Is it pointless to try to build a super strong PC...

[PAntunes]

For me, at the end of the day you have two options.
1) get the mac and be done with it.
2) learn what parts you need, what works together, what the differences are between a long list of components, what workflows work and the problems you may have (converting to other formats takes time and space).
The idea of upgrading a PC is great. But the reality is that quite often you'll want a new processor, a new motherboard, new memory, larger disk, and a graphics card. The only thing you're not upgrading is the power supply and the box.
It's not totally pointless, but you'll have to enjoy that process as well.

as if you can't just buy pre-built pcs or use a company that assembles it for you then ships it.

You still need to know what components you need to get what you want out of it. Putting it together isn't the hard part. Knowing what you want to put together is.

it's not hard to learn this at all but even if you don't want to, there are tons of custom pc build it for you companies out there. so unless you think using a drop down menu is too hard, idk what to tell you. it's the same when buying a mac lol

Let's go for the basics.
Should I go for a AMD or a Nvidia card?
That alone gives me over 20 options on series... That's not even specific cards, but just the series... Do all work? Do I want one brand over the other? Do I want one specific series? Do I need the most expensive one for video?

Using a drop down menu is easy, but knowing what to select isn't that simple.

 

[Chris Wolfgram]

Well, I actually have 3 hard drives, including this one, that I use for my operating system, Photo programs, and temporary photo storage

A lot of people (including myself) would prefer a straight SSD for the OS, programs, as well as Lightroom Library, etc., because that makes the overall system snappier.

Oh I would definitely "prefer it".... Its just a matter of cost for me. If I could afford it, I'd get about 20 TB of solid SSD and call, it a day I know SSD is FAR superior to the old spinning disc memory....

 

[Wing2]

higheronymous,

What kind of video card do you have that supports 8K on timeline?

I know the Nvidia GeForce RTX 3090 does as I'm using it brothers rig for that. Not sure if the other lower end RTX 3XXX series cards do. 3080 TI might

I am using a 3080 ti, and can confirm it is usable for 8K timeline without using proxy. (of course, if you add a lot of effects, need to either render the scene or use proxies for perfectly smooth playback)

8K monitor is expensive, but 8K TVs are getting relatively affordable.

Actually, I also have a 2080 on an 8 PCIE slot next to the 3080 ti. However, the 2080 can only help to speed up during rendering , transcoding and encoding.

 

[Markr041]

For me, at the end of the day you have two options.
1) get the mac and be done with it.
2) learn what parts you need, what works together, what the differences are between a long list of components, what workflows work and the problems you may have (converting to other formats takes time and space).
The idea of upgrading a PC is great. But the reality is that quite often you'll want a new processor, a new motherboard, new memory, larger disk, and a graphics card. The only thing you're not upgrading is the power supply and the box.
It's not totally pointless, but you'll have to enjoy that process as well.

Actually, given the needs of powerful graphics cards, it is likely the power supply would have to be upgraded too.

Getting the (m1 Pro or Max) Mac is the obvious solution if one needs to learn all about PC components' performance and pricing from scratch. And, after learning all that, it will likely make the Mac alternative look even better.

 

[Markr041]

"If you have a AMD 5950x 16 core or Intel 12900K cpu combo with a RTX3080, the M1 Max is not even close."

Hyperbole is not helpful. What exactly is the performance difference? What I have seen is 2X faster render in the worst-case scenario (favoring the PC) comparing a Mac m1 Max to the most specced out PC. That is something that could be interpreted as not even close, but render times may not be the most important performance metric. Smooth time-line playback may matter more, and on that they are similar.

And, with the MacBook Pro m1 Max you get a color-calibrated P3 gamut screen really capable of HDR (1000 nits sustained and 1600 nits peak), with local dimming (so, great blacks). Getting a monitor that replicates those specs costs more than the PC. And, no, I am not saying the screen is perfect.

Importantly, to edit in HDR while viewing in real time HDR, the PC equipment you listed is not enough (even leaving aside the HDR monitor). On the MacBook Pro m1 Max you can view and edit in HDR as is. As for rendering - for example, no hyperbole: you can render an 8K HDR HEVC 10bit video from the R5 8K 12bit RAW clips at half speed (a 20 minute video takes 40 minutes). And you can edit the 8K RAW clips with no need for proxies on the timeline with no dropped frames while viewing the clips in actual HDR.

