Face Detect KP and K-1 with new firmware

[Mike Arledge]

I posted this on the announcement thread, but might be a useful own topic...

This may be too hard to verify other than by impressions and experience, but I am excited. My hunch was that where we would see something sneaky was in live view with face detect selected. I have uploaded the new firmware on my KP, and damn, once it detects a face it is by far stickier and faster and tracking!! Please others try this out and let us know, I am powering up my K-1 to try there as well. Lens used on KP was FA 31.

I have suspected since one of the last firmware updates is that they have been beta testing some face detect ideas and AF improvements on the KP for this new launch, and I think you will all notice a difference in reliability and speed in live view.

 

[zakaria]

Great.

I willupload the new v in myk1ii and hope to see this good thing.

 

[Mike Arledge]

Here is a video I snapped of it in action on the KP

I mean, that is about on level with my Fuji X-T4 for stickiness and detection.

 

[flektogon]

What do you mean, is there a new F/W for the KP? I have F/W version 1.11 from 2019.

 

[Mike Arledge]

Here is the post, firmware for many bodies was released, mostly claiming to make the cameras perform better with the new HD FA lens being released, but an asterisk for improved stability

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4568432

 

[flektogon]

Thanks Mike, I have just (successfully ) updated F/W on my KP. I don't use the face detection, as I use mainly OVF, so I have no idea what else could be tested. But hopefully nothing will be spoiled.

 

[Lessiter]

Here is a video I snapped of it in action on the KP

I mean, that is about on level with my Fuji X-T4 for stickiness and detection.

That looks like normal Pentax face detect to me. It even looks a bit poor, perhaps due to low light.

 

[Mike Arledge]

Here is a video I snapped of it in action on the KP

I mean, that is about on level with my Fuji X-T4 for stickiness and detection.

That looks like normal Pentax face detect to me. It even looks a bit poor, perhaps due to low light.

All we can do back and forth is debate unless we all get together and plan something scientific...

 

[Wallace Ross]

Looking at the video of the live view face detect I don’t see any difference from previous examples of it.

There is no evidence of a change and Ricoh hasn’t claimed any change. There is just your hope that there would be a change.

 

[Mike Arledge]

Looking at the video of the live view face detect I don’t see any difference from previous examples of it.

There is no evidence of a change and Ricoh hasn’t claimed any change. There is just your hope that there would be a change.

 

[Phil A Martin]

I posted this on the announcement thread, but might be a useful own topic...

This may be too hard to verify other than by impressions and experience, but I am excited. My hunch was that where we would see something sneaky was in live view with face detect selected. I have uploaded the new firmware on my KP, and damn, once it detects a face it is by far stickier and faster and tracking!! Please others try this out and let us know, I am powering up my K-1 to try there as well. Lens used on KP was FA 31.

I have suspected since one of the last firmware updates is that they have been beta testing some face detect ideas and AF improvements on the KP for this new launch, and I think you will all notice a difference in reliability and speed in live view.

I have just updated my KP, thank you for the heads up.

 

[on6702]

Some objective scientific data for any changes resulting from this upgrade is needed I feel. Ideally we need to someone who hasn't upgrade yet (I have or I would do it) to perform some methodical testing and timing of the focus behaviour for both liveview and phase AF before and after the upgrade. Without this data everything is just speculation.

 

[K0d]

Break out the ISO calibrated swerving bicycle

 

[KPM2]

Hello Mike Arledge

I use a simple test for the PDAF in AF-C:

I use a printed picture and move myself to it, during I do a series of pictures

result: I got a little more in focus pictures in the series with the K1 and KP and the FA 77mm f1.8 at f1.8.

But in LV nothing changed !

I use AF-C in LV, focus continuously (always stay on half press the shutter release button), and move myself: nothing changed ! I have first my object in focus and get the green frame, but when I move, the green frame is still there and stay on my object (a face for example, or a book which it follows to the left and right when I let look my camera to the left and right)....but the object is out of focus !!! The camera simple do not focus again on it, it has a still a very high threshold before it start a new AF on the object. I would maybe named it 'green focus frame tracking', but it has nothing to do with a continuously focusing on the object under the green focus frame, because it simple do not happens !

Next, in the face recognition:

I use here a CD cover, which show the face of the interpret.

Ok, the camera see and follow the face with a yellow frame, when I move and let the camera look to the left and right of my face. But when I once focus to it, the frame get green.....but do now not follow my movement. The green frame you can set now to all areas in the scene do to your movement. It do, when you once focus stop tracking the face now. I am really sure, that was before the update not the case, but because I use it seldom, it can be that I am wrong here. So, tracking a face, works now only in LV with AF-C, or you focus to it - do not focus to it, than the camera is tracking it with the yellow frame again (but without to focus to it) - and for the picture you have to focus to it again.

At my K1, in AF-C, the red AF point illumination get still only for the first hit illuminated and for all other hits not. I have the AF illumination to always on. So, the update did here also changed nothing.

best regards. KPM2

 

[Mike Arledge]

Hello Mike Arledge

I use a simple test for the PDAF in AF-C:

I use a printed picture and move myself to it, during I do a series of pictures

result: I got a little more in focus pictures in the series with the K1 and KP and the FA 77mm f1.8 at f1.8.

