"Crop mode" in A7CII vs. A7CR - a little rant

[Ralf B]

Biased rant disclaimer: A7CII (and A7IV) shooter posting here

The 61MP A7CR is often referred to as having "two cameras in one body" thanks to its APS-C crop mode, especially when discussing which of the 2 current A7C series one should purchase. Just as if the A7CII does not offer such "crop mode". Tech fact:
Both cams offer an in-cam "crop" or more precise, an APS-C crop mode.

1. The A7CR yields roughly 26 MP in APS-C
2. The A7CII yields roughly 14.6 MP in APS-C

One may argue that the A7CII APS-C crop mode falls kind of short compared to that in the A7CR, simply because 26MP is "better" than 14.6MP. So, does the A7CII not provide "two cameras in one body"?

Call me an old fart, but I still remember the A4 prints from my 6MP KM5D (yes, still around, stills works without the dreaded FFB (First Frame Black) issue), and its pics still look great WRT resolution watched on a 4k-LCD 3 chip native JVC Home Theater projector on an 120" screen or LG 65" MLA-OLED. Not to mention the 12MP files from the a700 or the 16 MP files from the a55 - and that is before cropping the crap out to the desired final framing. And didn't I dare to use the meager 10.6MP APS-C mode on the a900 and a99?

Long rant short: A7CII (and A7IV) shooters, switch on "APS-C" mode to benefit from on-LCD/EVF framing support, more "reach" without a lens switch, enjoy that 2nd cam in one body and go take APS-C framed pictures!

Biased rant mode - cropped off. ;-)

Cheers,
Ralf

 

[CamerEyes]

Biased rant disclaimer: A7CII (and A7IV) shooter posting here

The 61MP A7CR is often referred to as having "two cameras in one body" thanks to its APS-C crop mode, especially when discussing which of the 2 current A7C series one should purchase. Just as if the A7CII does not offer such "crop mode". Tech fact:
Both cams offer an in-cam "crop" or more precise, an APS-C crop mode.

1. The A7CR yields roughly 26 MP in APS-C
2. The A7CII yields roughly 14.6 MP in APS-C

One may argue that the A7CII APS-C crop mode falls kind of short compared to that in the A7CR, simply because 26MP is "better" than 14.6MP. So, does the A7CII not provide "two cameras in one body"?

Call me an old fart, but I still remember the A4 prints from my 6MP KM5D (yes, still around, stills works without the dreaded FFB (First Frame Black) issue), and its pics still look great WRT resolution watched on a 4k-LCD 3 chip native JVC Home Theater projector on an 120" screen or LG 65" MLA-OLED. Not to mention the 12MP files from the a700 or the 16 MP files from the a55 - and that is before cropping the crap out to the desired final framing. And didn't I dare to use the meager 10.6MP APS-C mode on the a900 and a99?

Long rant short: A7CII (and A7IV) shooters, switch on "APS-C" mode to benefit from on-LCD/EVF framing support, more "reach" without a lens switch, enjoy that 2nd cam in one body and go take APS-C framed pictures!

Biased rant mode - cropped off. ;-)

Cheers,
Ralf

And yet some of my industrial clients are not going to accept any submission smaller than 25-30mp. So for me, there is simply no comparison between the cropped mode output of the 7Cii and 7CR especially as I am now seeing an increasing demand for high MP images from paying customers.

The 7Cii btw is a superb camera. I used it for almost a year and I was always wowed by its image quality.

 

[RealWorldPhoto]

And yet some of my industrial clients are not going to accept any submission smaller than 25-30mp. So for me, there is simply no comparison between the cropped mode output of the 7Cii and 7CR especially as I am now seeing an increasing demand for high MP images from paying customers.

The 7Cii btw is a superb camera. I used it for almost a year and I was always wowed by its image quality.

The files from any full frame camera can be upscaled to 200% without any visible loss of quality. Of cause a denser sensor might show a tad more fine detail if camera technique is perfect, but then you need to be a hard core pixel peepers. Clients are aware of and pay for content, not single pixels.

 

[CamerEyes]

And yet some of my industrial clients are not going to accept any submission smaller than 25-30mp. So for me, there is simply no comparison between the cropped mode output of the 7Cii and 7CR especially as I am now seeing an increasing demand for high MP images from paying customers.

The 7Cii btw is a superb camera. I used it for almost a year and I was always wowed by its image quality.

The files from any full frame camera can be upscaled to 200% without any visible loss of quality. Of cause a denser sensor might show a tad more fine detail if camera technique is perfect, but then you need to be a hard core pixel peepers. Clients are aware of and pay for content, not single pixels.

