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DPReview readers are not typical DSLR users

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photoguynorth said:
but there are way too many posts talking
about 'green box' users like they are sub-human, and they all
should be using the camera like we do.
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When I bought my camera, I got a ticket to attend EOS Discovery Day in my area:

http://www.usa.canon.com/dlc/controller?act=CalendarEventOrganizationDetailAct&calendarEventOrganizationID=54

The focus of this class which is sponsored or run by Canon is to get away from the Green box. Even Canon believes that anybody who knows a little bit about how their camera works will stop using the green box.

BTW, this seminar is very good for beginners like me. They cover more than just functionality of the camera but how to take great pictures.
 
JohnAugust said:
Low light performance?
In green box mode, if I remember correctly, you're limited to ISO
400 and a minimum shutter speed of 1/60. In most low light
situations, your on-board flash will be used. The on-board flash,
when used as a primary light source, yields similar pictures to
your typical blownout P&S photos.
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My memory IS bad. Auto ISO is limited to ISO100-400, but I think you can still choose 800 and 1600 in green box mode?
 
I don't believe you can change the ISO whlie in "green box mode" . If you can, you can't do it by pressing the ISO button.

--
Gary H
 
I actually see the green box mode as being a great learning tool for someone who pays attention to what the camera is doing in this mode. The folks at Canon aren’t exactly dumb when it comes to photography and they have set up the auto mode in a logical way. By using the scene modes a new user can see how the camera responds to different situations and eventually learn what settings are best for those situations.

The auto modes are also good for those people who aren’t overly technical. Sometimes good pictures are more about the picture and less about the technical aspects of photography. If the green box mode can get the technical details close enough an inspired photographer which hasn’t learned all of the technical details of photography can still get the picture they have visualized when they raised their camera or at least pretty close to it.

Certainly there are many benefits to actually learning the technical details of photography but that doesn’t mean that people who have learned some of those details should look down on those who haven’t for whatever reason.

Certainly you do have a valid point though.

Greg

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http://www.pbase.com/dadas115/
 
First camera ever. Didn't know what aperture was, read the flimsy mini manual, but was in German, but the reason i bought it was i had tried my dad's P&S, and back then the lag was slow, i took one picture with a 300D of a collegue and decided that was what i wanted. ( pondered for month over the 300D or D70 while saving and the day i had the money the 350D was anounced) . After 18 months i had the money for my first lens, and only 3 months ago did i start playing with exposure compensation.

Last week a friend used my camera to take one picture, he never looked at the result, he just said he was amazed by the speed. Today he emailed me to ask me what camera i had, and if a Nikon D70 is a good second hand camera.

Some people suggest when you buy a dslr to put it in manual, and learn, i suggest put it in auto and have fun, the rest will come.
--
I decided to do photography as a hobby cause it's cheaper then golf
 
JohnAugust said:
So, what advantage does a have a DSLR have over a P&S for
photographer who only shoots in auto mode, doesn't do any post
processing, and doesn't plan on swapping lenses?
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Agree with what you laid out in your post. Few weeks ago was asked by friends for some DSLR advice / recommendations, upgrading from a P&S.

Based on the information I garnered from them - want to shoot good baby/child pics indoors (ie. low-light) - my thought was that maxing out their budget on a DSLR w/ kit lens wasn't going to produce any better pics if end up having to use the pop-up flash.

Suggested they consider looking at a non-DSLR such as the Fuji 9600 and using the money left-over to buy an external flash with bounce/swivel capability.

--
Good Day,
Roonal

'Money doesn't buy happiness, but it makes for an extravagant depression' by golf tournament sportscaster
 
Roonal said:
Suggested they consider looking at a non-DSLR such as the Fuji 9600
and using the money left-over to buy an external flash with
bounce/swivel capability.
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I think those Fuji cameras with nice high-ISO performance could be significant competition to the green box DSLR users.
 
If you think the Fuji 9600/9500 is going to give you DSLR performance then think again.

I very briefly had a Fuji 9500 & it was the most useless camera I have ever used.

Anything above 400 ISO was very very grainy.

The focus was slow & not accurate.

Manual focus was a joke.

If your thinking of buying that Fuji thinking it's almost a DSLR it will be a big mistake.

Go DSLR & never compare the 9500/9600 to the 400d as the 400d is leagues ahead.
 
Gary Hunt said:
If your thinking of buying that Fuji thinking it's almost a DSLR it
will be a big mistake.

Go DSLR & never compare the 9500/9600 to the 400d as the 400d is
leagues ahead.
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Ok, well, I'm personally not familiar with the Fuji 9500/9600. I guess I assumed that it was similar to the F40/F30 which has very good ISO performance up to about iso 800. Check out the reviews on this site. I think for somebody who is going to end up using a DSLR with the kit lens in green box mode, you would be better off with the Fuji F40.
 
Sorry my comments sound abit aggressive regards the 9500/9600.

