Buying a used R3, but... shutter count almost 60k

[Falxon]

Hi folks.

I'm in the market for a gently used R3, and have been looking at a few places including ebay and used camera retailers. I recently saw one with just under 60k shutter cycles on it.

Now I know most people tend to use the electronic shutter, so the first question is does that figure include electronic shutter cycles?

The second question is, assuming the camera is out of warranty, would it be worth buying, at around $1000 off the full retail price, or is that too heavily used at that point? I would be on Canon Pro Services Platinum so repairs would be discounted, but I would prefer not to buy something that will need immediate maintenance.

Knowing that a new R3 has a US street price of around $5600 from a well-known source, the question is, is 60k cycles worth saving $600-800?

Any thoughts are welcome, as are suggestions for questions to ask the seller.

 

[Canon_Guy]

But the truth is that this phenomenon is caused by the distance of the physical curtain to the sensor. So unless this distance does not change, the phenomenon should remain the same.

Wait, what?

This .

 

[Falxon]

I have 3k of shutters on mine, but have taken ten times that in ES.

60k means 60k physical, not including ES. That’s a well worn unit, heads up. I would be very cautious given the nature of the R3 is ES as primary use.

Appreciate the feedback. Based on all the cautions from folks here, I decided to pass on that deal. While it was a good price, it wasn't a good *enough* price given its wear.

 

[Falxon]

Do you use the R3?

best sensor and AF I’ve ever used.

So, the point of this post was to determine whether to buy the R3 as my first Mirrorless camera, period. Until now, I have never so much as shot a single frame with mirrorless (outside of a store). I have a 5D3 and a 7D2 on the shelf behind me. I loved my 7D2, but always hated how autofocus microadjustments were needed per-lens and that they varied at different focal lengths even after calibration by CPS. Even after spending literally days using focus targets and software to tweak/optimize the microadjustment, I would find that lenses like my 100-400 would still not be as sharp as I wanted.

After all the warnings, I passed on the 60k shutter count R3 and found another seller offering a great deal on an R3 with <1000 shutter actuations. I bought it and it arrives mid-week next week along with an EF-to-RF adapter with control ring. Looking forward to my first foray into mirrorless!

 

[RLight]

I have 3k of shutters on mine, but have taken ten times that in ES.

60k means 60k physical, not including ES. That’s a well worn unit, heads up. I would be very cautious given the nature of the R3 is ES as primary use.

Appreciate the feedback. Based on all the cautions from folks here, I decided to pass on that deal. While it was a good price, it wasn't a good *enough* price given its wear.

Every now and again cpricewatch has deals on the R3 that make sense for North American buyers… I got mine a solid 300-400 off, plus no tax. Not a bad deal for a new unit with full warranty.

The catch is you have to buy through referral, which bypasses MAP restrictions resellers are contracted with Canon for as it’s not an advertised price by the reseller itself.

 

[Falxon]

Every now and again cpricewatch has deals on the R3 that make sense for North American buyers… I got mine a solid 300-400 off, plus no tax. Not a bad deal for a new unit with full warranty.

The catch is you have to buy through referral, which bypasses MAP restrictions resellers are contracted with Canon for as it’s not an advertised price by the reseller itself.

Oh trust me, I know the Street Price program really well. I got my 5D3 and a couple of L lenses that way. The one I ended up buying though was basically $1000 off retail with very little use, so I had to jump on it.

I'm kinda regretting missing the deal for the dual fisheye VR lens that was $1000 off and sold out in an hour. What a deal! The fact that I do VR development really makes me sad.

 

[JonBH]

I think that besides the stacked sensor R3 also has others important assets which might be a reason to buy it. Like AF, integrated grip, battery life, body build etc.

BTW just for curiosity: how does the stacked sensor behave with very fast apertures (f/1.2, 1.4) and fast shutter speeds (1/2000 and faster) in terms of bokeh? Is it prone to bokeh reduction?

I obviously can't speak to the results, but I'm not sure why you'd expect the sensor architecture to affect bokeh. That's a purely optical phenomenon, so the silicon structure of the sensor should have no effect whatsoever on that appearance.

Yes, most probably you are right. I just wonder if the faster readout speed could not affect it somehow. But the truth is that this phenomenon is caused by the distance of the physical curtain to the sensor. So unless this distance does not change, the phenomenon should remain the same.

On page 285 of the R3 manual (Shutter Mode section) you are cautioned that "Defocused image areas may be incomplete when shooting near maximum aperture at high shutter speeds, depending on shooting conditions." One of the recommendations regarding shutter type is, to shoot with an option "other than [Elec. 1st-curtain]".

 

[RLight]

I think that besides the stacked sensor R3 also has others important assets which might be a reason to buy it. Like AF, integrated grip, battery life, body build etc.

