If 5dmk4 has no new sensor

[Hans Kruse]

Will you leave Canon? I think I will have no choice!

yes

I'm already starting the move. (made tricky though by fact I got super-teles years ago when they are cheap, so the move is sort of expensive and I've stalled out a bit, maybe get a sony+adapter for the moment until more funds get built up)

Your a fool to sell out of a bunch of great lens's because you think Canon aren't up to scratch, show me any photo taken with any other system (that canon couldn't deliver) that would make me think otherwise and I'd be astounded.

I sometimes wonder if people on here have forgot what photography is about, a different camera brand won't make your pictures any better if they are not great pictures already!!

 

[Rexgig0]

I will not "leave" Canon, but I already shoot with both Canon and Nikon, anyway. Each makes some wonderful lenses that will keep me from leaving either brand.

I see nothing wrong with owning a 5D Mark III (or IV) camera for my general-purpose shooting, and a D800e or D810 for specialized high-resolution shooting. I recently bought the 7D Mark II for birding, which has effectively postponed my purchase of either a 5D Mark III or D810 until late 2015 or 2016, by which time a 5D Mark IV may have been announced. (or, not...)

I would expect a 5D Mark IV to have AF improvements as seen in the 7D Mark II, and a faster SD card slot, able to take full advantage of the improved SD cards of today.

It is a good time to be a photographer!

 

[ppires85]

Will you leave Canon? I think I will have no choice!

yes

I'm already starting the move. (made tricky though by fact I got super-teles years ago when they are cheap, so the move is sort of expensive and I've stalled out a bit, maybe get a sony+adapter for the moment until more funds get built up)

Your a fool to sell out of a bunch of great lens's because you think Canon aren't up to scratch, show me any photo taken with any other system (that canon couldn't deliver) that would make me think otherwise and I'd be astounded.

I sometimes wonder if people on here have forgot what photography is about, a different camera brand won't make your pictures any better if they are not great pictures already!!

 

[Rick Knepper]

Will you leave Canon? I think I will have no choice!

yes

I'm already starting the move. (made tricky though by fact I got super-teles years ago when they are cheap, so the move is sort of expensive and I've stalled out a bit, maybe get a sony+adapter for the moment until more funds get built up)

Your a fool to sell out of a bunch of great lens's because you think Canon aren't up to scratch, show me any photo taken with any other system (that canon couldn't deliver) that would make me think otherwise and I'd be astounded.

You couldn't have made your point without calling someone a fool? If calling someone a fool is fair play here today, it is foolish not own at least two brands that cover the IQ 'sins' and shortcomings of the other brand.

I sometimes wonder if people on here have forgot what photography is about, a different camera brand won't make your pictures any better if they are not great pictures already!!

False argument. Circular logic.

 

[Hans Kruse]

Will you leave Canon? I think I will have no choice!

yes

I'm already starting the move. (made tricky though by fact I got super-teles years ago when they are cheap, so the move is sort of expensive and I've stalled out a bit, maybe get a sony+adapter for the moment until more funds get built up)

Your a fool to sell out of a bunch of great lens's because you think Canon aren't up to scratch, show me any photo taken with any other system (that canon couldn't deliver) that would make me think otherwise and I'd be astounded.

I sometimes wonder if people on here have forgot what photography is about, a different camera brand won't make your pictures any better if they are not great pictures already!!

 

[David Hull]

"0" exposure is always the best unless your camera can not support this paradigm.

Run us through how your metering works, please?

Because you seem to have some magic working there...

Regards, Mike

 

[David Hull]

Will you leave Canon? I think I will have no choice!

yes

I'm already starting the move. (made tricky though by fact I got super-teles years ago when they are cheap, so the move is sort of expensive and I've stalled out a bit, maybe get a sony+adapter for the moment until more funds get built up)

Your a fool to sell out of a bunch of great lens's because you think Canon aren't up to scratch, show me any photo taken with any other system (that canon couldn't deliver) that would make me think otherwise and I'd be astounded.

I sometimes wonder if people on here have forgot what photography is about, a different camera brand won't make your pictures any better if they are not great pictures already!!

 

[steelhead3]

For those people not in the Canon universe, a properly exposed picture from a good camera will be at "0", meaning the camera picked the proper exposure. With your limited DR, ETTR is used to protect the shadows on Cameras from a number of years ago (and present Canon cameras). Of course settings can be changed in any camera, but the ability to push and pull in post allows a lot of freedom in exposure latitude. Cameras with evf also have an advantage because what you see in the viewfinder is what you are going to get in the picture, plus exposure aids such as zebras etc. allow proper exposure on the fly.

