Any S1R mark 2 in the pipe?

[Paul Velgos]

I think it's a tough position, they don't want to have that gap in their lineup, but it's probably a small segment of Panasonic users that would buy such a camera. I think if it does come, it will be the last of the S1 and S1H replacements, as those would have a wider appeal to their audience.

Personally, I think if they came out with a Z9/A1 competitor (and undercut them on price) that would be the smartest move. They'd have an entry level model and a flagship model, and then they can start filling in the gaps. But perhaps they don't feel their AF is mature enough to put it in a flagship.

IMO a high res sensor camera doesn't need a top notch AF.

To shoot landscapes or merchandising there is not even need for AF.

I'd sadly surprised if Pana wouldn't go after the Sony A7R line. The S1R was superior in resolution than the Sony 42mpx sensor, would be great if Pana was repeating the shot against the Sony 62mpx sensor.

It doesn't need to be fast but it needs to be accurate, which I think it is enough now. I think the 47mp sensor was great, to be honest I think it's more of a brand perception problem. People think Panasonic = video so they disregard their stills features. They're wrong to do this, but I think Panasonic is facing the question of whether to try and win these people over, or admit defeat and just lean into video. I just don't think the S1R is high on their priority list right now. I never saw any sales figures on the S1R, but I'm guessing the S1H and S1 crushed it. I do hope they update it though (albeit a slightly smaller body if I'm being honest).

One of the S1R’s problems was the price at system launch. a brand new mount system by a company known for leaning on video spec, with a small lens stable? would have been quite a risk to commit to, very little chance of someone “switching” into it.

However… today its a bit of a different story, there are far more lenses available, they have continued to develop (slowly), they have shown they can do a killer AF system like everyone else. They have not abandoned the design philosophy of high build quality, ergonomics, and user controls. I think it would be a much better sales story if they released an S5R or S1RM2. Particularly with the stream of bored pentax users, and frustrated canon customers looking for alternatives.

Yes I completely agree.

And, if they do create a high-resolution body, it should absolutely have the new AF system. While fast AF is strictly not needed for landscape, high-res bodies are also very useful for sports, wildlife, and even street photography (where cropping can be super valuable), all of which benefit from good AF-C. And while I do not think Panasonic will go after the pro sports market, plenty of us amateurs enjoy a good BIF shot (or video!), and it would be a missed opportunity if they did not provide a body capable of that.

My prediction, for what that is worth, is that the hi-resolution body will be in the form-factor of the S5II, not the S1R. As a landscape photographer, I'm certainly hoping for that.

Agree with the comments I don't think we'll see an actual S1RII. Maybe they'll consolidate bodies and have an S1HII that includes hi-res features. Or it'll be an S5R which would seem to be a logical cost effective move. They can drop the existing S1R sensor into an S5 to create a new camera with parts they mostly already have and possibly offer it at a reasonable price way lower than the A7RV.

I have two S1Rs and they are exceptional cameras. Way better for my needs in almost every way than my Sony A7RII and A7RIV. But I'm a traveling landscape/cityscape/beach photographer and everything with the S1 line is bigger, heaver, and more difficult to travel with and use onsite. Not just the bodies but the lenses, battery chargers, and bigger tripods required to support them.

I'd love a 60MP+ S5R and more compact light lenses. A Lumix or Sigma version of the Tamron 28-200mm slightly wider would be great. Ideally a 24-200mm.

Panasonic clearly is shifting direction to video so we may not see anything new hi-res.

 

[pdk42]

Well, I've pondered this a bit more and have another view (this sooth-saying is one way to avoid work isn't it?)...

- The S5ii is a mid-level model. They've made it in two flavours - one a true hybrid, the other a video-orientated model.

- So, let's say they do the same with the S1ii, the high-end model. We'll get a hybrid version, and a video version.

- It would be possible for the hybrid version to replace both the S1 and S1r by using a higher-res sensor (something in the 45-50Mp range), adding PDAF (obvs), improving the AF tracking algorithms, and speeding up the sensor readout with a stacked device. That way they could play properly in the action shooters space (against the A1 and Z9 etc) and keep the landscape shooters happy.

- There would then be an S1ii X that would be the video-orientated version and it would replace the S1h.

