Busted again and again and again!

wow, wow, emotions running high. as a dutchman living in the us, all i can say is that both sides of the big pond suffer from prejudices about the other side.

the us and holland are both stellar examples of freedom and personal liberty.
 
Hi Texan,
I am curious about that comment... In any given day I run into a
whole lot of people in America that don't look, talk, or dress like
me. Because I really do value the 'melting pot' nature of America I
never think the word 'foreign' when I meet these people. What does
an American look like? Jew, Christian, Muslim, none of the above.
Caucasian, Indian, Black, Hispanic, Asian... All Americans if they
want to be... I do love to hear their story (as I do with all
people) so I ask a lot of questions. Where are you from? Why did
you move to America? How do you like it? What do you think about it?
I am from England and I moved to the USA in 2001, I got laid off from my crappy job and after hunting and hunting for a new job in England decided I would try another country, I had a pen pal from the US and I went over to see her (she is my girlfriend now and lives with me) and look for work.
I eventually found a really good job with much better prospects etc.

I do like America, there is loads of space, people are more open about talking to you and seem more relaxed. Having worked in a bad job I especially like the work environment, much better than my experience in the UK. I actually have a voice, and the bosses boss will listen to what I have to say, I feel valuable in the company, a week and a half ago I got a sizeable pay rise, I didn't even ask for!

I once read a quote from someone somewhere that described America as a nation of (don't take this the wrong way, its not intended to offend) children, starting on a journey to build a new nation; and I think it is true in a way.

This has good sides and bad sides, but I don't want to ramble on about that right now, I am at work and their not THAT relaxed! :O)
True we have had fewer foreign terrorists on our home soil because
of our goegraphic situation. But we have lost plenty of lives in
terrorist acts both here and abroad, both self-inflicted and
foreign, both political and religious.
The thing I find is you are very far away from all that, the news in the US tends to water things down (I guess all news agencies do this to varying amounts), then chase the next big "story". See how little news is devoted to Bin Laden any more, he is presumeably still at large and the biggest threat to the US in the world, after all he is directly responseable for killing almost 3000 US and foreign civilians, Saddam Hussein hasn't really killed any (not taking into account the gulf war).
And terrorism is indeed
frightening to us. I don't see that as a character flaw. I would
think it is frightening to every parent, child, sibling, friend in
the world.
That is also true, but being so "new" on American soil, has Americans not knowing what their role should be "should I support the government?" "should I be suspicious about others?" etc etc

Let me put it in perspective from someone from the "outside"; The IRA who have killed many people, children women and men gets a lot of its financial support from the USA.

USA citizens have paid and fully supported terrorists who kill innocent people, and yet, do English people hate Americans for it? No! Tony Blair is one of the few who actually support Bush in his war.

Look at American attitudes towards the French right now, they are being called "anti american" and "traitors" I find this disgraceful. The French are exercising their democratic right and following the wishes of their people, there is nothing "anti american" about that.

America is a great place, but like an innocent child, it has a lot of growing pains to go through before it is fully mature.

Chris
 
... one of the most paranoid societies in the world. It's not all because of Sept. 11, either.
I just wanted to chime in here. The incidents I went through were
clearly not related to 911 or any security issues. I do think that
photography has suffered a blow as more and more companies now want
to exercize their right to prohibit such photography. I think this
is an indirect result of others calling for restrictions under
homeland security.

I don't believe they are taking this action to the extreme - heck -
I don't think they have even thought it out very well! The
companies that I was subjected to yesterday had a policy yet failed
to let anyone know they had the policy! Why not post signs? You
know why? They can exercise the right discriminately. If they see
someone with a paper throw away camera - no action. My D60 with
that big lens - your busted.

This is America and it is their right - I don't not fault them -
just think that our hobby has suffered a small blow.

Oh, by the way, there was a comment about hiding the camera and
trying to get the shots again. Do any of you think this is a
correct way to approach this??? I guess I would approach mall
management first with my plea and try to convince them of my
intentions. I would hope that they would be reasonable. This is
just a mall - wasn't that interested in the subject anyway : ) .

