Bad Noise in Low Light ... is this normal

[Laurence Matson]

Shoei,

This image should not be an unusual occurence for any SD10 user:



once in a while.

I would guess that I have about 7 of those in the 5000 taken with my SD10 thus far. They just happen. I have not found a real pattern. The first time was on a bitter cold night, and I thought that was it. The most recent was not.

However, if you get a large number like that, then you might have a problem.

A night-shot camera this is not; however, it is not a bad available light camera. The most important thing for me is not to over-expose available light shots. The sensor will actually produce a pretty good shot in the 3-6 sec. range at a reasonable f-stop. There is nothing specific here, so you just have to shoot a series and see which comes out best. Then use that setting for similar shots.

I have had the best results with my trusty (very old) 1° spot meter. I will read the brightest highlight and close down 2-3 stops. That will be my starting point.

In my experience, the night sky is usually pretty black. Therefore, I tend to leave it there. Long exposures à la M. Fill As Key make for what I like to call CNN Bagdad skies.

Finally, remember it is about photography - drawing light. The SD10 does not take well to overexposure (nor do any other cameras really). Get the right exposure and reduce it by 1/3 stop, and you will get the best results IMNSHO.

--
Laurence

There is a tide in the affairs of men,
Which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune;
Omitted, all the voyage of their life
Is bound in shallows and in miseries.

http://www.pbase.com/lmatson/root
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/root
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sigma/sd10
http://www.pbase.com/cameras/sigma/sd9
http://www.beachbriss.com (eternal test site)

 

[Adam-T]

helpful to date, but I guess I'd interpreted responses to my "low
light" questions prior to buying the camera as the problem was not
as bad as the reviews etc, made out ......

I've not used an SD10, just seen all the reports here and wrote it off due to the price - but bought the SD9 fully knowing that it's a good light outdoors or Flash camera with battery issues (not as bad as I'd thought) and even less use for long exposures than my 1D (which is saying something) - the reason I got one instead of a used D60 (apart from price - even a used D60 costs more than an SD9) was image quality, it's the only non-Pro DSLR I know of which matches the 1D for pixel level sharpness and gets close in the dynamic range stakes .

The outcome is that i've got what amounts to the equivalent of a slow plastic 3rd World 1D copy (Image wise) plus 2 excellent lenses for under 1/3 of the price of a beat up 1D with more miles on the clock than a London Taxi... I can live with the limitations as it fills in where the 1D has probs such as Moire (Except Long exposures) .

Now onto your problems - I found the DC Kit lenses to be excellent for the price, teh 18-50 like most WA Zooms isn't the best resolving of lenses but gets the job done, it does have CA probs as you say but the 55-200 is VERY sharp indeed, even wide open and unless the SD10 is softer than the SD9 (Microlenses and all that) and requires better glass, I can only suggest that you may have a problem with the camera's AF system.. The Blue sky thing is easily fixed in Photoshop by using selective colour -

I can understand your anguish, It's easy to write these kind of things off when you paid less money than a hi-end Digicam (the SD9 + DC Lens Kit) but not when you paid Fuji S2 money..

I hate to say this but I guess you could return the lot as "faulty" based on the long exposure noise, blue blotchy skies and AF problems and get an S2, 10D, D70, whatever suits you best because long exposures are really 10D territory, not SD10.. It's a shame as the detail these cameras drag up and the Dynamic range they have are excellent.

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

EOS-1D & Sigma SD9 - Sharper than a Saville Row Suit!

 

[Dominic Groß]

Did you cover the viewfinder for this long exposure?

--
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/dominic_gross_sd10

 

[Unda Covalava]

It makes my decision much easier. It's 300D for me.

 

[Ulli R]

you have no noise,
but often "error99" )

It makes my decision much easier. It's 300D for me.

--
Sorry, i will learn more english

 

[DaSonyGuy]

.... if only I could afford all of that EX glass.

Shoei, dont bother dreaming of the unobtainable, just make your way to ebay and buy some of the many excellent M42 screw fits prime lenses.

If you dont mind using manual focus then these could be the answer to all your lens problems.

For the price of a single Sigma 50mm f2.8 EX you could possibly buy 20-30 M42 lenses!!!

