D3 X Just cant wait.....

This is not according to me...... this is based upon
a side by side test that was published in PROFI -foto
a german well known mag that made a side by side
test of film versus digital and yes apart from a different
contrast curve we can see that 21-24 mp cameras in digital
are resolution vise at the same level as 5x7 inch film.
The tested 8 x 10 inch outperformed even the 39 mp
digital backs but not by much.
Plus they stated that there are not many people and
places that let you scan at that quality level left.
I needs the best drum scanners and quitwe an amount
of expertise to get to the same level as digital media !
no hoax ! ; )
Peter
 
...in the mind of the art director, otherwise they'd be happy with 6mp cameras. A lot of the digital in National Geo, back when digital was breaking into their lineup, was shot at 6mp, and now with higher mp cameras gets cropped to about 6mp, and they have probably the highest resolution printing process out there.

I tried to argue with a couple of art directors when the D2x came out, that the 10mp D200 was perfectly fine. I really don't like the extra bulk of the D2X, just as I didn't like the extra bulk of the F4 and F5. Unfortunately there was (still is) a large contingent of art directors (and a few stock houses) who didn't trust their eyes, and I ended up owning D2X. A few of the insistent art directors were working for magazines that I thought had laughably bad quality control in printing - regional free distribution promotional magazines. They swore that the 2mp difference was life or death. MY life or death if I ever wanted to sell them anything.

The eyes of the reader don't matter to a photographer as much as the eyes and biases of the people who pay the photographers. There are magazines (architectural, generally) that still insist that anything less than 4x5 sheet film, drum scanned, will look inferior in their magazines.

It is like I tell my kids about "house rules" - he who owns the house makes the rules, logical or not.
The people who buy the magazines, (and they are the ones who count),
cannot see the difference between 12 megapixels and 24 megapixels.
You need to get much larger than 2 page mag spreads to reap any
significant benefit of more megapixels.
20 X 30 landscapes? Yes, and a totally different arena.
--
Mel
http://www.mellockhartphotography.zenfolio.com
http://www.mellockhartphotography.com
 
You know Peter,

For some odd, strange reason, I still have my Mamyia 6x7 camera and lenses. I've believed for a long time that this camera will produce landscape images for me far better than my D2x would be able to produce. And although I do not yet own a D3, I see the D3 as being not very different than that of my D2x - resolution wise. So I've kind-a kept the 6x7 on the shelf, collecting dust.

Besides the 6x7 being more cumbersome, to digitize the images, I must go through a lot. I must first have the 120 film processed & pay for that, but I then must somehow scan the chosen frames of images into the computer. To do this, since I don't have a drum scanning machine, I use a Nikon Super Coolscan 8000 - which sits here by my elbow, collecting dust.

Well, the problem often is - is that the scanned image (at the highest resolution the machine can provide to me): 1) takes almost forever to produce (per image);

often contains hordes of dust (which I was not able to see on the neg/slide); and the resulting image quality is really not that much different than that I produce on my D2x - though is sometimes worse (primarily due to the focusing process on the Coolscan 8000 machine).

I'm not able to afford to send off my images to be drum-scanned each time. And I'm in no way yet able to afford a MF digital back. So right now, I'm loosing out. But what I can dream about is a D3X - which in a way, will help to propel me into a different market - or client base, if you will.

However, I'm also one to believe that MF & LF digital will always have their own market and will always exceed 35mm in terms of resolution. But for me, I don't right now have that client base. Most of my current clients are even happy with images I've produced with my D2h. And many of my images have gone into magazines. For this month, I have my first ever cover - on an international magazine. I'm very much excited about this.

marc
 
"It is like I tell my kids about "house rules" - he who owns the house makes the rules, logical or not."

Perhaps your kids are diplomatically trying to tell you that you aren't very logical. Do you have to tell this to your wife too? Or... perhaps you're relaying to your kids the flack you're getting from your wife :-) :-) :-)

marc
 
I agree that the ADs are currently driving the demand for more and more pixels, but it's funny to me how some of the same guys who want 12mp and then 20mp want those pixels, but not at the price of excellent quality pixels - they'll pay enough for digital SLR pixels but not enough for medium format digital pixels. Beer budget, champagne tastes.

There's a local "puff piece" business magazine, distributed for free, that thinks that only 20mp will do for their pages, but at their print quality you'd be challenged to tell the difference between a 6mp file and a 20mp file. I had a record company complaining that a 12mp file was really cutting it close - for an image that would be produced covering a quarter of the CD booklet page.

I think we'll see some leveling off of the craziness as people in the production chain start to understand the economics of having all your files be 16 bit 24mp. The bean counters will scream about the costs of storage, which are a lot higher than most people think since if you're doing it correctly, you have at least three backups of the original file and several of the production ready alternatives. I've seen a couple of articles by professional photographers (remember one by Vince Laforet) who shoot Canons where they talk about how they don't use their 20mp monster bodies except when specifically requested by a client, and shoot all of their spec and stock with the 5d - the economics of storing and managing the 20mp files are out of whack with what most buyers will pay for.

I'm sure there'll be somebody on the forum who'll rave on about how storage is cheap, quality is everything, etc, but that is generally the sound of someone who doesn't see photography as a business. It's a bankruptcy strategy to pour money into equipment and infrastructure at a rate that can't be matched by what the market will pay. There's a reason that the market for medium format backs is small...

