Challenge 24 vote observation (problem ?)

[Yanny]

One photo should be posted per person without photographer's name to make it very objective for everyone so you judge the photo itself not the photographer or whatever.
Just an idea.

I think the pics that won the challenge are great and the rightful
winners.

That being said, I perceive an interesting trend in the
judging/voting which is indicated by the plot which I have taken
the liberty to upload to the end of the challenge 24 exhibition
gallery (see below).

My conclusions, based on the data, are:

• earlier entries are viewed far more than later entries,
• many voters only view the thumbnails of images before they vote.

There were 78 photos with fewer TOTAL viewings than the total
number of voters !

This is an observation, not a criticism. I think the challenge idea
is wonderfull and the winning submissions make me jealous given my
lack of artistry. My question is:

Should you view all photos in a way which allows judgement of
composition, exposure, color, etc prior to voting ?

Comments please...

http://www.pbase.com/image/4606267

--
Yann
http://www.pbase.com/ykeesing

 

[David Barker91965]

Perhaps limiting the entries to one or two per person would make a
big difference... certainly, it would force each of us to be really
discriminating in what work we choose to enter. That in itself is
a learning.

Yeah, I think that we will have to go this way. It is so hard
though to decide what to enter. In this last challenge I entered
the aspen carving pics. My favorite was "ED" - I think it was
technically the best and I don't know why, but I just liked it. At
the same time when making my entry decisions I knew that "Me" would
draw the most attention. And guess what? "ED" got neither comment
or vote. lol, while 'Me" placed.

I suppose you have to decide whether you are entering to show what you consider to be your best work or to try to gain the approval and votes of others. Alternatively you could enter just in order to challenge yourself to try something different or new to you.

I like your ability to laugh about these situations.

--
David Barker

 

[David Barker91965]

One photo should be posted per person without photographer's name
to make it very objective for everyone so you judge the photo
itself not the photographer or whatever.
Just an idea.

It sounds a good idea too. When would the name be re-united with the photo? Could 2 people claim to have taken the winning pic? LOL.

--
David Barker

 

[Fremiet59632]

This thread is uncannily like one which developed several months ago. Anonymous one entry challenges really make sense and would be fascinating too.

Fremiet

One photo should be posted per person without photographer's name
to make it very objective for everyone so you judge the photo
itself not the photographer or whatever.
Just an idea.

It sounds a good idea too. When would the name be re-united with
the photo? Could 2 people claim to have taken the winning pic? LOL.

--
David Barker

--
http://www.pbase.com/fremiet

 

[1ofUs!]

Yeah, one of the challenges we tried that . . . can't even remember which one now! It wasn't popular . . . .however, this is a whole different group now, maybe its time to try it again. (something tells me Fremiet we would usually be able to guess your work!)

Fremiet

One photo should be posted per person without photographer's name
to make it very objective for everyone so you judge the photo
itself not the photographer or whatever.
Just an idea.

It sounds a good idea too. When would the name be re-united with
the photo? Could 2 people claim to have taken the winning pic? LOL.

--
David Barker

--
http://www.pbase.com/fremiet

--
CindyD or SarahD
If one of us is laughing, and the other one isn't, one of us must be wrong...

 

[cUrVe]

not sure but i do remember seeing a particular photo that was entered and recognizing the subject and place, assumed (correctly it turned out) that it was taken by zipperz.

i also think it was sarah who made the anonymous entries suggestion after c6 self portraits .

i seem to remember that challenge being fairly successful considering it was just before christmas.
maybe we should give anonymous entries another shot.

Fremiet

One photo should be posted per person without photographer's name
to make it very objective for everyone so you judge the photo
itself not the photographer or whatever.
Just an idea.

It sounds a good idea too. When would the name be re-united with
the photo? Could 2 people claim to have taken the winning pic? LOL.

--
David Barker

--
http://www.pbase.com/fremiet

--
CindyD or SarahD
If one of us is laughing, and the other one isn't, one of us must
be wrong...

--
cUrVe (n. from the latin curvus, meaning bent)
... it is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation.
http://homepage.mac.com/curve

 

[Fremiet59632]

Obviously time for a new twist ; ) Kodak moments by F?

Fremiet

One photo should be posted per person without photographer's name
to make it very objective for everyone so you judge the photo
itself not the photographer or whatever.
Just an idea.

It sounds a good idea too. When would the name be re-united with
the photo? Could 2 people claim to have taken the winning pic? LOL.

--
David Barker

--
http://www.pbase.com/fremiet

--
CindyD or SarahD
If one of us is laughing, and the other one isn't, one of us must
be wrong...

--
http://www.pbase.com/fremiet

 

[Erichatch]

cUrVe, how nice to hear from you! I was in favor of the anonymous entries plan last time we tried it, and the objection that was raised then was... how do we comment? this was at a time when most of the comments were done live through the forum, rather than as postings to the challenge pages.