Many of them are the match of any Sigma EX lens, some are even the equal of Canons best "L-glass", but not all of them of course....You pays your money and takes your chances....Luckily they are nearly all so cheap you can afford to buy a few that are not so good and a few that are excellent without beaking the bank.

If you find yourself with a baddun, knock it straight back out on ebay and you've lost nothing.

Luckily every M42 lens I have bought has turned out to be a good lens, usually with virtually no CA and very sharp, with my 400mm f5.6 being perhaps the softest, though still sharp.

The only con I can think of is that they usually have lower contrast than modern Sigma zooms though this can be corrected when processing the images in SPP2, then Photoshop etc.

Here's some pics all taken with M42 lenses, on a dull overcast day:

http://www.pbase.com/dasigmaguy/london_through_m42_lenses

 

[Adam-T]

Shoei, dont bother dreaming of the unobtainable, just make your way
to ebay and buy some of the many excellent M42 screw fits prime
lenses.

Remembering of course that you have to buy an expensive adapter from Japan to do the job properly, that there will be no usable accurate metering (Guess via LCD), that you have to manually stop down the aperture before taking a pic, that the SDx aren't MF cameras so don't have a split screen viewfinder and definately no Autofocus of course .. OK for serious enthusiasts with time on their hands but without doubt by far the least practical way of achieving decent lens quality - even a 25yr old K1000 is far easier and way faster to run by a long mark..

Just thought I'd point this out before Shoei runs out and buys an M42 lens and posts "What do I do now" and ends up banging his helmet on the wall in frustration ;-)

--
Please ignore the Typos, I'm the world's worst Typist

EOS-1D & Sigma SD9 - Sharper than a Saville Row Suit!

 

[Yeti]

It makes my decision much easier. It's 300D for me.

Don't want to burst your bubble but came across this in the 300d forum.



--
http://www.pbase.com/cbultmann

With an infinite number of monkeys pecking randomly at typewriters for all eternity,
the works of Shakespeare would eventually be typed. My message: Two monkeys,
ten minutes

 

[Shoei]

Yes

Did you cover the viewfinder for this long exposure?

--
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/dominic_gross_sd10

--
Enjoy Life ......
.... this is NOT a rehearsal !!!

 

[DaSonyGuy]

Shoei, dont bother dreaming of the unobtainable, just make your way
to ebay and buy some of the many excellent M42 screw fits prime
lenses.

Remembering of course that you have to buy an expensive adapter
from Japan to do the job properly

"Properly" is a very subjective term...You dont HAVE to buy "an expensive adapter from Japan" if you use a Pentax K to M42 adapter which is very widely available and is far from being expensive....It will allow an M42 lens to fit and be used "properly", providing you know its limitations.

Buy a Pentax K mounts lens, do the neccessary, simple mod' and it fits with no adapter at all!

that there will be no usable accurate metering (Guess via LCD), that you > have to manually stop down the aperture before taking a pic,

No, you simply use "stop down metering".

Its very simple and quick to set the lens aperture then set the camera to the same aperture so that it records the true aperture in the EXIF data or set the camera to f5.6 as a compromise for metering and just simply adjust the lens aperture.

that the SDx aren't MF cameras so don't have a split screen viewfinder

and definately no Autofocus of course .. OK for serious enthusiasts with > time on their hands.

You cant have tried it then Adam, because IMO its certainly no slower than using an AF lens, once you are used to it.

It can even be a lot quicker than using an AF lens in low light where an AF lens will very often hunt like crazy or may not be able to get a focus lock at all.

I also have no problems at all focusing with the SD10's non split-screen viewfinder even with my Tokina 24mm f2.8 which I find is a cinch to use.

I'll admit, I do have one M42 lens whch is a bit tricky to focus, a 35mm f2.8 but I have a viewfinder magnifier I can use for that.

but without doubt by far the least practical way of
achieving decent lens quality

For those on a us on a very low budget, like me and perhaps, I suspect, the majority of Sigma owners, M42 lenses offer the ONLY affordable way to get decent lens quality, today, not in several years time when you have saved enough to buy a single EX lens.

IMO, manual focus M42 lens are also very practical and without power draining AF, your batteries also last longer,...something to bear in mind.

Just thought I'd point this out before Shoei runs out and buys an
M42 lens and posts "What do I do now" and ends up banging his
helmet on the wall in frustration ;-)

I dont think he will be frustrated,...You should give the man more credit Adam...He is obviously very intelligent...After all, He bought a Sigma!