Somewhere along the way I think that just like with film, the bean counters will put their heavy hands on the shoulders of the art directors, and suddenly 12mp will seem like more than enough.

There will always be publications where economics doesn't matter, and they'll keep paying for sheet film and drum scanning (although as one poster noted here, the demand for drum scanning is so low that now it's hard to find people skilled enough to get the max results.)
Well not quite.......
I didnt have a D3X and did manage...... but many clients are asking
for the 24 Mp pixel count and then there is double pages A3.
While my lighting comes out of studio strobes - I have plenty of them
and my lenses are prime lenses - old but plenty of them .... low light
isnt my main thing !
So some people say there isnt a market for the high pixel count....
THERE IS !
Its the art directors and the advertismemnt agencies that are into high
pixel count !
They want medium format backs and maybe ... I say maybe will be
convinced
by the new generation high pixel cameras.
ITS ALL ABOUT SELLING YOUR CROP !
Its simple mathematics ...... 12mp just doesnt sum up to a double
page ; )
Peter
 
Thats why a 24 mp camera is not for everyday use.
But its fantastic to have for the assignments that need for
them.
I will do most of my everyday work with 10mp and 12 mp and
even sometimes downsize but when I have to I will use 24 mp
Peter
 
Ask these art directors what resolution their printers print their magazines at.... 120 to 175 lpi?? At that resolution, the D3 shoots BETTER pictures then they can print... They just don't know what they are talking about and are just wanting to sound "smart" by throwing in "more mega pixels".... but in so doing are actually sounding very dumb!!

I can print 16x20 enlargements from the "lousy" 10 MP D200 (yes, we also have the D3) in astounding quality... Show me the magazines that are that big...
 
Ahhhh....

I've got one above you!...

For the longest time, I was making 24x36" posters from my D2h.
And sometimes, I still do!!!

:-)
marc
 
Depends on the quality of the mag !
those glossy mags just wont let you print double page with 10mp !
Its not what YOU want !
Its what THEY want !
Peter
 
Now, I'm siding with Peter:

Peter & I are both photogs and each of us would like to submit images to the same magazine. Peter's work is really good. In fact, it's been argued that his work is a little better than mine (it's basically because he shaved this morning - and I didn't :-) Peter has one of those new D3's. But me? I have one of those new D3Xes.

Can you take a stab at which one of us the magazine will want most to see the image from. Both of our images are of the same dining room table and chairs.

marc
 
Very simple !
if its oned of these fussy mags and fussy art directors
and even more fussy graphics people your
not going to get a chance with the D3.
No 20 MP no editorial !
And they are used to MF digital backs in the first place!
some even go as far as just want to have raw !
Peter
 
Well, actually, perhaps my argument above is not an overly good one, as the D3 & D3x will no doubt have two distinctly different roles. But my point being, an architectural type magazine (let's say Architectural Digest, or Southern Living), who normally requires its photogs to utilize a 6x7 camera, would perhaps permit them to instead use a 1DsM3 or D3x for particular assignments. But this magazine would likely not permit its photogs to submit such an image from a D2x or D3, for example.

A different magazine (let's say Sports Illustrated, or Professional Pilot) would likely accept an awe-inspiring image from a D2h.

I think it'd boil down to the way the magazine wants to market itself. I DON'T think it boils down to some fogy art director wanting the most mega-pixels. I'm sure a high-end upper-class life-style type magazine would want to be able to divulge to its readers "We use the highest grade possible equipment to obtain our images" - meaning image resolution.

However, from my experience, this is not so regarding all magazines. Like most of use here, I've seen some absolute c*ap in numerous magazines. I sometimes look at some images and want to 'toss my cookies.'

marc
 
AD mgazine is a bad example as it is one of the good
magazienes ... and I had a full page picture ad from an D70
picture I made a few years ago..... and that of a piece of jewlery
was tack sharp in print (German - AD Nr 68 page 135- green turquois necklace)!
but that was before the D2xs even came out and most slr digitals had
6 MP !
Many other mags do give you a headache some times though !
Peter
 
where are the "specs" for the D3x.

24mp and what else?
This thread is about beeing able to have good use for
a 24MP camera ...... this is not a thread that says .... WE CAN READ
the future in the hand of somebody !
What would you expect that camera to be different then the D3 ?
more Pixels smaller pixel size ... less pictures per second I would guess !
Apart from that I dont want to speculate any further !
The 24 MP is said to be in the new firmware as is the name.....
I didnt find that ! ; )
but what the people published its black on white !
Peter
 
Mr. Peter, don't muddy the waters!

Making an ad to be inserted into a magazine (even if full page) is a different story all together. Likely, the only requirement there will be to meet a certain quality standard, as set by the magazine: the ad needs to look on par with the quality of the other ads.

But here, the magazine simply wants your ad, regardless - as it means money to the magazine. The magazine is NOT going to ask you what kind of equipment you used to make your ad or the advertising agency's ad. The magazine wants you to give them some money and then they'll stick your ad within their pages (that is if you give them enough money :-)

But if a magazine hires you or me to go out and photo the interior of someone's elegant house, thereby producing images to compliment someone else’s story (or even your own) - they're more apt to say, "Oh... and Peter, what kind of camera are you going to be using? You WILL be using your new D3X, RIGHT?"

well, you get my point.
marc
 

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