If I started a thread for GIMP users and what it can do, any takers?

[Mark_A]

To each their own, and I know some people are hardcore about the FOSS principles, but I would rather pay for polished commercial software than spend a huge amount of time trying to figure out something like Darktable or RawTherapee.

To me GIMP is *really* a no-brainer as you can get Affinity photo for $75 full price or less on sale, and you get updates for years. It isn't like the old days of Photoshop costing $600 for a new license and then hundreds a year for updates.

The thing that makes the choice clear for the FOSS programs is if you are using Linux. Which I have done off and on for for years, and the thing that always drags me back to Windows is the unavailability of the software I use on a daily or at least regular basis, including my photo-processing software.

Also, perhaps some people are extremely limited in funds, or truly into Stallmanism, or just like to tinker and figure out how to do stuff. Or some combination of the three. To each their own. Personally, I made the decision long ago that if I had to use GIMP I just would not do image editing. Pretty much the same with using Darktable or RawTherapee. Fortunately I can afford the commercial packages though.

Hi Carol T,

Thanks for your post.

I was a committed Adobe elements user until my hard drive failed and I couldn't locate a licence, Adobe required I buy it again which I declined.

I have found GIMP pretty easy to use, when I started playing with it I said to myself if I can find a way to do everything I used to do in elements, I will keep it. It didn't take long, I can now easily do everything in GIMP which I used to do in elements, and there is a lot more that GIMP will do for me to play with.

My understanding is darktable is to GIMP what Lightroom is to PS. It makes sense for me to look at it especially as I do really need a raw editor. I have only played with it for a couple of hours but my initial impression is it will improve my process.

As regards FOSS, at work I use MS Office (doesn't everyone?), it is industry standard, but I don't pay to use it at home, at home for my own purposes I use Apache Open Office.

Mark_A

 

[Mark_A]

Wouldn't you be better off saving in DNG, PDF or TIFF format before editing? FastStone gives you that option.

Hi tbcass,

Yes quite possibly, anyhow I am moving away from converting file types using FastStone so the point is moot.

Me I am not so worried about jpg. I shot only jpeg for many years.

People complain about that jpg is a lossy format so you can lose details. I took a jpeg image, saved it as a 100% jpeg, closed it. Opened it again and saved it again as a 100% jpg, I repeated this 10 times and then compared the 10th iteration jpg with the original.

Mark_A

 

[tbcass]

Wouldn't you be better off saving in DNG or TIFF format before editing? FastStone gives you that option.

Hi tbcass,

Yes quite possibly, anyhow I am moving away from converting file types using FastStone so the point is moot.

Me I am not so worried about jpg. I shot only jpeg for many years.

People complain about that jpg is a lossy format so you can lose details. I took a jpeg image, saved it as a 100% jpeg, closed it. Opened it again and saved it again as a 100% jpg, I repeated this 10 times and then compared the 10th iteration jpg with the original.

Mark_A

That's because you made no edits, so you simply were saving an unaltered image over and over. Editing is a destructive process.

--
Tom

 

[Carol T]

Hi Carol T,

Thanks for your post.

I was a committed Adobe elements user until my hard drive failed and I couldn't locate a licence, Adobe required I buy it again which I declined.

I have found GIMP pretty easy to use, when I started playing with it I said to myself if I can find a way to do everything I used to do in elements, I will keep it. It didn't take long, I can now easily do everything in GIMP which I used to do in elements, and there is a lot more that GIMP will do for me to play with.

My understanding is darktable is to GIMP what Lightroom is to PS. It makes sense for me to look at it especially as I do really need a raw editor. I have only played with it for a couple of hours but my initial impression is it will improve my process.

As regards FOSS, at work I use MS Office (doesn't everyone?), it is industry standard, but I don't pay to use it at home, at home for my own purposes I use Apache Open Office.

Mark_A

If GIMP works well for you, then it seems like a great choice!

Well, Lr and Darktable are both raw converters, and Ps and GIMP both image editors, so in that regard, sure.

I have not worked with Lr and Ps in years, so I cannot recall, but they may have advantages of integration that the Darktable/GIMP pairing does not. However, in my mind Lr/Ps (most people who just use those get the Photo Plan I would guess) is at the other end of the spectrum from Darktable/GIMP in that not only are they highly refined and commercialized, but also are subscription-only now. So for them to remain usable for new images, you have to maintain the subscription, you cannot just buy software and use it for ten years.

