?: Dedicated trigger vs. Speed Light as trigger

[greyhoundrick]

Thank you Klaus and thank you Tug for all of your help!

Im not a technical person at all and its people like you who really make it doable for guys like me!

best,

Rick

 

[Ed Shapiro]

Thanks so much Ed! Great stuff!








I used to use sync cords many years ago, but wasnt sure how to go about it with Godox lighting.

Is there a resource available that might explain exactly how to do it and what sync cord(s) would be required?

Thanks again,

Rick

It depens on the equipmet in use.

Some flash units have a synch socket to accept a 1/4" plugs as often seen on audio equipment- some have "H" terminal whic are houshold-like female sockets. A typical synch cord would have that kind of plug on one end and a PC male connector on the other end. Many camers still have a PC female terminals. If the camera does not have a PC terminal, there are hot shoe adapters that have symch terminal or otherwise connect directly to the flash unit . "PC" Stands for Prontor/Compur- European and Japaneses-made shutters had this standard synch socket wich became pretty standard on most cameras and shutters.

There are splitter cables that enable two flash units to connect to the camera, however, this can increase the trigger voltage and the Safe-Synch unit should be added to the circuit tp preclude camer damage.

Any flash unit can be SLAVED via an optical slave which is a photoelectric cell circuit that can be attached to any speedlight, monolight or central powr pack via the aforementioned adapters or existing sockets.

None of these connections will support TTL (etc) - you woud be oprtatiing in maulal mode. I am not advsinsg you to go to hard wiring as a standard procedure but in a hitch, when the high-tech malfunctions, you can work around the glitch and finish the job. I always have a few cords and slave cells in my kit. Many monolighs still feature built- in optical slave options.

I know this is terribly old school- it souds like hookg up a Gramaphone to your super souroud-soud stereo equipment. Relics fromthe past for sure, BUT most of ths suff is still available. It goes for a pittance on the used market and in an "emergency" it usually always works.




Typicla Synch Cord.




Hot Shoe/PC Adapter




Hot Shoe/PC Adapter






Optical Slave (Photoelectric) Triggers




Safe Synch- Reduces excessive trigger voltage.



Ed Shapiro- Commercial and Portrait Photographer. Ottawa, Ontario Canada

 

[Off The Mark]

I rarely have a misfire but as mentioned earlier, when I do it is extremely stressful. Ive only had to cancel two shoots because of the problem but Ive had my share of delays due to misfires.

If you have to cancel shoots due to misfires, then something is SERIOUSLY wrong with your equipment OR with your workflow.

When I have a solo portrait I usually will use the v860ii on camera in M mode and my AD200 Pro off camera. In my most recent shoot done outdoors in 65 degree clear weather I experienced a 10 minute period where my flashes didnt work at all. Both on and off camera. I switched from my R5 to my 5DMIV and same result.

After the 10 minute delay everything worked again without any hiccups for the rest of the shoot. All I did was re-boot workload.

A 10-minute delay is USUALLY due to overheating. You CAN overheat a flash gun in weather that is colder than 65 degrees (don't ask me how I know).

Are you by chance using your flash guns s in high speed sync (hss) mode? Because HSS mode will KILL your flash guns.

--
What Middle School Is Really Like:

 

[greyhoundrick]

I rarely have a misfire but as mentioned earlier, when I do it is extremely stressful. Ive only had to cancel two shoots because of the problem but Ive had my share of delays due to misfires.

If you have to cancel shoots due to misfires, then something is SERIOUSLY wrong with your equipment OR with your workflow.

Hi Off The Mark, thanks for your input, appreciate it! Ive had to cancel two shoots in 17 years of using strobes so while its not good to cancel one shoot, thats not the end of the world. However, it certainly was bad on those 2 days. In an attempt to make my eqt. function better I have tried many things suggested in this and other groups, many have been very helpful.

I had a shoot yesterday of about 2 hours and used the scan feature to select a channel and did not have a misfire so thats a good start. I have a wedding to shoot tomorrow and am pretty confident all will go well.

