Is Windows 10 faster with more memory even if much is unused?

[Simon97]

I'm helping someone with a computer issue. They are complaining about a slow performing computer. It has 4GB of ram and a little less than half is free. Hard drive is mostly empty. I did some basic checks such as a virus scan and it seems okay.

I wonder if there is any significant benefit to increasing the memory? User is not in a position to upgrade to a new machine at this point.

 

[supersargas]

I visited my parents yesterday and got a better look at the machine:

• Windows 10 64bit
• Intel Celeron 2.7Ghz (2 cores)
• HDD 250 GB (37% full)
• Memory 4MB about 2GB was in use at the time

I cleaned it up and uninstalled some unused junk on it, then rebooted. It seems okay to me, maybe slightly laggy.

My own computer is an I3 3.3Ghz, 8GB, Win7 64 from 2012 and it is very responsive. My main complaint with it is the slow rendering of H.265 video files (expected). I'm due for a new machine but I have shut down expenditures until I can see how business deals with the current situation going on now.

i would bet its a celeron e3500. if it doesnt get fast enough with maintenance, you could try using windows 7 or linux.

 

[cnyphotoguy]

i would bet its a celeron e3500. if it doesnt get fast enough with maintenance, you could try using windows 7 or linux.

Recommending usage of an unsupported, insecure OS is in no one's best interest. Stop using Windows 7.

 

[cnyphotoguy]

• Windows 10 64bit
• Intel Celeron 2.7Ghz (2 cores)
• HDD 250 GB (37% full)
• Memory 4MB about 2GB was in use at the time

You may have well done all you can do for them with those specs. Spinning hard drives like that 250gb even at 7200rpm are sluggish. Potentially offsetting that with an SSD or NVME drive will only further expose the limited multi-tasking of the Celeron family of processors.

This machine should be replaced when the sluggishness can no longer be tolerated.

 

[supersargas]

i would bet its a celeron e3500. if it doesnt get fast enough with maintenance, you could try using windows 7 or linux.

Recommending usage of an unsupported, insecure OS is in no one's best interest. Stop using Windows 7.

its that or having to learn a completely new system. besides, if the users in question are not clicking on every download button they see, they are going to be fine. such a computer wont be used for much more than mails and general internet browsing.

 

[John Sheehy]

Unless I missed it, seems like no one is talking about the caching Windows will do with unused RAM. The caching schemes are effective and can, among other benefits, reduce app load times significantly, even if your system disk is an SSD (assumes a prior launch).

You get even more info by putting your mouse over the "Memory composition" strip above the area that you cropped. There are two types of "Available" memory, which can be shown towards the right, with no shading in their rectangles. One is "Standby", which is stuff like file cache, and to the right of it, is "Free". If "free" never disappears during operation, then one has enough RAM such that more would not improve performance. Even if you have "Free" RAM, though, it may be from an app recently closing and freeing stuff that isn't file cache, and some memory allocations of some code may still be in the pagefile, until it is called into action again, and uses RAM.

--
John

http://www.pbase.com/image/55384958.jpg

 

[Ho72]

This machine should be replaced when the sluggishness can no longer be tolerated.

Sluggishness is a relative thing. I still use a 3770K based system from 2012 as my workstation. I know that newer machines are faster, but I've never used one so my computer still seems fast enough to me.

 

[Austinian]

i would bet its a celeron e3500. if it doesnt get fast enough with maintenance, you could try using windows 7 or linux.

Recommending usage of an unsupported, insecure OS is in no one's best interest. Stop using Windows 7.

its that or having to learn a completely new system.

I've had to do that several times over the years; it's no big deal, and many things haven't changed. Classic Shell and similar programs can ease the transition.

besides, if the users in question are not clicking on every download button they see, they are going to be fine. such a computer wont be used for much more than mails and general internet browsing.

Not necessarily. There's a reason to keep up with updates and patches. Vulnerabilities like WannaCry don't require user error to wreak havoc.