But in LV nothing changed !

I use AF-C in LV, focus continuously (always stay on half press the shutter release button), and move myself: nothing changed ! I have first my object in focus and get the green frame, but when I move, the green frame is still there and stay on my object (a face for example, or a book which it follows to the left and right when I let look my camera to the left and right)....but the object is out of focus !!! The camera simple do not focus again on it, it has a still a very high threshold before it start a new AF on the object. I would maybe named it 'green focus frame tracking', but it has nothing to do with a continuously focusing on the object under the green focus frame, because it simple do not happens !

Next, in the face recognition:

I use here a CD cover, which show the face of the interpret.

Ok, the camera see and follow the face with a yellow frame, when I move and let the camera look to the left and right of my face. But when I once focus to it, the frame get green.....but do now not follow my movement. The green frame you can set now to all areas in the scene do to your movement. It do, when you once focus stop tracking the face now. I am really sure, that was before the update not the case, but because I use it seldom, it can be that I am wrong here. So, tracking a face, works now only in LV with AF-C, or you focus to it - do not focus to it, than the camera is tracking it with the yellow frame again (but without to focus to it) - and for the picture you have to focus to it again.

At my K1, in AF-C, the red AF point illumination get still only for the first hit illuminated and for all other hits not. I have the AF illumination to always on. So, the update did here also changed nothing.

best regards. KPM2

Maybe try a real person here... not sure why you chose to track a photo of a face...

 

[KPM2]

Hello Mike Arledge

Hello Mike Arledge

I use a simple test for the PDAF in AF-C:

I use a printed picture and move myself to it, during I do a series of pictures

result: I got a little more in focus pictures in the series with the K1 and KP and the FA 77mm f1.8 at f1.8.

But in LV nothing changed !

I use AF-C in LV, focus continuously (always stay on half press the shutter release button), and move myself: nothing changed ! I have first my object in focus and get the green frame, but when I move, the green frame is still there and stay on my object (a face for example, or a book which it follows to the left and right when I let look my camera to the left and right)....but the object is out of focus !!! The camera simple do not focus again on it, it has a still a very high threshold before it start a new AF on the object. I would maybe named it 'green focus frame tracking', but it has nothing to do with a continuously focusing on the object under the green focus frame, because it simple do not happens !

Next, in the face recognition:

I use here a CD cover, which show the face of the interpret.

Ok, the camera see and follow the face with a yellow frame, when I move and let the camera look to the left and right of my face. But when I once focus to it, the frame get green.....but do now not follow my movement. The green frame you can set now to all areas in the scene do to your movement. It do, when you once focus stop tracking the face now. I am really sure, that was before the update not the case, but because I use it seldom, it can be that I am wrong here. So, tracking a face, works now only in LV with AF-C, or you focus to it - do not focus to it, than the camera is tracking it with the yellow frame again (but without to focus to it) - and for the picture you have to focus to it again.

At my K1, in AF-C, the red AF point illumination get still only for the first hit illuminated and for all other hits not. I have the AF illumination to always on. So, the update did here also changed nothing.

best regards. KPM2

Maybe try a real person here... not sure why you chose to track a photo of a face...

My KP and K1 do track on this CD cover face when I am in LV with face AF. But it stop it's tracking once I focused. Is this not the case when you use it? In my case, my camera is quasi in AF-S, so it stop it's tracking after I once focused. In LV with AF-C, my cameras always do tracking when I continuously focus, but only with a green frame, but not with a real continuously focusing.

best regards. KPM2

 

[Mike Arledge]

Hello Mike Arledge

Hello Mike Arledge

I use a simple test for the PDAF in AF-C:

I use a printed picture and move myself to it, during I do a series of pictures

result: I got a little more in focus pictures in the series with the K1 and KP and the FA 77mm f1.8 at f1.8.

But in LV nothing changed !

I use AF-C in LV, focus continuously (always stay on half press the shutter release button), and move myself: nothing changed ! I have first my object in focus and get the green frame, but when I move, the green frame is still there and stay on my object (a face for example, or a book which it follows to the left and right when I let look my camera to the left and right)....but the object is out of focus !!! The camera simple do not focus again on it, it has a still a very high threshold before it start a new AF on the object. I would maybe named it 'green focus frame tracking', but it has nothing to do with a continuously focusing on the object under the green focus frame, because it simple do not happens !

Next, in the face recognition:

I use here a CD cover, which show the face of the interpret.

Ok, the camera see and follow the face with a yellow frame, when I move and let the camera look to the left and right of my face. But when I once focus to it, the frame get green.....but do now not follow my movement. The green frame you can set now to all areas in the scene do to your movement. It do, when you once focus stop tracking the face now. I am really sure, that was before the update not the case, but because I use it seldom, it can be that I am wrong here. So, tracking a face, works now only in LV with AF-C, or you focus to it - do not focus to it, than the camera is tracking it with the yellow frame again (but without to focus to it) - and for the picture you have to focus to it again.