Im sure my workflow isn't perfect, but I think its been pretty good over the years. Always room for improvement thats for sure. Thanks again for the input!

When I have a solo portrait I usually will use the v860ii on camera in M mode and my AD200 Pro off camera. In my most recent shoot done outdoors in 65 degree clear weather I experienced a 10 minute period where my flashes didnt work at all. Both on and off camera. I switched from my R5 to my 5DMIV and same result.

After the 10 minute delay everything worked again without any hiccups for the rest of the shoot. All I did was re-boot workload.

A 10-minute delay is USUALLY due to overheating. You CAN overheat a flash gun in weather that is colder than 65 degrees (don't ask me how I know).

Are you by chance using your flash guns s in high speed sync (hss) mode? Because HSS mode will KILL your flash guns.

Thanks! Yes, could have very well been overheating as this happened after shooting for about and hour.

Also, I do use HSS most of the time although recently Ive been trying to keep my shutter speed down to my camera's sync speed of 1/250 while sometimes using an ND filter.

A quick question for you...If you have your flash in HSS mode but drop your shutter speed down to sync speed or below while you are shooting is the flash output going to be the same? IOW, firing in HSS mode at 1/250 vs. firing in non HSS mode at 1/250?

Thanks again!

Rick

 

[Off The Mark]

At max flash power, you would get more flash power from NON-hss vs hss at max flash power.

But it depends since you would have to add ND filters or stop down the aperture to get below the flash sync speed.

the tests i have seen online did show that it might be a good idea to use an ND filter or smaller aperture if only to help prevent your flash from going in to thermal protection mode, since hss really causes a flash to overheat quickly.

 

[Teila Day]

I rarely have a misfire but as mentioned earlier, when I do it is extremely stressful. Ive only had to cancel two shoots because of the problem but Ive had my share of delays due to misfires.

If you have to cancel shoots due to misfires, then something is SERIOUSLY wrong with your equipment OR with your workflow.

Hi Off The Mark, thanks for your input, appreciate it! Ive had to cancel two shoots in 17 years of using strobes so while its not good to cancel one shoot, thats not the end of the world. However, it certainly was bad on those 2 days. In an attempt to make my eqt. function better I have tried many things suggested in this and other groups, many have been very helpful.

I had a shoot yesterday of about 2 hours and used the scan feature to select a channel and did not have a misfire so thats a good start. I have a wedding to shoot tomorrow and am pretty confident all will go well.

Im sure my workflow isn't perfect, but I think its been pretty good over the years. Always room for improvement thats for sure. Thanks again for the input!

When I have a solo portrait I usually will use the v860ii on camera in M mode and my AD200 Pro off camera. In my most recent shoot done outdoors in 65 degree clear weather I experienced a 10 minute period where my flashes didnt work at all. Both on and off camera. I switched from my R5 to my 5DMIV and same result.

After the 10 minute delay everything worked again without any hiccups for the rest of the shoot. All I did was re-boot workload.

A 10-minute delay is USUALLY due to overheating. You CAN overheat a flash gun in weather that is colder than 65 degrees (don't ask me how I know).

Are you by chance using your flash guns s in high speed sync (hss) mode? Because HSS mode will KILL your flash guns.

Thanks! Yes, could have very well been overheating as this happened after shooting for about and hour.

Also, I do use HSS most of the time although recently Ive been trying to keep my shutter speed down to my camera's sync speed of 1/250 while sometimes using an ND filter.

A quick question for you...If you have your flash in HSS mode but drop your shutter speed down to sync speed or below while you are shooting is the flash output going to be the same? IOW, firing in HSS mode at 1/250 vs. firing in non HSS mode at 1/250?

Thanks again!

Rick

Some flashes (even those near 20 years old, e.g. Nikon SB-800, etc.) automatically switch from regular flash to HSS and back again based on whether the camera is set above the sync speed. At or below sync speed you get full flash; above sync speed you get HSS. Meaning you can't use either/or, at sync speed to my understanding.. you only get full flash. One (HSS) takes off where the other (full flash) leaves off. Isn't sync speed the demarcation line between regular flash and HSS?

