ISO and 60D

Didn't even notice - never felt the need to use it. If the shutter speed is getting a bit low with the aperture you want to use - bang the ISO up a bit - " ït ain't rocket surgery" ;-)
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Judge: ' This image may be better in black and white - perhaps even just black! '
 
I haven't written any of the advise below, I'll give a link to this advise:

"You may already know that digital noise degrades the overall quality of your images. With the 60D's Auto ISO option, the ISO can go very high in low light, and that will inevitably increase the incidence of digital noise. I recommend that you set a limit on the highest ISO sensitivity setting that's used with Auto ISO. I set the limit at ISO 800 on my 60D. There will be some noise at ISO 800, but it is manageable using a good noise reduction program during image editing or RAW image conversion. A side benefit using low ISO sensitivity settings is that more images will fit on the SD card because digital noise is detected as "detail" that cannot be compressed when storing images on the media card."

Canon EOS 60D tips:

http://wordsandphotos.org/WordsandPhotosB/Articles/Canon60DTips.html

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An excellent lens lasts a lifetime, an excellent DSLR, not so long.
 
I almost always use manual ISO in either AV to TV mode.

This is mostly because I want to control the aperture and shutter speed to get the effect I want most of the time, and I want to use the highest ISO possible to get the best image quality. Usually I'm picking the aperture and trading off shutter speed and ISO. Sometimes I want fast shutter speed and good DOF to freeze some action, so I pick the shutter speed and trade off aperture and ISO.

In my experience, high ISO is very useable if you use good noise reduction in post processing. Lightroom 3, Aperture, DxO and other 3rd party programs seem much better at noise reduction than Canon DPP or the in camera noise reduction.
 
When that book was written, it was written for film, a non-linear recording medium.
Now this statement is TOTALLY incorrect, at least the 3rd edition which I picked up when starting because of several posts here on this forum. I can’t even remember in the book where he taught using film as the medium. Furthermore I took his 8 week online class “Understanding Exposure” and not once did he reference film…..
I think it's in essence correct. The author learned his photography with film, internalised the prime importance of 'correct' exposure, and hasn't grasped that with digital it has no importance at all. People stuck in the film paradigm think control of exposure is primarily about adjusting the brightness of the output image, people who understand digital know that you never, ever do that. Controlling exposure is about controlling image noise, DOF and motion blur. Once you understand that a whole load of the mystique and bogus expertise surrounding exposure goes away, and so does the purpose of most auto modes - apart from Auto ISO, if it were properly done - in the way Canon can just never seem to grasp.
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Bob
 
Again thanks for all the good info on the ISO. It is good to see how different we all are in using our cameras, we all are after the same end results, a good photograph. I see there are many roads to take to get the photo we are after, thanks to all.

Bill
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/billse-300/

E510 with two lens kit, E-300 and battery grip, E1 and battery grip, 14-45mm, 40-150mm, 50mm macro, ex25, 14-54mm. Fl50 flash.
Canon 60D
 
I almost always use manual ISO in either AV to TV mode.

This is mostly because I want to control the aperture and shutter speed to get the effect I want most of the time,
which effects would those be? If you're using those modes you can't control DOF and motion blur at the same time.
and I want to use the highest ISO possible to get the best image quality.
I'm a bit mystified by this statement. High ISOs with Canons give lower read noise, but the effect in an auto mode of raising ISO will be to reduce exposure, which increases noise. Generally you should be trying to maximise exposure, and Neither Av nor Tv will do that.
Usually I'm picking the aperture and trading off shutter speed and ISO.
why is there a trade? Pick the aperture for DOF, pick the shutter speed you need for motion blur. Only then, if there's too little exposure for your noise requirements do you need to compromise one or the other.
Sometimes I want fast shutter speed and good DOF to freeze some action, so I pick the shutter speed and trade off aperture and ISO.
You are not trading anything - you can't trade exposure against 'ISO' which is an abstraction, a nothing at all. All choosing an ISO does is choose a target exposure, so all you're saying is that you're changing your exposure choice.

--
Bob
 
I always set mine manually. I use the lowest ISO that will give me the ap/shutter combo I need for the shot.
 
and...When I'm shooting video, I always use Manual Mode with Auto ISO...

It works great... :)

Regards,

Russ
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Greater is He that is within me, than he who is in this world...
 
Almsot always (except while using flash).
 
I don't use auto ISO because there is no way to compensate the exposure in that mode. If you're happy with default metering there's no reason not to use auto ISO.
You can use HTP to get around that.
I must admit I never thought of that, but 0 or 1 step under is too limited a range of choices for me.
In fact, HTP should be default at high ISOs, because it makes the RAW files smaller and gives an extra stop of highlights as free lunch (no noise increase of any significance).
Interesting. I've not heard anyone else say that (HTP should be default at high ISO). Would you say more about your thinking on this?
The thing is not to forget that HTP is enabled when you go to shoot high-DR scenes with deep or extensive shadows at low ISO, if you plan to make those shadows visible.
Well I always want that choice in PP, hence ETTR rather than HTP, but I'd like to understand where you're coming from.
 