Of course that is possible. However, I am not forgetting that most clients are also always rushing, so who has the time to upscale images when there is a camera available for desired outputs with minimal post processing?

Never assume your clients and mine are alike btw. Post your own take on your own clients.

There is VISIBLE image quality gap between upscaled images and native high reso images, btw. Let's not kid ourselves.

 

[dmanthree]

Biased rant disclaimer: A7CII (and A7IV) shooter posting here

The 61MP A7CR is often referred to as having "two cameras in one body" thanks to its APS-C crop mode, especially when discussing which of the 2 current A7C series one should purchase. Just as if the A7CII does not offer such "crop mode". Tech fact:
Both cams offer an in-cam "crop" or more precise, an APS-C crop mode.

1. The A7CR yields roughly 26 MP in APS-C
2. The A7CII yields roughly 14.6 MP in APS-C

One may argue that the A7CII APS-C crop mode falls kind of short compared to that in the A7CR, simply because 26MP is "better" than 14.6MP. So, does the A7CII not provide "two cameras in one body"?

Call me an old fart, but I still remember the A4 prints from my 6MP KM5D (yes, still around, stills works without the dreaded FFB (First Frame Black) issue), and its pics still look great WRT resolution watched on a 4k-LCD 3 chip native JVC Home Theater projector on an 120" screen or LG 65" MLA-OLED. Not to mention the 12MP files from the a700 or the 16 MP files from the a55 - and that is before cropping the crap out to the desired final framing. And didn't I dare to use the meager 10.6MP APS-C mode on the a900 and a99?

Long rant short: A7CII (and A7IV) shooters, switch on "APS-C" mode to benefit from on-LCD/EVF framing support, more "reach" without a lens switch, enjoy that 2nd cam in one body and go take APS-C framed pictures!

Biased rant mode - cropped off. ;-)

Cheers,
Ralf

For me the answer is the usual "what works for you." All FF cameras can be cropped, so if a 6MP crop is all you need, so be it. Use what works for you.

 

[A74Me]

Biased rant disclaimer: A7CII (and A7IV) shooter posting here

The 61MP A7CR is often referred to as having "two cameras in one body" thanks to its APS-C crop mode, especially when discussing which of the 2 current A7C series one should purchase. Just as if the A7CII does not offer such "crop mode". Tech fact:
Both cams offer an in-cam "crop" or more precise, an APS-C crop mode.

1. The A7CR yields roughly 26 MP in APS-C
2. The A7CII yields roughly 14.6 MP in APS-C

One may argue that the A7CII APS-C crop mode falls kind of short compared to that in the A7CR, simply because 26MP is "better" than 14.6MP. So, does the A7CII not provide "two cameras in one body"?

Call me an old fart, but I still remember the A4 prints from my 6MP KM5D (yes, still around, stills works without the dreaded FFB (First Frame Black) issue), and its pics still look great WRT resolution watched on a 4k-LCD 3 chip native JVC Home Theater projector on an 120" screen or LG 65" MLA-OLED. Not to mention the 12MP files from the a700 or the 16 MP files from the a55 - and that is before cropping the crap out to the desired final framing. And didn't I dare to use the meager 10.6MP APS-C mode on the a900 and a99?

Long rant short: A7CII (and A7IV) shooters, switch on "APS-C" mode to benefit from on-LCD/EVF framing support, more "reach" without a lens switch, enjoy that 2nd cam in one body and go take APS-C framed pictures!

Biased rant mode - cropped off. ;-)

Cheers,
Ralf

i have printed a 7x5 foot print from my pentax K7 14 meg sensor so crop mode on my a7iv is plenty for any size print i will ever do.

 

[RealWorldPhoto]

There is VISIBLE image quality gap between upscaled images and native high reso images, btw. Let's not kid ourselves.

Fooling yourself here? Read what I wrote:

Of cause a denser sensor might show a tad more fine detail if camera technique is perfect, but then you need to be a hard core pixel peepers.

 

[Impulses]

That's fair, I think some enthusiasts actually underestimate the impact of Sony going to 33MP as their base sensor... Yeah it didn't get any faster and that sucks, but to the average buyer (and for practical purposes) ~15MP in crop mode sounds nicer than ~11MP (out of 24MP sensors). TBH I crop heavily even into my old M4/3 16MP sensor images, often down to 7-9MP, with good glass shots can still look great.

 

[jhunna]

Some of my favorite photos were taken on an A7C and the 1655G this 8MP photos were fine.

 

[Lichtspiel]

Call me an old fart?

Long rant short: A7CII (and A7IV) shooters, switch on "APS-C" mode to benefit from on-LCD/EVF framing support, more "reach" without a lens switch, enjoy that 2nd cam in one body and go take APS-C framed pictures!

