Is 7d2 Game Changing? Does it get 10 fps?

[dgovoni]

Jemini,

I had this same issue when I first got the 1DX, but it has a lot to do with technique and the AF case settings you have. Over time I raised my hit rate to nearly 90%. Here are a few suggestions which should work for 7DMkII.

1. Use the AF point cluster where the main point is the center one with 4 assists. Occasionally, depending on backgrounds and back-lighting, you will need to go to center point with dot inside (highest precision). I never use a high AF point cluster number (such as all points) for BIFs.

2. AF case - Case I with AF tracking sensitivity minus(-) 1

If you handhold, this will drop your success rate at long focal lengths (obviously). I get the highest hit rate on a wimberley system (500mm with 1.4xTC).

You can see some of the results here on eagle shots with 1DX.There is an eagle shot where he's flying head-on

Loading…

www.flickr.com

I plan on doing the same settings on the 7DMKII.

I also own a 1DMKIV; It's AF system is good, but my hit rate is lower because you really need to only use the center point for BIF.

As I said, I've had to work on my technique, mostly in panning and keeping the AF point cluster on the bird. Shutter speed is the critical factor, too. I try to shoot 1/1600-1/2000 or higher (I also use Auto ISO with compensation). If the shutter approaches 1/1000 or lower, the image will begin to look soft in many cases and can be mistaken for AF performance (I tested this extensively and it's definitely camera shake even with IS because of long focal lengths).

HTH,

--dennis

 

[MAC]

12FPS with Continuous AF with tracking available - it only locks the Aperture

That's enough to render it useless - because if you need f/1.8 indoors to get the background out of focus or the required shutter speed you are out of luck, as much as you are out of luck stopping down to f/13 because you need the DOF...

- you can adjust exposure and ISO to set your shutter speed

Not really.

Plus the sensor is the leading one in this category.

That lead is non existant for higher ISO settings than ISO-200 - and overall it lost it's advantage due to the mirror taking 2/3rd of a stop away in the light path.

And given all these hypothetical advantages it still sucks at tracking because of the lack of a viewfinder image...

exactamundo - pros don't use electronic viewfinders nor sony's nor mirrorless for action photography

and

sony only has about six native lenses - all expensive...and the alternative is an adapter at $350

they are releasing a new iteration every six months - which will frustrate users

the sony will do some nice stills and have good IQ for stills, but none of the sports pros I know will use one for action/sports -

optical viewfinder and tracking - canon and nikon dominate sports and action

don't think body -- a body doesn't take a shot -- - think system

--
regards
Karl Günter Wünsch

1) A77 series are not mirrorless

ok

2) There are tones of native A mount lenses, from 8mm to 800mm. Some of this lenses are not available elsewhere.

and what is the quality and pricing of the 100-400 II + 1.4 III equivalent? Or the 70-200 f2.8II + 2xIII equivalent.

here is a shoot out summary

http://kleinoakbasketball.com/7D2_vs_A77ii/shootout.html

For sports - lenses and overall pricing - canon wins

af of canon wins

you need f2.8 for sports at max burst - sony's limitation

OVF for canon - for sports wins

--
Regards,
Juan

http://500px.com/endosphoto

 

[MAC]

what do you think?

I bought one and NO, it's not a game changer. Excellent camera, better than my 7d and the 70d but game changer? No.

for $4000, is there anything on the Planet that beats the 100-400 II + 7d2?

If you can't take good photos with your existing gear, you won't take good photos with the 7d2. The 7d2 will not make you a good photographer, it helps with its wonderful and complicated AF, the 10fps (I don't care if it's 9.5 or even 9fps)...

This is basically a Nikon D4 for a 1/3rd of the price. Great camera, but not a game changer.

More affordability and access for action photography

1/3 the price

and 3 times the users

that is game changing IMO

It's my opinion and I'll stick with it until I change my mind or Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fuji or Panasonic bribes me with free...!

--
Thanks
http://www.sritch.com
The Dogs of Vancouver, BC

 

[MAC]

Of course it gets 10 fps, and with fewer restrictions/qualifications then any other manufacturers' DSLR. Contrary to the ramblings of a certain forum member who can't seem to understand that the exposure meter takes more time in the dark.