I would certainly be in favor of it again. One anonymous entry, to be judged by title (not author's name) would allow us all the SURPRISE of finding out afterwards who had been the heros.

Fremiet

One photo should be posted per person without photographer's name
to make it very objective for everyone so you judge the photo
itself not the photographer or whatever.
Just an idea.

It sounds a good idea too. When would the name be re-united with
the photo? Could 2 people claim to have taken the winning pic? LOL.

--
David Barker

--
http://www.pbase.com/fremiet

--
CindyD or SarahD
If one of us is laughing, and the other one isn't, one of us must
be wrong...

--
cUrVe (n. from the latin curvus, meaning bent)
... it is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation.
http://homepage.mac.com/curve

--
Eric
F707
http://www.pbase.com/erichocinc

 

[Fremiet59632]

I guess it's too late for Dee to do this (if she were so inclined). The next winner would be at liberty to whatever he/she wanted........where do we go from here?

Fremiet

I would certainly be in favor of it again. One anonymous entry, to
be judged by title (not author's name) would allow us all the
SURPRISE of finding out afterwards who had been the heros.

Fremiet

One photo should be posted per person without photographer's name
to make it very objective for everyone so you judge the photo
itself not the photographer or whatever.
Just an idea.

It sounds a good idea too. When would the name be re-united with
the photo? Could 2 people claim to have taken the winning pic? LOL.

--
David Barker

--
http://www.pbase.com/fremiet

--
CindyD or SarahD
If one of us is laughing, and the other one isn't, one of us must
be wrong...

--
cUrVe (n. from the latin curvus, meaning bent)
... it is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation.
http://homepage.mac.com/curve

--
Eric
F707
http://www.pbase.com/erichocinc

--
http://www.pbase.com/fremiet

 

[Lisa Young74699]

Because most contests want photos no bigger than 640x480, that's what I resize mine at and then the kb is only about 100 to 200, versus 2.2mb for the original 707 size.

Lisa

2. Does viewing size affect votes?

I think that people should resize their photos to around 800 x 600.
If a photo opens and it's really tiny, it's hard to make out how
good it is. And if it opens as a huge photo, then this would be
very annoying for people without high speed internet. I have high
speed, and I find it annoying anyway.

--
My gallery: http://silvercharm.digitalphotochat.com/gallery
POTDs at DPC: http://www.digitalphotocontest.com/profile.asp?pid=11986

 

[Ann Chaikin]

I also am totally stymied as to what wins on the challenge. I've had a couple of placing photos in the last couple of challenges and this time didn't even make the top ten in spite of lots of favorable comments on my pictures. I also feel frustrated at times but also determined just to do the best pictures I am capable of and have a good time doing it. In my case, I return to work after the summer break on Tuesday and that will put limits on the time I can spend. I really enjoyed the summer challenges where I could go all out especially "signs", "fountains" and "panoramas" and I learned so much from all three, especially panoramas where I now know how to take a whole new type of photograph. So I'm putting aside my frustration and chugging along into the next one... Bring me those utensils and let me have a go at it. Maybe I'll take that winning photo tomorrow before I have to get back to work and classes... Ann

That said, I cannot for the life of me figure out what it takes to
win a Challenge. Not that the winners aren't usually fine photos,
of course they are. But like Lisa I've had POTD winners draw
virtually no votes in the Challenges. Clearly, some different
standard is being applied... but what it is, I don't have a clue
and am getting pretty frustrated over it. But the good news is
that if one DOESN'T have it all psyched out, the opportunities for
entering just for the sake of the learning experience in shooting
something out of your beaten track is very worthwhile.

So I'm determined to get over the fustration and just work on
taking shots I think are technically and artistically worthwhile on
the Challenge theme.. . and forget winning/losing as much as
possible.

I think the pics that won the challenge are great and the rightful
winners.

That being said, I perceive an interesting trend in the
judging/voting which is indicated by the plot which I have taken
the liberty to upload to the end of the challenge 24 exhibition
gallery (see below).

My conclusions, based on the data, are:

• earlier entries are viewed far more than later entries,
• many voters only view the thumbnails of images before they vote.

There were 78 photos with fewer TOTAL viewings than the total
number of voters !

This is an observation, not a criticism. I think the challenge idea
is wonderfull and the winning submissions make me jealous given my
lack of artistry. My question is:

Should you view all photos in a way which allows judgement of
composition, exposure, color, etc prior to voting ?

Comments please...

http://www.pbase.com/image/4606267

--
Eric
F707
http://www.pbase.com/erichocinc

--
also known as PT Kitty > ^..^

http://www.pbase.com/ptkitty/galleries

 

[Ann Chaikin]

Actually the winning photo in ch24 was in fact quite subtle. This also killed one of my "what gets votes" theories that bright colors often win. Dee's entry was wonderfully subtle and made me glad to see that subtle can win. Ann

I'm pleased this thread was started, because it has helped me to
consolidate some half-formed thoughts.

