Given the fact that for more than 100 years exposure has been known to be the light energy pet unit area as projected by a lens on a light-sensitive medium - glass plate, film negative, digital sensor - exactly how do you think the sensitivity of that medium to the light projected on it alters exposure?
Interesting nonsequitor.Because photographic triangle is an elegant concept which describes fundamental relationships between motion blur, dof and noise in an image under constant lighting (i.e. it doesn't explain flash). It doesn't matter whether you shoot raw or JPEG, film or digital. It just works. When you shoot in available light and want to get deeper dof, you either have to accept more noise in your image or risk more motion blur / camera shake. There is no free lunch.Must we endure yet another thread-derailing sidebar debate on the long-settled questions of what exposure is and how it's determined?
We've had the answers for more than 100 years and no amount of revisionism is going to change them. This insistence that exposure is image lightness (it's not) and ISO is an exposure setting (it isn't) serves no purpose other than to dissuade folks who come to this forum for informed answers to basic questions from learning how to realize the full potential of their cameras.
It's genuinely saddening to see the misguided, misleading so-called exposure triangle constantly being pushed, here of all forums
Similarly, want to freeze motion more? Again, no free lunch, will have to either lose some dof of accept more noise.
You just took a photo in available lighting and it looks too noisy. Well, you can make it less noisy if you open aperture (less dof) or use a slower shutter (more motion blur). No free lunch, again.
The fact that the third side of the triangle is commonly labelled "ISO" rather than "SNR" is because most people shoot JPEG and for them there is a one-to-one relationship between the ISO setting and the noise in the image. "The lightness triangle" is quantitatively correct. When your camera shows the live histogram, it uses the same APEX maths that the "lightness triangle" is based on. If you don't believe in it, stop using the histogram and turn off live zebra warnings. They both take the ISO setting into account.
It is frustrating when people got hang up on a single definition and cannot see the forest for the trees.
This has been covered in detail countless times. Unfortunately, facts have never been an obstacle preventing some people from selling a fairy tale about how cameras work to those coming here for guidance.I agree with you Dem of course.Because photographic triangle is an elegant concept which describes fundamental relationships between motion blur, dof and noise in an image under constant lighting (i.e. it doesn't explain flash). It doesn't matter whether you shoot raw or JPEG, film or digital. It just works. When you shoot in available light and want to get deeper dof, you either have to accept more noise in your image or risk more motion blur / camera shake. There is no free lunch.Must we endure yet another thread-derailing sidebar debate on the long-settled questions of what exposure is and how it's determined?
We've had the answers for more than 100 years and no amount of revisionism is going to change them. This insistence that exposure is image lightness (it's not) and ISO is an exposure setting (it isn't) serves no purpose other than to dissuade folks who come to this forum for informed answers to basic questions from learning how to realize the full potential of their cameras.
It's genuinely saddening to see the misguided, misleading so-called exposure triangle constantly being pushed, here of all forums
Similarly, want to freeze motion more? Again, no free lunch, will have to either lose some dof of accept more noise.
You just took a photo in available lighting and it looks too noisy. Well, you can make it less noisy if you open aperture (less dof) or use a slower shutter (more motion blur). No free lunch, again.
The fact that the third side of the triangle is commonly labelled "ISO" rather than "SNR" is because most people shoot JPEG and for them there is a one-to-one relationship between the ISO setting and the noise in the image. "The lightness triangle" is quantitatively correct. When your camera shows the live histogram, it uses the same APEX maths that the "lightness triangle" is based on. If you don't believe in it, stop using the histogram and turn off live zebra warnings. They both take the ISO setting into account.
It is frustrating when people got hang up on a single definition and cannot see the forest for the trees.
I understand that people may not like the exposure triangle but instead of simply expressing their opinion they launch missiles toward the ET.
Facts are this is a ternary diagram which illustrates a relation between these 3 parameters. This relation is correct and it explains for instance the auto exposure modes.This has been covered in detail countless times. Unfortunately, facts have never been an obstacle preventing some people from selling a fairy tale about how cameras work to those coming here for guidance.I agree with you Dem of course.Because photographic triangle is an elegant concept which describes fundamental relationships between motion blur, dof and noise in an image under constant lighting (i.e. it doesn't explain flash). It doesn't matter whether you shoot raw or JPEG, film or digital. It just works. When you shoot in available light and want to get deeper dof, you either have to accept more noise in your image or risk more motion blur / camera shake. There is no free lunch.Must we endure yet another thread-derailing sidebar debate on the long-settled questions of what exposure is and how it's determined?
We've had the answers for more than 100 years and no amount of revisionism is going to change them. This insistence that exposure is image lightness (it's not) and ISO is an exposure setting (it isn't) serves no purpose other than to dissuade folks who come to this forum for informed answers to basic questions from learning how to realize the full potential of their cameras.
It's genuinely saddening to see the misguided, misleading so-called exposure triangle constantly being pushed, here of all forums
Similarly, want to freeze motion more? Again, no free lunch, will have to either lose some dof of accept more noise.
