Biggest Problem with NEX cameras

[twald]

I too noticed the "failed wb" message a lot on the 5n. It after seeing that it actually adjusts the wb even when it displays the message, I started ignoring the warning" I can't see any difference between a good and a "failed" wb adjustment.

However, it drives me insane when it says it failed on WB measurement. Never seen a any camera do that. I was hoping they addressed that over the Nex-5.

 

[mswlogo]

Since I myself had inital difficulties calibrating WB, I noticed that it usually fails if the camera is set to Auto ISO.

If you set it to ISO 100, ....800, and then shoot at a grey card or white tissue, it works just fine.

interesting. thanks for the tip.

 

[Dohmnuill]

Nell, I tend to seek advice on gear or techniques from a number of sources, including Ken R. He clearly states his photographic preferences, which are not closely allied to mine, and is not too haughty to change his opinion if better evidence or equipment arrives. Nor does he set himself up as Gravitas Central. Entertainment sometimes, yes, but why not. Photography is a very middle-brow hobby for most, a bit of artistic fun, not a life and death struggle. Several well published pro's I know regularly check his site and are not too self-important to say they pick up useful info., particularly in the lenses area. Eminently worth quoting.

The pompous dismissal of Ken seems to be from those whom you would expect to have far superior snaps compared with Ken. Yet, when you do a little check, things don't seem to be that way. If I read such criticism on this site, the critic is not exactly Mr Nat. Geo. or Mr Ariz. Highways material. But far, far more important, and waaaay more knowledgeable, of course.

"Oh yes, Ken is a joke/rotter/ignoramus, not a serious and knowledgeable chap like myself. Don't read him; of course I don't, well not more than twice a day..".

I wonder if they're proud of their ignorance?

 

[paratom]

I don't complain too much about problems with the NEX cameras because overall I think they're pretty good but Sony needs to do something about the indoor white balance issue.

The NEX cameras are the wost I've seen and pictures posted on this forum prove the point.

It's terrible to have to set a custom white balance (and hope for the best) every time you take a picture with incandescent lighting.

Shooting raw is only a band-aid and not the answer, because most modern day cameras get the white balance very close.

What's really amazing is that many people, posting to this forum, seem to be proud of their yellow pictures.

I shoot raw all the time and still dont understand why people dont shoot raw.

Regarding WB during shooting (yes, I still set WB during shooting because of influence in the histogramm) I rather use the presets or custom WB than auto on every camera. So while there are some things I could see improved with the Nex (AF for example, or exp bracketing, or auto iso settings) I personally dont see any problem with its WB.

 

[pabloban]

Hello John.

This seems quite plausible and wise. Without being sarcastic.

Is there any RAW converter you can suggest from your experience, please?

Until now I am stuck with LR because I like it's interface best. Besides that, I also tried to export photos via the supplied SONY Image converter, but the results in regards to sharpness and detail couldn't match the LR exports in no way, eventhough the colors were a bit better than that green fog from LR and SOOC JPEGs.

Damn that color profile from Adobe.

Thank.

 

[wes mallard]

The thing is you can see the color balance of your scene right in the camera either before or after taking the shot. On my 5n I have the bottom button set to WB so that I can change the wb with ease. I often do change the wb from auto.

I too noticed the yellow cast to pictures when I first started shooting the nex. Now I almost subconciously change the wb for most of my shots to make a pleasing display on the live view lcd or the viewfinder: I use both. WB has ceased to be an issue for me.

Off the topic, I also use the sony adapter and the phase detection autofocus makes my indoor picture taking much easier. I mostly shoot it with the sony 35mm f1.8.

Regards

Wes

 

[John Bean (UK)]

Is there any RAW converter you can suggest from your experience, please?

I like the current LR (or ACR) but only with a proper profile for the camera. Fortunately it's ridiculously simple to make one if you have a 24-patch ColorChecker of some sort, since the free X-rite software for the ColorChecker Passport works just fine with any ColorChecker and is completely automatic.

Until now I am stuck with LR because I like it's interface best. [...]

Damn that color profile from Adobe.

Indeed, and my feelings exactly. Get a ColorChecker, take a picture of it, import into LR as a DNG, export to the X-rite plugin, give the profile a name, done. It's so easy you can make as many as you like in all sorts of odd lighting, and although the ColorChecker image has to be DNG the resulting profile will work with any raw file from the same camera.

Here are two test shots not meant to be artistic but to check exactly the thing we're discussing in this thread. Both a straight imports into LR with new "default" settings that use my own profiles and lens corrections for the two cameras, in other words they are the first thing I see before any manual adjustments are made:









No attempt was made to match colour or WB, the only manual adjustment was a slight exposure change for the X100 image to match the overall brightness of the NEX-C3+CV15 image. I'm pretty happy with the LR colour from both

Incidentally, when I had two NEX-5's they showed completely different colour with the default Adobe profiles and I needed to keep individual profiles for each camera to make them match. It's always a good idea to make a profile for your camera rather than one someone else made and posted somewhere.

PS: my favourite raw converter for best colour straight out the box is Silkypix; despite its erm... unusual UI I used it for years when the Adobe products were really hard to profile and had awful defaults. SP always produced lovely colour even at default settings.

