If 5dmk4 has no new sensor

[Lynn David Cole]

Yes, I've done the multiple exposures, both for HDR and pano. That of course takes time and don't always give the intended results.

 

[Rick Knepper]

The major problem with your understanding of IQ is the old fashioned statement ETTR...with Sony sensors, the photographer exposes properly and works from there.

apparently yours is lacking.

you do ETTR so that you maximize the captured DR regardless. otherwise the DR latitude in the highlights is wasted.

as a matter of fact, I question anyone that doesn't ETTR to the highlights (and why on earth isn't this a metering setting in this day and age anyways) that also claims they need more DR - when they don't effectively use what they have already.

I don't ETTR on purpose (if I understand the term correctly). But...

I take the reading the camera gives and bracket with 1/3 stops to +/- 1 stop. Back at the hacienda, I pick the best exposure for what I want to do. That 'perfect exposure' has turned out to all over the place, plus, minus. If one is shooting EETR on every shot instead of bracketing, I think this is a mistake. Bracket and get a fistful of choices.

It is my observation, correct me if I am wrong, that the plus exposures in a bracket or an image that has been ETTRed are less saturated.

When I recognize a scene as being a high dynamic range scene, I not only bracket my shots (my form of ETTR), I take many shots metering off various tones in the scene with the ultimate goal of reducing the need to pull detail by lifting shadows more than 1 stop (sometimes unattainable with just 1 stop).

I may also use my D800E for a shot instead of my 5D3.

--
Rick Knepper, photographer, shooting for pleasure. It is better to have It and not need It than need It and not have It. Mystery Gardner: "Rick, you have a passion for photography but not a position. That's a good thing." Based on 2014 keepers, I shot the following percentages: 5D3=42%, D800=31%, 6D=25% & D3x=2%. Various RAW comparisons at Link below. Includes 5D3 vs D800E (new uploads), 5D3 vs. 6D, Zeiss lenses etc. https://app.box.com/s/71w40ita6hrcfghojaie

 

[Mako2011]

The major problem with your understanding of IQ is the old fashioned statement ETTR...with Sony sensors, the photographer exposes properly and works from there.

apparently yours is lacking.

you do ETTR so that you maximize the captured DR regardless. otherwise the DR latitude in the highlights is wasted.

as a matter of fact, I question anyone that doesn't ETTR to the highlights (and why on earth isn't this a metering setting in this day and age anyways) that also claims they need more DR - when they don't effectively use what they have already.

I don't ETTR on purpose (if I understand the term correctly). But...

There really is no need to do it on purpose...unless the goal of the exposure desition is to preserve specific highlight detsil by insuring taht detail in the capture is not blown.

I take the reading the camera gives and bracket with 1/3 stops to +/- 1 stop. Back at the hacienda, I pick the best exposure for what I want to do.

What characteristics describe the "Best" exposure? How do you decide? With ETTR there really is no "Need" to bracket as the goal and solution is specific (put the appropriate highlight detail just shy of clipping).

That 'perfect exposure' has turned out to all over the place, plus, minus. If one is shooting EETR on every shot instead of bracketing, I think this is a mistake. Bracket and get a fistful of choices.

Depends...if the goal of the photographer is specifically to preserve highlight detail...then ETTR is an excellent technique. Certainly not the best solution for all shots/scenarios..just as bracketing is not the best solution for all scenarios.

It is my observation, correct me if I am wrong, that the plus exposures in a bracket or an image that has been ETTRed are less saturated.

Not really the case as the "plus exposures" in a bracket may have clipped important (to the photographer) detail while that would not be the case with an exposure done purposely via ETTR. Remember also that the "plus exposures" in a bracket often seems over exposed (by definition) while an ETTR shot will often seem underexposed. Interior shot of a church in dim light, for example, will seem very underexposed using ETTR (to preserve the detail of the stain glass widows at mid day). All depends on what detail the photographer has planned to have at the right in his ETTR solution. Remember, an ETTR shot often looks as if the histogram has been purposely shifted to the left while the "Plus Exposure" in a bracket has the histogram shift to the right (in comparison). That assumes by "plus Exposure" you mean the one in an under, middle, and over bracket is the "over" exposed shot. Some folks term it opposite.

When I recognize a scene as being a high dynamic range scene, I not only bracket my shots (my form of ETTR), I take many shots metering off various tones in the scene with the ultimate goal of reducing the need to pull detail by lifting shadows more than 1 stop (sometimes unattainable with just 1 stop).

That a fine technique. With ETTR you are simply doing it in one shot as by definition there really is only one correct exposure... and the ultimate goal is not related to PP economy but preserving a specific detail

 

[Lemming51]

its just not acceptable that I will have to pay so much for a camera which is already beaten by smaller sensors and cheaper cameras, and the leaps in sensor tech and what will soon come from panasonic have me worried

You don't have to buy a new EOS if you don't want it. Why haven't you switched already if you're convinced of Canon's inferiority?

 

[Iliah Borg]

Will you leave Canon? I think I will have no choice!

It is a very limited view to consider sensor only. Not just because the camera is much more than a sensor, but also because there is much room for image quality improvement even with a given sensor.

 

[David Hull]

Canon is in the business to sell cameras and make a profit to satisfy investors. They've lagged behind the competition for several years on both resolution and low ISO DR and their strategy is brilliant when you think about it. They have this massive pent up demand for both with their customer base but they intro the ultra high res camera first without any significant improvement to low ISO DR because they know people will still flock to buy them like Hershey bars. They wait a bit and then intro a low (by todays' standards) resolution FF but with new sensor architecture and state of the art low ISO DR and probably other benefits and sell even more boatloads of cameras. Then a few years from now they announce they finally put it all together in one camera and everyone again beats their door down to get one. Why sell people only 1 camera now when you can sell them 3 over several years.