You just took a photo in available lighting and it looks too noisy. Well, you can make it less noisy if you open aperture (less dof) or use a slower shutter (more motion blur). No free lunch, again.
The fact that the third side of the triangle is commonly labelled "ISO" rather than "SNR" is because most people shoot JPEG and for them there is a one-to-one relationship between the ISO setting and the noise in the image. "The lightness triangle" is quantitatively correct. When your camera shows the live histogram, it uses the same APEX maths that the "lightness triangle" is based on. If you don't believe in it, stop using the histogram and turn off live zebra warnings. They both take the ISO setting into account.
It is frustrating when people got hang up on a single definition and cannot see the forest for the trees.
I understand that people may not like the exposure triangle but instead of simply expressing their opinion they launch missiles toward the ET.
I don't know which manuals you've been reading but the Canon, Fujifilm, Nikon and Sony manuals I have all specifically state that aperture (f-stop) and shutter speed are the camera settings that determine exposure.
Except, it doesn't. It represents and is used to teach a mythical reality in which ISO, shutter speed, and aperture determine exposure; in which ISO alters the sensor's ability to collect light; and in which ISO is the source of noise in photos.
Yes, you can set most cameras to to target a specific exposure. However, they don’t use a triangle. Once you select a fixed ISO, there are only two parameters for the camera to alter.
No.
Then you and I disagree as ISO is as important as the other two. That's why it's a triangle: they interact with each other and affect each other.From the exposure triangle, ISO is by far the least important parameter. I don't say not learn about it, but just simplify it first for beginners.Setting it on Auto ISO isn’t going to tell you how they work together, and what happens when one or more values are wrong.I can't help myself, it sounds so 1990 to me
I would say set autoISO and don't care about it yet. Agree with the playing and testing with the gear.
There's also minimum shutter speed, which is key if one is shooting action. Otherwise, the camera can get to a point where it lowers the shutter speed to get a proper exposure, if you're already at the maximum you set for ISO.
Sam
Aperture and shutter speed are your primary creative controls. Select an f-stop (aperture) to control the depth of field in your photo: how much of the scene will appear to be in focus. Select a shutter speed to determine how movement in the scene will be rendered. Motion will be some degree of frozen or blurred.
Aperture and shutter speed also control exposure: the light energy per unit area projected by the lens upon the sensor. Exposure and the surface area of the sensor determine how much total light the camera has to work with. Total light goes a long way toward deciding qualities like dynamic range, noise visibility and color fidelity in a photo.
The general approach I recommend photographers adopt is to use the largest aperture (smallest f-stop number) that produces an adequate depth of field and the slowest shutter speed that acceptably renders movement in the frame without blowing out important highlights.
If you embrace this approach, you'll optimize exposure within the creative constraints of the photo you want to make. That's usually going to produce a pleasing image.
So, how do you start? I recommend starting by deciding which of those two creative/exposure controls is the highest priority for the photo being made. Depth of field (aperture) is probably the highest priority if you're photographing a landscape or making a portrait. Shutter speed is probably the highest priority if you're photographing action...objects or people in motion.
Once you've identified that setting and dialed it in, the other setting can be chosen based on the dual goals of achieving a desired creative look and optimizing exposure.
Finally, there's ISO. ISO is the setting we use to manage the lightness of the photo. ISO doesn't control how much light the camera works with so, it's not an exposure setting. It's used to ensure the camera processes and outputs a photo having a pleasing lightness.
ISO is also useful as an indicator of exposure. It's the proverbial canary in the coal mine. It doesn't make the air unsafe to breathe but when the canary drops, you know it's time to get out! ISO doesn't make photos noisy but when ISO climbs too high, you know an adjustment to f-stop or shutter speed is needed to increase exposure and make a photo having an acceptable amount of noise.
Which of those two settings should you adjust if the exposure at your preferred settings is too weak? As a general rule, I'd recommend starting with the lower priority setting. Keep your creative goals in mind while making the adjustment.
If you've selected the widest aperture that will deliver an acceptable depth of field for a landscape photo, slow the shutter speed to increase exposure. Most landscapes are static scenes. Slowing the shutter speed won't introduce motion blur, provided the camera is on a tripod or some form of stabilization is in use.
If you've chosen the slowest shutter speed that will adequately freeze movement in the frame, open the lens aperture to allow more light to get through to the sensor. If you're photographing sports, a shallow depth of field helps isolate the subject and makes the background less of a distraction.
There will eventually come a time when you've chosen the widest usable f-stop and the slowest usable shutter speed and exposure will still be too weak. The photo being made will be too noisy. What do you do? You get creative
Sometimes, the photo we want to make isn't doable with the available light. If that's the case, it may seem your only option is to pack up and go home. There is another option: make a different photo. This is part of a person's growth as a photographer. The ability to recognize when there's not enough light for the photo we want to make and to adapt, to make a different photo that is doable with the available light, is as useful a tool to have in your back pocket as any. It empowers you to make a photo under almost any conditions.