I always use M mode....just have a min shutter speed in mind (that varies what your shooting). Pick the right aperture (for sharpness and dof purposes) and use the lowest ISO possible. simple!
 
Doesn't Auto ISO in M mode do exactly same thing? Though u can't use EC with auto ISO.
I always use M mode....just have a min shutter speed in mind (that varies what your shooting). Pick the right aperture (for sharpness and dof purposes) and use the lowest ISO possible . simple!
 
I haven't written any of the advise below, I'll give a link to this advise:
It's not great advice, I'm afraid.
"You may already know that digital noise degrades the overall quality of your images. With the 60D's Auto ISO option, the ISO can go very high in low light, and that will inevitably increase the incidence of digital noise.
Bad advice, wrong chain of causation - it is not the high ISO that causes noise, it is low exposure. Raising the ISO makes the most o.f the exposure that you have
I recommend that you set a limit on the highest ISO sensitivity setting that's used with Auto ISO. I set the limit at ISO 800 on my 60D. There will be some noise at ISO 800, but it is manageable using a good noise reduction program during image editing or RAW image conversion.
What you gain on the roundabouts, you lose on the swings. If you limit the ISO and you're working on full aperture, you'll extend the shutter speed - and noise is much more easily fixed than camera shake, IME.
A side benefit using low ISO sensitivity settings is that more images will fit on the SD card because digital noise is detected as "detail" that cannot be compressed when storing images on the media card."
And the problem is you're going to lose more through camera shake or insufficient depth of field. Low light is low light and its effects are inevitable. Auto ISO doesn't make it better or worse, but it can provide a mechanism for keeping tighter control over exposure, though unfortunately, not with Canon's implementation.

--
Bob
 
You may already know that digital noise degrades the overall quality of your images. With the 60D's Auto ISO option, the ISO can go very high in low light, and that will inevitably increase the incidence of digital noise. I recommend that you set a limit on the highest ISO sensitivity setting that's used with Auto ISO. I set the limit at ISO 800 on my 60D.
that just means you get severely underexposed image in M, or severely blurred image in Av.
 
I’m learning a great deal from this thread. Thank You for that!

This week I’m traveling to NYC and intend to take “Street People Pictures”. Not too concerned with any sharp DOF so I’ll use a lower Aperture, f4 to f5.6. I will need to freeze subjects so I’m thinking a SS over 120. In this situation with the changing light of every shot would you guy’s recommend Auto ISO with maybe a 6400 top to it?
60D with 70-200 f4
Thanks
Mark
 
I don't use auto ISO because there is no way to compensate the exposure in that mode. If you're happy with default metering there's no reason not to use auto ISO.
You can use HTP to get around that.
I must admit I never thought of that, but 0 or 1 step under is too limited a range of choices for me.
If you're shooting RAW, and perfecting the tone curve in a converter, apparent (embedded JPEG) exposure is irrelevant at high ISOs; only absolute sensor exposure affects noise in any significant way. Even JPEG allows small adjustments to the tone curve.
In fact, HTP should be default at high ISOs, because it makes the RAW files smaller and gives an extra stop of highlights as free lunch (no noise increase of any significance).
Interesting. I've not heard anyone else say that (HTP should be default at high ISO). Would you say more about your thinking on this?
The advantage of analog gain decreases as you climb the ISO scale with Canon DSLRs (it has almost no value at all on many other manufacturers' sensors). At a certain point, it pays to just move middle gray down to a lower RAW value, as this reduces the number of useless, incompressible noisy bits, and leaves more room for highlights. You get more highlights if you need them, and smaller files if you don't use them extensively across the frame.
The thing is not to forget that HTP is enabled when you go to shoot high-DR scenes with deep or extensive shadows at low ISO, if you plan to make those shadows visible.
Well I always want that choice in PP, hence ETTR rather than HTP, but I'd like to understand where you're coming from.
You have to know your risks to gamble intelligently.

if you have all the time in the world to take your shot, then you don't have to gamble at all; just take a few exposure, centering around the beginning of the "blinkies".

--
John

 
I’m learning a great deal from this thread. Thank You for that!

This week I’m traveling to NYC and intend to take “Street People Pictures”. Not too concerned with any sharp DOF so I’ll use a lower Aperture, f4 to f5.6. I will need to freeze subjects so I’m thinking a SS over 120. In this situation with the changing light of every shot would you guy’s recommend Auto ISO with maybe a 6400 top to it?
60D with 70-200 f4
Thanks
Mark
Try to get the biggest exposure you can, set the aperture wide open and let the AF do its job. set the shutter speed as long as you can, how long depends on how steady your hands are, how long the lens is, whether you've got IS and whether you think you can accept motion blurred cars, legs and arms (and they can add to a picture).

Then just let the Auto ISO do its job without constraints, whatever you do you're noyt going to get a bigger exposure than with the lens wide open and with the maximum motion blur you can tolerate. Where you might want to set a limit is the other end (not sure Canon auto ISO will do this) where you'd want it to reduce shutter speed if the exposure got too much at 100 ISO, to avoid blown highlights.

