DSLR without usb C doomed in EU ? Maybe?

[Thom Hogan]

Agree. We've all got too many different cables and chargers.

Actually, I agree with you Thom. I've certainly got way too many cluttering up my equipment drawers.

However, the USB specification is quite wide with respect to currents carried from a modest 500 milliamps to a wapping 5 amps. Devices needing greater wattage will surely need heavier duty cable than small things such as 'phones or headphones.

It's not just wattage. USB cables carry data, too, and data speeds change with Moore's law, too. We currently have multiple potential data definitions on what most people would consider a "standard USB cable." I just went through the expense of bringing all my cables up to Thunderbolt 4, 240W.

So I can foresee cables proliferating, not reducing.

Yes.

 

[BGD300V1]

The 5 1/4" floppy disks were okay, but they weren't as nice as the new 3 1/2" disks. And there were all of these other removable disk variants. Remember Zip drives?

Yeah, it was a pain in the ass to need both a 5 1/4" floppy disk drive AND a 3 1/2" drive. It was a pain for software distributors to make both options available.

If only a regulation loving government would have stepped up and mandated all software to be distributed on 3 1/2" floppy disks. We'd probably still be enjoying the benefits of that regulation.

But that was a new technology. Plugs to deliver electricity are much farther along.

And there are several really nice standards in that regard. Why I have a reasonably small packing cube for adapters.

I think RS-232 was up to RS-232F before finally falling out of favor. (along with a few other derivatives and 'standard' connector types.)

 

[robert1955]

There is no grandfather clause. ALL product MUST have usb c charging built in.

I think you are misreading what it affects regards past/present/already in production/in the future

That's what I originally thought, too. However, note the next comment. This is exactly what I'm hearing from manufacturers trying to deal with the law. Also note that the EU Parliament is interpreting what the actual EU commission directive says. Beyond that, it appears that individual countries are dealing with the same issue in their parliaments. Germany is current debating the directive, for instance.

One problem—and I'll try to clarify this in my article later today—is that in absence of a clear statement that absolutely applies, manufacturers will pull their products rather than risk being fined.

If I remember my EU law correctly a directive as if and when final must be incorporated in the national laws of the member states to become effective (which the Bundestag is apparently now doing). If a member state does not do this within the time frame, or not completely the Commission can take action in the ECJ.

In this phase there is the possibility of exchanging views on interpretation. Something like a grandfather clause may well become part of that.

 

[BGD300V1]

The regulation will stifle any improvement

I wonder how much improvement can still be done on such a basic and simple function.

Perhaps a move to a parallel data path for higher speeds?

 

[Steve Balcombe]

No. It only applies to new devices. Next question.

Not exactly...

It applies to all devices sold ...:

by the end of 2024, all mobile phones, tablets and cameras* sold in the EU will have to be equipped with a USB Type-C charging port. From spring 2026, the obligation will extend to laptops.

(plus all devices " that are rechargeable via a wired cable, operating with a power delivery of up to 100 Watts, will have to be equipped with a USB Type-C port")

From the EU commision site.

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/news...-for-mobile-devices-will-be-a-reality-in-2024

That means that importers/wholesalers and retailers have to sell all non compliant stock before those dates or shift it to countries that will not have the same requirement by then.

This is just a press release, and the wording of the first quoted paragraph suffers from being too concise. Two paragraphs later, we have:

"Regardless of their manufacturer, all new mobile phones, tablets, digital cameras, headphones and headsets, handheld videogame consoles and portable speakers, e-readers, keyboards, mice, portable navigation systems, earbuds and laptops that are rechargeable via a wired cable, operating with a power delivery of up to 100 Watts, will have to be equipped with a USB Type-C port."

- which is much clearer. The bold text (my bold) is essential for proper understanding, but has been omitted by the press officer in the first paragraph. Notice by the way that nowhere does it say "plus all devices" or any equivalent wording. This is not in addition to the first paragraph, it's a more complete statement of the same thing.

 

[FrancoD]

That makes more sense.

From that I understand that if the item can be internaly recharged ,then it has to be done via USB C.

But we will need to wait a bit longer to see how it will be implemented.

What is clear to me is that it has nothing to do with items that were sold before the implementation date.

 

[nameless0ne]

The EU directive is for ALL appliances with an integral or removable battery.

USB-C charging can not provide more than 100 Watts -- that's a port limitation. I wonder, what should happen with devices that require more, e.g. gaming laptops can consume 330 Watts. As usual, an EU wide detectives are tremendously stupid.

 

[Mika Y.]

The EU directive is for ALL appliances with an integral or removable battery.

USB-C charging can not provide more than 100 Watts -- that's a port limitation. I wonder, what should happen with devices that require more, e.g. gaming laptops can consume 330 Watts. As usual, an EU wide detectives are tremendously stupid.

Actually 240W: https://www.theverge.com/circuitbre...usb-c-power-delivery-extended-power-range-epr

 

[Overrank]

The EU directive is for ALL appliances with an integral or removable battery.

