Apple's Safari 4 Reload Button Lunacy

[Dayo]

Except that these buttons are used less and less in browsing. With Internet connections getting faster and browsers better, the stop and reload buttons are rarely needed anymore. And with the advent of tabs, opening links in them eliminates the need for the back button drastically, which is also true for the home button since opening a new tab essentially accomplishes that.

You obviously don't write / debug code.

And you have the option to use a different browser.

This is thankfully correct.

The general problem here is what Steve Jobs himself outlined some ago: "One has to think very carefully before adding a feature, because it is almost impossible to take it back again in the future. People will cry murder."

No need for absolutes. All is needed is to give people options when you decide to make changes especially since is is possible as shown in the beta version.
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http://dakanji.com

'Of what use is a philosopher who doesn't hurt anyone's feelings?'
Diogenes the Cynic, 300 BC.

KenRockwell Supporter

 

[pprior]

Maybe it's because I'm left handed, though I use the mouse with my right hand

But I almost always have my mouse cursor on the left side of the screen. That's where almost all menus are (have a look at the dpreview menu above) and so moving it all the way over right again is not a intuitive thing for a reload.

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[funnelwebmaster]

at the right margin of the address bar. the curved arrow - same as it ever was....
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My Art, Your Pleasure

 

[noirdesir]

You obviously don't write / debug code.

If you write code, you have your hands on the keyboard anyway, what is then wrong with cmd-R, cmd-., cmd-[ and cmd-]?

No need for absolutes. All is needed is to give people options when you decide to make changes especially since is is possible as shown in the beta version.

But if you always give people options whenever you change something you will end up with an ever rising set of settings which at some point inevitable will lead to clutter. I am not saying that options aren't sometimes the right solution, but that saying that 'there is no reason why they could not have made this an option' is disingenuous (not least since it is an absolute).

 

[Dayo]

... I switched to Firefox

--
http://dakanji.com

'Of what use is a philosopher who doesn't hurt anyone's feelings?'
Diogenes the Cynic, 300 BC.

KenRockwell Supporter

 

[noirdesir]

... I switched to Firefox

I actually do not use Safari either, there is nothing I really dislike in it. I just like the look and feel of Camino better (plus there is some sentimental attachment to the whole Mozilla project).

 

[noirdesir]

But I almost always have my mouse cursor on the left side of the screen. That's where almost all menus are (have a look at the dpreview menu above) and so moving it all the way over right again is not a intuitive thing for a reload.

If you really look at it, one really does not use these navigation tools in the left menus that often. Most navigation is done via links which sit in context. In a forum like this, you navigate & post not via this menu. I go to a different forum on this site for example, via cmd-L, F, arrow down, enter. If you go to a different website, you do this via links, bookmarks, the location field, a newsreader. You don't google via a menu on the left (the Google search box on Google's homepage is right in the center). Incidentally, I find that a lot of websites have the interesting links in a box on the right side or along the top.

 

[Robert Peters]

at the right margin of the address bar. the curved arrow - same as it ever was....
--
My Art, Your Pleasure

Nope. The Reload icon has been on the left side for quite a few years.

 

[Robert Peters]

The Apple Wizards simply made another bad design decision. All other 'buttons' are on the left side of the URL: Back, Forward, Close, Minimize, Maximize. PLacing the Reload control on the right side is the result of a bad design decision.

Ah, if that were the only problem with safari.

 

[funnelwebmaster]

well, can't vouch for where it has been, but where it is right now is is exactly where i said it is - on the right margin of the address bar. i'm staring at it right now.

at the right margin of the address bar. the curved arrow - same as it ever was....
--
My Art, Your Pleasure

Nope. The Reload icon has been on the left side for quite a few years.

--
My Art, Your Pleasure

 

[Robert Peters]

Well, "same as it ever was...." covers a lot of time and is an incorrect statement.

 

[noirdesir]

Well, "same as it ever was...." covers a lot of time and is an incorrect statement.

The difference between right and left is certainly smaller than the difference between being there at all or not being there. And the orignal post claimed that it was completely gone.

 

[rattymouse]

The Apple Wizards simply made another bad design decision. All other 'buttons' are on the left side of the URL: Back, Forward, Close, Minimize, Maximize. PLacing the Reload control on the right side is the result of a bad design decision.

Ah, if that were the only problem with safari.

I'm was a very long time Safari user. This issue, along with a few others, finally pushed me over to Firefox. And I have to say, the transition isnt too bad. I am enjoying 3.5 very much. With the speed dial plugin, it does exactly what I want.

So long Safari. It was fun while it lasted.

 

[funnelwebmaster]

well said!

Well, "same as it ever was...." covers a lot of time and is an incorrect statement.