One of the problems is that the film base auto modes we have are the wrong ones for digital. Instead of 'Tv' what we really need is motion blur priority, which adjusts the shutter speed according to the shake (measurable from the camera accelerometers) the lens (focal length and whether it has IS) and subject movement (measurable from the LV feed or the AF system) and distance. Then you could dial oin the motion blur you wanted to allow and it would set the shutter accordingly, changing as you zoomed.
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Bob
 
Try to get the biggest exposure you can,
OK, not sure I’ve ever heard that expression. Please explain?
Where you might want to set a limit is the other end (not sure Canon auto ISO will do this) where you'd want it to reduce shutter speed if the exposure got too much at 100 ISO, to avoid blown highlights.
Bob
Again, please have patience here with a newbie, can you expand on that?

Using a 70-200 f4 w/IS.

Here are some shots from last Saturday on my practice walk around Asheville where I live. Used AV for the first time, I’ve been shooting Manual since I started and will return to it for NY.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/retsurfer/sets/72157626729792564/
Mark
 
Try to get the biggest exposure you can,
OK, not sure I’ve ever heard that expression. Please explain?
Ok - exposure measures the amount of light per unit area that the sensor (or film) collects. It is measured, properly, in lux seconds. The more lux seconds the bigger the exposure. In practice, it simply means get as much light into the image that you can. For a fixed scene brightness, that means as long a shutter speed and as large an aperture as you can. Shutter speed is likely to be limited by reducing or eliminating motion blur. The aperture will be limited either by your DOF requirement, the maximum aperture of the lens, or a desire to use the lens at its 'best' aperture. So far as noise goes, you always want the most light in the image, how important to you in relation to camera shake or lens resolution or DOF only you can judge.
Where you might want to set a limit is the other end (not sure Canon auto ISO will do this) where you'd want it to reduce shutter speed if the exposure got too much at 100 ISO, to avoid blown highlights.
Bob
Again, please have patience here with a newbie, can you expand on that?
A digital sensor just count photons, so whatever exposure it has it will count them, and you can process the output to get the range of output tones that you want. The exception is when it reaches its maximum count at base ISO. If the light levels in the image are higher than that, you will lose the highlights in the image irrecoverably. So, if you hit that problem, it is the one case that you need to reduce exposure, either by closing down the aperture or reducing the shutter speed (usually the latter, since it leaves the picture looking the same, assuming it was short enough to freeze motion blur in the first place)
Using a 70-200 f4 w/IS.

Here are some shots from last Saturday on my practice walk around Asheville where I live. Used AV for the first time, I’ve been shooting Manual since I started and will return to it for NY.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/retsurfer/sets/72157626729792564/
I wish I had your eye for the grab shot - some nice pictures there. Now, the problem you have with using auto ISO is that Canon just doesn't get it. As I said, what you'd like to be able to do is set the slowest shutter speed and largest aperture you can, and just have the camera set the ISO for you, except when you hit base ISO, when you want the camera to reduce exposure via the shutter speed and/or aperture. Unfortunately, you can't set Canon's auto ISO up like that (you can, I understand, with Nikon, although it's not exactly intuitive, it means the right combination of auto ISO limits and auto exposure mode).

So, back to your specific case. I can't see with this kind of work and a lens as good as yours, any reason to use anything other than f/4. The exposure time assuming IS gives 2 stops, could be 1/60 to cover all focal lengths on the zoom (if you were really cute, you'd want to change shutter speed as you zoom). Now as a rough estimate using the 'sunny 16' rule, in most normal daylight illumination, you will risk blowing the highlights at 100 ISO, so in that situation, you'd want to reduce the shutter speed.

The best compromise might be to stick to Av, f/4 at 100ISO, as soon as you see the shutter speed drop below 1/60 swap to M, f/4, 1/60, auto ISO. If the ISO goes back down to 100, swap to Av again. On my canons, as I remember, M mode retains settings between uses, so you can set the f/4, 1/60 in advance, and just change mode. You have to go into a menu to select auto ISO, though.

Canon manages to catch you allways. Another way of working would be Av, with the rear wheel assigned to ISO - then when the shutter speed goes down to your limit, you just boost the ISO to keep it there. So far as I know, youi can't do that, either.

Maybe someone with more familiarity with the 60D's auto ISO can suggest something better, or even more helpfully, point out that I'm wrong about the 60D's limitations..
--
Bob
 
I always use M mode....just have a min shutter speed in mind (that varies what your shooting). Pick the right aperture (for sharpness and dof purposes) and use the lowest ISO possible. simple!
The lowest ISO possible is always 100. The highest ISO that doesn't clip any desired highlights will give you the least noise. High ISOs do not create more noise; they create the same or less, with most cameras. High ISO images are generally noisier only because they have less exposure, not because the camera adds more noise! If you are shooting in "M" mode, you are choosing the real exposure, the ISO isn't doing it.

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John

 

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