I haven't entered any challenges since Entrances and Exits (I think
that was the title), partly because of being away from home quite a
bit this summer, but mostly because I knew how much time would need
to be devoted to looking through the photos for judging. I wouldn't
feel comfortable about entering without putting in the effort to
look properly at the other entries.

However, I couldn't help feeling that some of the more subtle
photos were being overlooked in favour of those with more immediacy
of impact at thumbnail size. Perhaps there is nothing wrong with
this in a way - there is after all nothing to stop us all taking
this into consideration when shooting our eligible photos, but
personally I am against this approach.

My suggestion would be to limit the number of entries to one per
member. This would enable everyone to judge all the entries at full
size without taking up too much time.

--
David Barker

--
also known as PT Kitty > ^..^

http://www.pbase.com/ptkitty/galleries

 

[Ann Chaikin]

I'll be darned if I can figure out which will be most popular and that is what voting is about. Seems like most popular may or may not be best.... Ann

Well can pbase be set to load the latest entries at the beginning?
That would help offset the time of entry disadvantage.

Less entries would help - even with broadband it is too hard to
give a credible viewing to all entries. That being said, several
challenges had much lower entires so the hosts allowed more. It is
hard to predict how many to allow.

As far as fewer voting - seems like a cumbersome system in general

• big time committment. This time neither Sarah nor I voted. We

had a wind storm knock our satellite receiver off just a hair.
This resulted in intermittent and slow service when we did have it,
with long blackouts in between. It stabilized near the end of the
voting, by then we were behind on other pressing business and
didn't have time to view the galleries enough to vote responsibly.

Hosts should make sure everybody knows that anybody belonging to
DPreview can (is encouraged to) vote too - not just those who
entered.

Just a few thoughts. Cindy

--
CindyD or SarahD
If one of us is laughing, and the other one isn't, one of us must
be wrong...

--
Eric
F707
http://www.pbase.com/erichocinc

--
also known as PT Kitty > ^..^

http://www.pbase.com/ptkitty/galleries

 

[Ann Chaikin]

I would certainly be in favor of it again. One anonymous entry, to
be judged by title (not author's name) would allow us all the
SURPRISE of finding out afterwards who had been the heros.

Fremiet

One photo should be posted per person without photographer's name
to make it very objective for everyone so you judge the photo
itself not the photographer or whatever.
Just an idea.

It sounds a good idea too. When would the name be re-united with
the photo? Could 2 people claim to have taken the winning pic? LOL.

--
David Barker

--
http://www.pbase.com/fremiet

--
CindyD or SarahD
If one of us is laughing, and the other one isn't, one of us must
be wrong...

--
cUrVe (n. from the latin curvus, meaning bent)
... it is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation.
http://homepage.mac.com/curve

--
Eric
F707
http://www.pbase.com/erichocinc

--
also known as PT Kitty > ^..^

http://www.pbase.com/ptkitty/galleries

 

[ZipperZ]

i agree.

I would certainly be in favor of it again. One anonymous entry, to
be judged by title (not author's name) would allow us all the
SURPRISE of finding out afterwards who had been the heros.

Fremiet

One photo should be posted per person without photographer's name
to make it very objective for everyone so you judge the photo
itself not the photographer or whatever.
Just an idea.

It sounds a good idea too. When would the name be re-united with
the photo? Could 2 people claim to have taken the winning pic? LOL.

--
David Barker

--
http://www.pbase.com/fremiet

--
CindyD or SarahD
If one of us is laughing, and the other one isn't, one of us must
be wrong...

--
cUrVe (n. from the latin curvus, meaning bent)
... it is better to fail in originality than to succeed in imitation.
http://homepage.mac.com/curve

--
Eric
F707
http://www.pbase.com/erichocinc

--
also known as PT Kitty > ^..^

http://www.pbase.com/ptkitty/galleries

--
cheers
Zip

=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
BFS: been there had that...got the t-shirt
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
Pie Chute: UnCorked
Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle
128mem stick: lost

 

[peggy]

--
Peggy - Sony Mavica CD1000 and Sony DSC S85
http://www.pbase.com/puck

 

[.McFly]

I too would really enjoy anonymous submissions. Being a newcomer to this forum, I found it extremely intimidating to submit pictures to a group I am just getting to know, not to mention submitting comments when I had no idea how they would be absorbed. The tribal patterns within this group are strong and no doubt can influence the voting.

This challenge was frustrating, as the subject matter was broad and maybe even a bit separated. I found that some folks were strongly pulled towards the 'graffiti' pics, while others were more approving of traditional 'Signs' photographs. This made the voting that much more fragmented in my opinion. In addition, I felt that in some cases, people were voting more for the artwork in the graffiti, as opposed to the effort put into the photograph itself. In essense, this was a TOUGH challenge all the way! In any event, it was indeed fun, and I am looking forward to future challenges.

