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Has Nikon Lost it?

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Wow, nine months ago, you posted you were looking for a DSLR, but did not really understand what is available. Now you've purchased two.....

I'm impressed!

I guess they were both huge disappointments...

Post some images, and tell us all what went wrong rather then just stepping all over Nikon!

Ron
Jim Nichoills said:
Actually Ron I have owned two DSLR's, so I guess i am in the game.

Jim
Click to expand...
 
Ermac,

yours was a post I really like to read. Unfortunately digital is still evolving between sensors, megapixels and software and new products can change our workflow. Like the D70 and the 500 sync: it means that we have a more powerful tool to shoot outdoors and take better pictures with an efficient fill flash for candids during daylight events for example.

Brand loyalty is over (in my opinion),
-------------------------------------------------

now we can get whatever comes closer to what we need. Lenses? How many lenses we (honestly) need? and... how many lenses we really shoot with? :)
 
Actually, That was a post for fixed lens compact that I could use for close range photogrammetry. Fixed focal lendth digital cameras are more reliable to callibrate ( in effect to convert into metric cameras) for this purpose. You are right, at the time I didn't have a great understanding of the low end of the market. I have since purchased a Canon A300 for that application.The first DSLR was a Minolta RD175. It actually predates this site so I guess I've been in digital for a while. By the way I liked your photo and particularly the message on the building.

Jim
Ron Frank said:
I'm impressed!

I guess they were both huge disappointments...

Post some images, and tell us all what went wrong rather then just
stepping all over Nikon!

Ron
Jim Nichoills said:
Actually Ron I have owned two DSLR's, so I guess i am in the game.

Jim
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
From the looks of the factory photos, this "tight mouth" D70 project has been in the works for some time. An undertacking of this scope does not

happen overnite. What is important will be the quality of the images, not the speed to market!

Any opinion as to suitability of my Nikon Legacy equipment to be used on the D70?
24mm and 35mm f2.8 AI
55mm f2.8 macro AI
80-200mm F4 AI
SB-16 flash?
How do you tell AI from AIS?
Jim Nichoills said:
Nikon seem to have become followers and not leaders. Promised
lenses have been delayed. Prime lens prices are astronmical. the
D70 (when it appears) seems to have been rushed out as a reaction
to the Canon 300D. But worst of all, they still don't have a full
frame DSLR (this is almost commercially criminal). Nikon, when are
you going to get your act together?

Jim
Click to expand...
 
If look at the the canon 10D forum you will find the same senseless and silly ramblings.
One example a person wrote:
"10D owners must read"

the view finder on his NEW 10D was out of focus, well that was the wrong thing to say...they came down on him like you can not believe (just read some of it) they accused him of everything you can imagine.

Meanwhile others wrote in that had the same problem, did that stop it.......NOOO, the hammering continued with total disregard to the other owners that confirmed the same problem.

I'm interested in the D70 as well as the comparable canon, there has to be an opportunity for perspective buyers to voice an opinion or ask a question without things getting out of hand.

I posted a question recently "will the D70 blow away the canon 10D?" on the 10D forum, unlike the above example, I got some GREAT input from the canon people.
That's the way it should be, don't you think?

Regards
 
Well Jim you're allowed your opinion, but I disagree. Nikon is reading the market and their own profit line. As they have always done they will create new equipment when the profit margins are acceptible and not before. Creating cameras cost money and Nikon does their best to get it right.

Canon follows a different line of thinking in that they will rush out numerous models allowed by a very generous profit margin of the last several years. Canon had a 24.8% rise in net income the past 4th quarter over 2002's fourth quarter (Canon USA showed a 44.6% jump in net last year!). They have recorded significant gains three years in a row now and look for it to continue for several years now. This kind of cash flow makes it easier to pump out even more cameras.

I cannot find Nikon's net for the last couple of years, but it is sure to be less, so they will not be dumping a lot of money into new projects, but they will make sure the projects they invest in are worth it.

Both attitudes work well and both companies have their own agenda. Either slow and steady or fast and furious will get the job done. Canon will give you more choices while Nikon will put out fewer but still great quality. Either company changing strategies could spell disaster because of the long term plans they have layed out, but both have long term plans that will keep them the main producers of digital cameras.
 
