Has Nikon Lost it?

[james-montana]

Canon set 300D production levels at 70,000/month last year when it was introduced and there are still stocking problems with some retailers.

http://www.steves-digicams.com/2003_reviews/300d.html

Their 10D is running 30,000/month.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0306/03062501oly90000.asp

Add in the higher-end models (1DS, 1D, 1DMkII coming) and you're looking at about 108,000/month. If Nikon can produce and sell 70,000 D70's a month that will be the boost they need right now. But if they are outsourcing production to Sanyo for the D70 (anyone know?) then there may be problems.

http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/040209/tech_nikon_4.html

-James

....are more than Canon's hole DSLR production.

BTW the 1DS is produced at 2000 units a months.

Walter

 

[pengch]

Nikon seem to have become followers and not leaders. Promised
lenses have been delayed. Prime lens prices are astronmical. the
D70 (when it appears) seems to have been rushed out as a reaction
to the Canon 300D. But worst of all, they still don't have a full
frame DSLR (this is almost commercially criminal). Nikon, when are
you going to get your act together?

Jim

Hi, Jim,

I think nikon would not sell you $8000 dslr to use only 2 or 3 years.

you can get a mamiya rb 67 on ebay for only $500, and it is much better and bigger image then 1ds, isn't it?

leaf-mamiya 645 afd ad said 22mp! for only $7000!(on a magezine ad)

canon lost war to nikon many times, just wait and see. it is only last year.

regard

 

[Larry Gleason]

Yup, seems to be the way it is. I don't think that most folks even mind a discussion involving differing points of view. Although not said, I believe that most of the objections are really directed at whining. That grates on people's nerves more than the subject at hand.

I am one that has stated that my D1X does everything that I need it
to (not on this stupid thread). But not in the context that you
imply. I look forward to a D2X but my D1X has not died all of a
sudden because newer models from the different companies have been
released. It is still a fantastic model and will serve me well
until such time that I upgrade on my time schedule (then it will be
still in use with a different lens as a backup).

So much complacency and defensiveness of what Nikon currently
offers in most of the above posts, it really is no wonder that they
haven't felt spurred to release anything of real note for the
professional in a couple years. With so many staunch defenders
along the lines of "the D1X does everything I need it to", why
would they ever bother to come out with something better?

BTW the 1DS is produced at 2000 units a months.

Walter

Nikon seem to have become followers and not leaders. Promised
lenses have been delayed. Prime lens prices are astronmical. the
D70 (when it appears) seems to have been rushed out as a reaction
to the Canon 300D. But worst of all, they still don't have a full
frame DSLR (this is almost commercially criminal). Nikon, when are
you going to get your act together?

Jim

--
Larry Gleason

--
Larry Gleason

 

[Ron Frank]

Based on what I've seen, you do not EVEN own a digital SLR?

Yet your comments on what is better/worst abound.

What is up with that?

Nothing wrong with film, but if you want to judge digital get in the game.



Digital is MUCH more about workflow and learning a camera than just the standard film "what fiilm do I shoot" question.

Unlike film there is a boat load of comments about digital on DSLR. Just like with film, Canon has HARDLEY won any war. Just a few years ago Nikon lead the digital age, now Canon seems to have an advantage, but at a big pricetag.

Get in the game or shut up!!!

Ron

Nikon seem to have become followers and not leaders. Promised
lenses have been delayed. Prime lens prices are astronmical. the
D70 (when it appears) seems to have been rushed out as a reaction
to the Canon 300D. But worst of all, they still don't have a full
frame DSLR (this is almost commercially criminal). Nikon, when are
you going to get your act together?

Jim

 

[David Perry64114]

Yet your comments on what is better/worst abound.

What is up with that?

Nothing wrong with film, but if you want to judge digital get in
the game.



Digital is MUCH more about workflow and learning a camera than just
the standard film "what fiilm do I shoot" question.

Unlike film there is a boat load of comments about digital on DSLR.
Just like with film, Canon has HARDLEY won any war. Just a few
years ago Nikon lead the digital age, now Canon seems to have an
advantage, but at a big pricetag.

Get in the game or shut up!!!