 

[David Hull]

For those people not in the Canon universe, a properly exposed picture from a good camera will be at "0", meaning the camera picked the proper exposure. With your limited DR, ETTR is used to protect the shadows on Cameras from a number of years ago (and present Canon cameras). Of course settings can be changed in any camera, but the ability to push and pull in post allows a lot of freedom in exposure latitude. Cameras with evf also have an advantage because what you see in the viewfinder is what you are going to get in the picture, plus exposure aids such as zebras etc. allow proper exposure on the fly.

First off, there is no such thing as a properly exposed photograph. Exposure is really about artistic intent as much as anything else.

Secondly, you have exactly the same issues with your Sony camera with Sony's limited DR (and it is limited). You may get an additional 2 stops as a result of a more optimally designed DSP architecture but you only get that at ISO=100 and the entire world doesn't shoot at ISO=100. I almost never do. For those of us who shoot in scenarios where we run ISO significantly higher than that, the point is moot, Sony brings no real advantage.

 

[J A C S]

For those people not in the Canon universe, a properly exposed picture from a good camera will be at "0", meaning the camera picked the proper exposure. With your limited DR, ETTR is used to protect the shadows on Cameras from a number of years ago (and present Canon cameras). Of course settings can be changed in any camera, but the ability to push and pull in post allows a lot of freedom in exposure latitude. Cameras with evf also have an advantage because what you see in the viewfinder is what you are going to get in the picture, plus exposure aids such as zebras etc. allow proper exposure on the fly.

First off, there is no such thing as a properly exposed photograph. Exposure is really about artistic intent as much as anything else.

Secondly, you have exactly the same issues with your Sony camera with Sony's limited DR (and it is limited). You may get an additional 2 stops as a result of a more optimally designed DSP architecture but you only get that at ISO=100 and the entire world doesn't shoot at ISO=100. I almost never do. For those of us who shoot in scenarios where we run ISO significantly higher than that, the point is moot, Sony brings no real advantage.

Actually, the A7R and the A7II have significantly worse DR at high ISO than the Canon Universe. And at high ISO, DR really matters.

 

[Mike CH]

For those people not in the Canon universe, a properly exposed picture from a good camera will be at "0", meaning the camera picked the proper exposure. With your limited DR, ETTR is used to protect the shadows on Cameras from a number of years ago (and present Canon cameras). Of course settings can be changed in any camera, but the ability to push and pull in post allows a lot of freedom in exposure latitude. Cameras with evf also have an advantage because what you see in the viewfinder is what you are going to get in the picture, plus exposure aids such as zebras etc. allow proper exposure on the fly.

And then you drew your snickersnee, right?

Regards, Mike

 

[David Hull]

For those people not in the Canon universe, a properly exposed picture from a good camera will be at "0", meaning the camera picked the proper exposure. With your limited DR, ETTR is used to protect the shadows on Cameras from a number of years ago (and present Canon cameras). Of course settings can be changed in any camera, but the ability to push and pull in post allows a lot of freedom in exposure latitude. Cameras with evf also have an advantage because what you see in the viewfinder is what you are going to get in the picture, plus exposure aids such as zebras etc. allow proper exposure on the fly.

First off, there is no such thing as a properly exposed photograph. Exposure is really about artistic intent as much as anything else.

Secondly, you have exactly the same issues with your Sony camera with Sony's limited DR (and it is limited). You may get an additional 2 stops as a result of a more optimally designed DSP architecture but you only get that at ISO=100 and the entire world doesn't shoot at ISO=100. I almost never do. For those of us who shoot in scenarios where we run ISO significantly higher than that, the point is moot, Sony brings no real advantage.

Actually, the A7R and the A7II have significantly worse DR at high ISO than the Canon Universe. And at high ISO, DR really matters.

It has always seemed to me that if your desire is to maximize the dynamic range of the camera you want to run ISO at a minimum. Anyway, I don't pay much attention to the Sony offerings when I discuss this issue I am mostly thinking in terms of Canon vs. Nikon. Sony, for whatever reason, doesn't seem to get the same level of performance out of their sensors that Nikon does. The sensors are most likely not the same.

 

[rrccad]

For those people not in the Canon universe, a properly exposed picture from a good camera will be at "0", meaning the camera picked the proper exposure. With your limited DR, ETTR is used to protect the shadows on Cameras from a number of years ago (and present Canon cameras). Of course settings can be changed in any camera, but the ability to push and pull in post allows a lot of freedom in exposure latitude. Cameras with evf also have an advantage because what you see in the viewfinder is what you are going to get in the picture, plus exposure aids such as zebras etc. allow proper exposure on the fly.

wow .. this is nearly as amusing as the one thread where you stated that Sony lenses are better than canon's..

you clearly lack some knowledge.

if your camera sensor has 14 stops DR (no brand here)

if you shoot a scene that has 14 stops of DR in the actual scene you wish to capture, to capture it effectively you have to adjust your exposure so that the DR of the scene fits into the DR of the sensor.

that's maximizing the capture of the scene's DR with the camera's DR.

with ETTR'ing - you are shifting the highlights to the point of clipping - which insures that you are using all available DR headroom and thus maximizing the fit of scenic DR against the sensor's DR.

seriously you should try this - even on your sony sensor, your imagery will improve.