Best wishes in working with your new software!

 

[lylejk]

Yeah; agree with you. That's why I just leave things at their default and do any retouching in the GIMP. lolololol

 

[Tom Axford]

People complain about that jpg is a lossy format so you can lose details. I took a jpeg image, saved it as a 100% jpeg, closed it. Opened it again and saved it again as a 100% jpg, I repeated this 10 times and then compared the 10th iteration jpg with the original.

JPEG is an algorithm that gives exactly the same results every time if you apply it to exactly the same image (assuming that the quality setting remains the same too).

However, if the image changes, even by only a tiny amount, then the JPEG image may change by a larger amount. The mathematics of the JPEG algorithm is quite complicated, so it is not easy to predict how much the image will be degraded by doing repeated steps of editing the image then exporting as a JPEG, but it is enough to be noticeable in many cases.

 

[Mark_A]

If GIMP works well for you, then it seems like a great choice!

Hi Carol. While I started this thread to get tips and tricks on GIMP (and I still want that), it now seems I can do quite a bit in darktable which I up till now would have done in GIMP.

Well, Lr and Darktable are both raw converters, and Ps and GIMP both image editors, so in that regard, sure.

I just used darktable to whittle a directory of 300 pictures into a manageable amount to edit using the star rating thing it has. It is easier than how I used to manage things.

I have not worked with Lr and Ps in years, so I cannot recall,

What photo software do you use Carol?

but they may have advantages of integration that the Darktable/GIMP pairing does not. However, in my mind Lr/Ps (most people who just use those get the Photo Plan I would guess) is at the other end of the spectrum from Darktable/GIMP in that not only are they highly refined and commercialized, but also are subscription-only now. So for them to remain usable for new images, you have to maintain the subscription, you cannot just buy software and use it for ten years.

I admit to not liking the idea of paying on an ongoing basis. But I accept Adobe is probably the gold standard, most of the photographers in my local camera club will be Adobe users I think.

Best wishes in working with your new software!

Thanks, I am now reading the manual which someone kindly linked to, it is making things easier. I have managed to cull a directly of 300 images down to perhaps 20 to process and have edited and cropped a photo now. Being new to working with raws I have a bit of a learning curve in front of me.

Mark_A

 

[Mark_A]

I recommend also that you scan through the darktable manual:

https://www.darktable.org/resources/

Hi bakubo,

I just wanted to thank you for that link.

As you probably imagined, it is helping a lot!!

Mark_A

 

[Carol T]

If GIMP works well for you, then it seems like a great choice!

Hi Carol. While I started this thread to get tips and tricks on GIMP (and I still want that), it now seems I can do quite a bit in darktable which I up till now would have done in GIMP.

That has been the trend, at least in the commercial raw converters as they have added more features. I don’t know about Darktable, I have not used it in several years.

Well, Lr and Darktable are both raw converters, and Ps and GIMP both image editors, so in that regard, sure.

I just used darktable to whittle a directory of 300 pictures into a manageable amount to edit using the star rating thing it has. It is easier than how I used to manage things.

Cool! IMO raw converters are better at handling groups of files (such as applying parametric adjustments to photos taken under the same conditions) while image editors are more about working on a single image at a time.

I have not worked with Lr and Ps in years, so I cannot recall,

What photo software do you use Carol?

I use DxO Photolab Elite (now just PhotoLab, they killed the cheaper version with the current release) for raw conversions/parametric edits and Serif Affinity Photo for image editing.

PL is *extremely* expensive when first buying in compared with most, maybe even all other raw converters. It is a perpetual license rather than a subscription.

AP is very reasonable, esp since it is a perpetual license and gets free updates for several years, or at least has so far.

but they may have advantages of integration that the Darktable/GIMP pairing does not. However, in my mind Lr/Ps (most people who just use those get the Photo Plan I would guess) is at the other end of the spectrum from Darktable/GIMP in that not only are they highly refined and commercialized, but also are subscription-only now. So for them to remain usable for new images, you have to maintain the subscription, you cannot just buy software and use it for ten years.

I admit to not liking the idea of paying on an ongoing basis. But I accept Adobe is probably the gold standard, most of the photographers in my local camera club will be Adobe users I think.