At my K1, in AF-C, the red AF point illumination get still only for the first hit illuminated and for all other hits not. I have the AF illumination to always on. So, the update did here also changed nothing.

best regards. KPM2

Maybe try a real person here... not sure why you chose to track a photo of a face...

My KP and K1 do track on this CD cover face when I am in LV with face AF. But it stop it's tracking once I focused. Is this not the case when you use it? In my case, my camera is quasi in AF-S, so it stop it's tracking after I once focused. In LV with AF-C, my cameras always do tracking when I continuously focus, but only with a green frame, but not with a real continuously focusing.

best regards. KPM2

I understand you better now, sorry I misread. Yeah, that is basically what I experience, once you engage focus, you are locked into that. I image that is why they call it face detect not real time face tracking or something, lol. So, perhaps only useful for applications like mine of posed portraits...

 

[KPM2]

Hello Mike Arledge

Hello Mike Arledge

Hello Mike Arledge

I use a simple test for the PDAF in AF-C:

I use a printed picture and move myself to it, during I do a series of pictures

result: I got a little more in focus pictures in the series with the K1 and KP and the FA 77mm f1.8 at f1.8.

But in LV nothing changed !

I use AF-C in LV, focus continuously (always stay on half press the shutter release button), and move myself: nothing changed ! I have first my object in focus and get the green frame, but when I move, the green frame is still there and stay on my object (a face for example, or a book which it follows to the left and right when I let look my camera to the left and right)....but the object is out of focus !!! The camera simple do not focus again on it, it has a still a very high threshold before it start a new AF on the object. I would maybe named it 'green focus frame tracking', but it has nothing to do with a continuously focusing on the object under the green focus frame, because it simple do not happens !

Next, in the face recognition:

I use here a CD cover, which show the face of the interpret.

Ok, the camera see and follow the face with a yellow frame, when I move and let the camera look to the left and right of my face. But when I once focus to it, the frame get green.....but do now not follow my movement. The green frame you can set now to all areas in the scene do to your movement. It do, when you once focus stop tracking the face now. I am really sure, that was before the update not the case, but because I use it seldom, it can be that I am wrong here. So, tracking a face, works now only in LV with AF-C, or you focus to it - do not focus to it, than the camera is tracking it with the yellow frame again (but without to focus to it) - and for the picture you have to focus to it again.

At my K1, in AF-C, the red AF point illumination get still only for the first hit illuminated and for all other hits not. I have the AF illumination to always on. So, the update did here also changed nothing.

best regards. KPM2

Maybe try a real person here... not sure why you chose to track a photo of a face...

My KP and K1 do track on this CD cover face when I am in LV with face AF. But it stop it's tracking once I focused. Is this not the case when you use it? In my case, my camera is quasi in AF-S, so it stop it's tracking after I once focused. In LV with AF-C, my cameras always do tracking when I continuously focus, but only with a green frame, but not with a real continuously focusing.

best regards. KPM2

I understand you better now, sorry I misread. Yeah, that is basically what I experience, once you engage focus, you are locked into that. I image that is why they call it face detect not real time face tracking or something, lol. So, perhaps only useful for applications like mine of posed portraits...

Ok

I for example use in LV the AF-C for to focus and recompose. My tip is, even when the camera is after my recompose with it's green frame still on my object, I always focus again, because in AF-C and in LV it simple not follows object distance changes as quick as the PDAF, it has a incredible high threshold, in other words, most of the time my focus point is out of focus after I recomposed and maybe move a little to the object for a ideal scene frame (but remember, the green focus frame is always still on my focused object).

I use for that my AF button to focus = ON when pushed down. I focus via hold down half the shutter release button all the time, during that I recompose and than I use also with a short push the AF button. Than, the camera focus once again where the green frame is at the moment, even when the camera did decide, it is not necessary....but you can be sure, it is necessary to focus again !

best regards. KPM2

 

[Hiril]

I have KP, can you tell me how to use Face detection autofocus? Also can you tell me if it will work on manual lens(this may sound stupid) but what i meant to say is that i have couple of manual lens and I wish to nail focus on face everytime but end up focusing somewhere elese( even though I thougth that it was in focus in view finder.

 

[xmeda]

I have KP, can you tell me how to use Face detection autofocus? Also can you tell me if it will work on manual lens(this may sound stupid) but what i meant to say is that i have couple of manual lens and I wish to nail focus on face everytime but end up focusing somewhere elese( even though I thougth that it was in focus in view finder.

LIVE-VIEW only. And switch face recognition on.

There is no way how to do face detection through phase-detect AF in Pentax DSLR world. You'll need hundreds of AF points for such attempts and that is not available on anything but machines like Nikon D6, Canon 1Dx etc.. with 100+ cross type sensors.

But even those are weak when compared to current hi-end mirrorless beasts which can combine phase-detect with real image processing (contrast detect, countours, shape tracking etc). That is undoable in phase-detect.