 

[steelhead3]

For those people not in the Canon universe, a properly exposed picture from a good camera will be at "0", meaning the camera picked the proper exposure. With your limited DR, ETTR is used to protect the shadows on Cameras from a number of years ago (and present Canon cameras). Of course settings can be changed in any camera, but the ability to push and pull in post allows a lot of freedom in exposure latitude. Cameras with evf also have an advantage because what you see in the viewfinder is what you are going to get in the picture, plus exposure aids such as zebras etc. allow proper exposure on the fly.

wow .. this is nearly as amusing as the one thread where you stated that Sony lenses are better than canon's..

you clearly lack some knowledge.

if your camera sensor has 14 stops DR (no brand here)

if you shoot a scene that has 14 stops of DR in the actual scene you wish to capture, to capture it effectively you have to adjust your exposure so that the DR of the scene fits into the DR of the sensor.

that's maximizing the capture of the scene's DR with the camera's DR.

with ETTR'ing - you are shifting the highlights to the point of clipping - which insures that you are using all available DR headroom and thus maximizing the fit of scenic DR against the sensor's DR.

seriously you should try this - even on your sony sensor, your imagery will improve.

You don't have to with a Sony sensor.

 

[rrccad]

For those people not in the Canon universe, a properly exposed picture from a good camera will be at "0", meaning the camera picked the proper exposure. With your limited DR, ETTR is used to protect the shadows on Cameras from a number of years ago (and present Canon cameras). Of course settings can be changed in any camera, but the ability to push and pull in post allows a lot of freedom in exposure latitude. Cameras with evf also have an advantage because what you see in the viewfinder is what you are going to get in the picture, plus exposure aids such as zebras etc. allow proper exposure on the fly.

wow .. this is nearly as amusing as the one thread where you stated that Sony lenses are better than canon's..

you clearly lack some knowledge.

if your camera sensor has 14 stops DR (no brand here)

if you shoot a scene that has 14 stops of DR in the actual scene you wish to capture, to capture it effectively you have to adjust your exposure so that the DR of the scene fits into the DR of the sensor.

that's maximizing the capture of the scene's DR with the camera's DR.

with ETTR'ing - you are shifting the highlights to the point of clipping - which insures that you are using all available DR headroom and thus maximizing the fit of scenic DR against the sensor's DR.

seriously you should try this - even on your sony sensor, your imagery will improve.

You don't have to with a Sony sensor.

sure you do - or you are not maximizing your DR captured by around 1 to 1.25 EV actually on most scenes.

sony sensor has nothing to do with it. esposing to the right, and the rationale even on shadow pushing has nothing to do with maximizing your captured DR.

perhaps learn something ..

 

[rrccad]

Cameras with evf also have an advantage because what you see in the viewfinder is what you are going to get in the picture, plus exposure aids such as zebras etc. allow proper exposure on the fly.

funny story.

Even MR from luminous landscape disagrees with you - the DR and contrast ratio of an EVF is more limited than an EVF and it shows you a shadowblocked up representation of what you may get on the final image.

Loading…

luminous-landscape.com

Optical on left, EVF on right.

 

[zenpmd]

I'm the OP. For anyone interested, here is my fledging site

www.pauldoranpictures.com

 

[Dustonian]

I won't leave canon if the 5D4 has no new sensor. I'm looking for a new camera to make my 6D a backup camera over the next year, and I went with the 6D because it's particularly great at high iso for events. The same criteria still applies for my new camera.

I'm more interested in a tilt screen and having focus peaking and other ML features in my new camera without having to hack the actual camera and void my warranty. However, it's not a deal breaker.

If I was shooting video, specializing in landscapes, studio, or large prints then if look into the a7r as a nice companion to my canon lenses, or maybe even switch to Nikon. For now thats not the case. I'm not brand bias, and I dont need the latest and greatest because there's always something new around the corner.

The only thing I'm leaving Canon for is a small mirrorless travel kit. The M3 isn't available in mu area so I'll be getting an a6000.

 

[bronxbombers4]

Will you leave Canon? I think I will have no choice!

yes

I'm already starting the move. (made tricky though by fact I got super-teles years ago when they are cheap, so the move is sort of expensive and I've stalled out a bit, maybe get a sony+adapter for the moment until more funds get built up)

Your a fool to sell out of a bunch of great lens's because you think Canon aren't up to scratch, show me any photo taken with any other system (that canon couldn't deliver) that would make me think otherwise and I'd be astounded.

I sometimes wonder if people on here have forgot what photography is about, a different camera brand won't make your pictures any better if they are not great pictures already!!