Ron

Nikon seem to have become followers and not leaders. Promised
lenses have been delayed. Prime lens prices are astronmical. the
D70 (when it appears) seems to have been rushed out as a reaction
to the Canon 300D. But worst of all, they still don't have a full
frame DSLR (this is almost commercially criminal). Nikon, when are
you going to get your act together?

Jim

 

[j A b]

are you mildly retarded or completely?
--
living life one shot at a time

San Diego, CA

 

[Ron Frank]

GerBee's photgraphy is about as insiring as as a wet rag.

He does not post much but Nikon vs. Canon flame bate, but is an expert

GeeBee, post some image of how Canon has changed your life..

Ron

Yet your comments on what is better/worst abound.

What is up with that?

Nothing wrong with film, but if you want to judge digital get in
the game.



Digital is MUCH more about workflow and learning a camera than just
the standard film "what fiilm do I shoot" question.

Unlike film there is a boat load of comments about digital on DSLR.
Just like with film, Canon has HARDLEY won any war. Just a few
years ago Nikon lead the digital age, now Canon seems to have an
advantage, but at a big pricetag.

Get in the game or shut up!!!

Ron

Nikon seem to have become followers and not leaders. Promised
lenses have been delayed. Prime lens prices are astronmical. the
D70 (when it appears) seems to have been rushed out as a reaction
to the Canon 300D. But worst of all, they still don't have a full
frame DSLR (this is almost commercially criminal). Nikon, when are
you going to get your act together?

Jim

 

[Ger Bee]

are you mildly retarded or completely?
--

.... My camera is better than yours, and think I am mildly retarded.

Have you any idea what people think of Nikon owners with that statement?

I particularly notice you have not denied any of the allegations, very revealing also.

Have a nice day.

 

[Ger Bee]

.... I don’t even have to say anything against Nikon to put the fear of Canon into most Nikon owners.

All I’ve said on this thread is to be more supportive of your camera choice, too many of you seem to give in too easily and resort to personal attacks immediately, meaning that you have no counter arguments and that it is obviously a touchy subject.

My D1x page:

http://homepage.eircom.net/~gerardbee/Digital/Dday/dix.html

 

[MarkLe]

I'm getting a D70 to complete my 1Ds/10D (because it looks good and lighter). Another 1Ds/1D Canon user I know is looking at the D1x (also because of the $500 rebate).
I went from D100 to Canon few months ago and now I'm getting another Nikon...
I mean, can't we just stop this nonsense?

can we just talk about the camera we need instead of debating on brand name first?

 

[Michael Southerland]

Nikon seem to have become followers and not leaders.

Both brands follow and lead at different times and in different
areas. Canon are leading at present in some areas, but that's not
the end of the world for you Nikon folk (Try to find a decent
wide-angle lens for a 1D/10D!). I seriously considered switching to
Nikon in 2000, to get my hands on a D1 when Canon had nothing like
it. If you switch brands every time something new comes out then
you will go bankrupt!

Prime lens prices are astronmical.

Prime lens prices are astronomical for any major brand. If you want
pro glass, you have to pay pro prices. Take it or leave it.

the
D70 (when it appears) seems to have been rushed out as a reaction
to the Canon 300D.

Doesn't seem to be rushed to me, but I haven't looked at one yet,
let alone touched it. The D70 is a prime example of the lead
changing I mentioned above. It PULVERIZES the 300D for specs, but
if I had a 300D and a big collection of Canon glass I wouldn't be
jumping ship for it. Why? because sooner or later Canon will
release a better camera. Then Nikon will release a better
camera...... ad-infinitem. You change for a system, not a single
body. Both systems have strong plus and minus. Pick the one that
suits you.

But worst of all, they still don't have a full
frame DSLR (this is almost commercially criminal).

So what? Are you in the market for a $8000 body? Canon have sold a
dismally low number of 1Ds bodies. I have used Canon digital bodies
since 2001, and I have never NEEDED an FF body. The sole advantage
(currently) is for wide angle, and at least at present Nikon has
that covered with DX lenses. Perhaps in future FF will be needed to
solve noise with increased pixel densities but at the moment this
is not an issue. FF also has some disadvantages especially when
shooting with a telephoto. I sometimes wish my 1D was 'only' 1.5x!