 

[Shoei]

Hi,

I decided to do an "acid test" and do shutter times shots of the back of the lens cap, reasoning being that this would be zero light and hence all noise only.

These are the results

15 Seconds
http://www.pbase.com/image/28539215

10 Seconds
http://www.pbase.com/image/28539399

(Ran out of space on Pbase)

Anything above 5 seconds has a lot of Blue / Green noise in it, almost like a pattern of hot pixels. at 3.2 seconds it's acceptable.

Could some people do the same so I can compare it with their SD10's

• Set to S mode
• Leave lens cap on
• set focus to manual
• Shoot at 15 sec down to 2 seconds (or wherever the noise ceases to be a factor)
• processs to jpg without SPP adjustments.

I really need to know if the Camera should go back for adjustment, or just back.

Thanks in Advance

Cheers.....

Shoei

Here are the first two "cityscape" shots. The first is as it came
out of the camera (no auto or custom SPP tweaks), the second (which
shows up the noise) was with a little "fill light" tweaking in SPP.

http://www.pbase.com/image/28520800
http://www.pbase.com/image/28520889

When people talk about the Sigmas being noisy in poor light, I
think what they mean is that it gets noisy when the image is
underexposed, or when the shutter speed gets very slow, like more
than a few seconds. The SD10 does better than the SD9, but is
still not known for great low-light shooting.

Your sample above was shot at ISO 100, but "pushed" +1.4 stops in
SPP, and shadows brightened by +0.4 as well. So it's really more
like an ISO 400 shot, or two-stop underexposed for ISO 100. I
think that if you just set the shadow level back to zero, and let
the black areas be black, it will look a lot better.

Many settings can make noise show up more: Exposure push, shadow,
contrast, saturation, and especially Fill Light. If there's not
enough light in those dark areas, all you will see by pushing it is
noise.

For night shots, avoid Fill Light, or use it slightly negative to
clean up the black areas.

I was a little confused about this, and so I shot an F20 15sec
exposure of the front of my house. The results were absolutely
terrible (unusable). This is the result as it came from the Camera
(no auto or custom SPP tweaks).

http://www.pbase.com/image/28520980

Is this normal ?
Is anyone else seeing this
Is it something I'm doing wrong ?
have I picked up a lemon ?

That does NOT look normal. Sometimes the AWB messes up on long
exposures; try changing it to a fixed balance such as incandescent
and see if that helps. But probably something worse has gone bad
with that shot. Does it consistently do that at very long
exposures?

j

--
Enjoy Life ......
.... this is NOT a rehearsal !!!

 

[Shoei]

Thanks for that,

If I end up keeping the SD10 I will do just that.

Cheers....

Shoei

.... if only I could afford all of that EX glass.

Shoei, dont bother dreaming of the unobtainable, just make your way
to ebay and buy some of the many excellent M42 screw fits prime
lenses.
If you dont mind using manual focus then these could be the answer
to all your lens problems.
For the price of a single Sigma 50mm f2.8 EX you could possibly buy
20-30 M42 lenses!!!
Many of them are the match of any Sigma EX lens, some are even the
equal of Canons best "L-glass", but not all of them of
course....You pays your money and takes your chances....Luckily
they are nearly all so cheap you can afford to buy a few that are
not so good and a few that are excellent without beaking the bank.
If you find yourself with a baddun, knock it straight back out on
ebay and you've lost nothing.
Luckily every M42 lens I have bought has turned out to be a good
lens, usually with virtually no CA and very sharp, with my 400mm
f5.6 being perhaps the softest, though still sharp.
The only con I can think of is that they usually have lower
contrast than modern Sigma zooms though this can be corrected when
processing the images in SPP2, then Photoshop etc.

Here's some pics all taken with M42 lenses, on a dull overcast day:

http://www.pbase.com/dasigmaguy/london_through_m42_lenses

--
Enjoy Life ......
.... this is NOT a rehearsal !!!

 

[J. Michael]

the concept was introduced here before, by L. Matson I believe.