Well, we have all different preferences and different budgets. If Darktable and GIMP work for you, you are golden! The only problem would be if you wanted to share files with them. I don’t think Lr plays with anything but Lr. So you couldn’t share Darktable files with Lr users, or the other way around.

GIMP may be able to open Ps files, I dunno. I don’t know if the layers and edits can translate between GIMP and Ps. I think it would be more likely that the GIMP or Ps file would have to be exported with all the changes flattened and then the other program start from there. If that is something you might want to do probably people who use GIMP could give you a clear answer on that.

Best wishes in working with your new software!

Thanks, I am now reading the manual which someone kindly linked to, it is making things easier. I have managed to cull a directly of 300 images down to perhaps 20 to process and have edited and cropped a photo now. Being new to working with raws I have a bit of a learning curve in front of me.

Good luck! I would think the Darktable people have a forum, you could ask questions there. For something more mainstream like Lr YouTube searches would help a lot, but I don’t know if much is out there on DT. Might be worth having a look? You might get something more cohesive than what a manual gives you.

Mark_A

 

[bakubo]

If Darktable and GIMP work for you, you are golden! The only problem would be if you wanted to share files with them. I don’t think Lr plays with anything but Lr. So you couldn’t share Darktable files with Lr users, or the other way around.

It works just like most other 2 unrelated apps: export a TIFF (16-bit or 8-bit) or JPEG from darktable and then open it in Lr/LrC or vice versa. I think it is the same for DxO, C1, etc. That is the typical way files are shared, I think. Or they can all open an original raw file. Am I misunderstanding what you are saying?

 

[Carol T]

If Darktable and GIMP work for you, you are golden! The only problem would be if you wanted to share files with them. I don’t think Lr plays with anything but Lr. So you couldn’t share Darktable files with Lr users, or the other way around.

It works just like most other 2 unrelated apps: export a TIFF (16-bit or 8-bit) or JPEG from darktable and then open it in Lr/LrC or vice versa. I think it is the same for DxO, C1, etc. That is the typical way files are shared, I think. Or they can all open an original raw file. Am I misunderstanding what you are saying?

I think so, yes. What I meant was to be able to open an adjusted raw file with the adjustments still active. I don’t know of anything that does that between different apps, no. I don’t even know if you can share Lr files with other Lr users.

PhotoLab (by default I think, I certainly never had to tell it do that) stores edits in a separate file, so if you wanted you could send someone the raw and the PL file and they could pick up where you left off if they had PL.

But sure, you can always export a TIFF with the baked-in changes from one app and start from there is a different app, which is how I go from PL to my image editor. You just cannot non-destructively reverse any changes made in the original app.

Probably extremely rare thing for raw files anyhow. And yeah, most people would just share the raw and let the other person start from there.

Sorry for the confusion, pretty esoteric.

 

[arrow501]

If Darktable and GIMP work for you, you are golden! The only problem would be if you wanted to share files with them. I don’t think Lr plays with anything but Lr. So you couldn’t share Darktable files with Lr users, or the other way around.

It works just like most other 2 unrelated apps: export a TIFF (16-bit or 8-bit) or JPEG from darktable and then open it in Lr/LrC or vice versa. I think it is the same for DxO, C1, etc. That is the typical way files are shared, I think. Or they can all open an original raw file. Am I misunderstanding what you are saying?

I think so, yes. What I meant was to be able to open an adjusted raw file with the adjustments still active. I don’t know of anything that does that between different apps, no. I don’t even know if you can share Lr files with other Lr users.

PhotoLab (by default I think, I certainly never had to tell it do that) stores edits in a separate file, so if you wanted you could send someone the raw and the PL file and they could pick up where you left off if they had PL.

But sure, you can always export a TIFF with the baked-in changes from one app and start from there is a different app, which is how I go from PL to my image editor. You just cannot non-destructively reverse any changes made in the original app.

Probably extremely rare thing for raw files anyhow. And yeah, most people would just share the raw and let the other person start from there.

Sorry for the confusion, pretty esoteric.

Hi Carol, like Photolab, Darktable stores edits in sidecar files which can be shared. Darktable stores it's edits in .xmp files.

 

[StrugglingforLight]

I don't use GIMP for anything more than cropping or resizing.

As far as Darktable and Rawtherapee go...I like Rawtherapee in that it's far easier to get pleasing colors. Darktable is more complex and powerful especially in stuff like masking and local adjustments. I also find it does a better job in highlight recovery and noise reduction (though considerably worse than commercial products).

