Blinking/freezing A9 viewfinder issue

[boni bonev]

When shooting with a9 there is some annoying blinks and freezes of EVF/Display. For example, if I am on aperture 8 with underexposure -1, before pressing the shutter, aperture is normally closed at 8 and at the moment of focusing, when I'm on half shutter, the aperture opens for a moment and then closes again, causing a blink in the viewfinder. With a99 / a99mk2 the aperture is always open, and even if I am at 8, it does not close to measure the light, but it measures it in an electronic way . The same is with Panasonic GH4. As a result, a99 / a99mk2 has no blinking and freezing of the viewfinder and the display. At a99mk2 the view via EVF is just like DLSR OVF - very smooth and there are no interruptions when you focus and meter the light.

Does anybody know if there is a solution to this problem?

--
http://bonibonev.com

 

[noggin2k1]

I've just given this a try - never really noticed this!

I believe what's happening looks something like this;

Lens closes to set aperture -> lens opens up to lock focus -> lens closes back to set aperture once focussed

I then believe this isn't a blinking, but simply a brief darkening of the EVF, that happens when the lens closes back up once focussed, as the camera/EVF hasn't quite accounted for the drop in light.

Loads of threads on this, don't think there's anything that can be done to change.

 

[boni bonev]

a99ii is totally different in this situations, there is not any "darken/lighten/freezing" EVF. Also in dark conditions A99ii is focusing better in low light and low contrast objects even with old Minolta F4 lenses, when a9 is loosing focus with F1.4/1.8 . This is very strange to me

 

[noggin2k1]

Because the A99II doesn't focus at wide apertures.

Experience tells me the A9 is much better at focussing in low light - doesn't sound the same behaviour as my A9..

 

[MikeRan]

When shooting with a9 there is some annoying blinks and freezes of EVF/Display. For example, if I am on aperture 8 with underexposure -1, before pressing the shutter, aperture is normally closed at 8 and at the moment of focusing, when I'm on half shutter, the aperture opens for a moment and then closes again, causing a blink in the viewfinder. With a99 / a99mk2 the aperture is always open, and even if I am at 8, it does not close to measure the light, but it measures it in an electronic way . The same is with Panasonic GH4. As a result, a99 / a99mk2 has no blinking and freezing of the viewfinder and the display. At a99mk2 the view via EVF is just like DLSR OVF - very smooth and there are no interruptions when you focus and meter the light.

Does anybody know if there is a solution to this problem?

 

[boni bonev]

Because the A99II doesn't focus at wide apertures.

Experience tells me the A9 is much better at focussing in low light - doesn't sound the same behaviour as my A9..

Not, A99mk2 is focusing perfectly even with old Minolta 50/1.7 in dim light and low contrast, where a9 can't focus with zeiss 55/1.8 and 35/1.4 and only hunting. The big benefit of a99mk2 is in very low contrast.

 

[SQLGuy]

Depending on the lens, a "solution" to this "problem" might be to turn off display setting effect. Or switch to adapted lenses that don't emulate native behavior. In both cases you may be trading your "problem" for a real problem of focus shift, and definitely losing the full time depth of field preview that you have now.

--
A7-II with SEL2470Z and a number of adapted lenses (Canon FD, Minolta AF, Canon EF, Leica, Nikon...); NEX-7 converted to IR.

 

[boni bonev]

Depending on the lens, a "solution" to this "problem" might be to turn off display setting effect. Or switch to adapted lenses that don't emulate native behavior. In both cases you may be trading your "problem" for a real problem of focus shift, and definitely losing the full time depth of field preview that you have now.

 

[SQLGuy]

Depending on the lens, a "solution" to this "problem" might be to turn off display setting effect. Or switch to adapted lenses that don't emulate native behavior. In both cases you may be trading your "problem" for a real problem of focus shift, and definitely losing the full time depth of field preview that you have now.

 

[boni bonev]

Depending on the lens, a "solution" to this "problem" might be to turn off display setting effect. Or switch to adapted lenses that don't emulate native behavior. In both cases you may be trading your "problem" for a real problem of focus shift, and definitely losing the full time depth of field preview that you have now.