Don't wait until dark to take your pictures. It requires a little bit of planning but the results can be very good. Shoot just before everything gets dark (early dusk if you will) and then pull the exposue back a little in Spp. You get better dynamic range, fewer blown highlights and very neglible noise(sounds like you already understand all this stuff). Yeah, it's cheating, but most digital dramatic lighting scenes are manipulated in one way or another. I'm still working it out, but every now and then it works out. The 300D pix shown a couple of messages just above this post (which is very nice) was shot during the "Golden Hour", I'm pretty sure.

When I really need to capture a very dark scene I shoot slides and have 'em scanned.

Tried this shot on the night of the full moon and it didn't work out. Went back a month later on the night before the full moon and this is what I got......30 minutes can make a big difference between succcess and failure. I'm definitely not an expert on this, but I do hope the info is helpful.
SD9 70-300 APO



Mike

Hi All,

First of all thanks for the support, this group has been great.

Continuing my test of the SD10 in low light I went for a drive this
evening at dusk and shot a few images. After looking at the images
I've noticed a lot of Green noise. I thought this had been
corrected in the SD-10 so I thought I'd post and find out if it is
so.

Here are the first two "cityscape" shots. The first is as it came
out of the camera (no auto or custom SPP tweaks), the second (which
shows up the noise) was with a little "fill light" tweaking in SPP.

http://www.pbase.com/image/28520800
http://www.pbase.com/image/28520889

I was a little confused about this, and so I shot an F20 15sec
exposure of the front of my house. The results were absolutely
terrible (unusable). This is the result as it came from the Camera
(no auto or custom SPP tweaks).

http://www.pbase.com/image/28520980

Is this normal ?
Is anyone else seeing this
Is it something I'm doing wrong ?
have I picked up a lemon ?

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated

Regards,

Mark

--
Enjoy Life ......
.... this is NOT a rehearsal !!!

 

[ChromeLight]

I think there's something wrong with your camera. I just did your acid test with my SD9. I set the shutter for 10 seconds. My result was pure black. I had not one colorful pixel. Here is the shot

http://www.pbase.com/image/28540183

Regards,
Erik

I decided to do an "acid test" and do shutter times shots of the
back of the lens cap, reasoning being that this would be zero light
and hence all noise only.

These are the results

15 Seconds
http://www.pbase.com/image/28539215

10 Seconds
http://www.pbase.com/image/28539399

(Ran out of space on Pbase)

Anything above 5 seconds has a lot of Blue / Green noise in it,
almost like a pattern of hot pixels. at 3.2 seconds it's acceptable.

Could some people do the same so I can compare it with their SD10's

• Set to S mode
• Leave lens cap on
• set focus to manual
• Shoot at 15 sec down to 2 seconds (or wherever the noise ceases

to be a factor)

• processs to jpg without SPP adjustments.

I really need to know if the Camera should go back for adjustment,
or just back.

Thanks in Advance

Cheers.....

Shoei

Here are the first two "cityscape" shots. The first is as it came
out of the camera (no auto or custom SPP tweaks), the second (which
shows up the noise) was with a little "fill light" tweaking in SPP.

http://www.pbase.com/image/28520800
http://www.pbase.com/image/28520889

When people talk about the Sigmas being noisy in poor light, I
think what they mean is that it gets noisy when the image is
underexposed, or when the shutter speed gets very slow, like more
than a few seconds. The SD10 does better than the SD9, but is
still not known for great low-light shooting.

Your sample above was shot at ISO 100, but "pushed" +1.4 stops in
SPP, and shadows brightened by +0.4 as well. So it's really more
like an ISO 400 shot, or two-stop underexposed for ISO 100. I
think that if you just set the shadow level back to zero, and let
the black areas be black, it will look a lot better.

Many settings can make noise show up more: Exposure push, shadow,
contrast, saturation, and especially Fill Light. If there's not
enough light in those dark areas, all you will see by pushing it is
noise.

For night shots, avoid Fill Light, or use it slightly negative to
clean up the black areas.

I was a little confused about this, and so I shot an F20 15sec
exposure of the front of my house. The results were absolutely
terrible (unusable). This is the result as it came from the Camera
(no auto or custom SPP tweaks).

http://www.pbase.com/image/28520980

Is this normal ?
Is anyone else seeing this
Is it something I'm doing wrong ?
have I picked up a lemon ?