In the long run, there are reasonable people at both forums and interacting is actually a pleasant experience. It is always the same whiners at both forums that create the turmoil. Gee Bee is actually a good contributor to both forums and backs up his opinions with reasonable information whether you agree with him or not.
sr3 said:
If look at the the canon 10D forum you will find the same senseless
and silly ramblings.
One example a person wrote:
Click to expand...
"10D owners must read"
sr3 said:
the view finder on his NEW 10D was out of focus, well that was the
wrong thing to say...they came down on him like you can not believe
(just read some of it) they accused him of everything you can
imagine.
Meanwhile others wrote in that had the same problem, did that stop
it.......NOOO, the hammering continued with total disregard to the
other owners that confirmed the same problem.

I'm interested in the D70 as well as the comparable canon, there
has to be an opportunity for perspective buyers to voice an opinion
or ask a question without things getting out of hand.

I posted a question recently "will the D70 blow away the canon
10D?" on the 10D forum, unlike the above example, I got some GREAT
input from the canon people.
That's the way it should be, don't you think?

Regards
Click to expand...
--
Larry Gleason
 
mikolly said:
Well Jim you're allowed your opinion, but I disagree. Nikon is
reading the market and their own profit line. As they have always
done they will create new equipment when the profit margins are
acceptible and not before. Creating cameras cost money and Nikon
does their best to get it right.

Canon follows a different line of thinking in that they will rush
out numerous models allowed by a very generous profit margin of the
last several years. Canon had a 24.8% rise in net income the past
4th quarter over 2002's fourth quarter (Canon USA showed a 44.6%
jump in net last year!). They have recorded significant gains three
years in a row now and look for it to continue for several years
now. This kind of cash flow makes it easier to pump out even more
cameras.

I cannot find Nikon's net for the last couple of years, but it is
sure to be less, so they will not be dumping a lot of money into
new projects, but they will make sure the projects they invest in
are worth it.

Both attitudes work well and both companies have their own agenda.
Either slow and steady or fast and furious will get the job done.
Canon will give you more choices while Nikon will put out fewer but
still great quality. Either company changing strategies could spell
disaster because of the long term plans they have layed out, but
both have long term plans that will keep them the main producers of
digital cameras.
Click to expand...
Thanks mikolly,

For info on Nikons financials see this thread from Steven Simpson

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=7601739

It seems Nikon is coming out of temporary tough period and I suspect you are right that they don't have the same resources as Canon at the moment. As I posted earlier I think my vision may have been too limited (in this case to the high end pro market). Nikon is performing well in other segments ( those mostly affecting the people on this forum), and soon the low cost DSLR. I look forward to a resurgence in their financial position with the opportunities that presents including further development of higher end Full Frame DSLR's.

Jim
 
Shheeeesh, I only come to the Nikon forum once in a while as I own an S2 and spend most of my time over in Fujiland.... but every time I do come over here I see your posts talking trash. Don't you have anything better to do.. like a life? Do you waste all of your time extolling the virtues of Canon? Are you a Canon shill being paid off to do this?

Go away, even I, who rarely visit here are getting tired of you! You never have anything positive to say. If you hate Nikon so much, why do you spend all your time here?!?!

Regards,
Sean
Ger Bee said:
DoF said:
I am just so tired of hearing the dame drivel flow from your
keyboard. Your lack of positive contribution to this forum speaks
very loudly.
Click to expand...
.... so speak up for YOUR chosen product then.

I do, very clearly.

Merely doing the hound-dog on it will not convince anyone else that
YOU are happy with YOUR gear. Your post (here) just comes across as
sour grapes and possible jealousy.

Where we came in: telling people to buy Canon is not very
encouraging to anyone interested in Nikon gear, people often just
scan the headlines, I don’t think even sarcastic posts like ‘I hate
my …….!’ Is of any benefit to the casual reader, as they often will
not get the sarcasm.

If you like your Nikon gear, say so, I love my Canon gear.

In this splinter I have said nothing negative about Nikon, I asked
people not to tell others to buy Canon and you to say something
constructive, like ‘I support Ger Bee on this one, we should be
more positive in our OWN outlook!”

Cheers ... ;)))
Click to expand...
 
Did I mention the D2h?

This is an action photography class leader. No following here...
 
He blames Nikon for everything that was ever wrong with his photography so how you can say he's a good contributor?