USB-C charging can not provide more than 100 Watts -- that's a port limitation. I wonder, what should happen with devices that require more, e.g. gaming laptops can consume 330 Watts. As usual, an EU wide detectives are tremendously stupid.

Whereas Lightning (Apple were the only real lawered-up alternative ) can deliver a massive 96W ( https://gizmodo.com.au/2023/06/lets-talk-about-lightning-cable/ ). Good that “market forces” sorted that out,

One could argue that forcing a smaller maximum wattage forces manufacturers to use less power in their gaming laptops, so that people can play “Call Of Duty 47: So Very Tired”, which does benefit CO2 emissions long term.

 

[R Liewenberger]

The EU directive is for ALL appliances with an integral or removable battery.

USB-C charging can not provide more than 100 Watts -- that's a port limitation. I wonder, what should happen with devices that require more, e.g. gaming laptops can consume 330 Watts. As usual, an EU wide detectives are tremendously stupid.

Actually 240W: https://www.theverge.com/circuitbre...usb-c-power-delivery-extended-power-range-epr

Yes.

Since the namelessone is from Austria, the 'Hama' website has a nice German language explanation of USB-C Power Delivery version 3.0 and 3.1 and the differences in Volt, Ampere and Watt: https://de.hama.com/tipps-und-beratung/laptop-computer-wissen/laptop-laden/was-ist-power-delivery

Liewenberger

 

[nameless0ne]

The EU directive is for ALL appliances with an integral or removable battery.

USB-C charging can not provide more than 100 Watts -- that's a port limitation. I wonder, what should happen with devices that require more, e.g. gaming laptops can consume 330 Watts. As usual, an EU wide detectives are tremendously stupid.

Actually 240W: https://www.theverge.com/circuitbre...usb-c-power-delivery-extended-power-range-epr

Yes.

Since the namelessone is from Austria, the 'Hama' website has a nice German language explanation of USB-C Power Delivery version 3.0 and 3.1 and the differences in Volt, Ampere and Watt: https://de.hama.com/tipps-und-beratung/laptop-computer-wissen/laptop-laden/was-ist-power-delivery

Liewenberger

Well, that the generic problem of "USB-C" therm, as this is umbrella brand with multiple different products within itself with different specifications. So, it is nice it would be better in future, but I assume would be very confusing for real consumers. Consider "usb-c PD charger" and than you have version, cable requirements, device port requirements and compatibility and etc. etc. So -- one problem solved, new introduced )

 

[Revenant]

This is just a press release, and the wording of the first quoted paragraph suffers from being too concise. Two paragraphs later, we have:

"Regardless of their manufacturer, all new mobile phones, tablets, digital cameras, headphones and headsets, handheld videogame consoles and portable speakers, e-readers, keyboards, mice, portable navigation systems, earbuds and laptops that are rechargeable via a wired cable, operating with a power delivery of up to 100 Watts, will have to be equipped with a USB Type-C port."

The word "new" is still ambiguous. Does it mean "newly launched" or "newly manufactured"? The latter would also include new batches of older models.

Regarding the other passage in bold text, if read literally, devices only using an external charger, or wireless charging, are out of scope of the directive. Likewise devices using a wired cable with power delivery exceeding 100 W. If this interpretation is correct, the directive does not make higher-powered charging illegal, as some people have feared. It's just that such devices are not required to have a USB-C port.

 

[Bob A L]

Certainly glad I don't live there. Another perfect example of how stupid government can be.

It seems to crazy to associate this with cameras. I would never dream of charging a camera battery inside the camera with a cord of any kind. A separate charger is required for me to charge camera batteries. So this way, no need for a camera to have a usb C connection to charge batteries. And typical battery chargers plug into mains voltage, so usb C not applicable there either.

How folks in the EU handle this will be fun to watch though.

 

[Bob A L]

Actually the free market does that pretty well. Bureaucratic micromanagement is the WRONG way to go.
'EU bureaucrats' <> 'customers wishes'

[I'm far from an Apple fan, but from personal experience their Lightning connector is more reliable than USBC]

Much much much more durable than usb C. It's not rocket science, just look carefully at the two devices.

 

[pannumon]

Actually the free market does that pretty well. Bureaucratic micromanagement is the WRONG way to go.
'EU bureaucrats' <> 'customers wishes'

[I'm far from an Apple fan, but from personal experience their Lightning connector is more reliable than USBC]

Much much much more durable than usb C. It's not rocket science, just look carefully at the two devices.

Please explain.

 

[Mika Y.]

Certainly glad I don't live there. Another perfect example of how stupid government can be.

It seems to crazy to associate this with cameras. I would never dream of charging a camera battery inside the camera with a cord of any kind. A separate charger is required for me to charge camera batteries. So this way, no need for a camera to have a usb C connection to charge batteries. And typical battery chargers plug into mains voltage, so usb C not applicable there either.

How folks in the EU handle this will be fun to watch though.