Maybe the S1ii will also be released as a Leica-branded varant with a lashing of Leicaness to justify the 2x price ticket.

Anyhow - all complete speculation of course!

 

[Tom Caldwell]

I doubt if they are going to rain on the S5ii parade - for a while at least.

 

[pdk42]

I doubt if they are going to rain on the S5ii parade - for a while at least.

Nah - people's memories are short. By the time summer (northern hemisphere) is over, we'll have all moved on and an S1ii launch is what we'll all be baying for!

 

[georgehudetz]

Well, I've pondered this a bit more and have another view (this sooth-saying is one way to avoid work isn't it?)...

- The S5ii is a mid-level model. They've made it in two flavours - one a true hybrid, the other a video-orientated model.

- So, let's say they do the same with the S1ii, the high-end model. We'll get a hybrid version, and a video version.

- It would be possible for the hybrid version to replace both the S1 and S1r by using a higher-res sensor (something in the 45-50Mp range), adding PDAF (obvs), improving the AF tracking algorithms, and speeding up the sensor readout with a stacked device. That way they could play properly in the action shooters space (against the A1 and Z9 etc) and keep the landscape shooters happy.

Yes, I could see this happening. It would be an amazing camera. However, first I hope they do something with a 45+ MP sensor that is price/feature competitive with the A7RV. I'm not going to spend A1 money on my next body. Not serious enough with respect to wildlife for that. Also, Panny would have to step up with some pro-level tele zooms/primes for a top-tier body like that to be appealing to the pro sports/wildlife crowd. But it would be awesome if they could eventually bring the line to that level.

- There would then be an S1ii X that would be the video-orientated version and it would replace the S1h.

Maybe the S1ii will also be released as a Leica-branded varant with a lashing of Leicaness to justify the 2x price ticket.

Anyhow - all complete speculation of course!

 

[Jamajuel]

Well, if the body is going to be small, can an LVF with the same resolution as the current S1-series be fitted? This would be essential for landscape and product shots where focusing (AF or MF) is critical, and certainly if a higher-resolution sensor is fitted. Plus you only need to listen to Jordan Drake's comments in the videos to know how much he values the high-res LVF in the S1H. (IMHO, the low LVF resolution was the downside of an S5, and even in the MkII version has not matched the S1).

The smaller battery would be an issue with the higher res EVF and better LCD. It’s already not great vs competition on the S5ii

 

[novalaker]

Well, if the body is going to be small, can an LVF with the same resolution as the current S1-series be fitted? This would be essential for landscape and product shots where focusing (AF or MF) is critical, and certainly if a higher-resolution sensor is fitted. Plus you only need to listen to Jordan Drake's comments in the videos to know how much he values the high-res LVF in the S1H. (IMHO, the low LVF resolution was the downside of an S5, and even in the MkII version has not matched the S1).

The smaller battery would be an issue with the higher res EVF and better LCD. It’s already not great vs competition on the S5ii

The A7RV has an incredible EVF and a much smaller body than the S1R. I don't think its battery life is awful either. I think something in between the S5 and S1R size would be perfect.

 

[ActionPhotoPassion]

Earlier thoughts on the subject:

Lumix S1 MKII?: L-mount (Panasonic/Sigma/Leica) Talk Forum: Digital Photography Review (dpreview.com)

Well, the S1 has to evolve in a way now that the S5mkii has some of the features that differentiated the S1 from the S5. So I think a higher resolution, faster sensor (ideally stacked) would be the perfect choice. A do-it-all flagship.

 

[Mark Sloe]

Given that the S1 / S1R has been better than 'good enough' for many, the pricing problem would seem to be one for Leica. What could they do in order to justify a higher price?

1. Build quality? No, the S1-family is already excellent.
2. Longevity? For digital? Are you kidding? Both Lumix and Leica variants are likely to become bricks at the same time for reasons outside their control.
3. A different processor? But surely this would negate the idea of joint development.
4. Styling? You'll find advocates for, essentially, more or fewer buttons in both Leica and Lumix camps.
5. A sensor more suited for use with M-mount lenses? How big, really, is the market for this/ Having said that, this market may be willing to pay a premium...

that's like comparing seiko and rolex. both have the same function. one is a timepiece, the other a piece of jewelry. there is a market for both.