 

[osv]

Depending on the lens, a "solution" to this "problem" might be to turn off display setting effect. Or switch to adapted lenses that don't emulate native behavior. In both cases you may be trading your "problem" for a real problem of focus shift, and definitely losing the full time depth of field preview that you have now.

--
A7-II with SEL2470Z and a number of adapted lenses (Canon FD, Minolta AF, Canon EF, Leica, Nikon...); NEX-7 converted to IR.

I can't understand why a99ii don't have this "problem" . It also working in full live view similar to A7/A9 models with "setting efect on", "full time depth of field preview" etc.

--
http://bonibonev.com

No, it is not. It is working like a DSLR. It leaves the lens wide open until the shutter is released or until DOF preview is engaged. Try it. Set to F8 in A mode on your A99II, then engage DOF preview. Notice the difference in depth of field.

--
A7-II with SEL2470Z and a number of adapted lenses (Canon FD, Minolta AF, Canon EF, Leica, Nikon...); NEX-7 converted to IR.

Yes, I know this very well. I wrote this in my first post. Panasonic cameras working also in this way just like DSLR with lens wide open. Yes, DOF preview is only with button, you are right, but there is not "blinking" . Also A99mk2 EVF is working like DSLR OVF - very smooth without short freezing when fast focusing and refocusing.

no, you confused the issue for everyone when you said "i can't understand why a99ii don't have this problem", which is why he explained it to you... a99ii always holds the aperture open all the time, a7/a7 series usually doesn't.

he's telling you that holding the aperture open all the time is a disadvantage, because it's not true wysiwyg, like you can get with the a7/a9 series... it can also cause focus shifting problems.

that said, i have sometimes seen your same exposure fluttering effect, using the fe90 on my a7r, even with the lens set wide open at f/2.8... it doesn't always do it, but it shouldn't need to ever do that effect, when the aperture is wide open... i can't remember if it's actually caused by aperture movement? can you hear the aperture moving?

have you experimented with different settings, like setting effect: "OFF", vs. "ON"? full manual operation mode? etc.

--
dan

 

[SQLGuy]

Pretty sure it's entirely caused by the EVF/LCD needing to adjust predicted exposure based on the actual light hitting the sensor. When the aperture opens wide for focusing, it takes the preview a split second to reduce light gain to account for the extra brightness. When it stops back down again, it has to adjust again, and may also have to run a longer preview exposure to gather enough light for the display.

I would expect pretty similar behavior from the A99II on entering and exiting DOF preview when the selected aperture is much smaller than the max aperture of the lens.

 

[SurfFish]

The way you describe the problem, it looks like the contrast af takes over. Already on F8 then underexposed -1. What happen if it is exposed to +1? Can you disable contrast af?

Also seen similar behavior with A6300 when battery is low. Tried fresh battery?

Have fun!

 

[MikeRan]

The way you describe the problem, it looks like the contrast af takes over. Already on F8 then underexposed -1. What happen if it is exposed to +1? Can you disable contrast af?

Also seen similar behavior with A6300 when battery is low. Tried fresh battery?

Have fun!

This has nothing to do with contrast AF.

this issue has gotten way more confusing than it needs to be.

As has been stated, the flickering is due to the adjustment of the aperture and a lack of sync/delay with the EVF gain adjustment. Not much you can do about it except realize which settings affect how much the aperture changes as you operate the camera.

You should do your own experiments. You will learn best how the camera behaves with your lenses. I experimented with A and P mode.

A mode is WYSIWYG for aperture. That is, when your framing your shot, the aperture is what you set. When you half press, the camera opens the aperture to focus. If you’re in AF-C, the aperture stays open until you click the shutter. If you are in continuous mode AF-C continues at the set aperture (if it can. If not, focus is fixed with the first shot). If you’re in single shot, the aperture opens to focus, and then closes back to your set aperture.

In P mode the aperture while you’re framing is NOT WYSIWYG. I have seen slight aperture changes while focusing. I don’t know why, but th camera does its thing and it works. Occasionally there is a little flickering but it’s usually not bad.