I haven't seen any statements explicitly forbidding external chargers for the batteries in addition to in-body USB-C charging. Until someone points a such statement to me, as someone living in EU, I expect to still be able to also use a separate charger just as before and in-body charging is merely a complementary option, just as it's now with my R7 and using whichever you prefer is up to you.

 

[Fogel70]

Certainly glad I don't live there. Another perfect example of how stupid government can be.

It seems to crazy to associate this with cameras. I would never dream of charging a camera battery inside the camera with a cord of any kind. A separate charger is required for me to charge camera batteries. So this way, no need for a camera to have a usb C connection to charge batteries. And typical battery chargers plug into mains voltage, so usb C not applicable there either.

How folks in the EU handle this will be fun to watch though.

I haven't seen any statements explicitly forbidding external chargers for the batteries in addition to in-body USB-C charging. Until someone points a such statement to me, as someone living in EU, I expect to still be able to also use a separate charger just as before and in-body charging is merely a complementary option, just as it's now with my R7 and using whichever you prefer is up to you.

But if in camera batteries are charged with USB-C cable I suspect future external charger will also be powered with USB-C. So they can use the same circuitry in both camera and charger. That would lower cost for the manufacturers.

 

[FrancoD]

Certainly glad I don't live there. Another perfect example of how stupid government can be.

It seems to crazy to associate this with cameras. I would never dream of charging a camera battery inside the camera with a cord of any kind. A separate charger is required for me to charge camera batteries. So this way, no need for a camera to have a usb C connection to charge batteries. And typical battery chargers plug into mains voltage, so usb C not applicable there either.

How folks in the EU handle this will be fun to watch though.

I haven't seen any statements explicitly forbidding external chargers for the batteries in addition to in-body USB-C charging. Until someone points a such statement to me, as someone living in EU, I expect to still be able to also use a separate charger just as before and in-body charging is merely a complementary option, just as it's now with my R7 and using whichever you prefer is up to you.

Yes, I think that several missed that point.

 

[Mika Y.]

Certainly glad I don't live there. Another perfect example of how stupid government can be.

It seems to crazy to associate this with cameras. I would never dream of charging a camera battery inside the camera with a cord of any kind. A separate charger is required for me to charge camera batteries. So this way, no need for a camera to have a usb C connection to charge batteries. And typical battery chargers plug into mains voltage, so usb C not applicable there either.

How folks in the EU handle this will be fun to watch though.

I haven't seen any statements explicitly forbidding external chargers for the batteries in addition to in-body USB-C charging. Until someone points a such statement to me, as someone living in EU, I expect to still be able to also use a separate charger just as before and in-body charging is merely a complementary option, just as it's now with my R7 and using whichever you prefer is up to you.

Actually, here's a quote from this document:

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eur-lex.europa.eu

"The regulation excludes the certain power supplies (voltage converters, uninterruptible
power supplies, battery chargers without power supply function, lighting converters,
external power supplies for medical devices, active power over Ethernet injectors, docking
stations for autonomous appliances, external power supplies placed on the market before 1 April 2025 solely as a service part or spare part for replacing an identical external power
supply placed on the market before 1 April 2020, under the condition that the service part
or spare part, or its packaging, clearly indicate ‘External power supply to be used
exclusively as spare part for’ and the primary load product(s) it is intended to be used
with)."

To me it pretty explicitly looks like this regulation states that separate chargers are out of scope, so unless camera manufacturers and 3rd party equipment manufacturers both decide to abandon them all by themselves, they'll keep being available just as before.

 

[Steve Balcombe]

This is just a press release, and the wording of the first quoted paragraph suffers from being too concise. Two paragraphs later, we have:

"Regardless of their manufacturer, all new mobile phones, tablets, digital cameras, headphones and headsets, handheld videogame consoles and portable speakers, e-readers, keyboards, mice, portable navigation systems, earbuds and laptops that are rechargeable via a wired cable, operating with a power delivery of up to 100 Watts, will have to be equipped with a USB Type-C port."

The word "new" is still ambiguous. Does it mean "newly launched" or "newly manufactured"? The latter would also include new batches of older models.

Once again, it's a press release not a legal document. It's not as precise as we might wish.

"100 Watts" should be "100 watts" with a lower case "w". I expect the legal text gets this right - but the press release doesn't.

Regarding the other passage in bold text, if read literally, devices only using an external charger, or wireless charging, are out of scope of the directive. Likewise devices using a wired cable with power delivery exceeding 100 W. If this interpretation is correct, the directive does not make higher-powered charging illegal, as some people have feared. It's just that such devices are not required to have a USB-C port.

Yep, agreed.

I recently bought an Asus Zenbook Pro laptop, a 2023 model, which has a 200 W external power brick. But it also has a USB C (Thunderbolt) port which gives me Power Delivery charging if I want to leave the brick at home. Presumably up to 100 W with an appropriate charger and cable, I'd have to check. It's a great solution, but I'm not sure whether this will be mandated by the EU directive; for now it's just part of the excellent spec of this machine.