No going back now though, LR with custom profiles beats it hands down.

--
John Bean [GMT]

 

[pabloban]

Thank you for your advice.

I copied them to my remarks on the side. I will try to give one more chance to the 5N with the help of color profiling. Hope, it helps the colors somehow.

 

[jtyoung]

This is reasonably germain to the topic at hand. A lot of indoor scenes have multiple light sources and AWB just doesn't do a good job no matter what you try. I almost never trust AWB as a result and usually shoot raw. But it's never been that easy to compensate for multiple light sources in camera. Check out Matt Kloskowski's latest video ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPOcaHTYlHE ) to get a sense of the problem and solution.

 

[ohmydentist]

If you care that much about your photos to complain in forums, you should've been shooting raws.

Shooting jpg alone is like shooting polaroids.

--
^ ^

Just Shoot !

 

[pabloban]

If only LR4 wouldn't require to run on M$ Vista or later.

 

[jtyoung]

Get a Mac! ;-)

 

[Nell27]

If you care that much about your photos to complain in forums, you should've been shooting raws.

Shooting jpg alone is like shooting polaroids.

A few years ago I would have agreed with you but with the improvements in jpg engines and programs like Photoshop I'm not sure anymore.

Anyway, it's obvious from looking at the pictures posted in this forum that most people are shooting jpg and most are using auto white balance.

I never use auto white balance indoors, with incandescent lighting because it doesn't work, but I will admit that at least 70% of the time I shoot jpg.

Still believe everyone would benefit from a white balance firmware fix.

 

[hellocrowley]

This happened to me alot too. I thought it was my fault because I didn't bother reading the manual.

I too noticed the "failed wb" message a lot on the 5n. It after seeing that it actually adjusts the wb even when it displays the message, I started ignoring the warning" I can't see any difference between a good and a "failed" wb adjustment.

However, it drives me insane when it says it failed on WB measurement. Never seen a any camera do that. I was hoping they addressed that over the Nex-5.

 

[dbose]

I feel AWB is very close with all three cameras. Although I would chose the minolta as the winner, slightly. This Warm cast indoors might be Minolta legacy coming through.
Dave

 

[DuncanDovovan]

If I look out the window and my neighbor's light-apricot-yellow house can be shot with correct and real colors by one camera and the other camera mutates the colors into the green dimension, I don't think it is OK.

Subjective WB and bla bla personal expression is one thing, incorrect color another.

What you can see from my LR RAW and auto WB exports is, that the NEX has issues even after correcting the WB to attain neutral or realistically looking colors. It is not only a question of the WB. You just can do what you want, this camera just isn't able to record color correctly.

Dear Pabloban. There is no such thing as correct or real white in pictures. Believe me it does NOT exist. Have a look at these pictures and I hope you understand what I mean:

http://www.google.com/search?q=white&hl=en&prmd=imvnse&source=lnms&tbm=isch&ei=0ZI9T4n8OsnMsgaNr6XIBA&sa=X&oi=mode_link&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CBcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=1122

White is always interpretation.

For example this white dress: http://www.wedding-kate.com/2011/05/26/bridal-gowns-for-rent/

According to you this is a wrong exposure. I say it is great!

If you really go nuts because of "wrong" WB, shoot raw.

 

[mswlogo]

Since I myself had inital difficulties calibrating WB, I noticed that it usually fails if the camera is set to Auto ISO.

If you set it to ISO 100, ....800, and then shoot at a grey card or white tissue, it works just fine.

interesting. thanks for the tip.

Sorry it does not work. Tried a whole bunch of ISO's failed every time.

You must have been on the edge when you had it work.

What's nice about expodisc is you can point it right the light source. And it still fails.

 

[mswlogo]

By the way, when it fails, what it's saying is that it's white balance adjustment is railed.

Basically, that it measured too warm and can't adjust any cooler than it's coolest setting.

That's why it always says 2500K when it fails.

It wants to set it to 2400K or 2300K based on measurement but can't.

So yeah, the camera can't do any better.

 

[cxsparc]

Very strange. I haven't had any issue with manual WB since setting it to a fixed ISO previously.

I do that in P, A or M mode mit SEL or manaual lenses, no issue.
Either your cam is defective or there is something else which you didn't tell.

Sure your not overexposing your shot in that moment?

I use a grey paper out of a photo book or plain white paper tissue, you know the one for blowing your nose

 

[paratom]

The thing is you can see the color balance of your scene right in the camera either before or after taking the shot. On my 5n I have the bottom button set to WB so that I can change the wb with ease. I often do change the wb from auto.

I too noticed the yellow cast to pictures when I first started shooting the nex. Now I almost subconciously change the wb for most of my shots to make a pleasing display on the live view lcd or the viewfinder: I use both. WB has ceased to be an issue for me.

Off the topic, I also use the sony adapter and the phase detection autofocus makes my indoor picture taking much easier. I mostly shoot it with the sony 35mm f1.8.

Regards

Wes

We have to be carefull to not overrate the color-accurancy of a small EVF or display.