Intermediate astro setup for <$1.2k?

[bokemon]

Hello folks,

Is it feasible to get an "intermediate" level astro package (tracker + lens / telescope) for under approx $1.2K USD? I should state up-front that I am trying to be realistic about the time and $$$ I throw into this. For example, I live in an area with Bortle class 4 light pollution, as you can see on this attached map. I'm willing to drive approx 1 hr over the hills where the sky gets dark enough to make out the Milky Way by eye, but you can also clearly see the sky background illumination against the tree-line. Once I get to the spot, I'll probably only spend up to 2-3 hours there and take images of a few different things. Probably no images greater than 30min total integration time. I'll maybe do this a few times a year? Not sure, but I am not going to plan any trips to far-away locations. If I can get reasonable images from just being in a darker part of my neighborhood, that would be great.

Anyway, I expect to spend about $400 on a Star Adventurer tracker, unless there is another one that is "better" for just a little more. The lenses I already have are:

Nikon Z6 with FTZ adapter

Tamron 35mm F1.4. I can use this for "Landscape astro with Milky Way"

Sigma 105mm F2.8 Macro - used for more zoomed in things with tracking. I used this yesterday for the comet with 3s untracked exposures, and it worked ok, but I think I was already being limited by background lighting.

That leaves about $800 for a longer lens or telescope + accessories. Since I don't want to dedicate that much integration time to an individual image, something with a shorter focal length but larger aperture would be more useful. I was thinking something like:

Samyang 135mm F2

Sigma 180mm F2.8 macro (used)

Irix 150mm F2.8 macro

(Maybe some 200-300mm lens I haven't thought of)

I don't know much about telescopes, but I should point out that I already have a Sigma 60-600mm F6.3 lens, so the telescope should be "better" than that. I read that the Star Adventurer starts to not work well with focal lengths over 300-400mm.

Finally, yes, I have been trying to read up on all this stuff myself these last few days, but it usually turns out to be the case that the more I read about something, the more I find out about the little problems something has, and how these problems can always be solved by spending more money.




That little red pin is where I took comet pictures yesterday

 

[Andy Lucy]

The William Optics RedCat 51 APO 250mm f/4.9 v1.5 might meet your needs for a longer focal length scope.

Andy

 

[DavidWright2010]

You might want to consider the Fornax LighTrak II. Here's a review which compares it to other systems. You can do a lot with that and the Rokinon/Samyang 135 mm f/2.

The reviewer mentions the hassle with using house power for the LighTrak. I use a small rechargable battery pack (about $20) which is made to recharge cell phones. It lasts for hours running the tracker.

Polar alignment in the northern hemisphere is extremely easy.

David

 

[just Tony]

Anyway, I expect to spend about $400 on a Star Adventurer tracker, unless there is another one that is "better" for just a little more.

There's a bit of a product hole between trackers and telescope mounts in terms of both performance and price.

I've had my Star Adventurer for about a week now and feel that it is at the upper end of design factors for that product segment. Its distinguishing quality is the distance between the two bearings on the polar axis which goes a long way to provide stability via the stiffness of the structure. The form factor of some of the other products that resemble decks of cards go in the other direction. Of course you'll want to use serious tripod legs. I'm using a 3-series carbon Gitzo at low extension. A 4-series would not be a bad idea if you mount a long-ish telephoto lens.

To move to higher levels of performance you could consider getting a used telescope mount. The Celestron CG-5 version that is bundled with the large steel tripod legs is stouter than the wood or aluminum leg variants, and its large production quantities mean you'll occasionally find them at good prices. I got this one for $200 through AstroMart.

I don't know much about telescopes, but I should point out that I already have a Sigma 60-600mm F6.3 lens, so the telescope should be "better" than that. I read that the Star Adventurer starts to not work well with focal lengths over 300-400mm.

That caution is quite plausible. Zooms in that market segment are going to catch some breezes too well and their extended weight distributions stretch out settling times.


That little red pin is where I took comet pictures yesterday

That spot is not far from where I had a very satisfying session shooting Hale-Bopp.

Fremont Peak is at a reasonable distance and may be another good option for you.

--
Wag more; bark less.