A good point & shoot is a good option for many & I used one for years but I made the mistake of getting the Fuji 9500 thinking it's performance would be near a DSLR but I was very wrong & it had some good reviews, I think one was from here, but it was rubbish

Using the 400d or any DSLR with an Auto option gives beginners a chance to handle a DSLR it enables you to change lenses without the need to worry too much about the knobs & buttons then, if you wish, you can progress with it. If you only have a good P&S that's it no lens change then you find you need to buy a DSLR at more expense so using the 400d as a big P&S that allows you to change lenses is, in my view, a good idea for some that's why it's there.
 
husky91 said:
Ok, well, I'm personally not familiar with the Fuji 9500/9600. I
guess I assumed that it was similar to the F40/F30 which has very
good ISO performance up to about iso 800.
Click to expand...
Would seem from the review here of the 6000FD (same sensor as 9600?) that the image processing is not as good as with the F30

" What is strange is that the output is visibly different to the FinePix F30; and it's not as good, looking more processed and less detailed. This is particularly true of ISO 1600, and it seems to be related to the in-camera processing (the sensor is apparently the same) - processed raw files look a lot more like the F30's output. "

Quote from here:
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/fujifilms6000fd/page12.asp
husky91 said:
I think for somebody who is going to end up using a DSLR
with the kit lens in green box mode, you would be better off with
the Fuji F40.
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Is a DSLR better than a P&S? Not if I want something I can stick in my pocket and therefore won't otherwise take it.

I recently took some snapshots at a friend's cookout. I took my Pano F20 - Why? Because

1) of my cameras, it's the one I like the least

2) if a kid knocks it off a table I won't be bummed (well not as much if it was my 400D with a $250 lens)

3) it has live lcd view which actually came in handy for framing/capturing some of the action shots

4) I can compose/zoom in/zoom out and take the photo with one hand while holding a drink or whatever in my other hand.

Now would I try to shoot a wedding with the Pano F20 - of course not.

I'm of the opinion that there isn't one best all around camera - to some degree it's all a compromise of one fashion or another.

For someone on a set budget, and depending on the subjects, etc. they want to take pictures of I don't think a DSLR will "automatically" mean better results.

--
Good Day,
Roonal

'Money doesn't buy happiness, but it makes for an extravagant depression' by golf tournament sportscaster
 
I had a look at a P&S belonging to a friend today. I'd heard complaints about his picture taking. Someone picked up his camera and snapped a picture of me. I had one look at it, grimaced and promptlyl deleted it. Blown out, out of focus and generally awful.

Then I had another look at the camera. The front of the lens (protective glass in front of it?) seemed to have been rubbed by a finger. There was a ring of grease or whatever on the sides. Either the coating was rubbed off, or the grime made it look like it was rubbed off. No wonder he gets awful pictures! I don't know how advanced the camera is. Doesn't look like an advanced model. Even so, that thing takes awful pictures in general!

Guys, have a look at the cameras of your friends. I suspect you'll have more than one painful experience after looking at the lenses. The lens on my cell phone is spotless. I sincerely doubt the lenses on my friends' cell phones are the same (they got the same phone the same day I did).
 
Roonal said:
Is a DSLR better than a P&S? Not if I want something I can stick in
my pocket and therefore won't otherwise take it.
Click to expand...
I have a Powershot S40. It's a relatively advanced P&S. It was a good camera for me for years, while I was out of photography. I got tired of it when I started having battery issues, and I realized the first time I tried that it couldn't do backlit portraits.

I got my 400D because i needed to take backlit portraits - that's why I had to upgrade. While thinking about that, I realized I missed taking pictures seriously, and got serious about photography again.

But if I were to go on a fast paced trip all day, I wouldn't take the 400D unless the point was taking pictures. I'd take the S40 if I could get the battery issues under control. On a normal day I'm happy to carry only the cell phone.
 
well i for one am a brand new XTi user, i LOVE my camera so far having only taken a couple hundred pics but i do intend on learning the manual functions, i was ready to progress to a better camera with no shutter lag, changeable lenses etc and i KNOW i can work and learn to take beautiful photos, to be a better photographer,even if this is only an entry level DSLR its been my dream to have one for a few years now. i will be hanging around picking your brains because i DO want to learn.
--
CORRY
 
z_diver said:
Now that would be an interesting theme for a contest. MUST USE
GREEN MODE.
Click to expand...
They tried for a while here but the challenge petered out.
--
***********************************************************
Rudi - Phounder Of The Phart ... CATS member #100 > ^..^
My Homepage: http://www.pbase.com/rudiman
Favorites: http://www.pbase.com/rudiman/my_favorites
Everything in my galleries, God Made. Its just my job to show them.
***********************************************************
 
jsalt said:
I find there's one big problem with green box. A few times I have
handed the camera to friends so they can try it out. They start
pressing the buttons, and before you know it, the flash pops up,
making them -almost- drop the camera! (no one has actually dropped
it yet). Is it only my friends that are clumsy, or has this
happened to others? (That's why I always set the camera to P when
handing it to someone now)
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What makes me mad is when i'm not looking and trying to change my mode and accidentally put it in green box mode. The flash pops up and hits me between the eyes or hits my hat LOL.....shocks the poop out of me everytime.
--
***********************************************************
Rudi - Phounder Of The Phart ... CATS member #100 > ^..^
My Homepage: http://www.pbase.com/rudiman
Favorites: http://www.pbase.com/rudiman/my_favorites
Everything in my galleries, God Made. Its just my job to show them.
***********************************************************
 
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