Is it a 'game changer'? I'm not sure I would go that far. The 7D could handle most of the assignments a 7D2 can handle, and by extension so can a 70D. So this isn't the first sub-$2,000 DSLR which can confidently handle sports and wildlife.

the pros I know and work with will not step onto the field or an event without dual slots

Still, the 7D2 is a step above. Truly professional AF, more high ISO room, and arguably the best sealing seen on a DSLR to date (going by the LensRentals.com tear down). It deserves to stand next to the 1DX and D4s. I don't think any professional sports or wildlife shooter would hesitate to go on assignment with the 7D2.

I can understand why some would call that a 'game changer' given the $1,800 price tag.

 

[jeminijoseph]

Jemini,

I had this same issue when I first got the 1DX, but it has a lot to do with technique and the AF case settings you have. Over time I raised my hit rate to nearly 90%. Here are a few suggestions which should work for 7DMkII.

1. Use the AF point cluster where the main point is the center one with 4 assists. Occasionally, depending on backgrounds and back-lighting, you will need to go to center point with dot inside (highest precision). I never use a high AF point cluster number (such as all points) for BIFs.

2. AF case - Case I with AF tracking sensitivity minus(-) 1

I tried different settings. Now I use -2 for AF tracking and -2 for accel. I will try -1 for tracking.

If you handhold, this will drop your success rate at long focal lengths (obviously). I get the highest hit rate on a wimberley system (500mm with 1.4xTC).

It's possible the hand holding affect the hit rate. But I'm using 70-300L which is not the fastest lens.

You can see some of the results here on eagle shots with 1DX.There is an eagle shot where he's flying head-on

https://www.flickr.com/photos/dngovoni/

You have some nice shots there I'm very happy with my success rate with D4. I may have to try 300/2.8

I plan on doing the same settings on the 7DMKII.

I also own a 1DMKIV; It's AF system is good, but my hit rate is lower because you really need to only use the center point for BIF.

As I said, I've had to work on my technique, mostly in panning and keeping the AF point cluster on the bird. Shutter speed is the critical factor, too. I try to shoot 1/1600-1/2000 or higher (I also use Auto ISO with compensation). If the shutter approaches 1/1000 or lower, the image will begin to look soft in many cases and can be mistaken for AF performance (I tested this extensively and it's definitely camera shake even with IS because of long focal lengths).

HTH,

--dennis

 

[dgovoni]

Jemini,

I don't use DPP to process, but I would use it to check your AF point selected; this might give you a hint as to where it thinks focus is, but don't dismiss soft shots as AF issues. Could be shutter/camera shake.

dennis

 

[jeminijoseph]

Jemini,

I don't use DPP to process, but I would use it to check your AF point selected; this might give you a hint as to where it thinks focus is, but don't dismiss soft shots as AF issues. Could be shutter/camera shake.

dennis

Yep, that's what I was looking at..

 

[Thunder123]

that is really a poor attitude, I thought you had more knowledge to share

I have quite a lot more knowledge to share - more than you can for the 7DII about which this thread is about. The Sony performance has no relevance in this context and thus your whole trolling has no place here.

 

[MAC]

that is really a poor attitude, I thought you had more knowledge to share

I have quite a lot more knowledge to share - more than you can for the 7DII about which this thread is about. The Sony performance has no relevance in this context and thus your whole trolling has no place here.

 

[dhogaza]

jeminijoseph wrote:I was waiting for an opinion of a 1DX user. I have D4 and bought 7DII as second body. Anyhow after using it for a while it does't give me the confidence of D4. In theory both have same FPS and 7DII have enough buffer. But the issue is the success rate of the AF especially in a sequence or a quick snapshot of a bird flying by. In a sequence (bird flying towards you), I get fewer in focus shots. I assume 1Dx will have same or better success rate than D4. If u can give us your honest opinion we'd appreciate it.

Algorithmically and AF sensorwise the 7D2 should outdo the 1D4. Computationally, the 7D2 has a lot more horsepower than the 1D4.

