Busted again and again and again!

[Chris Charlton]

... If I made $200,000/year in US dollars, what would my tax rate
be in the Netherlands?
KP

So by that statement you are more interested in being rich than being free, I guess if US citizens lose their freedoms you will be ok with it, as long as you are lining your pockets? (Seems this is an attitude of a lot of Americans, hence why you are losing freedoms).

I guess you will be free to take pictures of the inside of your house with your new expensive digital camera you bought with all your money....

Chris

We, here in Europe, always learned at school that America is the
land of 1 mio possibillities and opportunities, the land of
freedom, the land where anything is possible.

When I read posts like this, I'm happy I live in Europe. We can
shoot (pics) where we want and no police or some strange rule is
bothering you. I have the feeling that 9-11 still is a big
influence in America, many things are restricted and under rules.

If you want real freedom, come to the Netherlands.

Joep Leenen, the Netherlands
http://www.JoepLeenen.net
D60, Sigma 15-30, Canon 50 f1.8 I, Canon 28-105, 550EX, Image Tank
20 Gb

--
29 lbs. of Canon stuff in a backpack that I carry everywhere. A
closet full of things that are banned in Britain. A minivan and a
Fender Stratocaster. A three bedroom ranch with three owls on an
acre. An aversion to rumours. Also, absolutely no Canon 1200mm
f/5.6. Yet.

 

[Chris Charlton]

Amen brother, Amen!

As Joep already said : Where do you think your civilization comes
from ?
Go back to school and get some decent history lessons, and not the
ones that praise america and its soldiers... (all your "van",
"vande" etc. surnames are coming from Dutch heritage)

Freedom and hypocracy can be used in one word in the USA.

Don't get me wrong, I like many thing about USA e.g. Cars, prices
and Walmart. (can still bring your products back after one year
without a receipt !) My girlfriend is American, I come here pretty
often, although she will be moving to The Netherlands in June.
(smart girl ! ;-)

But you don't have real freedom, or at least not why I understand
about freedom.

Your government has freedom, not you. Unless you think:

Shooting someone on your property is freedom.
Stating "Saddam" and "Bush" and be investigated by Echelon is freedom.
Sueing someone for the most odd reasons is freedom.
Black covered playboy's in your bookstores is freedom.
Censoring words like sh*t, f*ck and ss on your TV is freedom.
Blurring a t*ttie on TV is freedom.
Censoring real news is freedom. (weird, currently > 60% of the
european newssites are being visited by Americans, as they know
they don't get the real news in their own country)

It is hypocracy as :

kids of 12 years old having babies, just because your "freedom"
does not allow and show them know what sex is.

you live to work, and I work to live. (now thats a difference, let
me pay some more taxes and I get that in return)

You stand in Church on sunday praying that your child gets home
safely from Iraq. That is real hypocracy : With a gun in your hand
hoping that God will help you ????? Thy shall love thy neighbour
??? Come on people wake up.

It is all the "forbidden fruit". Think about it :

In the Netherlands, buying and smoking weed is allowed. Our drug
abuse is not any higher and actually lower than the rest of europe
and usa. Percentagewise that is. When you try to control something,
people will go and find their way around it, as humans don't like
to be controlled, as they want to have their own control and
freedom .

We see t*tties over our tv screens, no child gets worse of that, or
develops some kind of rare behaviour or decease: you are born naked
and you (might) have sucked your mom's nipple when you were a baby.

We don't have the problems you have in the USA. Ofcourse we have
our own problems.

But I am truly convinced that I have real freedom, and in the USA
you don't.

When I enter the USA I have to fill out these I94 forms, do you, as
an American, know what they ask from me ?

"Have you been actively involved with ****'s during 1940 until 1945"
"Are you part of a terrorist group"
"Do you have AIDS"

How naive can you be ?

the funniest thing about this is, that there is a little line that
states :

If you have answered "yes" to any of the above questions, please
contact the consul in your country :
UHHHH : This form you get when you are on the airplane

Again, there are nice things in America, but don't think it is
the world, we are all on this planet together and we have to make
it work together.

if Bush wants freedom on this planet, he should state "God bless
this world" in stead of "God bless America". That is where the
freedom and peace starts.

....NFI

PEACE.

We, here in Europe, always learned at school that America is the
land of 1 mio possibillities and opportunities, the land of
freedom, the land where anything is possible.

When I read posts like this, I'm happy I live in Europe. We can
shoot (pics) where we want and no police or some strange rule is
bothering you. I have the feeling that 9-11 still is a big
influence in America, many things are restricted and under rules.

