending if I was focusing on the light or dark area....yes
focusing.

http://www.pbase.com/image/23374969

I never had any problem to take those lemurs with my C700uz 300$
point and shoot and my Dimage 7.

Can anyone post samples of pictures taken with a "PRO" camera that
the 300D could not take?

By the same token, if someone has Pictures that can defeat the ones
posted please do so.

Lets demonstrate with results where the 300D stands...

--
I am not an English native speaker!
http://www.pbase.com/zylen
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=26918

--
Mats N

EOS600/EOS300D/EF-S18-55/EF24-85/EF70-200.4L/EOSIX/KonicaAutoreflexTCwHexanon40mmF1,8/CanonetQL17/RicohFF1s

Hi Daniella!

Generally, with a high contrast subject the 300D will vary in exposure more wildly IF you have used a setting in where its evaluative light-metering is linked to the used AF-spot!!! (..which is all settings except for "M" manual)

(The manual should always be consulted, and in the case of the over/underexposure you almost said it yourself...)

In those settings the exposure system is set for the evaluative metering using a lot of separate metering sections, which also are linked to the used AF-sensor.
So, the camera simply "have to" give such exposure problems as you´ve shown.

IF you want more correct exposures you might set the metering mode on "M", where the camera will meter the whole image with ONE metering section covering the whole of the image BUT with gradually more emphasis towards the center.

This is possibly not very "sophisticated" but far more predictable, after some time of experience using this type of metering.

The pros have used this metering method (the center-weighted) since it came to existence about the early 1970´s, and it´s much better in that it can be used predicting (...knowing...) what the outcome will be.

Try this and learn when to set "over" or "under"-exposure if needed, then results will be more reliable.

By the way:
A dark subject or/and background = set a minus(-) compensation generally.
A light subject or/and background = set a plus (+) compensation generally.

After learaning the center weighted method, it´s time to master the partial metering function, which is to set exposure more pin-pointing for more important parts of the subject/viewfinder area, bearing in mind that´s what might result in too dark or too light images IF you have metered on darker or lighter subject parts compared to "average grey" or "18 % grey" which is what the camera always is calibrated to expose for correctly.

Since most "general" subjects do carry both light and dark tones, the center weighted method is the best to begin to master, then learn to adjust when image content is averaged more towards the darker or lighter tones, or when an important part of yhe image is ditto.

When you´ve learnt this, start to use the other settings but let your, now aquired, experience tell you if the camera might have "happened to" meter wrong, and compensate as is needed.

Hope this did somethimg good for you...
Try, and you´ll see what I´m talking ´bout.

Mats in Sweden