However, the 1D bodies do operate at a higher voltage than the 7D2 or 5DIII or non-1D series bodies, so they don't drive the AF motors as fast. Canon suggests this difference is only really noticeable with the big superteles, but perhaps this would explain a difference with your 70-300 too? This would probably be most noticeable with subjects moving directly towards or away from the camera.

I'm finding the 7D2 + 100-400 II focuses very fast on flying birds, though I've done just a little testing thus far. The new zoom AFs amazingly fast.

 

[Karl Gnter Wnsch]

thanks for trying to play, myself and others show that you presented false facts

So now you accuse me of lying - suit yourself, you are a poor troll. When presented with irrefutable facts (like the 0.27 seconds blackout time of the toy Sony called the A77II) you start attacking your opposition. I suggest you refrain from insulting anybodies intelligence here and not post another ridiculous claim of Sony superiority - your toy banner doesn't fly here!

 

[MAC]

One famous forum member says it isn't and doesn't - but who shoots in the dark, in live view, with lenses off?

I shoot some sports and action with the optical viewfinder and Ss 1/500+

Dual slots are good when $ on the line

I believe the 7d2 with 100-400 II, with 1.4 III, with 70-200 f2.8 IS II, with 2x III, with Lexar cf 1066, with sandsk 95mb/sec (getting 5.6 fps after the 10fps when buffer is full) - I believe for the money and reach and resolution and speed that this setup could be a game changer and what I buy

what do you think?

If I could afford a 7D2 I would buy one.

I bought a 7D about 1 1/2 years ago and I think it's great. It replaced a Rebel T3i which I liked very much but which was utterly not capable of action or sport photography, which I like to do on occasion. The frame rate (8 fps) and the buffer depth of the 7D are miles away from those of the T3i which in fairness was not intended as a high performance camera.

But - the 7D2 still improves on those two things, contrary to the naysayers the sensor has been improved and it can handle high ISO shooting better. I have been quite impressed with many of the higher ISO shots I've seen posted. The full-buffer FPS rate is even amazing. IMO, among APS-C cameras, the 7D2 is easily the top of the stack for high performance shooting; for that matter the 7D is probably still in second place despite its age. Yes, there are mirrorless cameras that produce more FPS, but without as good AF and making you work with an EVF.

DPReview responded to that 'famous forum member' and his FPS results, and they clearly stated that while the FPS varied slightly under different shooting conditions, it was always very close to 10 FPS with the 7D2.

agree midwest!

There are a lot of people who I would not recommend this camera to, who don't need what it is designed for - high performance - but from your post I think it would be a very good choice for you. Learn to use the 7D2's sophisticated AF system and you will be very happy with the camera. Like I said, I'd buy one if I could.

I'm looking at selling some stuff to get to it...

Thanks for you post Midwest, always good to hear your thoughts!

 

[MAC]

12FPS with Continuous AF with tracking available - it only locks the Aperture - you can adjust exposure and ISO to set your shutter speed

It would appear that is the case according to owners of the camera, though I still think the aperture limitation makes it an 8 fps camera that can do 12 fps some of the time.

correct, the 3.5 aperture to get 12 fps is Achilles heal for many gyms - it gets an 8fps rating in my opinion because of this and the the Evf is a further issue for pro sports shooting

Plus the sensor is the leading one in this category.

The 7D2 looks about a stop better at high ISO in RAW.

 

[MAC]

JPEGs vs, RAW and not both should help the buffer too.

I'd like to see data on this.

for the 5d3, using jpg in the second slot slowed down the camera. raw in both slots was faster.

 

[MAC]

One famous forum member says it isn't and doesn't - but who shoots in the dark, in live view, with lenses off?

I shoot some sports and action with the optical viewfinder and Ss 1/500+

Dual slots are good when $ on the line

I believe the 7d2 with 100-400 II, with 1.4 III, with 70-200 f2.8 IS II, with 2x III, with Lexar cf 1066, with sandsk 95mb/sec (getting 5.6 fps after the 10fps when buffer is full) - I believe for the money and reach and resolution and speed that this setup could be a game changer and what I buy

what do you think?

Of course, I agree with you. One thing to consider:

I think that if you purchase both the 100-400 and tve 70-200, you don't need a teleconverter for the 70-200, right?