Is that the case with the flash you're using?

 

[greyhoundrick]

At max flash power, you would get more flash power from NON-hss vs hss at max flash power.

But it depends since you would have to add ND filters or stop down the aperture to get below the flash sync speed.

the tests i have seen online did show that it might be a good idea to use an ND filter or smaller aperture if only to help prevent your flash from going in to thermal protection mode, since hss really causes a flash to overheat quickly.

Thanks so much!

 

[greyhoundrick]

I rarely have a misfire but as mentioned earlier, when I do it is extremely stressful. Ive only had to cancel two shoots because of the problem but Ive had my share of delays due to misfires.

If you have to cancel shoots due to misfires, then something is SERIOUSLY wrong with your equipment OR with your workflow.

Hi Off The Mark, thanks for your input, appreciate it! Ive had to cancel two shoots in 17 years of using strobes so while its not good to cancel one shoot, thats not the end of the world. However, it certainly was bad on those 2 days. In an attempt to make my eqt. function better I have tried many things suggested in this and other groups, many have been very helpful.

I had a shoot yesterday of about 2 hours and used the scan feature to select a channel and did not have a misfire so thats a good start. I have a wedding to shoot tomorrow and am pretty confident all will go well.

Im sure my workflow isn't perfect, but I think its been pretty good over the years. Always room for improvement thats for sure. Thanks again for the input!

When I have a solo portrait I usually will use the v860ii on camera in M mode and my AD200 Pro off camera. In my most recent shoot done outdoors in 65 degree clear weather I experienced a 10 minute period where my flashes didnt work at all. Both on and off camera. I switched from my R5 to my 5DMIV and same result.

After the 10 minute delay everything worked again without any hiccups for the rest of the shoot. All I did was re-boot workload.

A 10-minute delay is USUALLY due to overheating. You CAN overheat a flash gun in weather that is colder than 65 degrees (don't ask me how I know).

Are you by chance using your flash guns s in high speed sync (hss) mode? Because HSS mode will KILL your flash guns.

Thanks! Yes, could have very well been overheating as this happened after shooting for about and hour.

Also, I do use HSS most of the time although recently Ive been trying to keep my shutter speed down to my camera's sync speed of 1/250 while sometimes using an ND filter.

A quick question for you...If you have your flash in HSS mode but drop your shutter speed down to sync speed or below while you are shooting is the flash output going to be the same? IOW, firing in HSS mode at 1/250 vs. firing in non HSS mode at 1/250?

Thanks again!

Rick

Some flashes (even those near 20 years old, e.g. Nikon SB-800, etc.) automatically switch from regular flash to HSS and back again based on whether the camera is set above the sync speed. At or below sync speed you get full flash; above sync speed you get HSS. Meaning you can't use either/or, at sync speed to my understanding.. you only get full flash. One (HSS) takes off where the other (full flash) leaves off. Isn't sync speed the demarcation line between regular flash and HSS?

Is that the case with the flash you're using?

Thank you Teila Day! Appreciate your input!

With the Godox system using Canon cameras when I have the HSS turned on the icon stays displayed on the flash no matter what my shutter speed is. When I turn HSS off I am only able to shoot at max sync speed or lower.

I have tested the flash output with HSS on and off at the sync speed of my cameras and the output is virtually identical. The histogram is a bit more spread out without HSS but nothing of any substance.

Im going to try to stay away from HSS and use ND filters and see how it goes with regard to misfires.

Take care and thank you!

Rick

 

[Ed Shapiro]

;-)I am not an electronic engineer but I have been an electronic flash user for a very (VERY) long time and received my electronics education from the school of hard knocks. So here is my drill:

Nothing is perfect and completely foolproof- triggers, sync cords, manual and TTL features, special specs such as HHS, etc. Any of these things can break down and cause misfires, inaccuracies, and complete system failure. Soeof the stuff can literally burn out and/or blow up. Avoiding all these unfortunate occuraces is a matter of knowing your gear, how to maintain it, and waht are its attributes and limitations.