 

[mermaidkiller]

I read you have a fullframe DSLR, so mounting to a telescope requires a Nikon Z mount (or legacy F mount as you have an FTZ adapter) adapter to 2" barrel. But avoid T ring as these vignette too much. Get a Nikon F mount to 48mm adapter which does not vignette in a 2" barrel.
--
Ricoh KR-5 ... Pentax ME Super ... Canon T90 ... ... ... 40d ... 7d ... 6d

 

[bokemon]

I read you have a fullframe DSLR, so mounting to a telescope requires a Nikon Z mount (or legacy F mount as you have an FTZ adapter) adapter to 2" barrel. But avoid T ring as these vignette too much. Get a Nikon F mount to 48mm adapter which does not vignette in a 2" barrel.
--
Ricoh KR-5 ... Pentax ME Super ... Canon T90 ... ... ... 40d ... 7d ... 6d

Thanks for the tip. Did not know that.

 

[bokemon]

Hello again,

Thanks for the suggestions. It seems the Redcat is a popular scope. It is 250mm F4.9. But recently I got a Nikon 180mm F2.8 lens which is also reportedly good for astro. It seems most refractor scopes under $800 are in the range of 300-500 focal length and F6. But my Sigma 60-600 is F5.6 within that range, and F6.3 at 600mm. It is supposed to have pretty good resolution for "normal" photography, but I don't know for astro. Probably the telescopes would be a little better, but might not be worth it over the improvement.

Regarding the mounts, I knew this would happen. The more I read, the more I learn about how the mount I initially wanted is inadequate in some way and now I need to increase the price.

So initially I wanted to get the Star Adventurer. But then I found out that it doesn't have the GOTO capability and doesn't really work that well for longer lenses. OK, if I increase the budget to $500 I could get something like the iEXOS-100 or SmartEq Pro+ which are two-axis and GOTO. But even those are only good to about 2-300mm unguided. So add a bit more for guiding setup, and now they should be good for about 500+mm.

Then I started reading about how even these are wimpy beginner setups and that if I want to do over 600mm, I would need to step up again to the mounts that can handle over 20 lbs. I think there's a few mounts here in the $800 range like EXOS2 GT with the PMC electronics, etc.

But nahh, I think I'd better stop at the $500 mounts. I expect to need to spend a few $hundred more on various things like guiding setup, light pollution filter, various brackets, etc.

 

[just Tony]

Hello again,

Thanks for the suggestions. It seems the Redcat is a popular scope. It is 250mm F4.9. But recently I got a Nikon 180mm F2.8 lens which is also reportedly good for astro. It seems most refractor scopes under $800 are in the range of 300-500 focal length and F6. But my Sigma 60-600 is F5.6 within that range, and F6.3 at 600mm. It is supposed to have pretty good resolution for "normal" photography, but I don't know for astro. Probably the telescopes would be a little better, but might not be worth it over the improvement.

Regarding the mounts, I knew this would happen. The more I read, the more I learn about how the mount I initially wanted is inadequate in some way and now I need to increase the price.

So initially I wanted to get the Star Adventurer. But then I found out that it doesn't have the GOTO capability and doesn't really work that well for longer lenses. OK, if I increase the budget to $500 I could get something like the iEXOS-100

I would avoid that one. The spindly looking tripod and the claimed 19# payload capacity don't reconcile. The mount itself appears to be close to the low end of the physical embodiments of German equatorials.

or SmartEq Pro+

That appears to be a step up. That declination axis housing is unusually large compared to the polar axis counterpart but perhaps that is where much of the electronics are housed. Better choice in my opinion.

which are two-axis and GOTO. But even those are only good to about 2-300mm unguided. So add a bit more for guiding setup, and now they should be good for about 500+mm.

Then I started reading about how even these are wimpy beginner setups and that if I want to do over 600mm, I would need to step up again to the mounts that can handle over 20 lbs. I think there's a few mounts here in the $800 range like EXOS2 GT

Now you’re getting somewhere. This appears to be the direct descendant of the upgrade goto version of the CG-5 I showed above. It might even be simply rebadged. It should be quite stout for your planned lenses. Celestron bundled them with 8” reflector scopes (Newtonians and Schmidt-Cassegrain), which is pretty much the payload max.

$475 at some stores.

with the PMC electronics, etc.