"In May 2017, around a quarter of a million computers around the world running Microsoft Windows were attacked and infected with malware that would later be named "WannaCry." Victims found their computers locked and unusable, but could free them if the victims transferred Bitcoin—typically an amount equivalent to $300-600 USD—to the people behind the attack.

It turned out, the attack could have been avoided if people had applied a software update Microsoft had issued just weeks before the attack. The update fixed the vulnerability that the attackers had exploited, but many chose to delay implementing it."

Why people delay software updates, despite the risks

In May 2017, around a quarter of a million computers around the world running Microsoft Windows were attacked and infected with malware that would later be named "WannaCry." Victims found their computers locked and unusable, but could free them if the victims transferred Bitcoin—typically an...

techxplore.com

 

[CAcreeks]

This machine should be replaced when the sluggishness can no longer be tolerated.

Sluggishness is a relative thing. I still use a 3770K based system from 2012 as my workstation. I know that newer machines are faster, but I've never used one so my computer still seems fast enough to me.

That CPU benchmarks at 6596 Passmark, which is almost as good as the 9th generation i3 processors on currently sold systems. No wonder it doesn't feel sluggish!

I'm using a Macbook with old i7 CPU and GT 750 GPU. Hard to tell what the CPU is, because Apple doesn't want to show any user-unfriendly information in the System Info window. Also they don't want you to know their parts are back-rev. Anyhow, the system is very responsive, in no small part because OS X is better tuned to the hardware than Windows usually is.

The GT 750 does not support UHD monitors over HDMI, though. :-(

 

[Sean Nelson]

You get even more info by putting your mouse over the "Memory composition" strip above the area that you cropped.

I like the comment displayed for "In Use" memory:

In use (compressed) 2MB
Compressed memory stores an estimated 6MB of data, saving the system 4MB of memory

A whole 4 MB - whoo hoo!!!

 

[Archer66]

such a computer wont be used for much more than mails and general internet browsing.

What you think is the top source for malware ?

 

[cnyphotoguy]

This machine should be replaced when the sluggishness can no longer be tolerated.

Sluggishness is a relative thing.

Agreed, but since this whole post was due to the OP looking for input on a slow machine the time maybe upon the users.

 

[Ken60]

I have read bits of this thread and noticed that there is no mention of what the owner is trying to do with this PC .

Yes Microsoft says that the MINIMUM required by Win 10 64 is 4 gig of ram and that Windows will use 2 gigs to run, but that leaves a rather small pool. Did anyone note the lack of mention about graphics ? If this is an historic budget build there could be " on board graphics" which uses system resources for ram.

I just rebuilt a PC having owned a Q6600 Quad core for years. If you get to 8 gigs of ram and use multiple hard drives, you can run most software in a doable fashion. The multiple hard drives works because windows will be scratch disking , so will software like photoshop and the poor little heads on one platter sandwich get thrashed trying to serve all masters.

If I were trying to sort out this machine, I would FIRST check the software the user has, check the resources usage for graphics etc, and talk to the user. Ask the user why it is slow to them , what takes the longest and then what is their budget to make it better.

If the answer to the budget is £100 then , graphics, ram and HDD are going to be fun to solve..... but 8 gigs will aid not just windows but the programs that are looking for RAM when Win 10 has stolen its share. ... If the answer is several hundred you might find an inexpensive MB ram and chip going from someone that is going i9 or Rizen.

Gear ... what I need to get the job done , after all you don't see mechanics listing their brand of spanner as a qualification .

 

[supersargas]

such a computer wont be used for much more than mails and general internet browsing.

What you think is the top source for malware ?

the user.

 

[Austinian]

such a computer wont be used for much more than mails and general internet browsing.

What you think is the top source for malware ?

the user.

"The recipe for a malware infection calls for a long list of ingredients. Topmost are the two most common ways that malware accesses your system—the Internet and email."

What is Malware? Malware Definition, Types and Protection

All you need to know about malware. What it is, where it comes from, and how to protect against it. Learn actionable tips to defend yourself from malware.

www.malwarebytes.com

 

[calson]

If they have 32-bit Windows 10 Home version then the most the operating system can use is 3.5GB so adding more memory does nothing. With the Mac OS the extra RAM was usable as a RAM scratch disk. But then the Apple operating system is a modern one and so has more capabilities and performs better than the Windows versions which are based on 1995 NT 3.51.