As stated above, I am in full support of anonymous submissions- although it will be difficult to monitor how many submissions each artist has made, if those submissions are anonymous. Perhaps the Host could actually post the submissions. It took me over 3 hours to vote- and I have a cable modem. I looked at each and every photograph, many several times over. I cannot honestly say I can put this kind of time into voting each and every challenge.

 

[Jimmy Chen]

My conclusions, based on the data, are:

• earlier entries are viewed far more than later entries,

What do you expect? Early entries have had more exposure time for people to look at. You cannot expect entries from the last day to have as many views as those that has been in there for two week, can you?

• many voters only view the thumbnails of images before they vote.

Human nature, people do things based on how they see fit.

There were 78 photos with fewer TOTAL viewings than the total
number of voters !

This can very happen when you can have more then one vote to any given photo.

Comments please...

Everything you pointed out are good observations, but with that said, everything you pointed out has also been discussed many many many challenges ago, as far back as 5 or 6 I believe. You can search the forum for old posts on these discussions ...

--
jc
F707 w/ Nikon 5T/6T
http://www.reefkeepers.org/gallery/f707
http://www.reeftec.com/gallery

 

[ZipperZ]

dont get frustrated Eric. just keep doing what you doing and if your proud of your photos then thats all that matters. From what ive learned in my old days of photography class its "impact" that gets your photos noticed. Impact comes in various degrees. It could be the vibrant colors of the photo or the story it tells. Theres a little 3 letter word that was taught to me waay back called "pac". It stands for people, action, composition. When i shoot on a theme these 3 things are always in my mind. Any one of these elements done well will create 'impact'.

For me, an old saying goes....you want your photo to tell a story. Add a human being in it. You want your still life shot to have impact, add some action. And last but not least, compose compose compose.

Your graffitist is a perfect example. The subject matter is the can of paint. You added a person and an action and made the photo pop! Thus giving you a great POTD.

My last challenge wins followed these simple principles. Im not saying this is the be all and end all of how your should shoot but it works for me and i just wanted to share. These are just my own thoughts and i hope nobody sees this as preaching or anything else. Not meant to offend.

Keep your head on straight and your camera crooked!

I do think the challenges place a huge demand on people if they are
to vote with care and thoroughness. And it's true that there's a
fall-off in hits as an image nears the end of the entry list.
People get "full" pretty quickly! Especially if there are
bandwidth problems.

That said, I cannot for the life of me figure out what it takes to
win a Challenge. Not that the winners aren't usually fine photos,
of course they are. But like Lisa I've had POTD winners draw
virtually no votes in the Challenges. Clearly, some different
standard is being applied... but what it is, I don't have a clue
and am getting pretty frustrated over it. But the good news is
that if one DOESN'T have it all psyched out, the opportunities for
entering just for the sake of the learning experience in shooting
something out of your beaten track is very worthwhile.

So I'm determined to get over the fustration and just work on
taking shots I think are technically and artistically worthwhile on
the Challenge theme.. . and forget winning/losing as much as
possible.

--
cheers
Zip

=========================================
http://www.pbase.com/lafalot/i_n_f_r_a_r_e_d
BFS: been there had that...got the t-shirt
Sticker Status: ON...but on upsidedown
Pie Chute: UnCorked
Lens Cap: No dangle at any angle
128mem stick: lost

 

[David Cappello]

I think the pics that won the challenge are great and the rightful
winners.

That being said, I perceive an interesting trend in the
judging/voting which is indicated by the plot which I have taken
the liberty to upload to the end of the challenge 24 exhibition
gallery (see below).

My conclusions, based on the data, are:

• earlier entries are viewed far more than later entries,
• many voters only view the thumbnails of images before they vote.

There were 78 photos with fewer TOTAL viewings than the total
number of voters !

This is an observation, not a criticism. I think the challenge idea
is wonderfull and the winning submissions make me jealous given my
lack of artistry. My question is:

Should you view all photos in a way which allows judgement of
composition, exposure, color, etc prior to voting ?

Comments please...
http://www.pbase.com/image/4606267

Well I had a lot of fun with this, and I will continue to play and have fun
I know in the past few months/weeks I have gleaned a great deal of
knowledge and ideas. I was shocked at the number of entries VS the
number of votes. Perhaps make it mandatory to vote. In other words
in order for your photo to be valid you have to submit a vote on the
rest of the challenge otherwise your photo gets moved to honorable mention
spot. Sorry if this was/is a PFSI (Fast Frequently Suggested Idea)
--
Regards, -David
http://www.pbase.com/dcappello/
http://www.telequest.net/~cappello