If you want real freedom, come to the Netherlands.

Joep Leenen, the Netherlands
http://www.JoepLeenen.net
D60, Sigma 15-30, Canon 50 f1.8 I, Canon 28-105, 550EX, Image Tank
20 Gb

--
29 lbs. of Canon stuff in a backpack that I carry everywhere. A
closet full of things that are banned in Britain. A minivan and a
Fender Stratocaster. A three bedroom ranch with three owls on an
acre. An aversion to rumours. Also, absolutely no Canon 1200mm
f/5.6. Yet.

--
Joep Leenen, the Netherlands
http://www.JoepLeenen.net
D60, Sigma 15-30, Canon 50 f1.8 I, Canon 28-105, 550EX, Image Tank
20 Gb

--
Burke Churchill

--
BaKMaN
--
Canon D30,70-200L f4 USM, Sigma 24-70/2.8 EX ASP DG DF, Sigma 180mm
f3.5 EX IF HSM APO MACRO,Canon IXUS330

 

[Chris Charlton]

You should have said "I guess you're not allowed to speak English properly either!"

Hehehe

I was trying to photograph fruits and veggies at the local
Wal-Mart. An assistant manager came up and said, "We don't allow
no videoing in Wal-Mart." I quit and shook my head at the fine
communications skills of the manager. LOL.

 

[Mickey64564]

If I were in the same situation, this would likely be my response: "Thanks bud, I'll keep that in mind if I ever decide to do any 'videoing' in Wal-Mart"...Then continue to shoot. Sheesh, I'm gonna have to try shooting in places like this out here in Central Ontario and see what happens.

What if you purchased the veggies first, then brought them back to the department? This way, you're shooting your own private property. Either way, you won't be 'videoing'. But I guess if people can get in trouble for shooting their own kids in a mall, then this probably wouldn't help...unless you can ensure that your veggies are the only thing visible in the frame. Hopefully we can find a loophole in this ridiculous "rule" that would allow us the right to shoot, just out of spite.

I'm wondering what is the worst thing that can happen if we refuse to stop taking photos. Can they actually have you arrested or pay a fine? LOL, "conspiracy to commit terrorism through the act of 'videoing veggies'". A capital crime for sure.

Sigh,

Michael

P.S. Wal-Mart sells produce??

I was trying to photograph fruits and veggies at the local
Wal-Mart. An assistant manager came up and said, "We don't allow
no videoing in Wal-Mart." I quit and shook my head at the fine
communications skills of the manager. LOL.

--
G2, 420EX, Tiffen 2x & 0.75x
http://www.morpheusmultimedia.com/gallery

 

[Jonathan Lefcourt]

I posted the thread about the 1d and I was in a private sky box with permission of the owner. Others near the floor of the arena were allowed to take pictures with their SLR's and smaller tele zooms. I just don't see the point in allowing some cameras and not others, if the pictures might turn out better if you are sitting closer with smaller lens and smaller SLR. No offense taken, but did you have to post "Duh"? What lens would you take to an arena if you were 50 rows from the action? I think it was worth the try at least. I did get off a bunch of pics that my kids are enjoying.

This is where P&S cameras come into play. Sometimes
small is better. I'm sort of tweaked at Phil for not reviewing
the S230. A lot of us care about the advances at that end
of the market. The S400 looks real good and I can't wait
for that review.

Someone else posted today about getting busted at a sports
arena with a 1D and a white 70-200L. I mean, that's kind
of a "Duh" if you ask me. (no offense to the poster, I've been
there and I know how much it bites).

Complaining about clueless security people is pointless.
Either cooperate with them or try to outsmart them, or just
don't draw their attention in the first place...

--
Jonathan Lefcourt
Some winter pics taken in NY State
http://www.pbase.com/jlefcourt/some_winter_shots&page=all

 

[Jonathan Lefcourt]

for taking pictures of beef jerky.
--
Jackie
http://www3.photosig.com/userphotos.php?portfolioId=32396

--
Jonathan Lefcourt
Some winter pics taken in NY State
http://www.pbase.com/jlefcourt/some_winter_shots&page=all

 

[Jay Barnes]

I haven't shot much at Easton, but I took these from the top of the parking garage there:
http://www.pbase.com/image/12578278
http://www.pbase.com/image/12578280

and this one from top of the stairs of the parking garage, with a security camera pointing directly at me:
http://www.pbase.com/image/11762045

I was there for about an hour waiting for the sunset, camera mounted on a tripod and everything, and was fully expecting security to come along at any second but nobody said a word. I also shot a few pictures inside the mall and in the town center, carrying my D30 in hand the entire time. Guess I just got lucky, or Mall Security knows I work for The Limited corporate and thought it would be a good idea to leave me alone.