But nahh, I think I'd better stop at the $500 mounts. I expect to need to spend a few $hundred more on various things like guiding setup, light pollution filter, various brackets, etc.

You can delay the guider for a while.

 

[bokemon]

. OK, if I increase the budget to $500 I could get something like the iEXOS-100

I would avoid that one. The spindly looking tripod and the claimed 19# payload capacity don't reconcile. The mount itself appears to be close to the low end of the physical embodiments of German equatorials.

Thanks for the comments on the various mounts. The manufacturer claims only 9 pounds for astrophotography (which is kind of close to the limit of my 6 pound lens plus other stuff). I think they are trying to build up some kind of hobbyist community around their PMC controller and software system. Occasionally on the forums there will be a person who was extra careful and fine-tuned their gears or whatever and got good results even with 1000mm+ scopes over the weight limit. But I don't know why they are including a flimsy tripod with it. (Don't most people already have a tripod?)

or SmartEq Pro+

That appears to be a step up. That declination axis housing is unusually large compared to the polar axis counterpart but perhaps that is where much of the electronics are housed. Better choice in my opinion.

Then I started reading about how even these are wimpy beginner setups and that if I want to do over 600mm, I would need to step up again to the mounts that can handle over 20 lbs. I think there's a few mounts here in the $800 range like EXOS2 GT

Now you’re getting somewhere. This appears to be the direct descendant of the upgrade goto version of the CG-5 I showed above. It might even be simply rebadged. It should be quite stout for your planned lenses. Celestron bundled them with 8” reflector scopes (Newtonians and Schmidt-Cassegrain), which is pretty much the payload max.

$475 at some stores.

I think $475 is for the "older" version with the pendant. I saw a few comments where people were not that happy with it until they opened it up and made some tweaks. The new $7-800 version with "PMC" in the name has upgraded gears and controllers and software, etc which requires a tablet or laptop to run. The company seems to be pushing this model and abandoned the older one.

 

[just Tony]

Occasionally on the forums there will be a person who was extra careful and fine-tuned their gears or whatever and got good results even with 1000mm+ scopes over the weight limit.

Maybe they didn't experience anything stronger than a very light breeze at that time.

But I don't know why they are including a flimsy tripod with it. (Don't most people already have a tripod?)

A tripod that does well for general photo use which might include backpacking can indeed be just what you want under a simple tracker supporting a wide angle or short telephoto lens.

However, even a great tripod for supporting a 600 or 800mm lens on a gimbal might not qualify for some of the tasks in astrophotography, for example providing arcsecond stability for 3000+ mm focal lengths at extended times. 1/2000 second exposures times are in a different world than 2000 seconds. It depends so heavily on how deep you'll go go down the rabbit hole.

Advice on extending extendable legs: maybe don't do that. :-D

I think $475 is for the "older" version with the pendant. I saw a few comments where people were not that happy with it until they opened it up and made some tweaks.

I had to make some tweaks on the Losmandy G-11 I once had. Mounts from Astro-Physics and Paramount are probably perfect out of the box. Cheap or good: pick either one, or a compromise in between.

The new $7-800 version with "PMC" in the name has upgraded gears and controllers and software, etc which requires a tablet or laptop to run. The company seems to be pushing this model and abandoned the older one.

Thanks for the additional details, that's good to know.

The upgraded gears, and maybe the upgraded controllers, are what would draw my attention. Features that deliver improvements during exposures (permanent periodic error corrections; being able to execute corrections on both axes at the same time - useful for comets) can do more to achieve a perfect night than those that are invoked only between exposures (for example, "goto").

--
Wag more; bark less.

 

[bokemon]

However, even a great tripod for supporting a 600 or 800mm lens on a gimbal might not qualify for some of the tasks in astrophotography, for example providing arcsecond stability for 3000+ mm focal lengths at extended times. 1/2000 second exposures times are in a different world than 2000 seconds. It depends so heavily on how deep you'll go go down the rabbit hole.

Advice on extending extendable legs: maybe don't do that. :-D

OK, that makes sense.

 

[Astrophotographer 10]

have a look at the Skywatcher mounts. There are several models from quite small to large.

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optcorp.com

I was researching these types of mounts a little while ago. I posted asking for opinions from users on an astro site and I got several responses all positive.

Its good bang for your buck.

Greg.