That does NOT look normal. Sometimes the AWB messes up on long
exposures; try changing it to a fixed balance such as incandescent
and see if that helps. But probably something worse has gone bad
with that shot. Does it consistently do that at very long
exposures?

j

--
Enjoy Life ......
.... this is NOT a rehearsal !!!

 

[J. Michael]

got the same result as Chromelight, even at 15 sec with & without the
viewfinder cap on. Won't post the result ' cause it's just a black screen.
If I bump up the exposure and fill to +2 I get red & blue noise but no green.

I decided to do an "acid test" and do shutter times shots of the
back of the lens cap, reasoning being that this would be zero light
and hence all noise only.

These are the results

15 Seconds
http://www.pbase.com/image/28539215

10 Seconds
http://www.pbase.com/image/28539399

(Ran out of space on Pbase)

Anything above 5 seconds has a lot of Blue / Green noise in it,
almost like a pattern of hot pixels. at 3.2 seconds it's acceptable.

Could some people do the same so I can compare it with their SD10's

• Set to S mode
• Leave lens cap on
• set focus to manual
• Shoot at 15 sec down to 2 seconds (or wherever the noise ceases

to be a factor)

• processs to jpg without SPP adjustments.

I really need to know if the Camera should go back for adjustment,
or just back.

Thanks in Advance

Cheers.....

Shoei

Here are the first two "cityscape" shots. The first is as it came
out of the camera (no auto or custom SPP tweaks), the second (which
shows up the noise) was with a little "fill light" tweaking in SPP.

http://www.pbase.com/image/28520800
http://www.pbase.com/image/28520889

When people talk about the Sigmas being noisy in poor light, I
think what they mean is that it gets noisy when the image is
underexposed, or when the shutter speed gets very slow, like more
than a few seconds. The SD10 does better than the SD9, but is
still not known for great low-light shooting.

Your sample above was shot at ISO 100, but "pushed" +1.4 stops in
SPP, and shadows brightened by +0.4 as well. So it's really more
like an ISO 400 shot, or two-stop underexposed for ISO 100. I
think that if you just set the shadow level back to zero, and let
the black areas be black, it will look a lot better.

Many settings can make noise show up more: Exposure push, shadow,
contrast, saturation, and especially Fill Light. If there's not
enough light in those dark areas, all you will see by pushing it is
noise.

For night shots, avoid Fill Light, or use it slightly negative to
clean up the black areas.

I was a little confused about this, and so I shot an F20 15sec
exposure of the front of my house. The results were absolutely
terrible (unusable). This is the result as it came from the Camera
(no auto or custom SPP tweaks).

http://www.pbase.com/image/28520980

Is this normal ?
Is anyone else seeing this
Is it something I'm doing wrong ?
have I picked up a lemon ?

That does NOT look normal. Sometimes the AWB messes up on long
exposures; try changing it to a fixed balance such as incandescent
and see if that helps. But probably something worse has gone bad
with that shot. Does it consistently do that at very long
exposures?

j

--
Enjoy Life ......
.... this is NOT a rehearsal !!!

 

[Shoei]

i suspect you might be right, either that or the entire SD10 batch is bad.

just to be sure can anyone with an SD10 please try the same.

Thanks again (and in Advance)

Cheers....

Shoei

http://www.pbase.com/image/28540183

Regards,
Erik

I decided to do an "acid test" and do shutter times shots of the
back of the lens cap, reasoning being that this would be zero light
and hence all noise only.

These are the results

15 Seconds
http://www.pbase.com/image/28539215

10 Seconds
http://www.pbase.com/image/28539399

(Ran out of space on Pbase)

Anything above 5 seconds has a lot of Blue / Green noise in it,
almost like a pattern of hot pixels. at 3.2 seconds it's acceptable.

Could some people do the same so I can compare it with their SD10's

• Set to S mode
• Leave lens cap on
• set focus to manual
• Shoot at 15 sec down to 2 seconds (or wherever the noise ceases

to be a factor)

• processs to jpg without SPP adjustments.

I really need to know if the Camera should go back for adjustment,
or just back.

Thanks in Advance

Cheers.....

Shoei

Here are the first two "cityscape" shots. The first is as it came
out of the camera (no auto or custom SPP tweaks), the second (which
shows up the noise) was with a little "fill light" tweaking in SPP.

http://www.pbase.com/image/28520800
http://www.pbase.com/image/28520889

When people talk about the Sigmas being noisy in poor light, I
think what they mean is that it gets noisy when the image is
underexposed, or when the shutter speed gets very slow, like more
than a few seconds. The SD10 does better than the SD9, but is
still not known for great low-light shooting.