Oh, and here's my favorite, notice the Adobe Gilas sign in the upper right corner:



I sent this pic to our brand marketing folks and asked if this was a new slogan they were trying out.

Today my wife and I and another couple went for a trip to Columbus,
Ohio. We first stopped at the Polaris mall complex. I decieded to
take my D60 and shoot entirely with my new 20 mm 2.8 Canon lens all
day. Wrong!

I get busted by mall security for taking pictures! Why? Security
reasons?? "We do not allow pictures in the mall due to the
architectual one of a kind designs" said the security cop. "No
pictures!" He said.

We then traveled to the Easton shopping area on the West side. I
was in the Apple store taking a shot of my friend looking at a new
Powerbook g4. A store clerk approached and said "Apple corporate
does not allow picture of any kind to be taken in the store."
"Please stop or you will have to leave." What?????????
......
===============================
Tom 'turk' Terleski
===============================

--
Jay Barnes
http://www.pbase.com/jbarnes

 

[Ken Phillips]

It's the sad reality of a society that also votes based on political party or a single issue or rhetoric or ... looks.

Whether they are on the board of directors of a large corporation, or running a mutual fund, or running your local government, those people are representing YOU. You MUST know about them, and watch what they do.

But nobody wants to do this ... they want even more government intrusion ... they don't want big brother (read the posts here!) but they will ASK government to baby sit. Now THAT'S pretzel logic. Given the history of governments in general (all varieties) to police corruption I would also say that it will be an exercise in futility.

You may be amazed, but stockholder pressure (and voter pressure) has induced changes in both business and government.
KP

 

[Chris Charlton]

Really nice shots Jay,

It was funny once I went to a museum and was taking pics with my old film camera, one of the (old) security guards thought I was some big shot photographer that supposed to be coming to take pictures of the museum, he kept asking me if I needed anything or if the lights needed adjusting!
Hehehe, I said I was fine and just carried on shooting!
It was nice to be treated like that and not looked down on...

:O)

Oh, and here's my favorite, notice the Adobe Gilas sign in the
upper right corner:



I sent this pic to our brand marketing folks and asked if this was
a new slogan they were trying out.

Today my wife and I and another couple went for a trip to Columbus,
Ohio. We first stopped at the Polaris mall complex. I decieded to
take my D60 and shoot entirely with my new 20 mm 2.8 Canon lens all
day. Wrong!

I get busted by mall security for taking pictures! Why? Security
reasons?? "We do not allow pictures in the mall due to the
architectual one of a kind designs" said the security cop. "No
pictures!" He said.

We then traveled to the Easton shopping area on the West side. I
was in the Apple store taking a shot of my friend looking at a new
Powerbook g4. A store clerk approached and said "Apple corporate
does not allow picture of any kind to be taken in the store."
"Please stop or you will have to leave." What?????????
......
===============================
Tom 'turk' Terleski
===============================

--
Jay Barnes
http://www.pbase.com/jbarnes

 

[fred frang]

on how much the cute female clerk at the apple store likes you

 

[nicepants]

While shooting a documentary-type video for a church youth group I was stopped in Walmart by a manager who told me I needed to put my cameara away. (I only wish I'd gotten that part on the videotape...it would have been priceless)

Having worked in a retail store where photography wasn't allowed...I don't really see the point. Their main concern was that competitors would come in and copy either their prices or their layout. Funny thing, though, we actually had people on staff whose sole job was to shop the competition and copy prices, etc.

The thing is, if someone really wants to get a camera inside..they're going to get a hidden camera or something. If a terrorist wants to check out a building, they're probably going to be smart enough not to get caught.

It's just like putting copy-protection on cds. You create an inconvenience for the average law-abiding citizen, without stopping the hardened criminals.

I was trying to photograph fruits and veggies at the local
Wal-Mart. An assistant manager came up and said, "We don't allow
no videoing in Wal-Mart." I quit and shook my head at the fine
communications skills of the manager. LOL.

 

[zidar]

We, here in Europe, always learned at school that America is the

When I read posts like this, I'm happy I live in Europe.
Joep Leenen, the Netherlands

Well Srebrenica to you, Mr. Leenen.