Besides, if you NEED a Nikon FF then you could always get a Kodak.

Bottom line:

Stop complaining and take pictures. Digital cameras are like
computers: If you keep waiting for the 'next new thing' then you
will never buy anything. The current DSLRs from (almost) any
manufacturer are probably better that you can use anyway (no insult
intended) so there is no reason not to buy one. No matter what
major brand you choose, there will always be an upgrade path.

--
A voice of reason among all the insanity.
msoutherland

 

[jb_va2001]

Nikon seem to have become followers and not leaders. Promised
lenses have been delayed. Prime lens prices are astronmical. the
D70 (when it appears) seems to have been rushed out as a reaction
to the Canon 300D. But worst of all, they still don't have a full
frame DSLR (this is almost commercially criminal). Nikon, when are
you going to get your act together?

Jim

--

----
JB

 

[Jim Nicholls]

Based on what I've seen, you do not EVEN own a digital SLR?

Yet your comments on what is better/worst abound.

What is up with that?

Nothing wrong with film, but if you want to judge digital get in
the game.



Digital is MUCH more about workflow and learning a camera than just
the standard film "what fiilm do I shoot" question.

Unlike film there is a boat load of comments about digital on DSLR.
Just like with film, Canon has HARDLEY won any war. Just a few
years ago Nikon lead the digital age, now Canon seems to have an
advantage, but at a big pricetag.

Get in the game or shut up!!!

Ron

Actually Ron I have owned two DSLR's, so I guess i am in the game.

Jim

Nikon seem to have become followers and not leaders. Promised
lenses have been delayed. Prime lens prices are astronmical. the
D70 (when it appears) seems to have been rushed out as a reaction
to the Canon 300D. But worst of all, they still don't have a full
frame DSLR (this is almost commercially criminal). Nikon, when are
you going to get your act together?

Jim

 

[Planet Art]

Nikon seem to have become followers and not leaders. Promised
lenses have been delayed. Prime lens prices are astronmical. the
D70 (when it appears) seems to have been rushed out as a reaction
to the Canon 300D. But worst of all, they still don't have a full
frame DSLR (this is almost commercially criminal). Nikon, when are
you going to get your act together?

Jim

…This one is not my fight, but…

Nikon has always been synonymous with optical excellence and industrial strength. Canon would build dishwashers if they thought they’d make more money.

Having said that, Canon does have a firmware/software advantage over Nikon since they’ve been in the consumer printer/scanner/peripheral business a lot longer than Nikon.

In 2001, Canon’s RAW conversion software (G1) was lame, but it worked with PS. Back then the Coolpix 990 was in the dark when it came to digital processing. {I know, I owned both. :}
--
Art

 

[Ger Bee]

I mean, can't we just stop this nonsense?
can we just talk about the camera we need instead of debating on
brand name first?

.... where I pointed out that if the Nikon gear I had had not broken I'd be using both a 1D AND a D2h right now.

This comes about because I was really very impressed with the AFS/VR (but it did not work too well on the D100) so I wanted a better body for it and Canon just do not have a lens like it for bokeh, it’s a beauty.

So I had wanted to keep that and my Canon and time would sort out the rest, but the lens broke and I threw it in the bin in disgust.

The D70 with a new SB800/500 flash is looking very good and exceptionally so for it’s entry-level market placement.

I’ve switched brands fives times recently, starting with Olympus then to Nikon almost immediately and back to Olympus for the E10 back to Nikon (for good this time) and out of sheer frustration to Canon last summer. I will continue to monitor new developments, if the product is good, reliable with professional backup service and I perceive a satisfaction amongst users then I will be swayed.

My move to Canon was cemented by replies I received, as a Nikon user at that time, from the members of the Canon forum. I was interested in the 1D but afraid of it for the battery, split screen syndrome, banding and noise. I voiced my concerns and I did not receive any ‘troll’ comments and overwhelmingly positive posts from apparently genuinely satisfied owners. In contrast here on the Nikon board today (not a year later) any and all posts are attacked immediately as trolls, and far too few members actually come in and vice satisfaction otherwise a ‘troll’ post should be ignored and buried in thirty minutes.