As others have said, differences between a9 and a99II seem to be related to the fact that aO9 is not WYSIWYG for aperture.

recommend you try adjusting the aperture in program shift mode (in “P”) to see if that helps you understand. I suspect this operates similar to your a99.

 

[steelhead3]

The 99II focuses and meters like all dslrs wide open....it also focuses down to -4 ev with a 2.8 lens while the A9 goes to -3 ev and requires a F2 lens.

 

[SurfFish]

The way you describe the problem, it looks like the contrast af takes over. Already on F8 then underexposed -1. What happen if it is exposed to +1? Can you disable contrast af?

Also seen similar behavior with A6300 when battery is low. Tried fresh battery?

Have fun!

I replied my questions and thoughts to the operator but since you comment on my reply, I'll play.

This has nothing to do with contrast AF.

how can you be so sure?

this issue has gotten way more confusing than it needs to be.

I get more confused even more .

OSV is right the A7 series usually doesn't focuses like the A99ii (don't know if this is same with A9). But reading SQLGuy's (who made a good point with DOF preview) third response he talks about focusing on wide aperture then back down again. It doesn't makes sense for me so I theorize a contrast af behavior specially in AF-C mode in low light stop down aperture. So I started asking questions to validate my theory.

As has been stated, the flickering is due to the adjustment of the aperture and a lack of sync/delay with the EVF gain adjustment. Not much you can do about it except realize which settings affect how much the aperture changes as you operate the camera.

Others quite explain it very well but I'm not convinced.

You should do your own experiments. You will learn best how the camera behaves with your lenses. I experimented with A and P mode.

Thats great! So how would you describe contrast AF behavior in low light at F8 with -1 ev with your A9? And better try it with AF-C vs AF-S using your A9? A99ii from what I read do not have on sensor contrast detect points anymore.

A mode is WYSIWYG for aperture. That is, when your framing your shot, the aperture is what you set. When you half press, the camera opens the aperture to focus. If you’re in AF-C, the aperture stays open until you click the shutter. If you are in continuous mode AF-C continues at the set aperture (if it can. If not, focus is fixed with the first shot). If you’re in single shot, the aperture opens to focus, and then closes back to your set aperture.

You lose me there, are you describing A99ii or a9 focus behavior?

In P mode the aperture while you’re framing is NOT WYSIWYG.

I beg to disagree. The "wysiwyg" (either true or not) is a "wysiwyg" till you turn it off. A, S or P mode are auto modes.

I have seen slight aperture changes while focusing. I don’t know why, but th camera does its thing and it works. Occasionally there is a little flickering but it’s usually not bad.

As others have said, differences between a9 and a99II seem to be related to the fact that aO9 is not WYSIWYG for aperture.

you mean not true wysiwyg?

recommend you try adjusting the aperture in program shift mode (in “P”) to see if that helps you understand. I suspect this operates similar to your a99.

No help at all if you are curious.

One other theory I have is the separate metering sensor on A99ii that it does not have to rely on on-sensor metering so no disturbance to the live view feed to transfer metering info coming from the main sensor off A9.

 

[osv]

This has nothing to do with contrast AF.

how can you be so sure?

it certainly hunts the exposure, like it's cdaf focusing

As has been stated, the flickering is due to the adjustment of the aperture and a lack of sync/delay with the EVF gain adjustment. Not much you can do about it except realize which settings affect how much the aperture changes as you operate the camera.

Others quite explain it very well but I'm not convinced.

me either, because as i pointed out earlier, i saw it fluttering the exposure even when i had the lens manually set wide open at f/2.8... why would it close the aperture to some unknown setting, then re-open it?

In P mode the aperture while you’re framing is NOT WYSIWYG.

I beg to disagree. The "wysiwyg" (either true or not) is a "wysiwyg" till you turn it off. A, S or P mode are auto modes.

on the a7/a9 cameras, you can definitely turn off true wysiwyg functionality with setting effect: "OFF"... with that, the camera tries to give a usable picture in the evf regardless of what anything else is doing... that is not wysiwyg.

i never ever use p-mode, so i can't say how it works... what i have seen is that when face recognition is on, the camera will override everything else, even when it's in m-mode:

"Detects the faces of your subjects and adjusts the focus, exposure, flash settings and performs image processing automatically."

http://docs.esupport.sony.com/dvimag/ILCE-7_ILCE-7R_guide/en/contents/TP0000226615.html

i think that setting is what caused the exposure fluttering that i saw when the fe90/a7r was set wide open at f/2.8... it respected the f/2.8 dof, but it seemed to ignore everything else.

hence my suggestion to experiment with different settings, including turning off face detection.