Zidar (three years in the Yugoslav war)
Alaska
--
It's not about stuff.
http://www.pbase.com/zidar

 

[The Texan]

The only time I have ever had a roll of film yanked from my camera is in Monte Carlo. I hadn't seen a small sign that said 'no photography' and I snapped a picture of Princess Grace's resting place. Security took my camrea, opened it and pulled out the film, ruining a lot of unbelievably good pictures (humor intended... like the fish that got away)

America is a great country. There are many great countries in Europe. Let's not start judging eachother based on our rent-a-cop security guards or on policemen asking us questions at 3:00 AM.

I don't feel like I have lost any freedoms since 9-11. I still get to the airport 30 minutes before my flight and the BIG inconvenience is that I have to take my shoes off to go through security. Really, if you are an American I am curious about how much freedom you have lost. If you can tell me a freedom that has been taken away from you I will listen. But most of this is politically motivated. I did get two speeding tickets in one week so I can't say I love police officers right now but I think they do a great job overall.

I do not want to get involved in the politically motivated emails from now on. However, our friends in Europe should not feel it is unsafe to walk down the streets in America without getting strip searched every other block.

By the way, I would love to come to the Netherlands. I haven't had the chance yet!

We, here in Europe, always learned at school that America is the
land of 1 mio possibillities and opportunities, the land of
freedom, the land where anything is possible.

When I read posts like this, I'm happy I live in Europe. We can
shoot (pics) where we want and no police or some strange rule is
bothering you. I have the feeling that 9-11 still is a big
influence in America, many things are restricted and under rules.

If you want real freedom, come to the Netherlands.

Joep Leenen, the Netherlands
http://www.JoepLeenen.net
D60, Sigma 15-30, Canon 50 f1.8 I, Canon 28-105, 550EX, Image Tank
20 Gb

 

[andyfrazer]

Thomas,

This is not surprising. Almost all shopping malls prohibit photography on their property with prior approval.

But on the other hand, so what if you got busted. Plan your shoot, remain low-key, then when you're ready just shoot, shoot, shoot. Work fast and don't attract attention. The goal is not to avoid getting caught, it's too get the shot you want before you get caught.

Good luck,

Andy Frazer

 

[The Texan]

I am curious about that comment... In any given day I run into a whole lot of people in America that don't look, talk, or dress like me. Because I really do value the 'melting pot' nature of America I never think the word 'foreign' when I meet these people. What does an American look like? Jew, Christian, Muslim, none of the above. Caucasian, Indian, Black, Hispanic, Asian... All Americans if they want to be... I do love to hear their story (as I do with all people) so I ask a lot of questions. Where are you from? Why did you move to America? How do you like it? What do you think about it?

True we have had fewer foreign terrorists on our home soil because of our goegraphic situation. But we have lost plenty of lives in terrorist acts both here and abroad, both self-inflicted and foreign, both political and religious. And terrorism is indeed frightening to us. I don't see that as a character flaw. I would think it is frightening to every parent, child, sibling, friend in the world.

Sorry to hear of this, I have not had as much hassle as you, but I
have had hassle in the past.
Let me ask you this, and don't take this the wrong way.
What do you look like? What do you dress like?
Unfortunately, I have found in America, if you look and dress like
your average Joe you get less attention and grief when taking
pictures, if you dress differently and look foreign (I AM foreign
here, but I try to blend in when out taking pictures). You may be
singled out as a trouble maker and someone "different".
This is true in any country to varying degrees, but more so I have
found in America, Americans are not used to terrorism (unlike most
other countries) and so they don't know how to react or how to be
"patriotic", terrorism is new to them and frightening.
I hope you have more success and less problems in the future.

Chris

Today my wife and I and another couple went for a trip to Columbus,
Ohio. We first stopped at the Polaris mall complex. I decieded to
take my D60 and shoot entirely with my new 20 mm 2.8 Canon lens all
day. Wrong!

I get busted by mall security for taking pictures! Why? Security
reasons?? "We do not allow pictures in the mall due to the
architectual one of a kind designs" said the security cop. "No
pictures!" He said.

We then traveled to the Easton shopping area on the West side. I
was in the Apple store taking a shot of my friend looking at a new
Powerbook g4. A store clerk approached and said "Apple corporate
does not allow picture of any kind to be taken in the store."
"Please stop or you will have to leave." What?????????

We left had some lunch and I thought "What a day." This all seems
so silly.