 

[Wing2]

For me, at the end of the day you have two options.
1) get the mac and be done with it.
2) learn what parts you need, what works together, what the differences are between a long list of components, what workflows work and the problems you may have (converting to other formats takes time and space).
The idea of upgrading a PC is great. But the reality is that quite often you'll want a new processor, a new motherboard, new memory, larger disk, and a graphics card. The only thing you're not upgrading is the power supply and the box.
It's not totally pointless, but you'll have to enjoy that process as well.

as if you can't just buy pre-built pcs or use a company that assembles it for you then ships it.

You still need to know what components you need to get what you want out of it. Putting it together isn't the hard part. Knowing what you want to put together is.

it's not hard to learn this at all but even if you don't want to, there are tons of custom pc build it for you companies out there. so unless you think using a drop down menu is too hard, idk what to tell you. it's the same when buying a mac lol

Let's go for the basics.
Should I go for a AMD or a Nvidia card?
That alone gives me over 20 options on series... That's not even specific cards, but just the series... Do all work? Do I want one brand over the other? Do I want one specific series? Do I need the most expensive one for video?
Using a drop down menu is easy, but knowing what to select isn't that simple.

Nothing is simple if you need top performance.

Go with Nvidia, there are quite a few applications out there that work a lot faster using Cuda or TensorRT (available only from Nvidia) than OpenCL (work for AMD, Nvidia and Intel)

 

[silentstorm]

"If you have a AMD 5950x 16 core or Intel 12900K cpu combo with a RTX3080, the M1 Max is not even close."

Hyperbole is not helpful. What exactly is the performance difference? What I have seen is 2X faster render in the worst-case scenario (favoring the PC) comparing a Mac m1 Max to the most specced out PC. That is something that could be interpreted as not even close, but render times may not be the most important performance metric. Smooth time-line playback may matter more, and on that they are similar.

And, with the MacBook Pro m1 Max you get a color-calibrated P3 gamut screen really capable of HDR (1000 nits sustained and 1600 nits peak), with local dimming (so, great blacks). Getting a monitor that replicates those specs costs more than the PC. And, no, I am not saying the screen is perfect.

Importantly, to edit in HDR while viewing in real time HDR, the PC equipment you listed is not enough (even leaving aside the HDR monitor). On the MacBook Pro m1 Max you can view and edit in HDR as is. As for rendering - for example, no hyperbole: you can render an 8K HDR HEVC 10bit video from the R5 8K 12bit RAW clips at half speed (a 20 minute video takes 40 minutes). And you can edit the 8K RAW clips with no need for proxies on the timeline with no dropped frames while viewing the clips in actual HDR.

Not denying the M1 Max is a great laptop. But it does have it's limits.

For stills and video, the multi cores performance matters more. Max has ~12600, AMD5950x has ~16900 and Intel 12900k has ~17500 score. If you move away from ProRes, say using only DNxHR or XAVC codecs, the transcoding process will show big gap.

Or try some 3D work on Blender (available on both x86 and M1 codes). The Max has 10.4TFLOPs and RTX3080 has 29.7TFLOPs FP32 score. Also with effects rendering on multi layer videos on the timeline will show just how much faster the RTX3080 really is.

What about virtualisation?

Whatever can be achieved on the Max can be achieved on a windows machine, BUT like I mentioned, comparing a desktop and a laptop is just wrong. People need to understand that the data crunching numbers don't lie. And they should buy the computers knowing what they are capable of. No hyperbole here either.

Having said that, I myself am looking to buy a Max laptop. So much of computing power and that just sips power is simply a dream come true! Wait till apple puts 2 or 4 Max into the imac at higher clock speed 3.8GHz and THAT, will again be another mind boggling moment! :-D

 

[stevvi]

For me, at the end of the day you have two options.
1) get the mac and be done with it.
2) learn what parts you need, what works together, what the differences are between a long list of components, what workflows work and the problems you may have (converting to other formats takes time and space).
The idea of upgrading a PC is great. But the reality is that quite often you'll want a new processor, a new motherboard, new memory, larger disk, and a graphics card. The only thing you're not upgrading is the power supply and the box.
It's not totally pointless, but you'll have to enjoy that process as well.

Actually, given the needs of powerful graphics cards, it is likely the power supply would have to be upgraded too.

Getting the (m1 Pro or Max) Mac is the obvious solution if one needs to learn all about PC components' performance and pricing from scratch. And, after learning all that, it will likely make the Mac alternative look even better.

I think you may have summed it up quite well. Get that expensive Mac if you don't want to, or can't be bothered to, learn about PC component basics as you know the Mac will do a good job anyway. This seems to be born out amongst my computer using friends.