Biased rant mode - cropped off. ;-)

Cheers,
Ralf

By that logic, the CR let's me enjoy 3 cameras in one body! Or four, if I am content with 6MP images. What a wonderful world we live in! So'n Quatsch!

 

[Planterz]

Long rant short: A7CII (and A7IV) shooters, switch on "APS-C" mode to benefit from on-LCD/EVF framing support, more "reach" without a lens switch, enjoy that 2nd cam in one body and go take APS-C framed pictures!

I really don't see the purpose of cropping in-body to APS-C mode to gain more "reach". But then, I don't have much of an artistic "eye" for framing within the viewfinder, and I'd rather just crop a full-size image after the fact. Thus, I don't see cropping in-body as giving you the 2-in-one advantage. Instead, it's the smaller/lighter/cheaper APS-C lenses that you can use instead. Compare the Sigma f2.8 10-18mm to the Sony f2.8 16-25mm G. The popular 70-350mm gives you a 105-525mm field of view being quite a bit smaller and lighter than a 100-400mm and way smaller than the Tamron 150-500mm or Sony 200-600mm or the 600mm Sigmas.

The 33mp sensor in APS-C mode is 14.67mp. A 2K TV has 3.7mp and a 4K TV is 8.3mp. If you're uploading to Facebook, resolution gets cut way lower than that.

 

[chrisfisheye]

Hi,

With your logic, we could say that A7CR is the equivalent of 3 cameras in 1 body while the A7CII is "only" 2 cameras.

What I mean is that A7CR has still the lead, at least concerning resolution.

 

[Ralf B]

By that logic, the CR let's me enjoy 3 cameras in one body! Or four, if I am content with 6MP images. What a wonderful world we live in!
So'n Quatsch!

That!
Cheers,
Ralf

 

[James Stirling]

Call me an old fart?

Long rant short: A7CII (and A7IV) shooters, switch on "APS-C" mode to benefit from on-LCD/EVF framing support, more "reach" without a lens switch, enjoy that 2nd cam in one body and go take APS-C framed pictures!

Biased rant mode - cropped off. ;-)

Cheers,
Ralf

By that logic, the CR let's me enjoy 3 cameras in one body! Or four, if I am content with 6MP images. What a wonderful world we live in! So'n Quatsch!

With some software chicanery it is quite interesting what can be done with cropping. I would no go the this far but I think it would make an ok print

A7cr downsized full scene to show area cropped



Output at 18x12"







--
Jim Stirling:
"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason, is like administering medicine to the dead." - Thomas Paine
Feel free to tinker with any photos I post

 

[Mike Fewster]

Long rant short: A7CII (and A7IV) shooters, switch on "APS-C" mode to benefit from on-LCD/EVF framing support, more "reach" without a lens switch, enjoy that 2nd cam in one body and go take APS-C framed pictures!

I really don't see the purpose of cropping in-body to APS-C mode to gain more "reach". But then, I don't have much of an artistic "eye" for framing within the viewfinder, and I'd rather just crop a full-size image after the fact. Thus, I don't see cropping in-body as giving you the 2-in-one advantage. Instead, it's the smaller/lighter/cheaper APS-C lenses that you can use instead. Compare the Sigma f2.8 10-18mm to the Sony f2.8 16-25mm G. The popular 70-350mm gives you a 105-525mm field of view being quite a bit smaller and lighter than a 100-400mm and way smaller than the Tamron 150-500mm or Sony 200-600mm or the 600mm Sigmas.

The 33mp sensor in APS-C mode is 14.67mp. A 2K TV has 3.7mp and a 4K TV is 8.3mp. If you're uploading to Facebook, resolution gets cut way lower than that.

I think the advantage of crop mode is when using APS-C lens on the FF camera. You can see without the vignetting edges. With a FF lens on a FF body, I will be aware that I might want to crop but I'll be doing it PP.

 

[deednets]

Biased rant disclaimer: A7CII (and A7IV) shooter posting here

The 61MP A7CR is often referred to as having "two cameras in one body" thanks to its APS-C crop mode, especially when discussing which of the 2 current A7C series one should purchase. Just as if the A7CII does not offer such "crop mode". Tech fact:
Both cams offer an in-cam "crop" or more precise, an APS-C crop mode.

1. The A7CR yields roughly 26 MP in APS-C
2. The A7CII yields roughly 14.6 MP in APS-C

One may argue that the A7CII APS-C crop mode falls kind of short compared to that in the A7CR, simply because 26MP is "better" than 14.6MP. So, does the A7CII not provide "two cameras in one body"?