 

[Mark Sloe]

I think it's a tough position, they don't want to have that gap in their lineup, but it's probably a small segment of Panasonic users that would buy such a camera. I think if it does come, it will be the last of the S1 and S1H replacements, as those would have a wider appeal to their audience.

Personally, I think if they came out with a Z9/A1 competitor (and undercut them on price) that would be the smartest move. They'd have an entry level model and a flagship model, and then they can start filling in the gaps. But perhaps they don't feel their AF is mature enough to put it in a flagship.

IMO a high res sensor camera doesn't need a top notch AF.

To shoot landscapes or merchandising there is not even need for AF.

I'd sadly surprised if Pana wouldn't go after the Sony A7R line. The S1R was superior in resolution than the Sony 42mpx sensor, would be great if Pana was repeating the shot against the Sony 62mpx sensor.

It doesn't need to be fast but it needs to be accurate, which I think it is enough now. I think the 47mp sensor was great, to be honest I think it's more of a brand perception problem. People think Panasonic = video so they disregard their stills features. They're wrong to do this, but I think Panasonic is facing the question of whether to try and win these people over, or admit defeat and just lean into video. I just don't think the S1R is high on their priority list right now. I never saw any sales figures on the S1R, but I'm guessing the S1H and S1 crushed it. I do hope they update it though (albeit a slightly smaller body if I'm being honest).

One of the S1R’s problems was the price at system launch. a brand new mount system by a company known for leaning on video spec, with a small lens stable? would have been quite a risk to commit to, very little chance of someone “switching” into it.

However… today its a bit of a different story, there are far more lenses available, they have continued to develop (slowly), they have shown they can do a killer AF system like everyone else. They have not abandoned the design philosophy of high build quality, ergonomics, and user controls. I think it would be a much better sales story if they released an S5R or S1RM2. Particularly with the stream of bored pentax users, and frustrated canon customers looking for alternatives.

Yes I completely agree.

And, if they do create a high-resolution body, it should absolutely have the new AF system. While fast AF is strictly not needed for landscape, high-res bodies are also very useful for sports, wildlife, and even street photography (where cropping can be super valuable), all of which benefit from good AF-C. And while I do not think Panasonic will go after the pro sports market, plenty of us amateurs enjoy a good BIF shot (or video!), and it would be a missed opportunity if they did not provide a body capable of that.

My prediction, for what that is worth, is that the hi-resolution body will be in the form-factor of the S5II, not the S1R. As a landscape photographer, I'm certainly hoping for that.

absolutely, the PDAF system is basically a requirement now to compete. I think they maybe over engineered things a little with the S1 and S1R. They were just a bit to heavy for many to consider. but now they’ve shown they have the ability to make a high quality body without it weighing 1kg. just use that S5 type body but put in a high resolution sensor, high res EVF, and the expensive screen mechanism.

Add the S1* shutter sound, and it would be perfect.

i wouldn't mind the size and weight in the next gen bodies if they used it to further improve ibis and expanded in-camera computational features like handheld hi-res, live composite, live nd etc. i also wish they would open the bottom end of shutter speed well beyond 60s. at the same time, i wish they would keep s1r ii a photocentric camera with 2-axis tilt screen or something akin to z9.

 

[ActionPhotoPassion]

Well, if the body is going to be small, can an LVF with the same resolution as the current S1-series be fitted? This would be essential for landscape and product shots where focusing (AF or MF) is critical, and certainly if a higher-resolution sensor is fitted. Plus you only need to listen to Jordan Drake's comments in the videos to know how much he values the high-res LVF in the S1H. (IMHO, the low LVF resolution was the downside of an S5, and even in the MkII version has not matched the S1).

The smaller battery would be an issue with the higher res EVF and better LCD. It’s already not great vs competition on the S5ii

The A7RV has an incredible EVF and a much smaller body than the S1R. I don't think its battery life is awful either. I think something in between the S5 and S1R size would be perfect.

 

[nameless0ne]

I doubt that there'll be a new hi-res camera with the Lumix name on it. A new Leica SL is likely, but of course that'll be Leica money. Best buy an S1r now !

 

[georgehudetz]

I think it's a tough position, they don't want to have that gap in their lineup, but it's probably a small segment of Panasonic users that would buy such a camera. I think if it does come, it will be the last of the S1 and S1H replacements, as those would have a wider appeal to their audience.