--
===============================
Tom 'turk' Terleski
===============================
--
http://www.pbase.com/davek/
 
I'm wondering what is the worst thing that can happen if we refuse
to stop taking photos. Can they actually have you arrested or pay
a fine? LOL, "conspiracy to commit terrorism through the act of
'videoing veggies'". A capital crime for sure.
Here's how it works: they ask you to leave, you refuse to leave, you're now trespassing. In Georgia, that's a misdemeanor criminal offense.
Sigh,

Michael

P.S. Wal-Mart sells produce??
Around here you find the occasional "Super Wal-Mart" which is a combination grocery-store and regular Wal-Mart. Often a somewhat scary place. :)

-- Lew

--
Any DSLR beats unexposed film.
 
It was terribly offtopic (for this forum), but I just can't stop myself from saying "I could'n agree more!"

Thanks :)
(from a happy free dutch shutterbug who can shoot anything inside and outside)
 
Hi Thomas,
What do you look like? What do you dress like?
Unfortunately, I have found in America, if you look and dress like
your average Joe you get less attention and grief when taking
pictures, if you dress differently and look foreign (I AM foreign
here, but I try to blend in when out taking pictures). You may be
singled out as a trouble maker and someone "different".>
http://www.increasingjoy.net/ggc2003/crw_2421.htm

Here I am!! 50 years old and not too frightening!

--
===============================
Tom 'turk' Terleski
===============================
 
:O) Nice pic!
Hi Thomas,
What do you look like? What do you dress like?
Unfortunately, I have found in America, if you look and dress like
your average Joe you get less attention and grief when taking
pictures, if you dress differently and look foreign (I AM foreign
here, but I try to blend in when out taking pictures). You may be
singled out as a trouble maker and someone "different".>
http://www.increasingjoy.net/ggc2003/crw_2421.htm

Here I am!! 50 years old and not too frightening!

--
===============================
Tom 'turk' Terleski
===============================
 
I dont see whats wrong with a 1D and a 70-200L at a sports areana....its not like its a damn gun or a bomb...security reasons my ass. While this has never happened to me it still angers me, what hurt is taking a picture going to do. One time on the Penn State campus at night in the Beaver stadium parking lot this police car came flying, and i mean flying had to be doin 60mph and he had to lock em up to get stopped and he said "what are you doing" and i said taking pictures and he was just like ohhhhhhhh ok, got on his radio told them "its just a camera" and then had a kind conversation and left. why cant it be this way everywhere. By the way, PSU does not allow its pictures to be sold without a license, the cop wasnt an ass about that either.
This is where P&S cameras come into play. Sometimes
small is better. I'm sort of tweaked at Phil for not reviewing
the S230. A lot of us care about the advances at that end
of the market. The S400 looks real good and I can't wait
for that review.

Someone else posted today about getting busted at a sports
arena with a 1D and a white 70-200L. I mean, that's kind
of a "Duh" if you ask me. (no offense to the poster, I've been
there and I know how much it bites).

Complaining about clueless security people is pointless.
Either cooperate with them or try to outsmart them, or just
don't draw their attention in the first place...
 
Not a problem, No offense taken, I told them that it's only pro equipment when a pro is using it!

Damn, I wish people wouldn't be so damn upset of camera equipment.

JL
OK I apologize for the Duh. My bad.

Venues are always going to have rules about photography. I got busted
at a concert (they confiscated my D30 + 24-85 lens and I was way up in
the "lawn" area above the seats). The folks at the security booth
were polite and professional, and they explained that it's the artists
that force the issue. They told me any sort of "detachable lens"
camera was fair game.

Everyone gets that angry feeling when they get hassled by security
people, but what do you expect them to do? My point is that you can't
show up at a venue with a 1D and a white lens and then claim it's not
"pro equipment". It is, almost by definition.

That was my point. Again, sorry if any offense was taken.
--
Jonathan Lefcourt
Some winter pics taken in NY State
http://www.pbase.com/jlefcourt/some_winter_shots&page=all
 
You are very right. I tried to explain some of these ideas, but the people you are writing back to are very limited and most likely have never seen anything else (like the chinese say: they are a frog in the well and the only sky they know is that little portion of sky they can see). You may be waisting your time (i'm sure you are actually). The sad part is that people are brainwashed (yes in the land of freedom), to beleive so much nonsense about other countries and cultures.

