How many mechanical shutter actuations should be on a new camera?

[Geo Wharton]

Brought home a new camera. Charged the battery (dead flat). Put on a lens. I clicked one frame. Then did the button dance to check my new camera's shutter count.

In the past I've gotten new cameras with 20 or so frames. My Pen F factory refurbished from Olympus had R=64 shutter count.

How many is enough for testing these new beasts?

Just looking into it...

 

[Guy Parsons]

Think the last time I saw a lifetime shutter cycles spec for top Oly/OM models it was up to 400k. That's a lot of cycles.

Rick

It used to be thought that consumer grade shutters were good for maybe something like 50K and pro grade shutters for 250K or more.

But real life gets in the way and the true life of focal plane shutters can vary by a factor of plus/minus 100% of any ratings.

 

[Skeeterbytes]

Think the last time I saw a lifetime shutter cycles spec for top Oly/OM models it was up to 400k. That's a lot of cycles.

Rick

It used to be thought that consumer grade shutters were good for maybe something like 50K and pro grade shutters for 250K or more.

But real life gets in the way and the true life of focal plane shutters can vary by a factor of plus/minus 100% of any ratings.

My presumption is the value is MTBF so a mean lifespan, rather than a prediction or guarantee. Guess we'd need to talk to Seiko. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

For sure mirrorless shutters are >> than SLRs with their shutter plus flippy mirror.

 

[baxters]

My refurbished PEN-F came in with 325 shutter actuations in 2020. I am up to 8903 mow.
.
I did buy a new OM5 about 6 weeks ago. It came in with 389 clicks, and I am sure the camera was brand new, given that seals were all intact.
.
It seems to me that when I bought my EM5-v1, the Olympus cameras were around 135 clicks when they arrived.

 

[cba_melbourne]

I bought 3 Olympus bodies brand new sealed in box. They all came with between 70 and just under 200 clicks.

I bought 4 GM cameras used, all aged around 5-6 years. They came with between 200 and 2500 clicks. Previous owners must have tested them first day, then kept them in the box.

For new cameras I think anything under 500 is considered normal. I could very well imagine that if a camera needs more clicks for testing, there was something wrong with it, and they would go through the trouble of resetting the counter at the factory to zero before packing it. So a zero count would worry me more, than a 500 count.

 

[Be More]

In my experience, my Olympus and OM cameras have had between 600-800 shutter count when bought new.

 

[Quailane]

Nikon and Canon do a reset, this I'm quite sure of. The above is the BS my then-boss used to spew when I was doing retail.

It's probably all to do with the audience they are selling to.

Ouch!

My refurbished PEN-F came in with 325 shutter actuations in 2020. I am up to 8903 mow.
.
I did buy a new OM5 about 6 weeks ago. It came in with 389 clicks, and I am sure the camera was brand new, given that seals were all intact.
.
It seems to me that when I bought my EM5-v1, the Olympus cameras were around 135 clicks when they arrived.

Remember that those cameras measure different things. Then Pen-F and EM5 i do not count only mechanical shutter actuations, but all photographs taken, regardless of shutter. The OM5 only counts the mechanical shutter actuations. I found this out after I checked my old Pen-F and I was surprised to find almost 23,000 shutter actuations, when the majority of the time I used the electronic shutter.

 

[drj3]

Nikon and Canon do a reset, this I'm quite sure of. The above is the BS my then-boss used to spew when I was doing retail.

It's probably all to do with the audience they are selling to.

Ouch!

My refurbished PEN-F came in with 325 shutter actuations in 2020. I am up to 8903 mow.
.
I did buy a new OM5 about 6 weeks ago. It came in with 389 clicks, and I am sure the camera was brand new, given that seals were all intact.
.
It seems to me that when I bought my EM5-v1, the Olympus cameras were around 135 clicks when they arrived.

Remember that those cameras measure different things. Then Pen-F and EM5 i do not count only mechanical shutter actuations, but all photographs taken, regardless of shutter. The OM5 only counts the mechanical shutter actuations. I found this out after I checked my old Pen-F and I was surprised to find almost 23,000 shutter actuations, when the majority of the time I used the electronic shutter.

The E-M1.2 and later E-M1s and both OM1s count mechanical shutter activations (MS) and all shutter activations (B) (mechanical and electronic) where stabilization was used.

