Kevin Bjorke32030
Leading Member
And for me, it occured only at focal lengths of 12.5mm or less. Chris Breeze also documented it at an early date.
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G1 manual flash problems - a summary
- Thread starter JC46960
- Start date
Peter T44178
Senior Member
I wish my camera behaved that way. It would make the problem a lot more manageable.
Just a quick update. I upgraded to 1.0.0.2 and there was absolutely no change with regard to the flash problems I have been experiencing (as expected). I thought that the camera was now under-exposing by 1 stop, but soon realized that my ISO was reset to 50 after the firmware upgrade. I set it back to 100 and everything is back to "normal".
I called the Canon Technician late last week. He asked some more questions and asked me to re-test using some different paramters. I did and updated my website to reflect the changes. Basically, I simplified my test suite further by using only one 380EX flash and did not diffuse it. In my previous tests I diffused the 380EX so I wouldn't have to move it so far away. This was confusing to the Canon Tech. so I simplified the test suite.
Otherwise, there's nothing new to report. I will say that I am happily using the G1 with three Vivtar 283's using the Canon flash adapters and cords. I use my Sekonic flash meter to setup the flashes where I want them. I simply zoom in at least 4 hits (the zoom is indexed, so 4 hits gets me to 10.8 mm), and then fire away with the G1. Works like a charm.
I'll post agin when I hear back from the Canon technician.
J. C.
I called the Canon Technician late last week. He asked some more questions and asked me to re-test using some different paramters. I did and updated my website to reflect the changes. Basically, I simplified my test suite further by using only one 380EX flash and did not diffuse it. In my previous tests I diffused the 380EX so I wouldn't have to move it so far away. This was confusing to the Canon Tech. so I simplified the test suite.
Otherwise, there's nothing new to report. I will say that I am happily using the G1 with three Vivtar 283's using the Canon flash adapters and cords. I use my Sekonic flash meter to setup the flashes where I want them. I simply zoom in at least 4 hits (the zoom is indexed, so 4 hits gets me to 10.8 mm), and then fire away with the G1. Works like a charm.
I'll post agin when I hear back from the Canon technician.
J. C.
I know this is a little late now that people are enamored with the G2, but I have finally resolved my problems with my G1 and manual flash/multiple flash. Check out my web page for full details. I'll include the final resolution below.
http://home.nc.rr.com/bagleyhome/Digital%20Photography.htm
Resolution:
After nearly four months, three Canon Technicians, two supervisors and the Assistant Director of Technical Information, Chuck Westfall, my Canon G1 multi-flash problems have been resolved. None of the technicians ever duplicated my findings. I find this completely absurd. I sent a printout of this web page, my G1, 380EX and all cables and accessories involved. Why they were unable to hook up the cables and push the shutter button is beyond me.
Chuck was the only person who even understood my problem. He acknowledged the problem but made it very clear that Canon had no intention of fixing it. I had two choices, live with it, or try to get rid of my G1. I asked Chuck if there was any way I could upgrade to a D30 or get a refund. He instructed me to call Canon Customer Relations. I called them and was given an offer to upgrade to the D30. Unfortunately, their offer did not include the Canon rebate for the extra battery and the 1 Gb microdrive. Their D30 price was also more than what I can get it for at B&H. I turned down that offer and pursued a refund. I was informed today that Canon has cut a check for me for the full purchase price of the Canon G1 and all accessories I purchased for it. This is good because I have already bought a Canon D30. Even though I really didn’t want to spend this much money, I am much happier with the D30. Check out a few pictures of my daughter I took this past week.
http://home.nc.rr.com/bagleyhome/Elise.htm
One last note, I was given a chance to run my tests using a G1 with the original firmware, 1.0.0.0. That camera did NOT have the problem. This proves that the multi-flash incompatibility was introduced with the first firmware update. I asked Canon to back-date my firmware, and was informed that there is no way to do this.
I asked Chuck if the G2 would have the same problem. He informed me that the G2 did have more rigorous flash tests done on it, but they were done using the wireless flash system. Therefore, the G2 probably will not work with the Canon flash cables either.
http://home.nc.rr.com/bagleyhome/Digital%20Photography.htm
Resolution:
After nearly four months, three Canon Technicians, two supervisors and the Assistant Director of Technical Information, Chuck Westfall, my Canon G1 multi-flash problems have been resolved. None of the technicians ever duplicated my findings. I find this completely absurd. I sent a printout of this web page, my G1, 380EX and all cables and accessories involved. Why they were unable to hook up the cables and push the shutter button is beyond me.
Chuck was the only person who even understood my problem. He acknowledged the problem but made it very clear that Canon had no intention of fixing it. I had two choices, live with it, or try to get rid of my G1. I asked Chuck if there was any way I could upgrade to a D30 or get a refund. He instructed me to call Canon Customer Relations. I called them and was given an offer to upgrade to the D30. Unfortunately, their offer did not include the Canon rebate for the extra battery and the 1 Gb microdrive. Their D30 price was also more than what I can get it for at B&H. I turned down that offer and pursued a refund. I was informed today that Canon has cut a check for me for the full purchase price of the Canon G1 and all accessories I purchased for it. This is good because I have already bought a Canon D30. Even though I really didn’t want to spend this much money, I am much happier with the D30. Check out a few pictures of my daughter I took this past week.
http://home.nc.rr.com/bagleyhome/Elise.htm
One last note, I was given a chance to run my tests using a G1 with the original firmware, 1.0.0.0. That camera did NOT have the problem. This proves that the multi-flash incompatibility was introduced with the first firmware update. I asked Canon to back-date my firmware, and was informed that there is no way to do this.