I'd research the performance of telecon's on the 100-400 before buying one. A 2x drops aperture too low to focus. Maybe, instead of two telecoms, put that money some day into a long fixed focal length lens. Or just buy the 1.4x, because 560mm is still amazing

good points

the only reason for a potential 2xiii ext would be if on some occasions I only took the 70-200 ii

 

[MAC]

what do you think?

I bought one and NO, it's not a game changer. Excellent camera, better than my 7d and the 70d but game changer? No.

If you can't take good photos with your existing gear, you won't take good photos with the 7d2. The 7d2 will not make you a good photographer, it helps with its wonderful and complicated AF, the 10fps (I don't care if it's 9.5 or even 9fps)...

This is basically a Nikon D4 for a 1/3rd of the price.

Doesn't that make it a game changer? Suddenly, lots of people who would never have considered buying a camera with pro-level AF can now get one. I'm not sure what a game-changer would be, if that isn't one.

agree

Great camera, but not a game changer.

It's my opinion and I'll stick with it until I change my mind or Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fuji or Panasonic bribes me with free...!

--
Thanks
http://www.sritch.com
The Dogs of Vancouver, BC

--
As the length of a thread approaches 150, the probability that someone will make the obvious "it's not the camera, it's the photographer" remark approaches 1.
Alastair
http://anorcross.smugmug.com
Equipment in profile

 

[MAC]

It allows me to shoot birds and sports with the "big boys". No way would I pay $6500 for the privilege. I will and did pay $1800 for the privilege. I even bought a "big boy" bird lens. :>) As far as 10 frames/sec. I don't know but for me it is wonderfully fast. Better than my 5dm3 by a long shot. No one says you can have only one camera. I suspect that $1800 is the bargain of the century for a lot of us.

agree, we'll have more than one camera

and the 7d2 comes into play as the game changer on the long end for action

One famous forum member says it isn't and doesn't - but who shoots in the dark, in live view, with lenses off?

I shoot some sports and action with the optical viewfinder and Ss 1/500+

Dual slots are good when $ on the line

I believe the 7d2 with 100-400 II, with 1.4 III, with 70-200 f2.8 IS II, with 2x III, with Lexar cf 1066, with sandsk 95mb/sec (getting 5.6 fps after the 10fps when buffer is full) - I believe for the money and reach and resolution and speed that this setup could be a game changer and what I buy

what do you think?

--
Fred

 

[MAC]

I'm finding the 7D2 + 100-400 II focuses very fast on flying birds, though I've done just a little testing thus far. The new zoom AFs amazingly fast.

This

 

[MAC]

what do you think?

For years, especially after getting my 40D, that it had a 6.5fps burst shot speed... that everyone, every reviewer, would 'test' the continuous shooting mode with a moving object... Gary even mentioned the train set he wanted to use for his firs encounter w/ the 7D2.

I think it's a clash of sport/event/action/wildlife photographers...who live and shoot w/ continuous burst all day/night ... and find value with everything that happens to get as many of those shots in those bursts to be in focus, in proper exposure, in satisfactory ISO levels.... as oppose to those who think shooting at a still subject is the same thing and it's a numbers game.

I dread to hear about the next thing they find misrepresented or disappointing with the Canon 7D Mark II. Anyone getting a cut off Lens Flare, perhaps? I heard Gary Fong was going to get a new card to test the buffer count...

his facebook said he intends tp test the d750 next. Another review to ignore...as he continues to promote sony

 

[MAC]

I've enjoyed the several threads on the 7DII frame rate debate. There seem to be three opinions, and I don't think any of them will budge.

1) Mr. Fong has not been able to achieve Canon's claimed 10 fps with his 7DII.

2) DP forum members have achieved 10 fps with their 7DIIs

3) Thunder123 points out the A77ii achieves 10+ fps.

If these threads go on until next Christmas, I bet we'll find the majority of owners' 7DIIs do come at least reasonably close to 10 fps, Mr. Fong will continue to demonstrate that his camera will not, and Thunder will continue the non-sequiturs, using the A77ii frame rate as bait for trolling. I think we've reached an equilibrium.

And I'll continue enjoying it

Merry Christmas, everyone

Happy New Year!