 

[Geo Wharton]

Brought home a new camera. Charged the battery (dead flat). Put on a lens. I clicked one frame. Then did the button dance to check my new camera's shutter count.

In the past I've gotten new cameras with 20 or so frames. My Pen F factory refurbished from Olympus had R=64 shutter count.

How many is enough for testing these new beasts?

Just looking into it...

OM Systems appears to have 850 on the shutter count when new. That is what I had on my OM1, OM1.2, and now 2 OM3’s (the second OM3 because the first ended up with an issue and OMS replaced it with a new one) It is not a number I would worry about especially since I mostly use the electronic shutter anyway. YMMV

Thanks Bruce,

My new OM-3 had 850 mechanical shutter count also. I now know it really is new!

g.

 

[Geo Wharton]

Olympus originally would zero out the shutter count if you had the shutter replaced, but not for other repairs. They did zero out the shutter count on my E-5 when the shutter failed and was replaced, they did not zero out the shutter count on my E-510 when the IBIS failed and was repaired.

They stopped doing this, sometime after this with the E-M mirrorless cameras were released, they did not zero out the shutter count on my E-M1.1 when the shutter was replaced.

All my Olympus and OM Systems ILC cameras (all but one pre-ordered) had a fairly large number of shutter releases when new. I assume this is for testing and adjustment. I have ended up in the adjustment screens a couple of times when pressing the wrong keys to get to shutter counts.

I sent an E-M1.1 in for service at about one year old. The camera had been bought in the first of when the camera was released in early 2014. The shutter was replaced, and the count was reset to zero.

g.

 

[Geo Wharton]

Thank you all for the replies.

I feel much better now. The new camera is an OM-3. The shutter count was 850. That seemed very high from my past camera purchases. But it is the same number of clicks Bruce had on two seporate OM-3s.

 

[drj3]

Olympus originally would zero out the shutter count if you had the shutter replaced, but not for other repairs. They did zero out the shutter count on my E-5 when the shutter failed and was replaced, they did not zero out the shutter count on my E-510 when the IBIS failed and was repaired.

They stopped doing this, sometime after this with the E-M mirrorless cameras were released, they did not zero out the shutter count on my E-M1.1 when the shutter was replaced.

All my Olympus and OM Systems ILC cameras (all but one pre-ordered) had a fairly large number of shutter releases when new. I assume this is for testing and adjustment. I have ended up in the adjustment screens a couple of times when pressing the wrong keys to get to shutter counts.

I sent an E-M1.1 in for service at about one year old. The camera had been bought in the first of when the camera was released in early 2014. The shutter was replaced, and the count was reset to zero.

g.

Maybe they changed sometime after your repair and before mine was replaced in July 2016. It may also depend on what center repaired it. My E-M1.1 was repaired in the NJ repair center that OM Systems now uses.

 

[Quailane]

Remember that those cameras measure different things. Then Pen-F and EM5 i do not count only mechanical shutter actuations, but all photographs taken, regardless of shutter. The OM5 only counts the mechanical shutter actuations. I found this out after I checked my old Pen-F and I was surprised to find almost 23,000 shutter actuations, when the majority of the time I used the electronic shutter.

The E-M1.2 and later E-M1s and both OM1s count mechanical shutter activations (MS) and all shutter activations (B) (mechanical and electronic) where stabilization was used.

Ah, thanks! I didn't know what the 'B' was. Interesting that both OM-1 ii I received had 665 mechanical shutter actuations, but only 11 stabilization actuations.

The stabilization failed on my first one, so I returned it to the shop I bought it from (they warrantied it themselves for 1 year) and they gave me a new one. Maybe OM should do more stabilization testing.

 

[Geo Wharton]

Olympus originally would zero out the shutter count if you had the shutter replaced, but not for other repairs. They did zero out the shutter count on my E-5 when the shutter failed and was replaced, they did not zero out the shutter count on my E-510 when the IBIS failed and was repaired.

They stopped doing this, sometime after this with the E-M mirrorless cameras were released, they did not zero out the shutter count on my E-M1.1 when the shutter was replaced.

All my Olympus and OM Systems ILC cameras (all but one pre-ordered) had a fairly large number of shutter releases when new. I assume this is for testing and adjustment. I have ended up in the adjustment screens a couple of times when pressing the wrong keys to get to shutter counts.

I sent an E-M1.1 in for service at about one year old. The camera had been bought in the first of when the camera was released in early 2014. The shutter was replaced, and the count was reset to zero.

g.