Alfred
 
By the way, for those who interview a lot of people and have been told that "it is illegal to ask them about sexual orientation, race, etc" .

Technically that is not true. It is illegal to make a decision based on that information and the assumption is that if you ask, you will use it even subconsiously in making a decision - so they tell you not to ask (a good practice in any case). But technically you can ask.

Is that the same idea here - you can take a picture but you can't publish it, but they assume that if you are taking one that you would plan to publish it - otherwise, why bother??
Does that mean that legally I can shoot away no matter what the
mall says, but I just can't publish it?!!

That is a really interesting twist!!
 
You are missing the point entirely.

If the majority of the people wanted drugs legalized or the right to see naked people on tv for free, then it would happen. As it stands, you can get all the naked tv you want by subscribing to TV channels that specialize in that.

Geez, we even got Nevada where the people have voted to keep supporting gambling and prostitution. How many other countries have supported such levels of gambling? Some (I lost a lot of money in Macao)

We have the biggest tobacco industry in the world and we work hard to export that to other countries - that is freedom too!

Everyone doing what they want is a kind of freedom - but it is also anarchy.
Thanking for what ?
.
Your government has freedom, not you. Unless you think:

Shooting someone on your property is freedom.
Stating "Saddam" and "Bush" and be investigated by Echelon is freedom.
Sueing someone for the most odd reasons is freedom.
Black covered playboy's in your bookstores is freedom.
Censoring words like sh*t, f*ck and ss on your TV is freedom.
Blurring a t*ttie on TV is freedom.
Censoring real news is freedom. (weird, currently > 60% of the
european newssites are being visited by Americans, as they know
they don't get the real news in their own country)


It is hypocracy as :

kids of 12 years old having babies, just because your "freedom"
does not allow and show them know what sex is.

you live to work, and I work to live. (now thats a difference, let
me pay some more taxes and I get that in return)

You stand in Church on sunday praying that your child gets home
safely from Iraq. That is real hypocracy : With a gun in your hand
hoping that God will help you ????? Thy shall love thy neighbour
??? Come on people wake up.

It is all the "forbidden fruit". Think about it :

In the Netherlands, buying and smoking weed is allowed. Our drug
abuse is not any higher and actually lower than the rest of europe
and usa. Percentagewise that is. When you try to control something,
people will go and find their way around it, as humans don't like
to be controlled, as they want to have their own control and
freedom .

We see t*tties over our tv screens, no child gets worse of that, or
develops some kind of rare behaviour or decease: you are born naked
and you (might) have sucked your mom's nipple when you were a baby.

We don't have the problems you have in the USA. Ofcourse we have
our own problems.

But I am truly convinced that I have real freedom, and in the USA
you don't.

When I enter the USA I have to fill out these I94 forms, do you, as
an American, know what they ask from me ?

"Have you been actively involved with ****'s during 1940 until 1945"
"Are you part of a terrorist group"
"Do you have AIDS"

How naive can you be ?

the funniest thing about this is, that there is a little line that
states :

If you have answered "yes" to any of the above questions, please
contact the consul in your country :
UHHHH : This form you get when you are on the airplane

Again, there are nice things in America, but don't think it is
the world, we are all on this planet together and we have to make
it work together.

if Bush wants freedom on this planet, he should state "God bless
this world" in stead of "God bless America". That is where the
freedom and peace starts.

....NFI

PEACE.
 
He was on private property the whole time, therefore he must abide by the rules of the property owner or not set foot on that property. Exercising property rights is a freedom! There are no law against photographing in public areas.
We, here in Europe, always learned at school that America is the
land of 1 mio possibillities and opportunities, the land of
freedom, the land where anything is possible.

When I read posts like this, I'm happy I live in Europe. We can
shoot (pics) where we want and no police or some strange rule is
bothering you. I have the feeling that 9-11 still is a big
influence in America, many things are restricted and under rules.

If you want real freedom, come to the Netherlands.

Joep Leenen, the Netherlands
http://www.JoepLeenen.net
D60, Sigma 15-30, Canon 50 f1.8 I, Canon 28-105, 550EX, Image Tank
20 Gb
 

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