Call me an old fart, but I still remember the A4 prints from my 6MP KM5D (yes, still around, stills works without the dreaded FFB (First Frame Black) issue), and its pics still look great WRT resolution watched on a 4k-LCD 3 chip native JVC Home Theater projector on an 120" screen or LG 65" MLA-OLED. Not to mention the 12MP files from the a700 or the 16 MP files from the a55 - and that is before cropping the crap out to the desired final framing. And didn't I dare to use the meager 10.6MP APS-C mode on the a900 and a99?

Long rant short: A7CII (and A7IV) shooters, switch on "APS-C" mode to benefit from on-LCD/EVF framing support, more "reach" without a lens switch, enjoy that 2nd cam in one body and go take APS-C framed pictures!

Biased rant mode - cropped off. ;-)

Cheers,
Ralf

And yet some of my industrial clients are not going to accept any submission smaller than 25-30mp. So for me, there is simply no comparison between the cropped mode output of the 7Cii and 7CR especially as I am now seeing an increasing demand for high MP images from paying customers.

The 7Cii btw is a superb camera. I used it for almost a year and I was always wowed by its image quality.

You do realize that people here or photographers in general don't always work for industrial clients?

Phase One users might just shake their heads regarding kleinbild for industrial customers

Call me ignorant, but I actually find the per-pixel sharpness of the 33Mpx sensor more appealing than the 60.002Mpx sensor. To an extent that I am currently thinking about replacing my A7RV with an FX2. The EVF, you know?? Don't shoot for industrial clients so should be fine!!

Deed

 

[deednets]

Biased rant disclaimer: A7CII (and A7IV) shooter posting here

The 61MP A7CR is often referred to as having "two cameras in one body" thanks to its APS-C crop mode, especially when discussing which of the 2 current A7C series one should purchase. Just as if the A7CII does not offer such "crop mode". Tech fact:
Both cams offer an in-cam "crop" or more precise, an APS-C crop mode.

1. The A7CR yields roughly 26 MP in APS-C
2. The A7CII yields roughly 14.6 MP in APS-C

One may argue that the A7CII APS-C crop mode falls kind of short compared to that in the A7CR, simply because 26MP is "better" than 14.6MP. So, does the A7CII not provide "two cameras in one body"?

Call me an old fart, but I still remember the A4 prints from my 6MP KM5D (yes, still around, stills works without the dreaded FFB (First Frame Black) issue), and its pics still look great WRT resolution watched on a 4k-LCD 3 chip native JVC Home Theater projector on an 120" screen or LG 65" MLA-OLED. Not to mention the 12MP files from the a700 or the 16 MP files from the a55 - and that is before cropping the crap out to the desired final framing. And didn't I dare to use the meager 10.6MP APS-C mode on the a900 and a99?

Long rant short: A7CII (and A7IV) shooters, switch on "APS-C" mode to benefit from on-LCD/EVF framing support, more "reach" without a lens switch, enjoy that 2nd cam in one body and go take APS-C framed pictures!

Biased rant mode - cropped off. ;-)

Cheers,
Ralf

I am currently pondering the A7CII as I actually prefer the 33Mpx sensor over the 60Mpx one. Have also used APS-C mode without any issues. Some of my monkey shots were taken in APS-C mode with the A7IV ...

So, ranting with you all the way

Deed

 

[jhunna]

Biased rant disclaimer: A7CII (and A7IV) shooter posting here

The 61MP A7CR is often referred to as having "two cameras in one body" thanks to its APS-C crop mode, especially when discussing which of the 2 current A7C series one should purchase. Just as if the A7CII does not offer such "crop mode". Tech fact:
Both cams offer an in-cam "crop" or more precise, an APS-C crop mode.

1. The A7CR yields roughly 26 MP in APS-C
2. The A7CII yields roughly 14.6 MP in APS-C

One may argue that the A7CII APS-C crop mode falls kind of short compared to that in the A7CR, simply because 26MP is "better" than 14.6MP. So, does the A7CII not provide "two cameras in one body"?

Call me an old fart, but I still remember the A4 prints from my 6MP KM5D (yes, still around, stills works without the dreaded FFB (First Frame Black) issue), and its pics still look great WRT resolution watched on a 4k-LCD 3 chip native JVC Home Theater projector on an 120" screen or LG 65" MLA-OLED. Not to mention the 12MP files from the a700 or the 16 MP files from the a55 - and that is before cropping the crap out to the desired final framing. And didn't I dare to use the meager 10.6MP APS-C mode on the a900 and a99?