BTW just for curiosity: how does the stacked sensor behave with very fast apertures (f/1.2, 1.4) and fast shutter speeds (1/2000 and faster) in terms of bokeh? Is it prone to bokeh reduction?

No on paper, and no in practice.

Thought I'd chime in given the confusion here.

ES however is prone to rolling shutter, again, the R3 employs a stacked CMOS making it virtually imperceivable.

I haven't witnessed odd banding in mixed lighting, either, if, you employ Flickr detection that is. If you don't, in any mode, you can given appropriate lighting.

EFCS on the other hand, can impact bokeh on paper, I don't shoot EFCS though, I'm either Mech or Elec myself, with ES being used 99.9%

 

[RLight]

I think that besides the stacked sensor R3 also has others important assets which might be a reason to buy it. Like AF, integrated grip, battery life, body build etc.

BTW just for curiosity: how does the stacked sensor behave with very fast apertures (f/1.2, 1.4) and fast shutter speeds (1/2000 and faster) in terms of bokeh? Is it prone to bokeh reduction?

I obviously can't speak to the results, but I'm not sure why you'd expect the sensor architecture to affect bokeh. That's a purely optical phenomenon, so the silicon structure of the sensor should have no effect whatsoever on that appearance.

Yes, most probably you are right. I just wonder if the faster readout speed could not affect it somehow. But the truth is that this phenomenon is caused by the distance of the physical curtain to the sensor. So unless this distance does not change, the phenomenon should remain the same.

On page 285 of the R3 manual (Shutter Mode section) you are cautioned that "Defocused image areas may be incomplete when shooting near maximum aperture at high shutter speeds, depending on shooting conditions." One of the recommendations regarding shutter type is, to shoot with an option "other than [Elec. 1st-curtain]".

Correct, EFCS can impact bokeh, but doesn't result in rolling shutter. Again, with a stacked sensor, rolling shutter is almost completely moot, in practice, not just paper.

A few things I'll highlight this side of a full write up the R3 which I'm planning.

1. ES results in "better" AF in my experience. Mech and EFCS "drop" in front of the focal plane interrupting AF functions. ES does not.

2. You can hit higher shutter speeds in ES mode via TV, than you can with Mech or EFCS. Happens in bright conditions and fast apertures, or "sharp" moments where 1/8000 isn't good enough.

3. ES is not subject to shutter shock. Mech is.

4. ES does not "eat" into your shutter. When you're shooting 3,000 shots an event, it matters.

.

All to say ES is the default on the R3, and for good reason.

 

[simjn]

Paramoz in UK. Grey importer but solid service. 3yr warranty. They claim that Canon will service and repair. I got mine there. No issues.

We use Panamoz a lot and have good relations.

Hi, how long do they take to deliver and what courier do they use?

Thanks

 

[Pixel boy]

Just read all the threads, but can someone still confirm for me if the shutter count used includes electronic?

So as example if my R3 had <2000 and I only ever used it in electronic shutter would that figure never change, or if I take say 2000 shots in electronic will it jump to <4000

Thanks in advance

 

[koenkooi]

Just read all the threads, but can someone still confirm for me if the shutter count used includes electronic?

So as example if my R3 had <2000 and I only ever used it in electronic shutter would that figure never change, or if I take say 2000 shots in electronic will it jump to <4000

On my R5, it does not include electronic shutter, only EFCS and MS actuations.

 

[RLight]

Just read all the threads, but can someone still confirm for me if the shutter count used includes electronic?

So as example if my R3 had <2000 and I only ever used it in electronic shutter would that figure never change, or if I take say 2000 shots in electronic will it jump to <4000

Thanks in advance

I'll answer it another way... I've got, I dunno, well over 10-20k of shutters, but 3k are registered. I've been shooting electronic-only after month 1.

The 3k came from the first month-ish of testing the two (MS vs ES) only to figure out ES does the job just as well.

All to say if you shoot 50k in ES, your shutter won't be zero, but it should be close. I do believe turning the camera on/off does exercise a shutter or two for the self-cleaning / self-protection mechanism.

 

[David Pastern]

Just read all the threads, but can someone still confirm for me if the shutter count used includes electronic?

So as example if my R3 had <2000 and I only ever used it in electronic shutter would that figure never change, or if I take say 2000 shots in electronic will it jump to <4000

Thanks in advance

I believe someone said in Oner of the threads that Electronic shutter strokes do NOT count to the shutter count (i.e. it's mechanical only). Hope this helps.

 

[paratom]

The R3 is overpriced relative to the competition imo...

+1 -- 24MP for the standard retail price and the Z9 simply seems superb, come on canon!

Do I wish the R3 had some more MP - yes (wish not need).

However, I love the size and weight of the R3, it feels just right and I would not want to lug around a camera like the Z9 any more. The same is true for Canon vs Nikon 70200/2.8 zoom lens. I wonder why the Z9 is so heavy not even having a mechanical shutter,