Maybe they changed sometime after your repair and before mine was replaced in July 2016. It may also depend on what center repaired it. My E-M1.1 was repaired in the NJ repair center that OM Systems now uses.

I vaguely remember sending the camera to Texas, but I'm not completely sure.

--
To take a photo of what I saw should have been so simple...

 

[zotynimon]

How can I check my OM-1 II?

Crop from my archived web page....

This method first appeared in 2011 at https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/2941629

I have no OM-1ii so not sure about the step LCD Brightness as it seems to have changed somehow from the old days.

Avoid the steps in red otherwise you get a total reset of the camera and lose everything.

Thank you! I was able to do it.

In the spanner menu it is the Monitor Adjust option now.

 

[Guy Parsons]

Thank you! I was able to do it.

In the spanner menu it is the Monitor Adjust option now.

Here's the text of my old archived page hopefully suitably updated....

To see the real shot count of any Pen or OM-D camera use the method below. The file numbers can be misleading and can be reset so should not be used as a method of determining shot count. This Olympus service menu method is the only way to get the truth. Many numbers seen are not important to us so I only added descriptions for ones that matter and are important and that I could find names for. Method works for all M4/3 Pens and OM-D and 4/3 E-5 cameras. Naturally any internal replacement of components during repairs may see the numbers reset. Method first notified in 2011 by Hellowin here at the DPReview forum. Link to Panasonic method at bottom of this page.
A recent post at https://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/59429055 tells of the E-M5 Mk2 resetting the shutter counts when doing the firmware update from V1 to V2.3 - that sounds like a firmware error.

Many people seem to have problems with this method, it always works for me by using a slow and steady speed, do not be too quick with the button presses.

► Camera OFF
► Hold down MENU button and turn ON the camera
► Release MENU button and press MENU again to get to Menus
► Go to LCD Brightness Menu, that's in Spanner/Wrench Menu. Later cameras it is Monitor Adjust option. See note* below.
► Press RIGHT to show screen adjusters
► Press INFO and then press OK and on my E-PL1 this shows on screen....
OLYMPUS E-PL1
04 01 01 01
► Note: At this point a full and complete factory reset can be performed...
Hold MENU and OK together for several seconds
Eventually it will say "RESET OK" and prompt you to "PUSH OK" for the reset, and then instruct you to switch the power off afterwards.
It will then be as you took it out of the box and will need language selected.
Ignore this red text if simply looking for shot counts.
► Press in sequence UP/DOWN/LEFT/RIGHT/SHUTTER/UP and Page 1 info appears
► Variously then press RIGHT for Page 2, DOWN for Page 3, LEFT for Page 4 and UP again to get Page 1

What we are looking for is the information on Page 2 (press Right), on my E-PL1 it shows (in earlier days).....

R 002947 [total shot count, includes electronic shutter] - [Later bodies show MS for this item, and is mechanical shutter count only]
S 000194 [shot count with flash]
C 000000 [Not relevant in M4/3, this item was used on the later DSLRs to indicate the use of the cleaning mode that locks up mirror and opens the shutter]
U 001493 [ultrasonic wave cleaner count, equals turn on count plus pixel map count] -[may have changed count usage with E-M1 Mk2]
V 000000 [unknown]
B 002396 [total shot count using in-body stabilisation (IBIS)]
L 000000 [unknown]

On Page 4 is D: which is the damage code log, mine shows nothing and that is good. [E-M1 Mk2 shows a percentage, such as 90% for this item, which is the battery charge level]

Power off to reset the camera back to normal.

Note*: Added note for OM System OM-1 cameras - from a post by Michael Meissner - OM-1 - Note, it is essentially the same directions. The difference is there is a new screen for adjusting the brightness and gamma of the screen that brings up a square that you can navigate with the joystick or dials, compared to the old method that that had the two selectors as separate sliders. If you press the Info button (page 249 of the manual), it will go back to the old two slider system.

See John Foster's page at http://www.biofos.com/cornucop/hidden.html to keep up to date with information on investigating Olympus 4/3 and M4/3 camera hidden menus.
Also to see Panasonic G series shutter count go to http://www.apotelyt.com/photo-camera/panasonic-g-shutter-count
Also Olympus count again at https://www.apotelyt.com/camera-find/olympus-mft-shutter-count