Flash manufacturers will issue specifications as to power output, angles of file coverage, guide numbers, and special features but few if any mention DUTY CYCLE, which is how long a time you can flas the unt, especially in HHS or rapid sequence, stroboscopic modes before it will go into heat protect mode or just become damage, overheat, burn out and quit. Speedligh is more subseptable to overheating because of its smaller linear flash tubes in an enclosed space and a lot of circuitry crammed into a small enclosure with little ventilation. If you do a lot of "spray and pray, HHS, and actual strobascopic effects these kinds of issues are more likely to occur. If you use all these settings frequently in extended duty cycles, you may need to consider heavier-duty equipment. More robust systems have Pyrex-enclosed helical or "U" shaped flas tubes which better disperse heat, fan cooling, and circuitry that is less likely to overheat.

This kind of hard usage can cause flash tubes to prematurely carbonize. Carbon from the electrodes that enter the tube and those electrodes begin to glow like tungsten filaments weh current is applied and will cause a red color shift. The xenon gas will still ionize and flash but the red bias will appear. The tube will eventually bun out.

Even sync cords and high-voltage cables are subject to damage. The contact of PC cords can become defo if stria relief is not applied. Constsn eccentric stria will cause erratic contact and can damage the ca, eras PC socket. HV cables can sust damage to the connectors if strain relef is not applied and on some unts the contact can arc and burn out if connected or disconnected when the unit is charged and ready to flash.

If you are going to use all these newfangled triggers and TTL interphases, MAKE sure that all of those gadgets are compatible with your camera model and flash gear. Know your settigs! The more you add to your system, the more can go out of adjustment. One mis-settling can shut down the system or cause exposure inaccuracies. A mistaken setting on a Speedlights can disable the TTL application with certain triggers- read the manual and learn the system thoroughly ir it will go South in the throws of an important shoot.

Stik to proper battery charging and replacement protocols. Keep the battery compartments and all the contacts clean. Dry run setup to make sure everything is good to go before the shoot begins- you will save yourself a lot of aggravation.

I am not pontificating or talking down at anyone- I know most of y'all know most of this stuff. I learnd some of these lessons the hard way so my tips and info are all based on my own rather upsettig screwups and the few occasions where I nearly electrocuted myself.;-)

Ed Shapiro- Commercial and Portrait Photographer. Ottawa, Ontario Canada

 

[greyhoundrick]

Hello everyone!

I wanted to give you an update on some input I received from Flashpoint at Adorama...

These are some tips that were given to me by Shua who is a very helpful member of the Flashpoint team:

If you are having misfires or they wont link:


•in each unit's menu, make sure ID is set to off
•please make sure you are NOT using rechargeable AA batteries in the transmitter, as they do not provide voltage properly for these types of radio transmitters.
•in the transmitter menu, change the DIST option to 0-30
•For mirrorless cameras, set the CAMERA’S shutter type to mechanical shutter. using Auto or electronic shutter can cause misfires with flash.
•Try changing the channel on all of your units to anything over 20 (of course all units need the same channel)

I shot a wedding over the weekend and the flashes all worked great!

Thanks again for all of your help with this!

best,

Rick

 

[Klaus dk]

Hello everyone!

I wanted to give you an update on some input I received from Flashpoint at Adorama...

These are some tips that were given to me by Shua who is a very helpful member of the Flashpoint team:

If you are having misfires or they wont link:

•in each unit's menu, make sure ID is set to off
•please make sure you are NOT using rechargeable AA batteries in the transmitter, as they do not provide voltage properly for these types of radio transmitters.
•in the transmitter menu, change the DIST option to 0-30
•For mirrorless cameras, set the CAMERA’S shutter type to mechanical shutter. using Auto or electronic shutter can cause misfires with flash.
•Try changing the channel on all of your units to anything over 20 (of course all units need the same channel)

I shot a wedding over the weekend and the flashes all worked great!

Thanks again for all of your help with this!

best,

Rick

Thank you for sharing.