The behaviour of forum members has a big influence on potential buyers and you are right it should not be all out warfare, I may buy another Nikon, as outlined above I’d have already done so, but I’ll not be buying one this year now.

 

[medvidek]

Gosh.. another one!!! im getting pretty tired of the battle between Canon and Nikon.. and the name calling.. Canon Soliders, Nikon Camp.. HEY! We are all interested in photographing.. isnt that enough?

Im just damn happy we can get this technology in our hands this days.. many years ago when i started we got excited when we could use the darkroom at school for free.. from one evening we got 2-3 good pictures..

For me i buy what ever is avalible at the moment.. i bought the Canon 300D a few weeks ago.. it was no option to wait for D70.. because i wanted/needed the 300D for some spring trips.. others might want to wait, or have some lenses allready etc etc. we heard this many times allready.. both cameras are good.. and there will be other brans coming..

Im just glad there are som competition going on.. so we can expect more in the future.. thanks for the word.. smile ) Click!!

 

[Ermac]

Nikon seem to have become followers and not leaders.

Yeah... They weren't the first company to come out with a wide angle lens solution to the 1.5" CCD FOV crop or anything. It must have been Canon... Oh wait no! All they have is a cheap consumer kit lens that you can't mount to anything but a EOS 300D

Prime lens prices are astronmical.

So are all the other companies.

the D70 (when it appears) seems to have been rushed out as a reaction
to the Canon 300D.

No, it's not even a stripped down D100 in some ways it's better.

But worst of all, they still don't have a full
frame DSLR (this is almost commercially criminal).

Please refer back to point number one. The only reason FF was desired was so all those ultra-wideangle lenses would still be ultra wide-angle lenses. Nikon chose an alternative that was more cost effective than a FF sensor by making DX lenses. Then Pentax and Canon followed suit. No... Nikon's not leading the way... they're just building the road.

Jim

 

[Ger Bee]

No... Nikon's not leading the way...

they're just building the road.

Jim

.......... and you are so right about that .... but in the wrong direction for many apparently.

“You take the high road and I’ll take the low road … !”

I could say that Nikon are like the Number 19 bus, constantly waiting at bus stops for the next fares and extension to the road network. Canon are like driving 4x4s, they don’t need a road at all.

Heheheeee have fun now ha hear! ')))

 

[medvidek]

And i walk where no 4x4 can get ) and i take pictures with my old Praktica ))

they're just building the road.

Jim

.......... and you are so right about that .... but in the wrong
direction for many apparently.

“You take the high road and I’ll take the low road … !”

I could say that Nikon are like the Number 19 bus, constantly
waiting at bus stops for the next fares and extension to the road
network. Canon are like driving 4x4s, they don’t need a road at all.

Heheheeee have fun now ha hear! ')))

 

[Ermac]

they're just building the road.

Jim

.......... and you are so right about that .... but in the wrong
direction for many apparently.

“You take the high road and I’ll take the low road … !”

I could say that Nikon are like the Number 19 bus, constantly
waiting at bus stops for the next fares and extension to the road
network. Canon are like driving 4x4s, they don’t need a road at all.

Heheheeee have fun now ha hear! ')))

I'm sorry I just don't see what Nikon did to give you and Jim the impression that they were going to satisfy your every whim. I mean you guys are sooooooo special that they should just be begging to hear your ideas on how to run their business just for the shear joy of it.

Really though Nikon and Canon don't give a rats patootie what kind of gear your using even if you find yourself switching from one to the other every time they announce a new toy. Granted those that do such a thing are those companies' best customers but they are also really good at being stupid too.

The bottom line is if you're a pro you probably invested in one company or another before digital came to the SLR biz and you have a set of lenses that you worked hard to build. So unless you're a two bit hack or a rank amature posuer (pick your favorite, I'll take the latter) you're going to buy the SLR your lenses fit on regardless of whether or not it has a full frame sensor or what it's megapixel count is.

I can't stand this theory that all photographers are rich enough to just jump ship if their brand isn't making them happy. Obviously if a true pro was making money with the Nikon D1 when it came out he/she's probably still making money with it now. If they don't see something they like for an upgrade the obvious choice is to carry on with what they have and chances are they're still using film anyway.