I was taking several pictures of out group outside in a fountain
area not realizing that a policelady pulled up in her truck and
called to me to step over to the vehical. (I later found out her
vehical ariving at the scene is in one of my pictures!) She
informed me that "You are not allowed to take picture anywhere on
the ground without permission from management. Do you have
permission?" I said " No" She responded with "Put the camera
away and do not take any more pictures."

I give up - busted 3 times in six hours!

I did go see Easton management an office near the theater. They
informed me I would have to get permission and that such permission
is seldom approved. I did get the persons name and number to reach
who has the authority to allow me to take picture.

No big deal - just a day out to try out my new 20 mm 2.8 Canon lens
with a group of friend and my wife. Maybe a trip to the county
next time . . . .

===============================
Tom 'turk' Terleski
===============================

--

 

[nicepants]

I went to a music festival in Kansas City to cover the event for a web site and to get some portfolio work under my belt.

When I arrived at the gate I was asked to open my bag (because you're not allowed to bring food in...but that's a whole other topic). The lady then told me that I could not bring my camera in. I asked her why, because I saw other people with little point & shoot cameras inside. (I was carrying a Sony Mavica CD400 (looks nicer than a P&S but nowhere near a nice SLR). She told me that they only allowed point & shoot cameras. She said that my camera was "too nice". I had to laugh.

This was the first time I actually experienced "camera Discrimination". I was shocked that they actually would let in the crappy cameras, but not let you bring in nice ones. It's not like I had a video camera. I also questioned the ability of their rent-a-cops to know how to differentiate what cameras are allowed & which ones weren't.

Since I was supposed to be covering the event I received media credentials and they let me in. But I was still hassled several times by the rented security people inside the event who said that I wasn't supposed to be using "that kind of camera" and had to keep pointing at my credentials and reminding them that I had permission from the event's coordinator.

I supplied my photos to the owner of the venue and my company, both were very pleased with the results. I plan on returning next year with an even bigger camera.

 

[Richard Smith41318]

OK I apologize for the Duh. My bad.

Venues are always going to have rules about photography. I got busted
at a concert (they confiscated my D30 + 24-85 lens and I was way up in
the "lawn" area above the seats). The folks at the security booth
were polite and professional, and they explained that it's the artists
that force the issue. They told me any sort of "detachable lens"
camera was fair game.

Everyone gets that angry feeling when they get hassled by security
people, but what do you expect them to do? My point is that you can't
show up at a venue with a 1D and a white lens and then claim it's not
"pro equipment". It is, almost by definition.

That was my point. Again, sorry if any offense was taken.

 

[nicepants]

I find that when I walk around with a big SLR with a nice flash on top, the general public gets the idea that I'm with a newspaper or something and generally respond well. (As opposed to the security guard types)

Really nice shots Jay,

It was funny once I went to a museum and was taking pics with my
old film camera, one of the (old) security guards thought I was
some big shot photographer that supposed to be coming to take
pictures of the museum, he kept asking me if I needed anything or
if the lights needed adjusting!
Hehehe, I said I was fine and just carried on shooting!
It was nice to be treated like that and not looked down on...

:O)

 

[jaydp]

Part of the problem with using pro-sumer grade equipment is being confused with professional photographers. I can understand why businesses might want to control the commercial use of photographs taken on their premises, not that I defend the manner in which some enforce it...Try stealth, photojournalism style. Nice thing about digitals is that its easier than ever to photograph silently and without looking through the viewfinder.

 

[johnvanr]

About the same as you would pay in taxes if you lived in New York state, with much better government services to boot. I should know, I moved from Holland to New York state (though I wish I made $200k/yr)

We, here in Europe, always learned at school that America is the
land of 1 mio possibillities and opportunities, the land of
freedom, the land where anything is possible.

When I read posts like this, I'm happy I live in Europe. We can
shoot (pics) where we want and no police or some strange rule is
bothering you. I have the feeling that 9-11 still is a big
influence in America, many things are restricted and under rules.

If you want real freedom, come to the Netherlands.

Joep Leenen, the Netherlands
http://www.JoepLeenen.net
D60, Sigma 15-30, Canon 50 f1.8 I, Canon 28-105, 550EX, Image Tank
20 Gb

--
29 lbs. of Canon stuff in a backpack that I carry everywhere. A
closet full of things that are banned in Britain. A minivan and a
Fender Stratocaster. A three bedroom ranch with three owls on an
acre. An aversion to rumours. Also, absolutely no Canon 1200mm
f/5.6. Yet.