Both are very unpolished and unintuitive (meaning much steeper learning curve) compared to the commercial software. Plenty of good Darktable resources on Youtube.

 

[Carol T]

arrow501 wrote:.

Hi Carol, like Photolab, Darktable stores edits in sidecar files which can be shared. Darktable stores it's edits in .xmp files.

Oh, cool, thx! I am not surprised that FOSS software would be like that! I am guessing there is some way you can do that with Lr, but I have not a clue. I think someone told me once that you can have Lr create edit files that are not part of the library, but IIRC the default is to bury them in the library somehow.

 

[Mark_A]

That has been the trend, at least in the commercial raw converters as they have added more features. I don’t know about Darktable, I have not used it in several years.

Early days, just learning the interface as much as anything. It was that way with GIMP also, things were all there, just nor necessarily where I expected them to be.

Cool! IMO raw converters are better at handling groups of files (such as applying parametric adjustments to photos taken under the same conditions) while image editors are more about working on a single image at a time.

Yes, certainly this tagging feature seems useful. It can do a lot I used to do in GIMP.

I use DxO Photolab Elite (now just PhotoLab, they killed the cheaper version with the current release) for raw conversions/parametric edits and Serif Affinity Photo for image editing.

I did look at Affinity Photo and a couple of others when I lost my Elements. I haven't really heard about Photolab though.

Well, we have all different preferences and different budgets. If Darktable and GIMP work for you, you are golden!

At the moment I am a happy bunny. I think they are going to work for me.

The only problem would be if you wanted to share files with them. I don’t think Lr plays with anything but Lr. So you couldn’t share Darktable files with Lr users, or the other way around.

I think I would only ever want to share a raw, or a jpg, I wouldn't even really keep any intermediate file types. darktable keeps all its edits in a separate file, my raw is never changed, and with GIMP I so far always edit from raw to jpg in one go. I suppose if I get cleverer with it I could save in GIMP's format if perhaps there are loads of layers or something and I don't finish editing in one go.

Good luck! I would think the Darktable people have a forum, you could ask questions there. For something more mainstream like Lr YouTube searches would help a lot, but I don’t know if much is out there on DT. Might be worth having a look? You might get something more cohesive than what a manual gives you.

A forum is a good idea, thank you, I will have a search. There are some youtube videos on darktable, I have watched a few already. More to come ..

Mark_A

 

[Carol T]

Sounds like a great start and so far a great experience! I wish you the best in your new growth in post!

 

[Mika Y.]

I've been using GIMP as my primary raster graphics editor since the late 90's and it's satisfied my needs pretty well, especially with the G'MIC plugin mentioned by a few others.

That being said, like a few other people have commented, I've found myself using it less lately, since RAW converters include these days a lot of functionality that I might have handled earlier in GIMP after conversion (perspective correction, cloning/healing, many operations requiring masks etc).

 

[Mark_A]

I've been using GIMP as my primary raster graphics editor since the late 90's and it's satisfied my needs pretty well, especially with the G'MIC plugin mentioned by a few others.

Hi Mika, What does the G'MIC plugin do, if it is good and is it easy to install?

That being said, like a few other people have commented, I've found myself using it less lately, since RAW converters include these days a lot of functionality that I might have handled earlier in GIMP after conversion (perspective correction, cloning/healing, many operations requiring masks etc).

Yes, I can see myself doing quite a lot in darktable. Even though I like GIMP. Probably I will still use it though - have to work out what to do with what ..

Mark_A

 

[lacogada]

Hi Mika, What does the G'MIC plugin do, if it is good and is it easy to install?

I'd be interested in that also.

I do not have Gimp .... but have used the G'MIC plugin within PS CS6.

Does unusual and weird stuff ... but I have not found anything in it to help me edit a photo.

Maybe I don't understand how to use it.

 

[Mark_A]

Yeah; agree with you. That's why I just leave things at their default and do any retouching in the GIMP. lolololol

Hi lylejk,

At the moment I am just playing with darktable on its own. And before that GIMP on its own. I understand I can link them to hand over images from darktable directly into GIMP but I haven't checked that out yet.

Are you using darktable and GIMP together lylejk?

And if so, do you have any tips for me?

Mark_A