Long rant short: A7CII (and A7IV) shooters, switch on "APS-C" mode to benefit from on-LCD/EVF framing support, more "reach" without a lens switch, enjoy that 2nd cam in one body and go take APS-C framed pictures!

Biased rant mode - cropped off. ;-)

Cheers,
Ralf

I am currently pondering the A7CII as I actually prefer the 33Mpx sensor over the 60Mpx one. Have also used APS-C mode without any issues. Some of my monkey shots were taken in APS-C mode with the A7IV ...

So, ranting with you all the way

Deed

What do you like about the 33mp sensor over the 60mp ? I agree that fx2 is a compelling device.

 

[deednets]

Biased rant disclaimer: A7CII (and A7IV) shooter posting here

The 61MP A7CR is often referred to as having "two cameras in one body" thanks to its APS-C crop mode, especially when discussing which of the 2 current A7C series one should purchase. Just as if the A7CII does not offer such "crop mode". Tech fact:
Both cams offer an in-cam "crop" or more precise, an APS-C crop mode.

1. The A7CR yields roughly 26 MP in APS-C
2. The A7CII yields roughly 14.6 MP in APS-C

One may argue that the A7CII APS-C crop mode falls kind of short compared to that in the A7CR, simply because 26MP is "better" than 14.6MP. So, does the A7CII not provide "two cameras in one body"?

Call me an old fart, but I still remember the A4 prints from my 6MP KM5D (yes, still around, stills works without the dreaded FFB (First Frame Black) issue), and its pics still look great WRT resolution watched on a 4k-LCD 3 chip native JVC Home Theater projector on an 120" screen or LG 65" MLA-OLED. Not to mention the 12MP files from the a700 or the 16 MP files from the a55 - and that is before cropping the crap out to the desired final framing. And didn't I dare to use the meager 10.6MP APS-C mode on the a900 and a99?

Long rant short: A7CII (and A7IV) shooters, switch on "APS-C" mode to benefit from on-LCD/EVF framing support, more "reach" without a lens switch, enjoy that 2nd cam in one body and go take APS-C framed pictures!

Biased rant mode - cropped off. ;-)

Cheers,
Ralf

I am currently pondering the A7CII as I actually prefer the 33Mpx sensor over the 60Mpx one. Have also used APS-C mode without any issues. Some of my monkey shots were taken in APS-C mode with the A7IV ...

So, ranting with you all the way

Deed

What do you like about the 33mp sensor over the 60mp ? I agree that fx2 is a compelling device.

I think since the pixels are larger it may have an impact on per pixel acuity.




A7IV plus Sigma 90/2.8

I had the same impression when I upgraded from my RX1 and RX1R to the 42Mpx RX1RII: more resolution but not the same quality.

And also when I compared to my X-T5 results to my X-Pro3 results ... I think there's a sweet spot somewhere.

Deed

 

[A74Me]

Biased rant disclaimer: A7CII (and A7IV) shooter posting here

The 61MP A7CR is often referred to as having "two cameras in one body" thanks to its APS-C crop mode, especially when discussing which of the 2 current A7C series one should purchase. Just as if the A7CII does not offer such "crop mode". Tech fact:
Both cams offer an in-cam "crop" or more precise, an APS-C crop mode.

1. The A7CR yields roughly 26 MP in APS-C
2. The A7CII yields roughly 14.6 MP in APS-C

One may argue that the A7CII APS-C crop mode falls kind of short compared to that in the A7CR, simply because 26MP is "better" than 14.6MP. So, does the A7CII not provide "two cameras in one body"?

Call me an old fart, but I still remember the A4 prints from my 6MP KM5D (yes, still around, stills works without the dreaded FFB (First Frame Black) issue), and its pics still look great WRT resolution watched on a 4k-LCD 3 chip native JVC Home Theater projector on an 120" screen or LG 65" MLA-OLED. Not to mention the 12MP files from the a700 or the 16 MP files from the a55 - and that is before cropping the crap out to the desired final framing. And didn't I dare to use the meager 10.6MP APS-C mode on the a900 and a99?

Long rant short: A7CII (and A7IV) shooters, switch on "APS-C" mode to benefit from on-LCD/EVF framing support, more "reach" without a lens switch, enjoy that 2nd cam in one body and go take APS-C framed pictures!

Biased rant mode - cropped off. ;-)

Cheers,
Ralf

I am currently pondering the A7CII as I actually prefer the 33Mpx sensor over the 60Mpx one. Have also used APS-C mode without any issues. Some of my monkey shots were taken in APS-C mode with the A7IV ...

So, ranting with you all the way

Deed

What do you like about the 33mp sensor over the 60mp ? I agree that fx2 is a compelling device.

the fx2 sure does