Personally, I think if they came out with a Z9/A1 competitor (and undercut them on price) that would be the smartest move. They'd have an entry level model and a flagship model, and then they can start filling in the gaps. But perhaps they don't feel their AF is mature enough to put it in a flagship.

IMO a high res sensor camera doesn't need a top notch AF.

To shoot landscapes or merchandising there is not even need for AF.

I'd sadly surprised if Pana wouldn't go after the Sony A7R line. The S1R was superior in resolution than the Sony 42mpx sensor, would be great if Pana was repeating the shot against the Sony 62mpx sensor.

It doesn't need to be fast but it needs to be accurate, which I think it is enough now. I think the 47mp sensor was great, to be honest I think it's more of a brand perception problem. People think Panasonic = video so they disregard their stills features. They're wrong to do this, but I think Panasonic is facing the question of whether to try and win these people over, or admit defeat and just lean into video. I just don't think the S1R is high on their priority list right now. I never saw any sales figures on the S1R, but I'm guessing the S1H and S1 crushed it. I do hope they update it though (albeit a slightly smaller body if I'm being honest).

One of the S1R’s problems was the price at system launch. a brand new mount system by a company known for leaning on video spec, with a small lens stable? would have been quite a risk to commit to, very little chance of someone “switching” into it.

However… today its a bit of a different story, there are far more lenses available, they have continued to develop (slowly), they have shown they can do a killer AF system like everyone else. They have not abandoned the design philosophy of high build quality, ergonomics, and user controls. I think it would be a much better sales story if they released an S5R or S1RM2. Particularly with the stream of bored pentax users, and frustrated canon customers looking for alternatives.

Yes I completely agree.

And, if they do create a high-resolution body, it should absolutely have the new AF system. While fast AF is strictly not needed for landscape, high-res bodies are also very useful for sports, wildlife, and even street photography (where cropping can be super valuable), all of which benefit from good AF-C. And while I do not think Panasonic will go after the pro sports market, plenty of us amateurs enjoy a good BIF shot (or video!), and it would be a missed opportunity if they did not provide a body capable of that.

My prediction, for what that is worth, is that the hi-resolution body will be in the form-factor of the S5II, not the S1R. As a landscape photographer, I'm certainly hoping for that.

absolutely, the PDAF system is basically a requirement now to compete. I think they maybe over engineered things a little with the S1 and S1R. They were just a bit to heavy for many to consider. but now they’ve shown they have the ability to make a high quality body without it weighing 1kg. just use that S5 type body but put in a high resolution sensor, high res EVF, and the expensive screen mechanism.

Add the S1* shutter sound, and it would be perfect.

i wouldn't mind the size and weight in the next gen bodies if they used it to further improve ibis and expanded in-camera computational features like handheld hi-res, live composite, live nd etc. i also wish they would open the bottom end of shutter speed well beyond 60s. at the same time, i wish they would keep s1r ii a photocentric camera with 2-axis tilt screen or something akin to z9.

100%, but I would prefer to keep the weight down.

60 seconds is just lame.

 

[Jamajuel]

Well, if the body is going to be small, can an LVF with the same resolution as the current S1-series be fitted? This would be essential for landscape and product shots where focusing (AF or MF) is critical, and certainly if a higher-resolution sensor is fitted. Plus you only need to listen to Jordan Drake's comments in the videos to know how much he values the high-res LVF in the S1H. (IMHO, the low LVF resolution was the downside of an S5, and even in the MkII version has not matched the S1).

The smaller battery would be an issue with the higher res EVF and better LCD. It’s already not great vs competition on the S5ii

The A7RV has an incredible EVF and a much smaller body than the S1R. I don't think its battery life is awful either. I think something in between the S5 and S1R size would be perfect.

But it has a much worse LCD and IBIS...

 

[ActionPhotoPassion]

Well, if the body is going to be small, can an LVF with the same resolution as the current S1-series be fitted? This would be essential for landscape and product shots where focusing (AF or MF) is critical, and certainly if a higher-resolution sensor is fitted. Plus you only need to listen to Jordan Drake's comments in the videos to know how much he values the high-res LVF in the S1H. (IMHO, the low LVF resolution was the downside of an S5, and even in the MkII version has not matched the S1).