--
dan

 

[MikeRan]

I only have an a9 I don’t have a99II

This has nothing to do with contrast AF.

how can you be so sure?

it happens independent of AF-S or AF-C. AF-C doesn’t engage CDAF. I am positive. Also, you can hear the aperture changing in a quiet room. The flickering ALWAYS happens when you hear that sound.

this issue has gotten way more confusing than it needs to be.

I get more confused even more .

OSV is right the A7 series usually doesn't focuses like the A99ii (don't know if this is same with A9). But reading SQLGuy's (who made a good point with DOF preview) third response he talks about focusing on wide aperture then back down again. It doesn't makes sense for me so I theorize a contrast af behavior specially in AF-C mode in low light stop down aperture. So I started asking questions to validate my theory.

from what I can tell a9 focuses wide open always... Except DURING a burst.

As has been stated, the flickering is due to the adjustment of the aperture and a lack of sync/delay with the EVF gain adjustment. Not much you can do about it except realize which settings affect how much the aperture changes as you operate the camera.

Others quite explain it very well but I'm not convinced.

only you can choose what to believe.

You should do your own experiments. You will learn best how the camera behaves with your lenses. I experimented with A and P mode.

Thats great! So how would you describe contrast AF behavior in low light at F8 with -1 ev with your A9? And better try it with AF-C vs AF-S using your A9? A99ii from what I read do not have on sensor contrast detect points anymore.

i describe it as the camera opens the aperture to focus and closes back down again. That’s why it flickers. Listen for the aperture changing you can hear it separate from the focus motor especially if the focus is very close, as the focus motor barely moves.

A mode is WYSIWYG for aperture. That is, when your framing your shot, the aperture is what you set. When you half press, the camera opens the aperture to focus. If you’re in AF-C, the aperture stays open until you click the shutter. If you are in continuous mode AF-C continues at the set aperture (if it can. If not, focus is fixed with the first shot). If you’re in single shot, the aperture opens to focus, and then closes back to your set aperture.

You lose me there, are you describing A99ii or a9 focus behavior?

a9

In P mode the aperture while you’re framing is NOT WYSIWYG.

I beg to disagree. The "wysiwyg" (either true or not) is a "wysiwyg" till you turn it off. A, S or P mode are auto modes.

i said APERTURE WYSIWYG. I didn’t mean simply exposure WYSIWYG. I’m describing whether the view you see includes DOF preview. In P mode, during framing, it is NOT DOF preview. During A mode, it IS DOF preview. The a9 does not have any DOF preview button.

I have seen slight aperture changes while focusing. I don’t know why, but th camera does its thing and it works. Occasionally there is a little flickering but it’s usually not bad.

As others have said, differences between a9 and a99II seem to be related to the fact that aO9 is not WYSIWYG for aperture.

you mean not true wysiwyg?

correct. A99 WYSIWYG does not include DOF preview as it does SOMETIMES on the a9. See explanation above.

recommend you try adjusting the aperture in program shift mode (in “P”) to see if that helps you understand. I suspect this operates similar to your a99.

No help at all if you are curious.

your gear list doesn’t include a9. If you have an a9, you should try different apertures in A and in P and check out the various behaviors. Use a framing that has a close subject and a distant subject so you can see the aperture blur or look through the front of the lens if you can see the aperture with your eyes. I believe a99 as others have stated doesn’t have this DOF WYSIWYG behavior.

One other theory I have is the separate metering sensor on A99ii that it does not have to rely on on-sensor metering so no disturbance to the live view feed to transfer metering info coming from the main sensor off A9.

 

[MikeRan]

Osv, some of these differences may depend on the lens...

 

[steelhead3]

Push the button by lens and DOF is shown like most A mount cameras.