By that logic, Mac is an ancient system because it is based on the Mach and BSD Kernels which were started in 1983 and 1977.

The difference is that Mac OS X was based on NEXT that was created using the concepts of UNIX but not simply copying over the code. With Windows the code was taken as is from NT3.51 which in turn was hobbled in order to get around the key patents of IBM for OS/2. OS/2 had a communications module that protected the kernel while allowing multitasking.

Microsoft made a conscious decision to allow devices to directly access the kernel and that is what led to the Blue Screen of Death. I can plug a card reader or thumb drive into a USB port on a Windows computer and prevent it from booting or cause the BSOD to appear.

Microsoft created an architecture with multiple DLL's that can be at different version levels and reside in different directories and get called in a nearly random fashion depending on where the last installed application was coded to put a new DLL. There are the problems inherent to the Registry that provides a central location on every Windows computer and makes it incredibly easy to hack the machine and leave behind Trojans inside it to be activated on the next boot of the computer.

And then we have Framework that created its own problems and it is no fully supported but application developers are still using it. Add in the Visual Basic IDE with its bloatware and the macros that also greatly helped hackers.

With our Windows computers there are nearly daily patches and patches to patches but with the Mac OS the updates come once every 6-12 months. 99.9 percent of the time I spend fixing computer problems are with the Windows machines. 100% of the time and money spent on registry cleaners, spyware detection, anti-virus checks, and firewall maintenance is for the Windows computers.

I have worked with the operating systems sold by Microsoft since DOS 1.0 and every version of Windows and the Apple operating systems going back to 1977. The difference between the two companies is that Apple will produce a greatly improved operating system even if it means users will need to buy a new Apple computer to run it.

Microsoft wants to protect its Office monopoly and its near Wintel monopoly by making each new version of Windows able to run (although very slowly) on older computers and with older applications code. So it add UI layers and security layers on top of a poorly designed OS architecture.

I often see some aspect of Mac OS X that reminds me of mainframe operating system architecture and how control is decentralized for security and the use of priviledges to keep a novice from being vulnerable. I only see that with Microsoft with their Exchange server applications. Small wonder that for years Microsoft used Linux on its corporate email servers.

 

[Austinian]

If they have 32-bit Windows 10 Home version then the most the operating system can use is 3.5GB so adding more memory does nothing. With the Mac OS the extra RAM was usable as a RAM scratch disk. But then the Apple operating system is a modern one and so has more capabilities and performs better than the Windows versions which are based on 1995 NT 3.51.

By that logic, Mac is an ancient system because it is based on the Mach and BSD Kernels which were started in 1983 and 1977.

The difference is that Mac OS X was based on NEXT that was created using the concepts of UNIX but not simply copying over the code. With Windows the code was taken as is from NT3.51 which in turn was hobbled in order to get around the key patents of IBM for OS/2. OS/2 had a communications module that protected the kernel while allowing multitasking.

"For several months, I dual-booted both OS/2 Warp and a late beta of Windows 95 on the same computer: a 486 with 16MB of RAM. After extensive testing, I was forced to conclude that Windows 95, even in beta form, was faster and smoother. It also had better native applications and (this was the real kicker) crashed less often.

How could this be? OS/2 Warp was now a fully 32-bit operating system with memory protection and preemptive multitasking, whereas Windows 95 was still a horrible mutant hybrid of 16-bit Windows with 32-bit code. By all rights, OS/2 shouldn’t have crashed—ever. And yet it did. All the time.

Why OS/2 got SIQ

Unfortunately, OS/2 had a crucial flaw in its design: a Synchronous Input Queue (SIQ). What this meant was that all messages to the GUI window server went through a single tollbooth. If any OS/2 native GUI app ever stopped servicing its window messages, the entire GUI would get stuck and the system froze."

https://arstechnica.com/information...rating-system-the-triumph-and-tragedy-of-os2/

I often see some aspect of Mac OS X that reminds me of mainframe operating system architecture and how control is decentralized for security and the use of priviledges to keep a novice from being vulnerable.