The smaller battery would be an issue with the higher res EVF and better LCD. It’s already not great vs competition on the S5ii

The A7RV has an incredible EVF and a much smaller body than the S1R. I don't think its battery life is awful either. I think something in between the S5 and S1R size would be perfect.

But it has a much worse LCD and IBIS...

LCD screens have always been amongst the worst for whatever Sony cameras. Sony might think that the EVF is sufficient... Which actually in the field depends of the situation

 

[Jamajuel]

Well, if the body is going to be small, can an LVF with the same resolution as the current S1-series be fitted? This would be essential for landscape and product shots where focusing (AF or MF) is critical, and certainly if a higher-resolution sensor is fitted. Plus you only need to listen to Jordan Drake's comments in the videos to know how much he values the high-res LVF in the S1H. (IMHO, the low LVF resolution was the downside of an S5, and even in the MkII version has not matched the S1).

The smaller battery would be an issue with the higher res EVF and better LCD. It’s already not great vs competition on the S5ii

The A7RV has an incredible EVF and a much smaller body than the S1R. I don't think its battery life is awful either. I think something in between the S5 and S1R size would be perfect.

But it has a much worse LCD and IBIS...

LCD screens have always been amongst the worst for whatever Sony cameras. Sony might think that the EVF is sufficient... Which actually in the field depends of the situation

Well, battery life is not magic. If you look at the capacity, then they both have very similar batteries:

• A74 battery: 2280 mAh
• S5ii battery: 2200 mAh

So if the Sony takes so many more shots or longer video (does it actually in video??), it must consume less.

Displays and EVF are huge battery drainers. EVF resolution doesn't do much I think, I would assume it's more the size, brightness and frame rate.

Then there is also the CPU, which might be more powerful on the S5. Whether that is because their SW is less efficient or because they have more headroom... who knows.

In any case, it tells me that if you want to put better IBIS, better brighter displays, faster processor etc. into an S5ii body, you will consume more, get less battery life. Not sure I'd want that.

I actually don't mind the SIZE of the S1. I mind the weight much more! So I'd be happy if they focus more on slimming down the weight closer to the S5ii rather than size. Grip could be better scupted too tbh (I wish everyone would just copy the Olympus OM-1 grip...)

 

[no reflex]

I doubt if they are going to rain on the S5ii parade - for a while at least.

Nah - people's memories are short. By the time summer (northern hemisphere) is over, we'll have all moved on and an S1ii launch is what we'll all be baying for!

 

[Thomas Mottl]

I doubt if there will be any succesor of the S1R.

Panasonic stopped releasing Pro lenses years ago.

They canceled the Pro Service in Europe.

Looking at the Firmware updates, there is also not much love for the S1R.

Before a new S1RII there will be a S1H II I think.

People want small cameras with small light lenses.

 

[no reflex]

…

People want small cameras with small light lenses.

Well … like the famous Henry Ford quote: „If I had ask the people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses.“

The fact that Sony is very successful with smaller camera bodys, doesn‘t mean, that there can‘t be a totally different solution.

In the end it is the usability of the system as a whole that counts. The S1H, the biggest of the 3 S1 versions, was the most successful one.

 

[Jamajuel]

I doubt if there will be any succesor of the S1R.

Panasonic stopped releasing Pro lenses years ago.

They canceled the Pro Service in Europe.

Looking at the Firmware updates, there is also not much love for the S1R.

Before a new S1RII there will be a S1H II I think.

People want small cameras with small light lenses.

Well, it's interesting with the Pro lenses. It's unclear whether they thought there was no market for it of simply waited to first have bodies.

What's clear is that they prioritized first their line of affordable. video-friendly f1.8 primes. This was probably also very smart, there is a lot of chatter about that in all S5ii video about how smart those are and good quality for the price (no breathing, same form factor, same filter threads, weather sealed, light...). Their existing pro zooms cover everything most film makers would need from 16-200mm.

I am really curious as well to see whether they will release anything beyond low to mid-range zooms or very video-centric lenses. My guess would be it's not very high priority for them. All that could change of course if the new bodies sell really well, because that would immediately increase demand for such lenses again.

As for S1R: just for 8k alone, they will need to have a higher res body. So whatever "S1" category camera they will release it will surely have more resolution.