Your sample above was shot at ISO 100, but "pushed" +1.4 stops in
SPP, and shadows brightened by +0.4 as well. So it's really more
like an ISO 400 shot, or two-stop underexposed for ISO 100. I
think that if you just set the shadow level back to zero, and let
the black areas be black, it will look a lot better.

Many settings can make noise show up more: Exposure push, shadow,
contrast, saturation, and especially Fill Light. If there's not
enough light in those dark areas, all you will see by pushing it is
noise.

For night shots, avoid Fill Light, or use it slightly negative to
clean up the black areas.

I was a little confused about this, and so I shot an F20 15sec
exposure of the front of my house. The results were absolutely
terrible (unusable). This is the result as it came from the Camera
(no auto or custom SPP tweaks).

http://www.pbase.com/image/28520980

Is this normal ?
Is anyone else seeing this
Is it something I'm doing wrong ?
have I picked up a lemon ?

That does NOT look normal. Sometimes the AWB messes up on long
exposures; try changing it to a fixed balance such as incandescent
and see if that helps. But probably something worse has gone bad
with that shot. Does it consistently do that at very long
exposures?

j

--
Enjoy Life ......
.... this is NOT a rehearsal !!!

--
Enjoy Life ......
.... this is NOT a rehearsal !!!

 

[Dominic Groß]

I just did this with my SD10 at 15 sec and despite two pixels (one green and one blue) the Image came out black.

My guess is that the Darkframe substraction in your Camera is not properly working and messing the images up.

--
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/dominic_gross_sd10

 

[jakepatterson]

I think your SD10 is defective, I just did your test with mine at 10 and 15 seconds, and only got a few stray blue dots, using "X3F" settings in SPP.

Hi,

I decided to do an "acid test" and do shutter times shots of the
back of the lens cap, reasoning being that this would be zero light
and hence all noise only.

These are the results

15 Seconds
http://www.pbase.com/image/28539215

10 Seconds
http://www.pbase.com/image/28539399

 

[Shoei]

Well,

I just phoned the suppier and there is Good News and Bad News.

Good News is, thanks to you all I now know that my Camera is suspected defective and it is (hopefully) not the product line (huge relief there, it means an exchange will hopefully result in a largely remedied result).

Bad News is I have a shoot on next Saturday and have to wait a week with a limping camera until I can send it off. (no way they'll get it back to me inside a week)

Argh !

Another thing that was mentioned during is that noise apparentl increases when the camera "warms up". To test this I shot 10 x 15 second exposures in a row to see whether this was a factor (nightshooting is usually a case of find position and take a series over half an hour as the light changes). That was how I was shooting last night.

of the sequence the first image was not that bad (may have fluked it) , then each after that went to custard very quickly.

So, ........ if I can push my "favor defecit" a little further ask some get some SD10 and SD9 users to try this (shoot 10 x 15 sec exposures with the lens cap on) and see if deterioraion is apparent. If this is so the SD10 will have to go back. Brisbane is a warm part of the world and if it gets noisy after only a few shots this would be a showstopper. This would also represent a huge defect in the design of the Camera/Sensor should it be found to be so.

Again, Thanks for the patience and assistance.

Cheers....

Shoei

Hi,

I decided to do an "acid test" and do shutter times shots of the
back of the lens cap, reasoning being that this would be zero light
and hence all noise only.

These are the results

15 Seconds
http://www.pbase.com/image/28539215

10 Seconds
http://www.pbase.com/image/28539399

--
Enjoy Life ......
.... this is NOT a rehearsal !!!

 

[Shoei]

Hi Dominic,

How does the Camera do Darkframe subtraction ?
Sounds interesting (keeping in mind I'm an engineer who loves the tecco stuff).

Cheers....

Shoei

I just did this with my SD10 at 15 sec and despite two pixels (one
green and one blue) the Image came out black.

My guess is that the Darkframe substraction in your Camera is not
properly working and messing the images up.

--
http://www.pbase.com/sigmasd9/dominic_gross_sd10

--
Enjoy Life ......
.... this is NOT a rehearsal !!!