I asked Chuck if the G2 would have the same problem. He informed me that the G2 did have more rigorous flash tests done on it, but they were done using the wireless flash system. Therefore, the G2 probably will not work with the Canon flash cables either.
Peter T44178
Senior Member
How the heck did you ever get anyone at Canon to even listen to you? A number of us with this problem called Canon and we were always quickly blown off.
Persistence. Getting through the front-line triage folks was the hardest part. They are trained to blow you off if they can. I got involved in a very heated discussion with one of them early on in the cycle. He eventually hung up on me. I learned at that time to be nice and to try to get past the front-line (i.e. send my camera to Canon Factory Service). Once I did that, I was able to call Illinois and talk to the technicians. They are much nicer than the front-line folks. I never had another heated discussion with any Canon representative after I got past the front-line folks.
Another tactic I used was, before ending a phone conversation, I got their name and a specific time when I could expect a return phone call. I told them that if I didn't hear anything by the time they specified, I would call them back. I left lots of voice mail for folks. Eventually, it was easier for them to deal with me than to dodge my phone calls.
Persistence paid off - literally!
Another tactic I used was, before ending a phone conversation, I got their name and a specific time when I could expect a return phone call. I told them that if I didn't hear anything by the time they specified, I would call them back. I left lots of voice mail for folks. Eventually, it was easier for them to deal with me than to dodge my phone calls.
Persistence paid off - literally!
J.C.,
Incidentally my G1 broke down was sent to Illinoise for service. I don't even have the phone number to that place, though. Maybe I should take this chance and try to get the same like you did -- it might be easier now that you've set precedent. Do you have helpful contact information at the IL factory?
Michael
Incidentally my G1 broke down was sent to Illinoise for service. I don't even have the phone number to that place, though. Maybe I should take this chance and try to get the same like you did -- it might be easier now that you've set precedent. Do you have helpful contact information at the IL factory?
Michael
The Canon Factory Service Center number is 630-250-6500. You'll have to call and ask who is working on your camera. Honestly, I got no help from the IL folks. They were all very nice, but they couldn't fix the G1 firmware bug, so they just passed me on to Canon Customer Relations at 516-328-4202. Canon CR needed justification for the refund. I had plenty since I had spoken with many technicians and with Chuck Westfall about a problem Canon acknowledged but refused to correct. I'm sure CR followed up with Chuck to verify my story.
If you do try for the refund, I recommend stating that you were following my progress closely hoping for a positive resolution from Canon (i.e. firmware update). Since Canon chose not to fix the problem, then you'd like a refund too.
Good luck!
If you do try for the refund, I recommend stating that you were following my progress closely hoping for a positive resolution from Canon (i.e. firmware update). Since Canon chose not to fix the problem, then you'd like a refund too.
Good luck!
J.C.,
I appreciate the detailed information you have been providing and have followed along with your saga. A couple of quick questions. First did you ever try the test with your 380 on the Camera? Did it create identical results? Also, did you try just the 380 or did you use any other Canon or non-Canon flashes. I agree there numerous problems with the G1's flash system, (among other things) and like many people, I too have been struggling. My 420ex has never metered properly through its e-TTL system and in fact, I get better results with my old Sunpak in manual mode!
I appreciate the detailed information you have been providing and have followed along with your saga. A couple of quick questions. First did you ever try the test with your 380 on the Camera? Did it create identical results? Also, did you try just the 380 or did you use any other Canon or non-Canon flashes. I agree there numerous problems with the G1's flash system, (among other things) and like many people, I too have been struggling. My 420ex has never metered properly through its e-TTL system and in fact, I get better results with my old Sunpak in manual mode!
Hi Adam,
I verified all my tests using the 380EX and a Vivitar 283. If I remember correctly, the 380EX worked correctly in the hot-shoe, although I was not able to test in Manual mode (since I can't get the flash far enough away from the subject when it is attached to the camera - the 380EX fires full power when the camera is in Manual mode). I suspect it would work correctly with the Canon Off-Camera Shoe Cord 2, which is supposed to preserve E-TTL. Introducing a cable that does not preserve E-TTL communications causes the problem (even though the camera is in Manual mode and there's no TTL metering going on). I guess the camera is trying to talk to the flash and ask if it's a E-TTL flash. If so, then the camera behaves correctly. If it's not an E-TTL flash, then the camera treats the flash differently and this causes the problem.
Chuck Westfall told me the G2 should have the same problem. However, they did do more thorough testing with Canon's wireless flash system with the G2. In theory, you should be able to use the ST-E2, 550EX and other flashes that support Canon's wireless technology. However, I have no idea how that would impact Manual flash control.
Good luck!
J. C.
I verified all my tests using the 380EX and a Vivitar 283. If I remember correctly, the 380EX worked correctly in the hot-shoe, although I was not able to test in Manual mode (since I can't get the flash far enough away from the subject when it is attached to the camera - the 380EX fires full power when the camera is in Manual mode). I suspect it would work correctly with the Canon Off-Camera Shoe Cord 2, which is supposed to preserve E-TTL. Introducing a cable that does not preserve E-TTL communications causes the problem (even though the camera is in Manual mode and there's no TTL metering going on). I guess the camera is trying to talk to the flash and ask if it's a E-TTL flash. If so, then the camera behaves correctly. If it's not an E-TTL flash, then the camera treats the flash differently and this causes the problem.
Chuck Westfall told me the G2 should have the same problem. However, they did do more thorough testing with Canon's wireless flash system with the G2. In theory, you should be able to use the ST-E2, 550EX and other flashes that support Canon's wireless technology. However, I have no idea how that would impact Manual flash control.
Good luck!
J. C.
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