--
http://500px.com/Dan_Hunter

Just go into a forest with dappled sunlight and hit something where 2-3 more stops of DR would make a difference. Or say a post storm scenario where sunlight is beaming through cloud breaks and mists are super rapidly swirly all over. Grad ND won't help either case. Multi shot won't help the latter case and may or may not be able to help the first case (it will slow you down and be a pain at best and at worst make a mess if wind is blowing any branches and so on about at all).

Contrary to all the flippant statements it is NOT about DxO or sitting in a lab, people first started bringing up shadow banding and later general dynamic range because of things they noticed WHILE DOING REAL WORLD SHOOTING. It's not about counting decimal points in a lab, or DxO, or not understanding how to exposure or any of that other nonsense. It is about photography.

And it's not just some people who take no shots or a few shots of cats in the backyard. Ironically, most of the people who attack those who bring up DR for not going out and taking pics are the ones who have portfolios of like 12 pics of out of focus cats in their backyard (although this doesn't apply in your particular case) and nothing else while some asking for more DR have extensive and wide ranging portfolios from around the world covering everything from big time sports to landscapes.

And... just as many of those so vocal on the DR issue don't have portfolios period. So much for that. Yours is where?

1. it has nothing to do with it anyway, huge or small, good or bad portfolio

2. in the past I have, once or twice, posted some threads with like 200 shots in them before in response to things like this

3. i mostly try to keep my photography and self separate from tech talk since it lets one be more free to call it like you see it the more anonymous you are, plus it often ends up with messy name calling and I prefer to keep my photo stuff as separate from that as possible

A

 

[bronxbombers4]

Will you leave Canon? I think I will have no choice!

yes

I'm already starting the move. (made tricky though by fact I got super-teles years ago when they are cheap, so the move is sort of expensive and I've stalled out a bit, maybe get a sony+adapter for the moment until more funds get built up)

Your a fool to sell out of a bunch of great lens's because you think Canon aren't up to scratch, show me any photo taken with any other system (that canon couldn't deliver) that would make me think otherwise and I'd be astounded.

I sometimes wonder if people on here have forgot what photography is about, a different camera brand won't make your pictures any better if they are not great pictures already!!

--
http://500px.com/Dan_Hunter

Just go into a forest with dappled sunlight and hit something where 2-3 more stops of DR would make a difference.

in this case with strong backlit, and assuming you don't have any light colored ground / sand providing ambient reflection, you are looking at more than 2-3 extra EV.

not true, i do tons of that sort of shooting and often 2-3 more would be enough to help a lot

so in most cases, to do this right you have to bracket somehow. most forest scenes I'm bracketing over 5 EV and shaking my fist at canon for not giving me a wider spread.

Or say a post storm scenario where sunlight is beaming through cloud breaks and mists are super rapidly swirly all over.

that's really not that hard.

no?

Grad ND won't help either case. Multi shot won't help the latter case and may or may not be able to help the first case (it will slow you down and be a pain at best and at worst make a mess if wind is blowing any branches and so on about at all).

huh? have you used any modern software to do combining? this is easy sauce.

you missed the part about "things RAPIDLY SWIRLING"

Contrary to all the flippant statements it is NOT about DxO or sitting in a lab, people first started bringing up shadow banding

banding is something different. banding needs to be gone.

and it finally is

and yet those of us who brought it up and made a big deal until they took notice and fixed, got trashed, insulted, bashed, called names, many don't even post here or anywhere any more and i'm starting to join them

it's interesting that one guy who bashed us the most for daring to mention it when Canon was plagued by it, now that Canon fixed it in recent releases, now says that the fixed banding is an incredibly huge deal LOL

and later general dynamic range because of things they noticed WHILE DOING REAL WORLD SHOOTING.

actually most were contrived images. I've seen plenty of what some call "high DR scenes impossible to be shot on canon sensors" shot on 20D's even, 1Ds Mark II's .. by experienced photographers that knew how to get the most from their gear.

they didn't rely on sliders in lightroom to do their imagery.

yeah because they stuck to the ones only where it looked best to leave things dark and dramatic....

It's not about counting decimal points in a lab, or DxO, or not understanding how to exposure or any of that other nonsense. It is about photography.

actually it's not, because the scenarios you have mentioned have been shot on film, even lower DR sensors,etc. in the past.

no, mostly those shots were skipped and called bad or impossible lighting or only taken dring special circumstances where tricky overlay processing was then done or where the scenes was simple and grad ND worked or where it looked better to leave things dark in shadows, etc.

it's not the end of the world since there are a billions subjects and scenes you can shoot, amazing stuff, where it won't matter at all BUT all the same it's easy to find scenes where it does matter and it's certainly nicer to have the option to shoot those better if you can, it's like you are practically pleading with Canon to never make those an option though