Don't think for one moment that Canon can't produce the uber high res high DR camera today.

Canon plays the market like a fiddle and much better than the competition when you think about it.

Bob

--

http://www.pbase.com/rwbaron

We'll see if they carried it one generation too far.

At some point you think it will bite them, pushing the milking just one time too far....

They are at the end of their milking process and will have no choice but to develop a new sensor soon. The question is how long till we see a new (not newly) designed sensor from ground up.

Hopefully they are working on an iso-less sensor.

Canon's current sensors are about as ISOless at it gets.

 

[MASTERPPA]

What was wrong with the original 5D? Nothing.. at the time. As someone who shoots weddings AND landscapes, for wedding 5D3 is great.. For landscapes not as much as the D750. The Nikon/Sony sensor is just better.. And not a little, but not a lot either..

This has nothing to do with taking winning photographers, just ones with more DR, better shadow noise and more color information (yes, the Nikon and Sony's have more color information)

What is wrong with 5D MKIII? Where is 5D MKIII limiting you from taking winning photographs?

Will you leave Canon? I think I will have no choice!

--
www.lightpilgrim.com

 

[WalterSrChat]

Will you leave Canon? I think I will have no choice!

Rather a Canon or other camera owner remains or leave their camera manufacture or not is a personal decision and is usually based on their understanding of the facts.

That being said, I was informed by a knowledgeable teacher that little ideas come from little minds!

Walter Sr.

 

[Rick Knepper]

The major problem with your understanding of IQ is the old fashioned statement ETTR...with Sony sensors, the photographer exposes properly and works from there.

apparently yours is lacking.

you do ETTR so that you maximize the captured DR regardless. otherwise the DR latitude in the highlights is wasted.

as a matter of fact, I question anyone that doesn't ETTR to the highlights (and why on earth isn't this a metering setting in this day and age anyways) that also claims they need more DR - when they don't effectively use what they have already.

I don't ETTR on purpose (if I understand the term correctly). But...

There really is no need to do it on purpose...unless the goal of the exposure desition is to preserve specific highlight detsil by insuring taht detail in the capture is not blown.

I've erased what I originally wrote here because we may not be on the same page with regard to the terminology of ETTR.

I take the reading the camera gives and bracket with 1/3 stops to +/- 1 stop. Back at the hacienda, I pick the best exposure for what I want to do.

What characteristics describe the "Best" exposure? How do you decide?

Best exposure -> Whatever you, Mako2011, deems to be the best exposure for what you want to do.

With ETTR there really is no "Need" to bracket as the goal and solution is specific (put the appropriate highlight detail just shy of clipping).

There is always a reason to bracket unless you are storage-limited.

That 'perfect exposure' has turned out to all over the place, plus, minus. If one is shooting EETR on every shot instead of bracketing, I think this is a mistake. Bracket and get a fistful of choices.

Depends...if the goal of the photographer is specifically to preserve highlight detail...then ETTR is an excellent technique. Certainly not the best solution for all shots/scenarios..just as bracketing is not the best solution for all scenarios.

Bracketing works in 100% of all scenarios. What do you think bracketing is for?

It is my observation, correct me if I am wrong, that the plus exposures in a bracket or an image that has been ETTRed are less saturated.

Not really the case as the "plus exposures" in a bracket may have clipped important (to the photographer) detail while that would not be the case with an exposure done purposely via ETTR.

Remember also that the "plus exposures" in a bracket often seems over exposed (by definition) while an ETTR shot will often seem underexposed.

ETTR = Expose to the Right

You seem to be saying that ETTR means you are exposing to preserve detail in highlights by going with a minus exposure? After all of the years, when I thought I knew what ETTR means, I may not.

Interior shot of a church in dim light, for example, will seem very underexposed using ETTR (to preserve the detail of the stain glass widows at mid day).

I thought ETTR meant you overexpose right up to clipping the details so that you don't leave the shadows too dark.

I'll leave the rest of this alone until we straighten out this term in my mind.

All depends on what detail the photographer has planned to have at the right in his ETTR solution. Remember, an ETTR shot often looks as if the histogram has been purposely shifted to the left while the "Plus Exposure" in a bracket has the histogram shift to the right (in comparison). That assumes by "plus Exposure" you mean the one in an under, middle, and over bracket is the "over" exposed shot. Some folks term it opposite.

When I recognize a scene as being a high dynamic range scene, I not only bracket my shots (my form of ETTR), I take many shots metering off various tones in the scene with the ultimate goal of reducing the need to pull detail by lifting shadows more than 1 stop (sometimes unattainable with just 1 stop).

That a fine technique. With ETTR you are simply doing it in one shot as by definition there really is only one correct exposure... and the ultimate goal is not related to PP economy but preserving a specific detail

--
My opinions are my own and not those of DPR or its administration. They carry no 'special' value (except to me and Lacie of course)

--
Rick Knepper, photographer, shooting for pleasure. It is better to have It and not need It than need It and not have It. Mystery Gardner: "Rick, you have a passion for photography but not a position. That's a good thing." Based on 2014 keepers, I shot the following percentages: 5D3=42%, D800=31%, 6D=25% & D3x=2%. Various RAW comparisons at Link below. Includes 5D3 vs D800E (new uploads), 5D3 vs. 6D, Zeiss lenses etc. https://app.box.com/s/71w40ita6hrcfghojaie

 

[steelhead3]

You are correct in your understanding of ETTR Rick