"“Macs don’t get viruses,” or so the long-time saying goes. But according to Malwarebytes’ annual State of Malware report, that’s far from true. In fact, there was almost double the number of threats targeting Macs compared to Windows PCs in 2019.

The report states that Macs saw an average of 11 threats per endpoint in 2019, whereas Windows systems had an average of 5.8 threats—the first time Macs outpaced PCs when it comes to malware threats."

https://www.techspot.com/news/83984-macs-saw-almost-double-number-malware-threats-than.html

 

[supersargas]

1. Austinian wrote:

such a computer wont be used for much more than mails and general internet browsing.

What you think is the top source for malware ?

the user.

"The recipe for a malware infection calls for a long list of ingredients. Topmost are the two most common ways that malware accesses your system—the Internet and email."

https://www.malwarebytes.com/malware/

connecting to the internet or using your email will not spawn viruses in your computer. viruses are commonly disguised as download pop ups or as links inside an email, both downloading an executable file that activates the virus.

by the way, getting information about the dangers of the internet from a company website that depends on that danger to make money is not a good idea.

 

[supersargas]

i would bet its a celeron e3500. if it doesnt get fast enough with maintenance, you could try using windows 7 or linux.

Recommending usage of an unsupported, insecure OS is in no one's best interest. Stop using Windows 7.

its that or having to learn a completely new system.

I've had to do that several times over the years; it's no big deal, and many things haven't changed. Classic Shell and similar programs can ease the transition.

the metro interface is not a completely new system. try using microsoft office, adobe photoshop and, dunno, a CAD program in linux. this is what i am talking about

besides, if the users in question are not clicking on every download button they see, they are going to be fine. such a computer wont be used for much more than mails and general internet browsing.

Not necessarily. There's a reason to keep up with updates and patches. Vulnerabilities like WannaCry don't require user error to wreak havoc.

"In May 2017, around a quarter of a million computers around the world running Microsoft Windows were attacked and infected with malware that would later be named "WannaCry." Victims found their computers locked and unusable, but could free them if the victims transferred Bitcoin—typically an amount equivalent to $300-600 USD—to the people behind the attack.

It turned out, the attack could have been avoided if people had applied a software update Microsoft had issued just weeks before the attack. The update fixed the vulnerability that the attackers had exploited, but many chose to delay implementing it."

https://techxplore.com/news/2020-03-people-software.html

it could also be avoided by not executing the package that contained the virus, which is entirely the user's fault.

and such package is successfully distributed when the user fails to check the remittent of a mail and then clicks on a link or whether or not they actually have flash player installed.

 

[Austinian]

1. Austinian wrote:

such a computer wont be used for much more than mails and general internet browsing.

What you think is the top source for malware ?

the user.

"The recipe for a malware infection calls for a long list of ingredients. Topmost are the two most common ways that malware accesses your system—the Internet and email."

https://www.malwarebytes.com/malware/

connecting to the internet or using your email will not spawn viruses in your computer. viruses are commonly disguised as download pop ups or as links inside an email, both downloading an executable file that activates the virus.

by the way, getting information about the dangers of the internet from a company website that depends on that danger to make money is not a good idea.

Complacency about unpatched vulnerabilities is a worse idea.

 

[cnyphotoguy]

1. Austinian wrote:

such a computer wont be used for much more than mails and general internet browsing.

What you think is the top source for malware ?

the user.

"The recipe for a malware infection calls for a long list of ingredients. Topmost are the two most common ways that malware accesses your system—the Internet and email."

https://www.malwarebytes.com/malware/

connecting to the internet or using your email will not spawn viruses in your computer. viruses are commonly disguised as download pop ups or as links inside an email, both downloading an executable file that activates the virus.

by the way, getting information about the dangers of the internet from a company website that depends on that danger to make money is not a good idea.

Yes, it is 100% possible and a well known method of being infected by just browsing the internet....no user action needed.

https://www.tomsguide.com/us/driveby-download,news-18329.html