The difference between right and left is certainly smaller than the difference between being there at all or not being there. And the orignal post claimed that it was completely gone.

--
My Art, Your Pleasure

 

[webfrasse]

Seriously guy's! How hard is it to learn something new or something a little different.

I guess you're the pathetic type that always goes, "it was better way back then..in the 50's when everyone was happy". Surprise, time doesn't wait for you guys...

Move on...seriously. Change, yes we can...

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Mikael

 

[deep7]

I knew society was getting lazier and lazier but this takes the cake. It's a two inch move with one finger on my track pad from the left to the right side of my menu bar. A bit more work with a mouse but, seriously, is that much exercise going to make your day longer???

There are legitimate things you could complain about, like the missing status bar or the impression that "top sites" seems to suck my internet connection updating pages for no useful reason (so I don't use it!). This reload issue cracks me up. Are our legs being pulled here?

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Don.

A Land Rover, a camera ... I'm happy!

 

[Michael Eckstein]

Much ado about hardly anything.
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http://photo.net/photos/Michael%20Eckstein
http://meckstein.com/home.html

 

[digicaman2]

No, your leg is not being pulled.

SMALL design changes do matter sometimes with actual real world consequences. Want to move the brake pedal over just a tad? Ask Audi what that small design decision with the Audi 5000 did for their North American Operations.

Design a musical instrument with a SLIGHTLY different feel and musicians will love it or hate it.

Design a putter with a tiny shift in the weight from toe to heel and serious golfers will love it or hate it.

Design a bicycle with a tiny change in the angles of the frames and many will love it and many will hate it.

What do all these things have in common? They ALL impact the USER INTERFACE of the product. Small changes matter and that is why companies sweat the details on stuff like this.

I really don't like not having the ability to put ALL of the navigation buttons for Safari on the LEFT. Why would Apple wish to remove my ability to do this? They have other buttons that I can customize and put there. Why not the "reload"?

Small changes matter in all consumer products. Safari is no different. Some will choose to switch to another browser because of it. I won't. I just loaded the "work around" button from further up the thread. Works great!

I knew society was getting lazier and lazier but this takes the cake. It's a two inch move with one finger on my track pad from the left to the right side of my menu bar. A bit more work with a mouse but, seriously, is that much exercise going to make your day longer???

There are legitimate things you could complain about, like the missing status bar or the impression that "top sites" seems to suck my internet connection updating pages for no useful reason (so I don't use it!). This reload issue cracks me up. Are our legs being pulled here?

--
Don.

A Land Rover, a camera ... I'm happy!

 

[Mike from Toronto]

I'm on Safari 3 right now.

On this DP Review site notice that the page and navigation favors the left side of the window. Safari put all the navigation for their browser to the left as well. Its clustered together with the way this site, and many others work. It's easy to make a selection this way. It is the logical thing to do.

Why would they change this with Safari 4?

Another person wrote about the hassle when using a tablet how far they have to make a movement to reach this new reload button that Apple moved. Again, why did they have to move it somewhere else away from the cluster of navigation they had previously?

As a user I do not think I should have to continually make adjustments like this for the sake of someone wanting to make a change that makes no logical sense when what worked previously was fine.

I am not going to excuse this, nor waste my time trying to find workarounds. It only encourages further "innovation" that ends up throwing your workflow and rhythm off for less gain in productivity due to larger unnecessary movements, and the cumulative petty aggravation that ends up taking your mind off working simply and effortlessly.

As an artist, there is an extremely fine line with the materials that you use to get the results you need. I've had manufactures of paper change the tooth of the paper slightly and rendered it useless for the effect that I was getting. Hey, they might be using a cheaper pulp, but it changed their paper in a way that moved backwards. If something works, leave it alone. Don't assume that we are all unaware of what software writers are doing to the usability of their products.

Change for the sake of change? Not if it is a disruption that serves no purpose.

Mike

 

[digicaman2]

Another example of how a SMALL change in the "User Interface" of a product (in this case artist paper) can have a big impact on the usability of the product.

As I have said here, I too am puzzled as to why the designers and coders of Safari 4 decided to:

1) remove my ability to customize the browser with that one button

2) move it to the other side of the screen (and away from all other navigation buttons

I just don't understand the logic of doing it. Thankfully the workaround posted above works great. Not as good as a nice big button but at least it is on the left hand side of the screen clustered with all the other navigation buttons.

As an artist, there is an extremely fine line with the materials that you use to get the results you need. I've had manufactures of paper change the tooth of the paper slightly and rendered it useless for the effect that I was getting. Hey, they might be using a cheaper pulp, but it changed their paper in a way that moved backwards. If something works, leave it alone. Don't assume that we are all unaware of what software writers are doing to the usability of their products.

Change for the sake of change? Not if it is a disruption that serves no purpose.

Mike