Something you'll learn pretty quickly is that experience informs future decisions. I know the f-stop and shutter speed settings I'll use in just about any lighting to photograph wildlife, birds, landscapes, people, sports and other subjects before I leave my house. I know these settings because I've made thousands of photos of each of those subjects in a wide range of light conditions. That experience - including successes and mistakes - has taught me what works and what doesn't. Trust that the same will happen for you. It just takes time and reps.
Good luck and enjoy getting to know your new camera.
Generally speaking, you want to expose the sensor with as much light as you can. If an aperture of f/5.6 meets your needs, don’t use a smaller aperture, such as f/8. Same with shutter. Once you decide the slowest shutter speed that meets your needs, you don’t want to use a faster one, unless it will pass your ISO less than 100.Thank you for the reply, presumably the reason you want the lowest F stop number that produces adequate depth of field is that as that number gets larger you need to use a slower shutter speed which then brings blur into the photo?Aperture and shutter speed are your primary creative controls. Select an f-stop (aperture) to control the depth of field in your photo: how much of the scene will appear to be in focus. Select a shutter speed to determine how movement in the scene will be rendered. Motion will be some degree of frozen or blurred.
Aperture and shutter speed also control exposure: the light energy per unit area projected by the lens upon the sensor. Exposure and the surface area of the sensor determine how much total light the camera has to work with. Total light goes a long way toward deciding qualities like dynamic range, noise visibility and color fidelity in a photo.
The general approach I recommend photographers adopt is to use the largest aperture (smallest f-stop number) that produces an adequate depth of field and the slowest shutter speed that acceptably renders movement in the frame without blowing out important highlights.
If you embrace this approach, you'll optimize exposure within the creative constraints of the photo you want to make. That's usually going to produce a pleasing image.
So, how do you start? I recommend starting by deciding which of those two creative/exposure controls is the highest priority for the photo being made. Depth of field (aperture) is probably the highest priority if you're photographing a landscape or making a portrait. Shutter speed is probably the highest priority if you're photographing action...objects or people in motion.
Once you've identified that setting and dialed it in, the other setting can be chosen based on the dual goals of achieving a desired creative look and optimizing exposure.
Finally, there's ISO. ISO is the setting we use to manage the lightness of the photo. ISO doesn't control how much light the camera works with so, it's not an exposure setting. It's used to ensure the camera processes and outputs a photo having a pleasing lightness.
ISO is also useful as an indicator of exposure. It's the proverbial canary in the coal mine. It doesn't make the air unsafe to breathe but when the canary drops, you know it's time to get out! ISO doesn't make photos noisy but when ISO climbs too high, you know an adjustment to f-stop or shutter speed is needed to increase exposure and make a photo having an acceptable amount of noise.
Which of those two settings should you adjust if the exposure at your preferred settings is too weak? As a general rule, I'd recommend starting with the lower priority setting. Keep your creative goals in mind while making the adjustment.
If you've selected the widest aperture that will deliver an acceptable depth of field for a landscape photo, slow the shutter speed to increase exposure. Most landscapes are static scenes. Slowing the shutter speed won't introduce motion blur, provided the camera is on a tripod or some form of stabilization is in use.
If you've chosen the slowest shutter speed that will adequately freeze movement in the frame, open the lens aperture to allow more light to get through to the sensor. If you're photographing sports, a shallow depth of field helps isolate the subject and makes the background less of a distraction.
There will eventually come a time when you've chosen the widest usable f-stop and the slowest usable shutter speed and exposure will still be too weak. The photo being made will be too noisy. What do you do? You get creative
Sometimes, the photo we want to make isn't doable with the available light. If that's the case, it may seem your only option is to pack up and go home. There is another option: make a different photo. This is part of a person's growth as a photographer. The ability to recognize when there's not enough light for the photo we want to make and to adapt, to make a different photo that is doable with the available light, is as useful a tool to have in your back pocket as any. It empowers you to make a photo under almost any conditions.
Something you'll learn pretty quickly is that experience informs future decisions. I know the f-stop and shutter speed settings I'll use in just about any lighting to photograph wildlife, birds, landscapes, people, sports and other subjects before I leave my house. I know these settings because I've made thousands of photos of each of those subjects in a wide range of light conditions. That experience - including successes and mistakes - has taught me what works and what doesn't. Trust that the same will happen for you. It just takes time and reps.
Good luck and enjoy getting to know your new camera.
Thanks! It seems to me that it WOULD teach someone quite a bit, not only on getting a "good exposure", but also on WHY it's a good exposure, as well as how to choose the shutter speed and aperture values you need to get the result you want. And yes, with digital, the cost is minimal (time spent to do the exercise and to see the results on the computer), but the payout could be quite high.
You're welcome! I've seen some shoot as slow as 1/60th or so to get full-circle prop blurs! I've never quite been able to do that due to lighting, as well as mastering panning with an aircraft flying past you at high-ish speeds with such a slow shutter speed! Panning is a skill in and of itself, and takes a LOT of practice! I've done pretty well at it for bicycles and even motocross motorcycles, but not so well for planes!