I didn't like the fact that I didn't have as much control over the tonality of the 10D images but I never blamed Canon for the pictures that I took!
Larry Gleason said:
sr3 said:
If look at the the canon 10D forum you will find the same senseless
and silly ramblings.
One example a person wrote:
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
"10D owners must read"
Larry Gleason said:
Larry Gleason said:
the view finder on his NEW 10D was out of focus, well that was the
wrong thing to say...they came down on him like you can not believe
(just read some of it) they accused him of everything you can
imagine.
Meanwhile others wrote in that had the same problem, did that stop
it.......NOOO, the hammering continued with total disregard to the
other owners that confirmed the same problem.

I'm interested in the D70 as well as the comparable canon, there
has to be an opportunity for perspective buyers to voice an opinion
or ask a question without things getting out of hand.

I posted a question recently "will the D70 blow away the canon
10D?" on the 10D forum, unlike the above example, I got some GREAT
input from the canon people.
That's the way it should be, don't you think?

Regards
Click to expand...
--
Larry Gleason
Click to expand...
--

'The only real currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with each other when we're being uncool.' -- Cameron Crowe
 
Over the years people have looked at business models and studies have been done on the phases of a products life cycle...

The two phases are the Planning and Development phase and the Service and Support phase...

It has been said that one model (say Toyota) dumps excess in to the planning phase (It took Toyota 10 years of planning to release the first Lexus) in an effort to minimize the Service phase...

The other model doesn't put as much in to the planning (say Ford) phase and ends up dumping considerably more in to the service phase...

Now it has been my observation that there are fewer complaints about equipment failure or operational issues in the Nikon forums then there are in the Canon forums... However it is also very clear that there aren't as many Nikon cameras released over the same period (say 6 months) as their are Canon cameras...

Basically Canon uses the MS model of Marketing and Fixes and Nikon uses the Toyota model of well planned out products that are slow to market. Personally I have to say the older that I get the more I appreciate a job done right the first time!

--

'The only real currency in this bankrupt world is what we share with each other when we're being uncool.' -- Cameron Crowe
 
the way a post in initiated.

If the poster framed his question or opinion in a constructive and polite way, the thread will attract more people who have useful responses to contirbute. But when a thread like this one is posted, many visitors here get annoyed and sometimes insulted. This is especially so when you go to a forum for Nikon and start to say how other brands have got this and that and then condemn the forum's brand. Pretty much the same as when a stranger comes into your house and tells you that his girlfriend is so much better looking than your wife.

If a poster is seriously concerned about Nikon not coming out with a product with certain features or specs, then he should frame his question or concern as such and ask others here for their opinions or takes on the situation. Don't start running down a brand or model because, it evokes emotions from users. Worse still is when a poster who runs down a product is a non-user.

By all means check and investigate with others about a product, it's inherent problems or shortcomings, its good side etc but until you have used and fully understood a product, one has no moral authority to deride a product.

Most times such a thread distract all of us and waste a lot of bandwidth. We could have helped a few more newbies with their D100 or D2H etc instead of this useless spiral. It would even have been more eventful if we were looking at some photos and contributing comments/ideas.

If you agree with me, just say "YES" (n/t) and save everyone the time.

Regards,

Henry Goh
 
No, Nikon doesn't need FF. It needs more pixels. If Nikon can squeeze 11m MP in D2x, that stil is 1.5x, and good image quality, Nikon would be instantly on top.
syckklam said:
this is why i stick to samples and galleries... there's never a
gear war. its about what matters: the photographs. who cares,
really? full frame, half frame, no frame; the pictures are the
product, not the camera it was shot with.
  • peter
--
http://symplistic.net
Click to expand...
--
baruth
 
Iliah Borg said:
baruth said:
No, Nikon doesn't need FF. It needs more pixels. If Nikon can
squeeze 11m MP in D2x,
Click to expand...
Why 11Mp? Why not sharp 8Mp and good dynamic range?

--
no text
Click to expand...
I agree with you Illah. If processed correctly, an 8mp RAW will be quite sufficient for large printing.

More importantly is to have out-of-camera sharpness and good dynamic range.

Illah, on another matter, how do I get my Epson 4000 profiled? I have the Eye-One monitor so would it mean I should go back to Gretag Macbeth for the Eye One Photo?

Thank you.

email me if convenient: [email protected]
 
Henry Goh said:
on another matter, how do I get my Epson 4000 profiled? I
have the Eye-One monitor so would it mean I should go back to
Gretag Macbeth for the Eye One Photo?
Click to expand...
Yes, or you have an option to ask somebody to profile it for you. All you would need in this case is to print the target and send it to the person. Actually, creating a good profile is not a straightforward process.
--
no text
 
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